HI all,

Just wanted to let you know that things in my situation kind of came to a head last night.

I actually caught my wife at the other man's apartment last night, (Thank you all especially Heroswife for pushing me to be more investigative).

She had told me in the morning yesterday that she may be a bit late getting home because she has a coworker that is leaving and she had to go out to pick up a gift for her. Well again my persistant gut told me something was up.

So when i got home and she was not there i decided to take a ride by the other mans apartment just to see. Well low and behold there was her car.

After making 100% sure it was her car i then returned home and waited for her. I now felt i had enough proof btween this and the lied about cell phone logs to confront her with.

She called me from her cell phone on her way home saying she had finishe "shopping" and was on her way home she wanted to know if i wanted her to pick up something at the store. I said no "we have to talk". She said OK ill see you at home and the call ended.

When she arrived home she said "whats wrong" to which i said I want you to honestly tell me where you were tonight. She first started in with how she was shopping etc. to which i said are you sure that is all you want to tell me. Then she said oh yeah i bought (mr x) a card cause he has been blue lately and i brought it over to him. Then upon further pressing i found out she spent 1.5 hours there watching some of the ballgame with him.

Finally I was at least getting towards the truth. At that point i told her i wanted all of the truth. Basically she admitted to having been spending time with him (although not alot). She bought his kids easter baskets (he is divorced with 2 kids who live with x wife.) and that she was just councelling him cause he is depressed and she worries about it.

Well after i again said this is the whole truth and all of it and she said yes i then took my turn to speak.

I told her that I was angry and hurt. That she had in essence broken her marriage vows to me by putting another mans needs above those of out marriage and by outright lying to me. I told her that it really hurt that she full well knowing from our argument a week ago that i wanted her to have nothing to do with him still went and made contact with him. That her putting me on a guilt trip about not trusting her and yet lying to me in the next breath was really hurtful to me as well.

I then told her that while ther may not have been a PA going on that there certainly was an EA and that to me that was just as bad.

She then asked what do you want to do from here. I said that where we go from here is really up to her. I said that I Love her and want to make things work but that she had to do certain things in order for there to be any hope of things working. First i said she need to have NO contact at all with this guy. In fact at first i was going to contact him myself but backed off that upon her promise to tell him herself. I also told her that she need to know what she did was wrong not that i felt it was wrong so thus she would not do it again. She needed to believe in her own heart that it was wrong. I then said that there had to be 100% total openess and honesty between us. NO secrets NO lies no witholding information. Then i said we both need to work on putting US and out marriage 100% first. If these things can happen i said then yes we can get through this and hopefully have an even better marriage for it.

She then told me that she loved me and also wanted it to work. She agreed to no contact she agreed to total honesty and she agreed to putting us first.

So that is where i am at this morning. Actually i feel alot better. I feel perhaps i caught things in time. Only time will tell but i have so much more hope than i did yesterday. We still have bridges to cross and probably battles to fight but at least now we both know where we are at. At least now we both know something was wrong and we both know we need to work on US.

I thank all of you for helping me through this. Your help has meant more than you could know. I truly feel that you played a part in my wife and i being able to come out of this with hope that this can work out instead of with a broken marriage. I thank you all and God bless you all.

Time for her to write a NC letter to him. She should do it in writing, not in person. And you should approve it and mail it.

It should be short.

Dear OM- I love my husband and am going to work on my marriage. Please don't contact me for any reason.

A NO contact letter MUST be written. I don't have to tell you that this relationship with the OM was consuming her, you know that. It's one thing to say that she will not see him, and a very different thing to tell him in writing that she is committed to your marriage.

When face to face with you, she admits that it was wrong and wants to work on the marriage. If she is face to face with him again, it will continue...

PLEASE be sure that a letter is written and mailed, I don't want to see this repeat itself as it has for so many others.

You did a good job in working to save your marriage, keep it up! Ladysing

CL&P,
Not to put a damper on your mood, but I have a question about what you seem to believe about your WW A. From what little I've read she is telling you that It is an EA and not a PA.

