We have had 8 calls so far. 1 per week. I believe SH hits her pretty hard and she counters with all I've done wrong through the years. But since he is dealing with the issue at hand I suppose she is being worn down. Anyway I mentioned to Steve that W seems to be under a lot of pressure from these calls. He told me that is the plan. To increase the pressure gradually. Well she recently approached family doctor for anti-depressants. He asked what is going on and she told him MC but not why. Anyway doctor is smart and known us for 15 yrs. He told W she should seek IC. He prescribed that about 8 mos. ago and she went for about 12 weeks. Anyway she is really wanting to end this MC with SH. I think it is very distasteful for her to face the fact that we are in MC as a result of her ONS 2.5 yrs ago. I don't think she get's the EA at all. Anyway the point of this post is to ask should I back off and discontinue the counseling? Or continue by myself which would likely be viewed as a LB?

I can honestly say the counseling has helped tremendously but of course more could be gained but only with enthusiastic support from W. I was kinda thinking I would make an agreement with W that I would stop scheduling the calls if she would consider to visit MB's forum for an hour a week. Let her browse around and go into whatever category she thought interesting. I have no doubt she would stumble into enough pain around here to sober her up a bit. I just would like some advice before I give up the phone calls with SH. Should I negotiate some type of settlement. Meantime we are doing a bit better each day. The fog may really be lifting a little. But of course still no consideration of ending contact.

Why don't you try scheduling them every couple of weeks instead of every week. That will give her time more time to think. Also the anti-D's will probably really help her.

believer, that's a good idea. I think it's a good opportunity to open a discussion and that would be a real step in the right direction. I could get her input as to how often would be convenient etc.?

Also, why do you think the anti d's might be good for her? What do think she might be going through?

of course, i want to say that i'm sorry for the continued struggle. don't know if i can say much but will try especially since you've been so good to responding to me.

i personally from a "patient" and from a "clinical" point of view (i'm a nurse) think that spreading the sessions out for her is a great idea. i agree w/the whole pressure thing but i think it's a delicate balancing act and sounds like it just may now be the time to relieve some of the pressure. i also think you should continue the MC by yourself if necessary. i'm not sure why she would perceive this as an LB because after all, you are wanting to follow your words by actions, proving to her that you are serious about the changes you've made and sticking to them right?

i don't know about the idea of having her come to the MB forums. i guess i'm not as familiar w/your story as some. i could see this a couple of different ways, 1) being this is a way of trying to control her again or still and if this was an issue in the past then maybe "that" hasn't really changed 2) but at the same time if she entered into some kind of agreement w/you for counseling and by you asking her to come to the forums is a way of holding her accountable to what she has agreed to then it might not be a bad idea.

so don't think i shed any light on your situation but i'm sure you know you could always run things by SH and see what he has to say. continued prayers to you.

Hey Walking! First of all, just because she doesn't want to continue with SH doesn't mean you should stop. Why would that be an LB? Just because she is messed up doesn't mean you should stop doing whatever is helping you to grow and be stronger.

I like the idea of every other week. At least try it. If she is totally closed to the sessions, she won't let anything in. In case you don't know, my profession is counseling. I have been working with a client for months who wanted to stop counseling several months ago. I didn't think she was ready to quit, but she wasn't open. She was very much denying anything was really wrong. I saw her 2 weeks ago and through my questions I found out she was seriously suicidal. Bottom line is that there was no way I could detect this because every time I talked to her she avoided and denied her deep problems. If your W isn't ready to do the work it won't happen. Hopefully IC will help her. Same thing for her coming to this MB site. I wouldn't force it. You can't force someone to learn and grow. You can't control her, but you do have control over yourself. Which leads me to the next question. When will her EA get to the point that YOU can't tolerate it anymore? I guess you'll know when you are there, or hopefully she will see the light.

An AD will help her. Hopefully it will clear her head out. I have seen this with my clients when therapy alone wasn't enough. The AD and therapy helped them to recognize their faulty thinking.

Good luck! CV

RR, thanks for your thoughts and prayers. Seems everyone agrees that less is more and I should consider every other week. You are also right about trying to force feed her this forum. I can see when she sits and watches Dr.Phil she is getting it. She understands how hurtful an A is.
She just can't admit it to me. And that's OK. It's not about shoving her face in it. I am feeling better all the time. In short my story is W joined pool team over 4 years ago and had PA/EA with my best friend. He did the right thing and left the team and our lives. Enter the 2nd OM. Quickly results in EA/PA (ONS) and this has drug on for 2.5 years. I have finally gotten back on my feet and am pushing for change. Now you're up to date. Sort of.

CV55, you're right that you can't force somebody else to learn or grow. I will back off on the MB forum and just ask her if she would consider SH every other week. Maybe I could let her know that that is what I'll be doing. It scared me a little that she is running to her doctor for anti d's. I'm glad you see some value there. I just don't want to Chinese Water Tourture her to death. But you asked me a specific question; when is enough - enough? Here's how this unfolded. After her revelation of the ONS over 2 years ago, I was spinning. During that time she was busy strengthening the EA which I really never understood. By the time I figured out that she COULDN'T or wouldn't stop calling this guy I started to fight with her about it. Passively at first, but then TooMuchCoffeeMan explained to me that woman will want to stay connected to a former lover much more than men. That got through to me and I knew I had to end it. Then with no success and lots of moaning here, ChrisCA123 convinced me to go to Harley. They were both important posts for me. Now that I am in counseling I feel the swing of power in my marriage. This wasn't by design but now W is more concerned about what I'm doing than the other way around. So to answer your question the EA is now a heavy burden for her. Because if she could have demonstrated the ability to stop calling and stop loving him, I might have been naive enough to accept him as part of our friends. I didn't know what I know now. So now I think the weight is on her, because I believe the EA dissipates at some point and she will now have to attend any weddings, funerals, christenings, house warmings alone. This is a group of 8 so they have lots of life events. I am dead set on not attending any of it. So she has paid a high price for a stupid EA. My intent is not to spite her but only to protect myself and my image of her. So the EA is now more of a burden to her than to me. I hope that makes sense to you. I was really thinking of starting a seperate post about this very thing. When the A dies and becomes a burden to the wanderer ie. a work setting where they grow to dispise each other but are forced to work together. The penalty for an affair is really awesome and I hope I never stray.

