Just curious about something.

Been having a rough week. Discovered H's hotel bills from 1/03 - 6/03 that I had never seen before. Saw check-in times and saw all the phone calls made to OW's home or cell phone. And saw the calls made to me immediately before and after sex with OW. It made me so crazy that I:

*pulled out my A chart and updated it with this new information (I thought I had put that away for good!)
*Asked H to run his work phone log during these months (had never seen this either). He fought it but I got it and updated that to the chart also.

I am such a loser!

Very little has been brought up about the A during the last couple of months or so.

Been posting here that H finally realized the importance of talking about the A with me and that I could discuss anything I wanted to with him.

NOT!

Very defensive, unwilling to talk, I'm causing him to have chest pains, when am I going to GET OVER THE A, he can't live like this anymore, if I don't stop it he's moving out...!! Bad week...LBing on both sides.

You would have thought the phone and hotel records were a national security issue!

Anyway, my question is about what a WS thinks during an A.

My H says that he never stopped loving me and he never considered divorcing me.

H says that he had the A because he thought I did not love him.

So, this H of mine (that loves me) proceeds to PA.

Says he knew that if I found out about the A that I would be very hurt and probably divorce him immediately.

Hmmm...if he didn't think I loved him, then why would I be hurt about an A? Oh, that's right...I was never supposed to know!

H takes OW to dinner and back to his hotel room the night before our anniversary and is with her on our anniversary. What could he have been thinking?

H has dinner with OW in our favorite restaurant. This restaurant holds many memories for us...we've celebrated our anniversary there...I gave him a special gift there...What could he have been thinking?

With the information I just found, I discovered that ON MY BIRTHDAY, H went to work early so he could call OW and talk to her on her way to work.

ON MY BIRTHDAY, H tells me that he has to go to work early because he is so busy...blah, blah, blah, lie, lie, lie! The call is in addition to the "you're so incredible, you're so wonderful, you're so whatever" email he sent to OW on my birthday. What could he have been thinking?

He comes home from work, throws a lounge chair cushion (yes- A lounge chair cushion) into the garage (I was standing at the door) and says "Happy Birthday". Takes me and my kids to BW3's for dinner. Yes, BW3's.

In fact, H has always treated me like **** on my birthday. I don't get it.

My birthday is coming up and I just absolutely dread it.

Anyway, I'm babbling I know. My question is why these key dates and places?

I know you all will answer that H wasn't thinking and that he was in the A fog, but I just have to throw it out there.

I'm trying to stay focused....I'm trying to stay focused...I'm trying to stay focused on the positive stuff that has happened during the past couple of months.

sss

Here is the conversation:

WS: I can't make it Tuesday. It is W's birthday.
OW: (Unhappy) I thought you loved me.
WS: Well, I do...but, you know, the kids expect it. What will they think if I don't take them out? I always take everyone out on special occasions.
OW: Well, OK...if it is for the kids. I know you love them lots. But, don't take her anywhere nice.
WS: OK...
OW: And...call me. I miss you so much. I'll be worried.
WS: OK...

<small>[ April 30, 2004, 11:01 AM: Message edited by: Jimmy Mac ]</small>

Before I post anything else.

Are you in Recovery and if so...how long have you been in Recovery?

MC started within two weeks of d-day.

H still lying 3 months later.

2nd attempt at recovery started around 10/20/03. H started AA program and started IC.

H still fights it.

H finally "gets it" in late 1/04 that we need to be able to talk about A, communicate, be honest with each other, etc.

So, I guess that's when real recovery began.

I guess what triggered me is that I have some upcoming business trips. Makes me nervous since I know H & OW planned their hotel meets during my trips or increased email, phone time, etc. Then I found the hotel bills. I had always wanted to see them, as well as the phone bills. Told H (nicely - no LB) about my anxiety over my upcoming trips, finding hotel bills and asked if I could see phone records. H lost it. I listened (quietly) for about 20 minutes while he said I'm causing him chest pains, when am I going to get over it, he lives in fear of when/if I'll bring up the A again... I didn't say anything except that I was sorry he felt that way and I wasn't trying to cause him pain.