So let me get this straight. You already have definite Proof that she has and IS lying to you. And yet you believe she is being truthful about there being no sexual contact? Call me a skeptic, but come on! Almost 100% of WS will lie and lie and lie, even when confronted with irrefutable proof.

Unfortunately, it kind of works like this. The WS creed is too deny, deny, and then deny some more. In fact one of the "tricks" is to admit to ONLY what their spouse absolutely knows about. For instance, if they are caught with emails or messages, then the A is just that: electronic communication. If they are caught kissing, then that's as far as they've ever went. Even if they are caught in actual intercourse, the story is that that is the First and only time . Pretty standard stuff.

Most A have a strong emotional component. (Especially for the woman). But once those feelings are known it is *almost impossible* for the WS and the OP to not consummate their relationship because of these intense feelings of attachment. So it is highly unlikely that your W has been spending many hours alone with a man she "can't give up" and there be no sexual contact. (yea, its possible...but not probable).

NOT that sex itself is the end all. Of course it is just as much a betrayal to only have an EA.

However, I am just concerned for your safety. In this day and age of fatal and/or lifetime STD's, you NEED to know what has been going on (& may STILL be going on). Another sad fact, is that almost 100% of WS DO NOT PRACTICE SAFE SEX! Yes, they will not only lie to you, betray your trust, destroy your family, they will also put you at risk for disease and death. They are SO selfish even your health or your life means nothing as compared to them getting their "fix" of their lover. Its not pretty, It does suck, but it is true.

You Both need to be tested, and you should refraim from any unprotected sex with her UNTIL you know that there is NO further contact between her and the OM.

My wife thought that because her OM was married that he would be safe and "clean". In fact he told her as much. And she believed him (as he is soooo trust worthy). Come to find out he was having an A with another single woman who worked in the same lab as he and my wife. So guess what, I had been having sex with all the men this young attractive single woman had been for 2 years. Scary?? Yes, very!
(And as this man is a serial cheater, Gosh knows how many more).

I only want you to be aware that it is very likely that she is not being totally honest with you on this issue. I understand that you "WANT" to believe her. ALL BS do. It makes us feel better. I just hope you can step back and make sure to take some measures to protect yourself. Just like pregnancy, it only takes 1 time to catch an STD. Please be careful and do not take everything she says at face value . Its cliche but an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

But it is of course your life, so you do what you think is best. Just wanted to give you another angle to consider. Please protect yourself. YOUR worth it.

This concludes this Public Service Announcement.

Sorry for the double post. Computers??

<small>[ April 30, 2004, 09:12 AM: Message edited by: top rope ]</small>

Confused,
The only problem with a no contact letter is that it isn't of much use between co-workers who do need to communicate in their jobs.

Is this the case with your W? Does she have to have professional interactions with the OM?

Dr. Harley does in fact recommend changing jobs if at all possible.

My H still works in the same complex as the FOW, but he was able to refer their communication through other people. Still he saw her. And, it took over 2 years to get to that point, before that the affair resumed 3-4 times, the PA ended about 6 months before the EA...because they played the game of emailing each other to "avoid" each other.

And now, she is the head of my Family Support Group as my H is deploying to Afghanistan. I can't tell you how aggravating it is to hear her talk about family support when she.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> Well, you get the picture.

Affairs between co-workers have long-lasting consequences and interaction, even if infrequent happens not only between the WS & OP, but the BS. I also see her at Christmas parties, retirements, weddings, funerals.

And we're a success story, as we reconciled and have been in recovery for 4 years. This kind of affair is hard to end because of the ongoing contact and "what if/fantasy" factor of seeing the OP.

Sorry about calling you out on your other thread, I'm glad it was mere forgetfulness and not something that was negative for you.

I agree 100% with Top Rope. I have not had any coffe yet and was too easy on you earlier. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

She has lied to you, she lied to you last night. Why would she suddenly tell you the WHOLE truth? She only admitted to what she KNEW she could not deny.

Why admit to a PA if you believed that it had not gone that far?

You don'e have any PROOF that it is physical, but all signs point to it. You need to ASSUME that it COULD be physical and protect yourself from possible disease. I don't care it your W scoffs at this, she put you both in the position.

