My M was never bad - my WH told me everyday he loved me, always showed affection & our sex life was always great. The only negative was financially we are & were on shaky ground. Granted the OW was always in my home scatily clad & always stroked his ego (while putting me down) & I know he felt like her White Knight saving her - so I could see where he was attracted to her.

But if now he says she isn't half the woman I am and I have done all the right things - why do I feel so lonely. He will not touch me now - he can barely kiss me - just pecks - only says I love you when I tell him. Will not discuss A or release any passwords to his accounts, just says eventually he will. He says he's happy w/ me - but he wants to pretend everything is fine & I feel like a stranger.

This ride has been going on for 13 months & I've done the Plan A to a point where I think I actually enabled this A. Am I a doormat? I have done so much to improve myself & my MIL asked him if he thought he could get better than me when he already had the best - my WHOLE M was me Plan Aing - I think I lost my identity being married.

I think he thought he was trapped in M w/ wife & D and OW was single & needy - no commitments. I have been very quiet the past few days - not my usual chatty self - I have been thinking about moving on ending all this pain - he keeps asking am I all right - what do I say - of course not, you want to lie, cheat & hurt me so much then you want me to talk you back & you want to pretend nothing happened - but all I really say is that I just have a sinus headache (which I do). Try so hard not to LB.

My mother asked today if all this loneliness & pain was worth it? She doesn't know I cry alot - I told her I was doing fine but my Sister just left after a week stay & she knows how said I am. She told me I was a bigger person than she was because I am still an "awesome, loving" wife & I'm not looking for revenge.

But when is enough enough? I want my H back - but I don't see it happening - I never have been so lonely w/ someone right next to me.

You have to find yourself that is for sure.

I am reading abook on the advice of my counselor called rebuilding. It is really originally positioned as a divorce recovery book, but it really is "How do I heal when someone I love really, really, hurt me." And I think the whole book eventually points to the fact that you have to be a whole, real you for you to ever have a healthy relationship. In fact, the author makes an analogy that relationships are like a bridge. On one side, is one span, on the other side, another span, and in between is highway. You and your spouse are the spans. And the bottom line is, if one of those spans is shaky, crumbling, non-existant...can you really have the bridge in between.

I can totally relate to how this A situation seems to take your idenitity away. I was happy to be a wife and a mother. In fact, my personal relationships kinda poured over into my professional identity as well, because I was a person who was more confident, willing to take more risks, do more, achieve more, because I KNEW that my home base, my family, was unshakable. And when that came tumbling down...I WAS SCARED AS HELL.

I have written to you before about how it is a serious concern that he will not give you access to his accounts. Do you want to live this way? NOOOO...you are even considering ending your M now, and you have not even broached the subject again more assertively about having access.

I would start to really implement the theologies of this site.

1.) The policy of joint agreement. Neither one of you does anything without the agreement of the other...period. And since there has been a breach in the M, this really has to be followed. Nothing your H does should be happening without your knowledge AND agreement.

2.) The policy of radical honesty. You both need to be radically honest about what is going on. And by you not telling him right now, in a calm and respectful way, that you are unhappy, needs are not being met, you are breaking that. And by him not giving you RADICAL access to every single thing you want access to, he is breaking that. And to be honest, I would not be surprised if he is still knee deep in it.

After D-day, my WH stayed in the house for 6+ months. During that time...I Plan A'ed my butt off...never committing LBs, doing things for him, giving him respect and admiration (one of his top ENs), providing a lot of domestic support, etc. And during that time, I celebrated Christmas, my b-day, and our anniversary. And while he was not very physically involved with me (sex), he would say I love you (only in response to me when I would say it to him), he would cuddle one day, and then tell me to back off the next, he would be friendly, and engaged and animated one day, and moody, and closed off, and a total jerk the next. He bought me Christmas gifts, b-day gifts, came home with long stemmed roses for my anniversary. And all the while, I was just plan A'ing away.

And you know what I found out?