LBing came much later..H started off by saying that I caused him to have the A. It was my fault. Well, that got me going.

I guess my post was really more of a vent. I know he didn't consider me while in the A. I know some of the old H came out when I asked about the phone records...he immediately fell into his old *defend himself, justify his actions, others caused him to do this* mode.

I really am trying to stay focused on the positive changes he has been making. H has been great for the past 3 months for the most part. It was shocking, however, to see him fall into the *blame W* mode and try to justify having another A.

I really don't understand the birthday thing. Not just last year, but since I have known H. It's confusing. H always seems to go *overboard* for say, Christmas, Sweetest day, Valentine's Day, etc. But he just seems to blow off my birthday. One year I was on a business trip the week of my b-day. H had called me every morning (and several times during the day) while I was gone except on my b-day. No call. In fact, I didn't end up catching up with H until about 10:00 that night, then it was like "Oh, by the way, HB!" Another b-day he said nothing in the morning, nothing all day, tells me when we are leaving work that he's going to be home late because he has to go shopping for a b-day gift for me and brings home an ice cream maker. Another "oh, by the way, HB".

I know..whine, whine, whine.

We're trying to get the rollercoaster out of the dip it just took. My kids are with their Dad this weekend so H and I will get some alone time.

sss

Ok...I got ya. Sorry....I haven't been here in a while.

I've been where you are now...needing to know this...and needing to know that.
What I found out was...the things that I felt that I needed to know the most....I really didn't need to know. They didn't have an affect on me...good or bad after I finally got the info. It's just something I THOUGHT I needed know to be able to move on.

Now....from my H's point of view:

EVERY time I would bring up needing to know something was like throwing the A in his face. Making him think of it again....bringing up more of the guilt that he had. He said the same thing your H has said...."When are you going to get over it and move on?"...or "Your never going to get over this are you?"

I finally figured it out when I saw a post one day that compared what we the BS's NEED to know to a puzzle. Wish I could find the post....but I'll try to explain it my way.

You need to explain to your H that it's like he's given you a 300 peice puzzle.....took half of the peices and won't let you look at the picture. Impossible to put it together and FINISH it.

Now...some of the peices won't mean a thing to you...and some will. Some won't have an affect on you...and some will. He has to know that.

It's really hard for the WS to understand why the BS can't just "get over it" and why they need to know certain things. Remember....what's important for you to know might not have seemed important to the WS.

Sounds to me like your H doesn't understand your "need to know". Something you might consider also is......think long and hard about the questions you are asking and the things that you are asking for. Those that you feel that you REALLY need to know....ask for....more than likely it's not going to have an affect one way or the other anyway....but...those that you can live without knowing....leave them be. Often we find out that the less we know the better off we are....especially when it was something that we weren't involved in.

By the way....my H isn't the best on my B-Day's either....but he makes up for it in other ways.

<small>[ April 30, 2004, 09:40 AM: Message edited by: Miss Priss ]</small>

{{{{{sss}}}} and HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!! (I know it's not the same but I'm excited about your birthday) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

You know I have no words of advice (hopefully some day I will) but wishing you a sunny day and a wonderful weekend.

Hang in there. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

It's ironic that you mentioned "Pieces of the Puzzle"...my Mom and I were talking about this just this morning..she stated WS knows exactly what he wants and what he is thinking but why is he leaving you in the dark about alot of things...why can't he just be honest?...Here is the post called "Pieces of the Puzzle"

"I know you are feeling the pain of guilt and confusion. I understand that you wish all this never happened and that you wish it would just go away. I can even believe that you truly love me and that your indiscretion hurts you emotionally much the same way it hurts me. I understand your apprehension to me discovering little by little, everything that led up to your indiscretion, everything that happened that night, and everything that happened afterwards. I understand. No one wants to have a mistake or misjudgment thrown in his or her face repeatedly. No one wants to be forced to "look" at the thing that caused all their pain over and over again. I can actually see, that through your eyes, you are viewing this whole thing as something that just needs to go away, something that is over, that he/she doesn't mean anything to you, so why is it such a big issue? I can understand you wondering why I torture myself with this continuously, and thinking, doesn't he/she know by now that I love him/her? I can see how you can feel this way and how frustrating it must be. But for the remainder of this letter I'm going to ask you to view my reality through my eyes.

