Hello All. Got W on with SH after she missed last weeks call. We were never on the phone together, her first then me. He told her that I am not the only one that needs to be trying to make changes. She was positive about my changes and asked him if we were done counseling yet. She hates the fact that we're still dragging this on. In her head I know she thinks it's simply about me getting over ONS with no possible thought that a man could be hurt by an EA. SH told me she will never understand the pain she has caused and asked me if it was important. I told him it wasn't I just wanted a W that was in love with me. He told her if we quit now all the positive changes would dissappear and we'd slip back to our old ways. For my part he applauded my efforts and confirmed that I got a good report card this week. Re-inforced the need for domestic support.
W went to family doc and got a prescription for anti depressants. This relentless and consistent pressure is surely taking a toll. I have noticed that for a while. I asked SH about that and he said that is the goal. To make this so heavy she can't ignore it. But we do it brick by brick or she'll run otherwise. Not out the door, but from counseling. While we are doing well I just don't want to leave the job half finished. Contact is still every week but the phone calls have lessened. She still is diligent about deleting them which doesn't fool me any. But overall I was encouraged that SH was encouraged. My main goal is the fast approaching summer party's. I will absolutely not be in any of her teams company again but I can't say that to her. He told me just sidestep each event as it comes up. So while some would say how can you let her go to a party alone with OM present I would simply respond that it is more painful to attend than not to. Welcome everyones two cents.

WOE

My 2cents. I can relate to your question as my WW's OM is a co-worker. I struggled with whether or not to attend her company functions with her. I finally decided to attend every function possible where both of them might attend. Whether is was stubbornness or some sort of macho thing I don't know. The several reasons that I came up with were 1) If I didn't go I was letting HIM be in control of the situation 2) Insurance that the situation wouldn't turn into a rendezvous 3) As support for my wife and a show of solidarity 4) And simply for my amusement to make him WAY uncomfortable. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I have never been rude or confrontational with him which makes him even more nervous <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

These may not be the best of reasons or even good advice for your inner struggle..but they are the 2 cents of someone who can feel your struggle.

Good luck.

burtonzoo, thanks for the quick response. Yes it is one of them catch 22 situations. My problem is W is in recreational pool league with OM and spouses are invited to attend a couple of family events a few times a year. If I'm not welcome at the weekly bar league why play the fool a couple of times a year. I think it easier to not play the fool at all or 100% of the time. I'm not sure which I'm doing. But this is a lot more brutal than any of us would have ever imagined an A to be. Take care and I applaud your approach and class in handling the business functions. If you W is remorseful then you need to support her. It's not about the OM, it's about your family.

Unfortunately I am still praying for remorse..NC...ending the A, etc. I have been at it for way too long now(almost 5 years)but only found MB about 6-8 months ago. I have been lurking for a while and knew a bit of your story and the pool league deal. My WW also does not want to do NC because she doesn't want to leave her job of 12 years. She actually typed out a letter of resignation Sunday night but she was so angry about it I told her I didn't think that she should do it(I backed off). She made it very clear that she was only doing it because it was what I wanted and she felt that she was being forced. I told her that if that was how she felt then I didn't want her to resign that way. She has to do it because she thinks it's the right thing to do(hence the praying for remorse!). We had our first session with Jennifer a week ago Tuesday and our next this Friday. At this point my optimism is waining but I ain't quittin yet!!

<small>[ April 28, 2004, 07:24 PM: Message edited by: burtonzoo ]</small>

Buttonzoo, WOW. 5 years and counting. That re-affirms my feeling that this won't die by itself. I guess you have also learned that NC is the goal. Remorse may follow but it certainly won't preceed NC. Anyway you must have kids and quite a few years invested. Glad your counseling with Jennifer it gives you a plan and is very comforting. I can tell you if SH told me to move out tomorrow and Plan B, it would take me less than 10 minutes to pack. Wife has fought MC for so long and only after I agreed to IC for MY problems. But I finally got her into it and I won't quit till its done. It's this cake eater thing that just knaws away at you. They would never put up with this from us if the shoe was on the other foot. It's nice to meet you and I really think Jennifer can sober her up. Even if my W stops taking the calls with SH, she will know that I am going to continue and my actions will be as he instructs. When I used to get upset with the continued phone calls she would tell me I was upset because I forgot to take my blood pressure pills that day. Amazing this fog. But if you're not careful you start to fall into a codependent type fog. Hang in there and follow Jennifers plan. Win, lose or draw you'll know you did your best. Hang around.

I understand what you mean by packed and gone in 10!!! I am sooo close to done. I expect an automatic meat thermometer to pop out of my butt most any second now! Jennifer wants to wait a few more weeks before I take drastic measures like exposure around her office(OM is her boss and it would do damage to his career and involuntarily cost her her job. Jennifer suggests we give it a less destructive shot first and then go in hard later if necessary. It will be alot more successful if she can choose and execute NC on her own. I am just losing hope right now that that will happen.