Yep. You guessed it. He was talking to the OW on an almost daily basis. The A had not ended...he was just having his cake and eating it too. And my WH was acting as if the A never happened, and we could just pick up where we left off, with the one major exception that I would be bustin it to meet all his needs, and he would do nothing to meet mine. And he was not interested in meeting mine, because he was not really interested in comitting to the repair of our M, because he was still involved in the A.

So...take that for what it is worth. These are all things to be concerned about. I would not be at all suprised if he is still VERY actively involved with the OW, and going through the motions at home...you do deserve more.

But I think, with the proper actions, you could have more...with him.

I could not agree with Chistry more. It seems like your H is not willing to put the affair behind him and move on his life with you. He must fully commit to you and be totally honest. Otherwise you will continue to live a sham, regardless of whether he is continuing in the affair now or not.

Christy,

Your Plan A time sounded just like mine with WH soaking up all the attention and calling,e-mailing homewrecker each day until resentment got the better of me.

Betrayed,

If your WH will not give you the passwords to his accounts and is treating you more like a friend/roommate than a W then I would agree that the A is probably still ongoing.You've done an admirable job at Plan A I'm sure but WAY TOO long I'm afraid.Your WH is a big fence sitter right now and no wonder he wants to pretend everything is fine.Actually it is for him,W here at home with him meeting EN's and homewrecker on the side,two women fulfilling needs.What man wouldn't be all smiles?

I think you should start seriously considering Plan B.

O

Christy,

I just took a long hot shower - thought this would help w/ my depression. Just allowed me to cry alone. Whenever I approach the subject he tells me he knows he hurt me, doesn't want her, never saw us divorced - all opposite of what he said in the middle of A. OW supposedly has a boyfriend (?) don't really care about her - not worth my energy.

My WH has always avoided conflict - he is very slow in telling what he wants/needs etc. He has been depressed about our financial situation so I know that is an important EN. But how can I leave & go 3000 miles away from him to work & help the cash flow if I do not trust him??? All things I have told him.

I have been very honest w/ him regarding me, my ENs, etc - my sister was here - left yesterday - did not want to start w/ her here. She thinks that we are crazy - that the love is obvious - but it was always that way - everyone is so confused because all of this is so out of character for him. He is changing back - but there are still so many secrets. I think him giving up access to his accounts in his mind is me being a control freak or me obviously proving I don't trust him. Maybe it's a control issue?? I don't know. He left the Cedit Card bill on the table yesterday so maybe I'll see the cell soon?

How much are we supposed to take as the BS??? How do I get thru to his thick head?

Well I guess I don't have to worry about moving on - he decided it for us. Doesn't want to be married to me - loves me but will never love me the way I want to be loved. Says he loves being w/ me - but he's tried to love me but can't. He blames me for us being here- broke all the time. He has had no contact w/ OW - he says I warned him what she was all about - he says he finally saw her for what she really was - did call her before but not now (?).

So I guess I have been the fool and believed in us. I believed all his lies, I believed in him - and here I sit crying so hard my 3 yr old daughter is rubbing my back saying it's alright Mommy, Daddy will be back soon.

I have a question.
Is this the 1st time your WH has left?

I don't know your whole story....but man if there ever was another WH that acted like my FWH....it would be your WH.

Just this one post sounded so much like my story.....everything your WH has said...mine has said also...and we are in Recovery now...going on 3 years.

My Wh never left - just said all this Bull*hit and ran out to the gym. Sat here & cried like a fool - you think that after all this he wouldn't get to me like this. I had to do something and I made his lunch for tomorrow. It kept my mind off stuff - but now I am back here crying.

I see.

Well...my FWH did leave...3 times...the last time he had me convinced that it had nothing to do with the OW....and it did as I found out about 2 weeks later.

I'm seeing red flags everywhere in your WH's convesation.

He loves you....but can't love you the way you want to be loved....but then he's tried to love you and can't. He's contradicting himself.

Him saying that you warned him about what the OW was about....he was calling her but isn't now.
That doesn't fly with me....my FWH tried that on me....tried to make me think that I had helped him see her for what she was and all that....trying to soothe me by telling me something he thought I wanted to hear.

I think it's time for you to think about YOU and your little girl. It's really hard to detach yourself while he is still there....but it's possible.