"You were there. There is no detail left out from your point of view. Like a puzzle, you have all the pieces and you are able to reconstruct them and be able to understand the whole picture, the whole message, or the whole meaning. You know exactly what that picture is and what it means to you and if it can effect your life and whether or not it continues to stir your feelings. You have the pieces, the tools, and the knowledge. You can move through your life with 100% of the picture you compiled. If you have any doubts, then at least you're carrying all the information in your mind and you can use it to derive conclusions or answers to your doubts or question. You carry all the "STUFF" to figure out OUR reality. There isn't really any information, or pieces to the puzzle that you don't have.

"Now let's enter my reality. Let's both agree that this affects our lives equally. The outcome no matter what it is well affect us both. Our future and our present circumstances are every bit as important to me as it is to you. So, why then is it okay for me to be left in the dark? Do I not deserve to know as much about the night that nearly destroyed our relationship as you do? Just like you, I am also able to discern the meaning of certain particulars and innuendoes of that night and just like you, I deserve to be given the opportunity to understand what nearly brought our relationship down. To assume that I can move forward and accept everything at face value is unrealistic and unless we stop thinking unrealistically I doubt our lives will ever "feel" complete. You have given me a puzzle. It is a 1000 piece puzzle and 400 random pieces are missing. You expect me to assemble the puzzle without the benefit of looking at the picture on the box. You expect me to be able to discern what I am looking at and to appreciate it in the same context as you. You want me to be as comfortable with what I see in the picture as you are. When I ask if there was a tree in such and such area of the picture you tell me don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask whether there were any animals in my puzzle you say don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask if there was a lake in that big empty spot in my puzzle you say, what's the difference, it's not important. Then later when I'm expected to "understand" the picture in my puzzle you fail to understand my disorientation and confusion. You expect me to feel the same way about the picture as you do but deny me the same view as you. When I express this problem you feel compelled to admonish me for not understanding it, for not seeing it the way you see it. You wonder why I can't just accept whatever you chose to describe to me about the picture and then be able to feel the same way you feel about it.

"So, you want me to be okay with everything. You think you deserve to know and I deserve to wonder. You may honestly feel that the whole picture, everything that happened is insignificant because in your heart you know it was a mistake and wish it never happened. But how can I know that? Faith? Because you told me so? Would you have faith if the tables were turned? Don't you understand that I want to believe you completely? But how can I? I can never know what is truly in your mind and heart. I can only observe you actions, and what information I have acquired and slowly, over time rebuild my faith in your feelings. I truly wish it were easier.

"So, there it is, as best as I can put it. That is why I ask questions. That is where my need to know is derived from. And that is why it is unfair for you to think that we can effectively move forward and unfair for you to accuse me of dwelling on the past. My need to know stems from my desire to hold our world together. It doesn't come from jealousy, it doesn't come from spitefulness, and it doesn't come from a desire to make you suffer. It comes from the fact that I love you. Why else would I put myself through this? Wouldn't it be easier for me to walk away? Wouldn't it be easier to consider our relationship a bad mistake in my life and to move on to better horizons? Of course it would, but I can't and the reason I can't is because I love you and that reason in itself makes all the difference in the world."

<small>[ April 30, 2004, 10:29 AM: Message edited by: New Outlook ]</small>

New Outlook,

Thank you very much for posting this. This is the one that I was talking about.

I think this helped my H tremendously in understanding why I needed to know what I needed to know.

Thanks again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thanks all.

I have a copy of that letter of which I shared with H months ago. He stuck it in his underwear drawer.

Don't worry, I'm not going to chart that and try to figure out what it means!

sss