Yes I have 2 DDs. They are also a reason to tread softly if possible. I think I figured out how to add the info you were asking to my profile.

All we can do is just keep hanging in there and fighting like hell for what we know is right.... A big part of the reason that I wouldn't give the POS OM the satisfaction of running me off from office gatherings!

<small>[ April 28, 2004, 10:55 PM: Message edited by: burtonzoo ]</small>

buttonzoo you have boostered my resolve and I thank you. It's supporting to see others fighting the same battle for so long. Here's something that I'm sure you already now. Even if you don't force W to quit the job, she will blame you anyway. It will always be your fault because you just couldn't get over it. You have to hope he leaves or something unusual happens etc. I know I'm not telling you anything here. I could never ask W to quit but have to sit back and wait for the team to dissolve which may be approaching. And if that happens and OM is out of her life she will think our problems our over. But that's when the recovering can just begin. I think it will take some years before they can reflect objectively on what they've done.

And you don't have to tell me about low down POS OM. Mine is a beaut. Has two illigitemate kids the exact same age with two different woman. Boasts 10 married woman under his belt and on and on and on. But I have to hear how he's trying to do the right thing and to give people a chance.

But on an up note I can tell you the balance of power is changing in my house. I think if you stick with Jennifer you will feel the same thing. You gain a quiet confidence by having an expert tell you that you're doing all the right things and that there will be an end in sight. One way or the other. Take care.

Wow, I'm reading both of your stories and I'm amazed by your endurance. My H began his EA with his office manager about one year ago, and it turned into a PA last summer. D-day began 1/8/04. The whole truth didn't come out for a month.

When I found out about the EA I told H if she stays and continues working for you than you have to leave. It is a small business and he was totally dependent on her. He fired her and she worked for another month so he could get someone else in there. A few weeks ago he told me he has a deep resentment that he was forced to fire her, although he said he's not angry at me. I just told him, "Did you really think I was going to put up with you working with the woman you were screwing for months?"

So I just want to praise you both again for sticking in there. I don't think I could Plan A for long if H was still seeing OW. Hnag in there! CV

CV55, that is the other side of the coin; resentment. I know that even when W's pool team collapses it will be my fault. Ridiculous but true and I know that Buttonzoo faces the same fate. No good deed goes unpunished. You get to a point where you start to get your strength back and see how ridiculous the situation has become. It takes time though as you are foolishly blinded by the love for your spouse. But it's not love as much as dependency. No good outcome it seems but for my part, I'll know I tried my best. Today W told me I'm too inside my head. I had to bite my tongue not to say "I'm glad I'm not inside yours". A very confusing place indeed. Take care.

Walking, when H first started the truth telling, which was "I have feelings for OW but we've never said anything", they were doing this bowling promotional thing together. It was at this bar OW hangs out at and there were teams. Sometimes H bowled alone, and sometimes she was with him. I immediately told him "No more bowling!" Well, you would have thought I was asking him to cut off his right arm. He made a committment. It cost $300 bucks to do this. It was supposed to go on for a few more months. What would poor OW think? Basically I told him "I don't give a SH**! You're telling me you have FEELINGS for another woman, and you're not bowling with her."

Maybe I'm just bad at the MB principles, but at some point self-respect has to enter the picture. I have been overall great to my H since this A was revealed. Every now and then I have major LBd, and just last night I gave him a dose of reality. The reality being that I'm not sure how much longer I will take the withdrawal without more encouragement from him. We ended up holding each other in bed, and cuddling this morning. This morning he told me he really thought I was going to dump him after our talk last night. He said I had a calm about me, plus I looked really good. I can tell it shook him up. I basically told him instead of just grieving over OW, maybe he needs to really picture his life without me. The woman he has been with for 26 yrs. Get that picture in his head. Get the picture of his boys probably not living in his house with him.

Sometimes, at least with my WS, his fog has been lifted when I let him know this W ain't gonna stick around forever. Just my experience. I would listen to the experts here. This whole process sucks. Divorce sucks, and getting to recovery sucks. I guess the hope is if we actually recover our Ms will be better. We can only hope! CV

CV, you're really good at this. I mean I applaud your balls out effort if I may say that. I often wonder if I could have saved myself two plus years of pain if I had the guts to stop it in its tracks. But I was paralyzed while it was happening. But like you my wife is noticing the change in me. We are NOT going to sweep this under the rug and go through the same thing 10 years from now. Of that I am sure. Thanks for responding and it's nice to see similar situations in a weird sort of way. But you're right divorce, kids, happy. So much to consider.

Walking, thanks for the compliment, but I really don't know if I'm "really good at this." If you have followed any of my whining, venting posts you know I have had my days of sobbing while typing on this site, and I have also wanted to plan B my H more than several times , even though he ended contact with the "B". I haven't had to deal with him actually continuing the A while living here. I don't think I could tolerate it like some folks do. But who knows? Nahhh! I know me. The boy would be gone! I think that would be the dealbreaker for me. An immediate Plan B.