She spent time at his apartment, lied about it and when confronted about it, told you that she was delivering a card. You can believe her story, but your health is at stake.

MY BROTHER DIED OF AIDS DUE TO AN AFFAIR.

Do I need to say anything else?

C,L &P

I couldn't have said it betteer than Top Rope.

If it were me I'd want to know if it was a PA. Go to Radio Shack today and buy a voice activated recorder. Hook it up to an active phone line unser a bed or behind a dresser.

You'll find out if she's been totally honest and if she is following NC.

NC should be a letter. NOT her telling him. Draft a simple letter that says our R had gone tto far. I've hurt my H and I can no longer have anything to do with you.

cwmac

CL&P -

You should be proud of yourself for going with your gut on this one. You may have caught this prior to a full blown PA.

I want you to prepare yourself for the emotional roller coaster. Right now you are feeling relief that your W says she wants to be with you. That's a good thing and the best thing for you to get over to the recovery boards.

You need to expect some withdrawl from your W. She will be on her own roller coaster of emotions. She will waver from feeling guilty for hurting her husband and she will feel anger towards you for taking her "fix" away from her. This OM made her feel good about herself...even if she knew in her mind that what she was doing was wrong. It's called the "fog" for a reason. She's out of her mind right now.

So your next step is to force her to write a NC letter. You need to make sure she understands that while she may not think this is necessary it is necessary to you and your well-being. It doesn't have to be a long letter...just state what was stated above.

I have mixed feelings about you contacting OM. Some on this board will tell you not to. I will tell you from my experience I could have never made it to recovery without confronting OW. I called her point blank and laid down the law. "This is my marriage and you aren't welcome here. I love my husband and come hell or high water I will fight for him. If you are up for this battle then bring it on and I'd suggest you bring a packed lunched because I will not go down without a fight." Now those weren't my words, mind you but that was my attitude. I was calm in this discussion and stated the facts along with the impact that this A could have on both of their careers.

So if you feel like you have to confront OM I would say that you should do it but be prepared for his reaction.

You now need to focus on Plan A and changing yourself.

Make sure your wife knows that you can get beyond this and that you will not hold this over her head for the rest of your life. She will worry about this. My H described it as me having him in a head lock. While I wanted nothing more but to get him in a headlock at the time I assured him that I loved him more then anything in this world and that no mistake...regardless of how bad it hurt me...would ever make me stop loving him.

I'm so proud of you for doing what you did. You have to trust your gut. You are a brave brave brave honorable man and your wife is very lucky to have you in her life.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by confused , lost and perplexed:
<strong>She then asked what do you want to do from here. I said that where we go from here is really up to her. I said that I Love her and want to make things work but that she had to do certain things in order for there to be any hope of things working. First i said she need to have NO contact at all with this guy. In fact at first i was going to contact him myself but backed off that upon her promise to tell him herself. I also told her that she need to know what she did was wrong not that i felt it was wrong so thus she would not do it again. She needed to believe in her own heart that it was wrong. I then said that there had to be 100% total openess and honesty between us. NO secrets NO lies no witholding information. Then i said we both need to work on putting US and out marriage 100% first. If these things can happen i said then yes we can get through this and hopefully have an even better marriage for it.

She then told me that she loved me and also wanted it to work. She agreed to no contact she agreed to total honesty and she agreed to putting us first.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Just a word of caution here – be sure you sign the no contact letter (and go with her to be sure it gets mailed)! I went through this same type of scenario about 3 months ago where my W agreed to end all contact with the OM but I didn't have a part in the first no-contact letter/e-mail, so the affair continued. I kept asking about the OM over the next couple of months and she always lied saying that there was no contact. When I uncovered it the second time around (about 2 1/2 weeks ago), I wrote the no-contact e-mail myself and sent it to his home and work. My wife had his e-mail addresses blocked at her work by the IT dept. (she forwarded me the e-mails about having them blocked) and I blocked them at home as well. Bottom line here is (this sucks to say) you should not trust her to do anything on her own. She should show you absolute proof that all contact has stopped. It is important to remember that she was the one having the affair and sneaking around, not you, so you should not feel any guilt about questioning her and requesting proof. She betrayed the trust and it is up to her to rebuild it.