As for when to quit.
That is completely up to you. When you feel like you have put everything you can into making it work and you could walk away feeling okay about it...then it's your call.

I reached my quitting point and finally started moving on...about 14 months into it. My H was still involved with the OW at that point and I didn't care anymore....got tired of going around in circles.

That's also about the time my FWH started coming around. Luckily we caught each other at the right time...or we'd be divorced right now...with me being the one to serve him the papers.

<small>[ April 28, 2004, 11:07 PM: Message edited by: Miss Priss ]</small>

Miss Priss,
Here's my story ( Ididn't know how to attach previous topic)

I have been with my cheating husband for almost 12 yrs, married almost 6yrs w/ a 3yr old daughter. Last March, my H told me he loved me but not "in" love w/me. He had been talking to my closest friend and she at the time said we should go to a MC because we where the perfect couple. 3 wks later she was sleeping w/him. H said it was an accident-just happened & he was sorry. We working on things to recover or so I thought. I found out in July when he was in AZ for work that she was going to meet him out there. She called me & told me he was calling in sick "many, many" times and sleeping w/ her - she had pleasure in hurting me (He worked 3rd Shift). He drove over 6 hrs to beg me to stay w/ him - siad things like he saw what he was going to lose and the grass was definitely not greener on the other side. It was everything I had been waiting to hear. Things were good for the next few months until I found receipts proving that nothing had stopped. Again he said it was nothing- I again fell for the lies. In Nov, he switched to 1st shift to work on us. He called at the end of shift 1 day to say he would be home soon - showed up 10hrs later. He went to her house - she told him she did not respect him & did not want to be the OW. He came home & said she did not want him & he didn't deserve me - he would be alone. We stayed up that night late & cried, fought & I decided to take a vacation back east to visit w/ my family - for my own sanity. While I was away - I tried avoiding his calls( more than 10+ a day) but he was persistant. While away - I believe he slept over her house - he denies but a friend called to say he never came home 1 night. Hmmmm. When I came back home he said he thought we could work it out together - be a family. Then Christmas Eve he went to buy my present & landed at her house - Again he lied saying he was just driving - but of course the truth comes out later. She called me a few days later and called me a creepy *itch and I was riding a pity bus. The funny thing is that her boyfriend left her about 1 month before my hell began & I held her hand & was there for her. She was drinking 2 bottles of wine a day & still is. I have been completely alone dealing w/ this and did not drink my self silly - so how was I riding a pity bus??? I was taking care of my daughter and dealing w/ lies, betrayals from 2 people and still doing everything for my H. After the holidays where over I discover she was still calling and she sent him a b-day card in February telling him to leave me - that he deserved better. My H tells me that he does love me and wants to work it out, he claims he does not love her - its me he wants - that how could he leave me for someone like her. He thinks that he was depressed over our making good money, but we had nothing to show for it and were living check to check - sometimes charging to pay bills. He said OW was there putting ideas in his head, stroking his ego, etc. He feels he made so many mistakes for what?? He says he'll move out of CA to make a new start and relieve some of my anxiety and some of the financial burden of So. CA. Yet he won't show me his cell phone bill - What am I going to do? I want my marriage to work - but how do I know if he has stopped taking to her finally - H b-day was only last month! I have lost over 50 lbs this past year, I barely sleep and my daughter's whole 2nd yr I spent crying. Am I being a fool still? I went to a C for a few sessions earlier this yr - she was pretty impressed w/ the fact that I knew I was partially responsible fot my H looking else where for ENs. But what about mine??? My H says he is feeling too guilty to sleep w/me - he's embarrased about what he has done. He also contracted HPV from OW - so of course I have it now. What am I going to do - sometimes I think I should move on & find someone who'll love me and we won't have this baggage to work on!! But I love him so much.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Okay....first thing first.

If your H has nothing to hide...then he will hide nothing.

Losing weight...been there...actually was put in the hospital for losing too much too fast.

It's time for you focus on YOU...and your little girl.

I've been through all this...though the OW wasn't someone I knew. The going back and forth...waaayyy too many times.