You do what you have to do, and what you can tolerate. My h did not want to fire OW. Mostly because it put his business in terrible turmoil. I put up with her for one month which was rough enough. Lucky for her at that point I didn't know all the details, like they had been screwing 1 to 2 times a week. Anyway, I just knew there was no way we could stay together if H and OW were working together. When he told me about his resentment and being forced to fire her, I said "You had a choice. You could have chosen to keep her there and moved out of our house." Life is about choices. Let's face it, people in As want it all. They don't want to make choices. It will shake up their little bubble world.

OK, now I'm babbling. One more thing before I close here. Get the guilt for the pool team ending out of your head. Too darn bad! Your W had the A. My H last year was playing guitar at mass. Not our parish, but one we like a lot. Guess who joined that church last year? I wasn't going there regularly, but she was. How holy they both were! i'm actually laughing. Anyway H told me tonight the music director there really wants him to play again and he would like to also. I said, "Not if OW still attends that church." The H said, "Well, I wouldn't even see her." Me: "I don't care. Her joining that church makes me sick. And if she's there, you can't play there." I think us BSs have to have some rights. As you said, there is a lot of confusion in there fogged out peanut brains. Someone has to try to be the clear thinker. Sorry this was so long. CV

CV,

CV,
I have an advantage(sucky but true perspective) in that I was a WS about 12 years ago. Part of the current predicament is that we never recovered properly from my abduction. Where it is an advantage for me...I recognize the fog-speak because I have spoken it...plus I know that feelings can and do change and I know the difference between real ones and temporary ones. It helps me to get through this knowing what she is going through. I just wish she would wake up soon.

Burtonzoo, so tell me, how do you distinguish between real feelings and temperary ones? Most times I truly think my H would be miserable if he would have ended up with OW, even though he LOVED her. During my more vindictive times I almost wish I wouldn't have been so good at Plan Aing so he could have faced the reality with her, since they ended in the in-love stage. However, sometimes I get fogged out and wonder, maybe this was true love. Maybe he won't be able to really feel love for me again. So what do you think? I love picking the brain of a FWS. I can't do this too much with H now, especially because he is in that lovely withdrawal state. Your input is welcomed.

Walking, one more comment about what you said "I applaud your balls out effort." No offense taken at that comment. There have been times through this, like when I had my little talk with OW, that I thought, "Girl, you do have balls!" Odd, but true. I realize that is what scares my H about me. I'm generally not a yeller, but there is something about me that intimidates him. OW used to plead and beg him not to leave her whenever he tried to end the A. I haven't pleaded or begged once since I found out, and we've been together 26 yrs. I wonder if OW's appeal is that she is much weaker than I am. H has confirmed that. This is a general question, but do men prefer weak woman? Maybe they feel more manly? CV

CV55, this has been a "close to home exchange with you and Buttonzoo". About your question I suppose by my name you could say I am a weak man. W will say that a bit but I wouldn't call her a strong woman. In general I am a bit chauvenist I suppose. But while I like confident woman I am very turned off by what I'll refer to as a "man of a woman". example Hillary Clinton. You can be the CEO but lose the blue pinstripes. And I realize it's a very delicate balancing act for a woman particulary in the business world.

OK back to reality or fog. I had a pretty good exchange with W last night. Buttonzoo underscores my concern about this reoccuring down the road. She is very anxious to end the SH calls. I told her there is one particular thing he is trying to convey to her at my request. That is that I will have no further contact with the entire team. She accepted that and said why can't I talk to her instead of 3rd party. I'm going to try to pursue this discussion more this morning and see if we can learn to communicate better. Thanks for visiting and hopefully I'll have a good report later today.

just for clarification, does SH say for you not to attend any of her pool league stuff? also if you wouldn't mind could you read my post on my 5th session w/SH and tell me what you think? prayers to you.

RR, yes SH agreed I should not attend any event with OM again. Since that would include the rest of the team that's my position. He just told me don't declare your position right now simply dodge each event as it presents itself. I have let W in the past that that is my plan but I don't think she believes me. I recently told her that meant wedding, funerals etc. Everything. I'll go back and read your update and comment as well.

WOE

thanks, that does clear things up for me a little, not that that is your lot in life to make things clearer for RR <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> i've heard it mentioned here before and i believe SH told me as well not to really let the "interested parties" know what your "plan" is. to me interested parties, means anyone who is not supportive in what i'm doing. right now that is my family, my church, and the people here. i can't even count on my IL's. thanks for reading my post and i'll go and see what you wrote. continued prayers to you.

thought of something else to ask, what does SH say about the time that you have been giving to your WW? has he ever suggested plan b or going dark? forgive me if i misunderstand your situation. i know that SH helps us in whatever plan we wish to pursue but i also know that people in his position at times tell us "patients" what we don't want to hear some times. just curious.