Please get into MC as quickly as possible now – make this a very high priority. In fact you should call today to get the first session scheduled. Begin sessions now while you are working through all of the details of the affair, it will help both you and her to rebuild your marriage.

HI all,

Thank you all for the replies. In answer to your question Lor unfortunantly yes he does work at the same company as her albiet in a different department. I have been giving serious thought to that problem. As for concerns about std's let me start by saying to Ladysing that i am so sorry to hear about your brother. I did actually discuss that topic with her although from a different angle. I was approacing it from the fact that until we know for certain that this is behind us 100% it would be very unfair to bring a child into this marriage. Thus i said for a while at least there would me no unprotected sex. The testing thing i had not thought of and i thank you for bringing it to my attention. You all are also right in that I DO so much want to believe that she has come clean on this and perhaps that can somewhat cloud my judgment. Especially in the fact that that same gut feeling that told me something was wrong is now telling me to try give her a shot to prove she is telling the truth to me now. She is just so positive about US now, like a weight has been lifted or something. Now i know that could be that she thinks she is going to get away with something. I am just trying to look on the hopeful side. I am certainly going to have my eyes WIDE open now though, no more guilt about snooping for me and I have told her as much. As to me contacting OM myself i am going to see where things lead in the next day or 2 on her writing him a NC letter and how things are going in general. If I dont have a good feeling on how things are moving then i just may contact him. The STD thing though is a good point. It is always better to be safe then sorry. Thank you all again for helping be deal with all this.

CL&P -

Start thinking about what you need to feel safe in your M again.

Do you need check up phone calls during the day? (I needed these and I still get them even though we are in recovery...it helps.)

Do you need her to agree to IC as well as MC?

Do you want to read HN/HN together...you read a chapter, she reads a chapter?

Does she need to leave her job? (I didn't make my H leave his job and OW is his boss. Many people here said recovery would not be possible without that. I think this has been a good thing in some respect because her warts came out left and right after exposure. My H has absolutely no respect for her now. He stood up to his chain of command and owned up to his mistakes. OW on the other hand sold him up the river to make herself look better. She has no honor.)

These are decisions you need to make. No one can make them but you. We will be here to support you regardless.


Please do not stop the snooping. You need a reason to trust and right now you do not have a reason to trust your W. Get the phone recorder. Check her call logs on her cell phone. If you have to get her to add you to the bill so you have access to everything. Sign up for on-line billing and make sure you pay the extra $1 for detail billing. If your cell company doesn't display incoming calls in detailed billing then you can supeona those records.

Do not let your guard down yet. It's your goal now to save your marriage. If you start to trust too early on in the process you may open the door for your W to go back to OM.

Love her, show her unconditional love right now. To love someone that deserves your love is not a big accomplishment but to love someone who may not deserve your love and forgiveness is the greatest accomplishment of all. Right now she does not feel like she deserves your love. Show her that you do love her right now. Show her in a big way. It won't be easy...it's easier to get mad and be bitter. Dig deep here.

I also recommend that you follow the advice of Toprope and not trust the words of your wife at this time. It is likely that she may still be in the fog. Also , from my experiences my wife lied and minimized what she had done over and over and over. Be very careful…

I also recommend that you follow the advice of Toprope and not trust the words of your wife at this time. It is likely that she may still be in the fog. Also , from my experiences my wife lied and minimized what she had done over and over and over. Be very careful…

cl & p,

Hello again.
Guess I need to jump back in here on another issue you've brought up. This one being the whole it's OK to continue "working together" issue.
Is it OK with you, or just OK with her?
Of course she thinks she can handle it. However, this is the same woman who thought she could handle the friendship and remain faithful too you. She has major blinders on (where this illicite relationship is concerned). Are you putting them on as well?