If it all possible let your H be for a while.
Don't start any conversations that have to do with saving your marriage...or the OW.

One thing you may mention to him though....is that it's like you have a 500 peice puzzle and he has taken 300 peices and won't let you look at the picture....so you can't put the puzzle together....and it's important that the peices are all there...and that they fit properly.

That is why you need him to open up....for him and for you.

One thing that is going for you though....he hasn't left through all of this....that has to say something. Financial trouble or not...if he didn't want to be there...he wouldn't be.

Believe me I know that to be true....money trouble won't keep him there...it didn't keep mine with me...and we were in deep before the A ever started.

Before he went to the gym - he stated that he would stay in this limbo because he couldn't afford to leave. He said he talked over Divorce w/ a friend from work & was told he would be hurting bad financially w/ a D. So I asked if that was the only reason to stay w/ me & he said he had no choice. I told him that was not fair to either one of us & I reminded him of the things he has been saying over the past few weeks about loving me & being happy - he said just lies. Told him I would ask my mother for money to Divorce if that was what he wanted & he said start packing.

So what can I do now?

Your WH hasn't had the chance to miss you. Maybe that is something he needs to do....have a chance to miss you.

It doesn't have to end in divorce....maybe a seperation for a while...to see how things pan out.

I really don't think that your WH can say that he's done EVERYTHING he can to save your marriage....he contradicts himself too much.

Talking to others about divorce is normal....my H did....went so far as actually seeing a lawyer and getting some paperwork. I went as far as suing him for child support....as abandonment....we actually had to go to court for it AFTER we Recovered...to have it reversed.

If YOU don't want a divorce....then don't make it easy for him to get one.
I'm not saying to tell him you'll take everything and all that....I'm saying to ask for the funds from someone for something that you don't want. If he wants it...he'll find a way to get it on his own.

Hope he has also considered that being a part time dad sucks.

Would he not consider just a legal seperation at this point?

If we get a divorce or even a legal separtion - I'll leave California & go back to Massachusetts. He knows that & he is aware that he'll only see his Daughter when he visits. (We are both from the same town - we are here for his job that he hates)

He is the product of Divorce & has always longed for a relationship w/ his Dad. His Dad is the most selfish man I have ever met - he truly only cares about himself. MY WH thinks he is worse that his Dad - but there is NO comparison. But yet he wants this for his daughter. She is Daddy's girl. I don't want to make this easy for him, but if he is not happy w/ me and I truly want him to be happy - then shouldn't I leave?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He is the product of Divorce & has always longed for a relationship w/ his Dad. His Dad is the most selfish man I have ever met - he truly only cares about himself. MY WH thinks he is worse that his Dad - but there is NO comparison. But yet he wants this for his daughter. She is Daddy's girl. I don't want to make this easy for him, but if he is not happy w/ me and I truly want him to be happy - then shouldn't I leave? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do you want to leave?
If the answer is no...then don't.

You're putting too much focus on him and what he wants. You are not going to be able to fill his needs right now..he's not going to let you...so trying is like running yourself into a brick wall over and over for no reason and in the end...you are going to feel like you really have run yourself into a brick wall.

NOBODY can tell you when to call it quits....you are the only one that can make that decision.

He wants this divorce for his daughter? I'm not sure there is anything that can justify that statement.

I'm going on a gut feeling...and this is my feeling alone....that the OW is still in the picture and he's doing whatever he can to try to convince you that she isn't.

That would account for all the contradictions.

Either that...or he's been beemed up to the "Mother Ship" and been replaced by an alien....which I don't think is likely.

If your ready to end it....end it.
I can't tell you whether to stay or go.

If you want it...fight for it....until you feel you can't anymore.

I went through this with my FWH 4 times....it was always the same. I got tired of fighting....gave up....and my FWH started fighting for me.

Truth is....those "in love" feeling never go away...they are just buried with heeps of emotions that are directed elsewhere.

Now...I could be wrong....he may not be having contact with the OW.....withdrawl kinda does the same thing to the WS.....but still....if he has nothing to hide then he will hide nothing.