My concern has less to do with the A starting back up again. (Not that this isn't a possibility and others may address that point) but I want to focus on YOUR mental and emotional ability to handle it. Yes, I understand that things appear to be going well right now and you may be experiencing a type of 'honeymoon" period with your WW. My concern is how are you going to hold up knowing that day after day and week after week, she is going to continue to go back into the same environment and the same atmosphere and potentially be around the same guy for most of her waking day?

There are triggers that we all have to face (both the BS and the WS). For me continued contact with the OP at the place the A started, was nurtured and then grew would be a tough row to hoe.

Also your wife my have these triggers at work as well. They will not only make her more susceptible to returning to the A and all its "feel good" emotions, but also can hinder your recovery by making her feel very guilty about what she has done to you and your M. Why not take steps to remove as many of the potential obstacles (that you know about in advance) as you can? (Believe me recovery is difficult enough, without trying to overcome problems you can already foresee). Why make it harder on yourself then it needs to be?

Even though there are examples of it being done, the percentages of a M surviving (and being healthy) are so much lower if the WS and OP continue to work together. In other words, (to steal the tag of one of the more experienced posters here)
NO Contact means NO Contact! What part of that don't you understand??

To put it differently: The healing and recovery CanNot begin UNTIL the A has ended. And the A cannot end while the WS is still in it. As long as there IS contact the A is still ongoing...on some level. Consequently, withdrawal is never gotten over as long as contact continues. Each renewed contact takes the WS right back to day one withdrawal. The addictive nature and intense emotions of an A make it this way.

IMO I doubt she can really handle this, long term successfully. It is still so early that she can't give rational judgments about her A. You've already seen first hand where her decisions lead YOU concerning this guy and this situation. Really think she's ready to make the hard choices now?

She of course wants as little to change as possible. She will also SAY anything to keep her life as change free as possible. Don't make the mistake and fall for it. They all follow the same pattern. READ the posts here and find out for yourself. She' s not the first, just the most recent.

Finally, Do you think you can really handle her being there ...with him... long term? Or can you see this may cause you some real problems in your recovery process? It is very likely that IF she continues to work there, your imagination and your trust issues will wear you out mentally and emotionally and possible destroy your M. ( This can happen Even if nothing is going on).

In addition, it shows (and Proves) so much to the BS, for the WS to be willing to leave the place and person, where and with whom they caused so much pain and heartache with. Would it not really be a tangible sign to you, if she would be willing to leave her job just to keep you? How much would that mean to you? How much trust would that restore? Probably way more then all the "words" and promises she could ever make. Cause not all promises are kept and many words are lies, as you've already found out. This is something REAL she could do for her M.

Please don't let this just be about the $$money$$! Any job that she goes to will pay her $money. Make this be about both your M and your continued happiness.

This situation was too hard on the both of us. It was like this looming spector was there on my shoulder and in my mind everyday she went to work. As a result we were miserable all work week long. Things were good Friday to Sunday and then it all would started again Sunday night. Maybe I am just weak but I couldn't handle it. Then my wife began to not be able to handle the work place triggers herself. In the end, both my W and the OM left the company. (Now my wife has an even better job and better life.) Which she never would have persued if not for me speaking my objections.

Just give this some real thought. I'd hate to see you waste valuable time and energy fighting battles you don't need to engage in. However, If in the end you decide that you can BOTH handle this indefinitely , then I wish you success and a happy M.

Any way, Keep an open mind, Keep trying and keep smiling.

<small>[ April 30, 2004, 12:09 PM: Message edited by: top rope ]</small>

Confused,
Thank you for your comments about my brother. This is going to seem cold but in the world that we live in today, anyone who participates in a sexual relationship outside of monogamy is playing Russian roulette...

My brother was married and had 3 children. He made the decision to be unfaithful and contracted Aids. No one knows how many people someone else has slept with. The reality of fatal disease is not something that is discussed very often when infidelity is discussed.

My brother died as a result of his bad decisions and infidelity. His family is angry at what he has left behind. They will suffer forever.

I did not mean to hijack your thread, but I hope that even 1 person sees this and stops to contemplate the potential ramifications of infidelity or casual sex. It's NOT worth it!