Well, everyone was right he is in contact w/ OW. This morning I looked at his cell phone & she left a text message - "found it under the bed!" We had a really bad argument - told me he hated me, was not attracted to me, etc. Threw my rings away, torn up wedding pics - told me to "grow some balls & leave". I followed him to the door - asked is this how he wants to start his day - told me again I hate you - I actually slapped him! What a fool - he picked me up, threw me against the wall, I fell & then he kicked me when I was down. Then he left - our daughter saw the whole thing. Well, needless to say - he had to come back & take me to the emergency room. Dislocated shoulder - I'm on pain pills - typing w/one hand. I guess I deserved it - I am not an aggressive person - I do not like violence nor does my WH - what are we turning into????????

Scary! My H broke my arm on December 17 when I was threatening to call this woman whom he said was calling him and it would be rude of him to hang up. $15,000 in medical bills. 3 surgeries. Nearly 6 months in a cast or splint.

One thing I did not do that I wish I had was file a restraining order. This is a civil matter not a criminal matter. Please do look into it.

It makes it clear that HE is the problem not you. At the time, I didn't think he was having an A but was recovering from an EA.

Good luck... but get him out of the house so that you stay alive to take care of that little girl.

I think I started it by slapping him - I know it was wrong on my part. I'm not condoning his actions but I think after I confronted him he may have felt backed into a corner - WH was extremely angry - I should have waited tll he cooled down. I was crying when I went to the door - I am so drained - I thought I could at least say have a good day & can we talk when you get home - Stupid me.

I can't file a restraining order - he'll lose his job. As much as he hurt me - I am not blameless. My Mom has been worried I would land in hospital because of weight loss or mental breakdown. But I am stronger now than when this first began - I have taken steps to improve myself, I have just have been having a tough few weeks w/ triggers, etc - this month has been anniv of when my hell began.

You know what concerns me most about your last 2 posts?

You saying that you deserved it.

NOBODY deserves to be hit. That also goes for you slapping your H...shouldn't have happened....but you saying that you deserved to be thrown against the wall and kicked when you were down because you slapped him. Two wrongs don't make a right....you and your H both know that.

Your WH is acting like a classic WS....I've heard everything you are hearing.
I wasn't worth trying for...he hated me...couldn't stand the sight of me.
We got into only one very heated argument where I was in my H's face and this and that....but he never laid a hand on me.

He said ....grow some balls and leave huh?
Classic way of trying to get you to be the one to end it.....because he doesn't really want to. Been there too.
My FWH told me to go find a boyfriend.....and that I was living in a fantasy world thinking that we may ever be together again....turns out...he was the one in fantasy land.

Told you he hated you huh?
He doesn't hate you....he hates the fact that you confronted him and found out there is still contact. He just needs someone to blame but himself....and of course....that falls on the BS. CLASSIC!

I don't know what point you are at.....but even if you still live in the same house. You need to distance yourself from him.
Focus on you....make him and the OW NONE of your business for your sake...and for the sake of your daughter.

You aren't going to do anyone any good if you haven't got yourself fixed first.
Fix you....and then you can focus on what else needs to be fixed.

I know I defintely did not deserve it - I am embarrassed by my actions - actually appalled. We both have behaved rather badly.

We had a long talk yesterday - I told him that continued contact w/ her was still cheating on me whether he was still sleeping w/ her or not - told him that he was not fair to anyone involved in this situation & I had given up and I wanted out. I deserved to be happy and at this time of my life I was lonely & depressed at what we had become - abusers.

He finally agreed that it was wrong to continue contact - it was still cheating & would stop. We'll see - but I have stopped all talk about R & us and am trying to mend. In alot of pain - WH is actually trying very hard to take of me - which is nice for a change. Suppose it's the guilt.

Can you do a Plan B & still live in the same house? I was thinking of moving all his stuff out of our room into another bedroom & stopping all of my "wifely" duties - no clean laundry, no lunches, no dinner, etc. We can not afford to live separetly.

By the way - I think he glossed over "my I give up" comment - talking about our future. I don't partake in those comments or discussions any longer.