WOE

Anyway the point of this post is to ask should I back off and discontinue the counseling?
You ask this and then you post the following;

I believe SH hits her pretty hard and she counters with all I've done wrong through the years. But since he is dealing with the issue at hand I suppose she is being worn down. Anyway I mentioned to Steve that W seems to be under a lot of pressure from these calls. He told me that is the plan. To increase the pressure gradually.

Have you asked Steve what he thinks?

Or continue by myself which would likely be viewed as a LB?
Why would counseling by yourself be a LB?
You would be doing it to enhance your relationship with her and make it better.
To me, at this point, counseling by yourself is not gonna do much. You (hopefully) know the concepts pretty well at this point and are applying them. I think if you do it yourself, you would not need it much at all. Perhaps if you get stuck and don’t know what to do.

You could schedule them farther apart.

I just would like some advice before I give up the phone calls with SH. Should I negotiate some type of settlement.
Yeah. You’ll quit if she continues. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Also, why do you think the anti d's might be good for her? What do think she might be going through?
??? Why are you asking this? Simply read what you have written in this topic alone.

Chris, I haven't yet asked what SH thinks. He did previously tell me getting her to the phone is positive (because it's been pulling teeth so far). I think I will schedule a call next week and let W know I gave us a week off this week. I won't try to make it all about her but rather us.

I was surprised that CV55 thought anti-d's were a positive. It seemed to me more escaping. But you're right in that I do understand exactly what she is running from; the facts.

I also agree that to go it alone is not necessary. I do understand the concepts. But to offer to stop if she continues is priceless. I'll offer that out. Believe me I'm not defeated if the counseling ends. It did have a very positive effect. That combined with consistent but moderate pressure from me plus the A itself losing some of its allure, has all pushed things in a much better direction. I simply want to keep going in that right direction. It's not a race to get there but more to know that we're going in the same direction. This guy will eventually fade from her life. But I'm trying to make sure there won't be others. Thanks for visiting.

i still think it is a race but it's more like a cross-country marathon. lots of turns, hills, valleys, and it's LONG but like you said it's being on the correct path. stay the course <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

I was surprised that CV55 thought anti-d's were a positive. It seemed to me more escaping.
Anti-depressants are far misunderstood by many people.
They don't "numb" you out, get you "high" or make you "carefree". They don't make you feel like you are "escaping".
You still feel everything you felt before.
They are not at all like weed or alcohol, in which you are not don't care or forget things.
They affect the neuro-transmitters in the brain.

If your emotions (when depressed) are generally on a scale of -7 to +7 with 0 being the middle, anti-deps will simply even it out a bit more, say from -3 to +3.

Chris, thanks for that explaination. I thought it was like pain killers to dull the senses. With your description, and that's perhaps what CV55 was also trying to say, it would seem ideal for her. Not just for this situation but she is generally way too volatile. I thank you for again for convincing me to counsel with SH and you're a bright spot around here. I really do feel better all the time as of late. Wife really does seem to be coming out of it as of late. One of her dearest friends (male) is leaving the team. He and his W are getting are moving away and she is pregnant with their first. So it shows her that this is not the be all end all. That people move on in their lives. So I really think the allure is gone and I want to be supportive when she crashes, if she crashes. This is the most up I've been in a long time.

WOE, I hope you get what I was saying about ADs now. Before I began working with clients I thought ADs were over prescribed. I think they are often given too quickly. However, depression can mess up the wiring in the brain. Sometimes a person wiring predisposes them to depression and anxiety, and other times the depression and anxiety start messing with the wiring. When I see therapy just isn't doing it, an AD is recommended. I have seen how it can clear up a person't negativity and anxiety enough to allow progress to begin. I had never been on an AD, but 2 weeks into the "truth telling" about the A. I knew I was in a major depression. I called my doctor and asked her to put me on one. Truthfully I don't know if I would have done so well without one. I still have felt immense pain, but I felt in control.

Finally, in the beginning of my H's NC his withdrawal was horrible. Panic attacks every night. He was on an AD and I suggested he call his psychiatrist for a med evaluation. The doctor upped his dose and he was able to cope better. I didn't want his feelings to be numbed out because he needs to feel his feelings. That's what got us in this mess in the 1st place. However, if his high anxiety was going to cause him to call the "B" again that wasn't good. The increased dose was necessary.

There's one more thing I want to comment on but I don't have time now. I'll try to write later. CV

WOE, chris and CV gave very good explanations. i have been on AD's for awhile and would concur w/what they have said. also from nursing/clinical standpoint, i've heard providers and patients describe it this way as well. However, now that i look back on things, i think that if i had known what i know now (HN/HN, LB's, etc.) i probably wouldn't have needed them and i have started tapering off my RX since feb and haven't felt any differently.

now did i just post a mixed signal reply or what? maybe my bottom line is that you cannot rely on RX to get you through things but definitely they can help and i did feel that my RX helped me a lot over the years in absence of what i know now about MB concepts. prayers to you.

CV, thanks for the additional help. I am starting to really come around myself and I know what you mean about wanting to feel the feelings. Not only for WS but for ourselves as well. This certainly isn't a life sentence and I look forward to attaching the word "former" to the A. But here's a glimpse into W's mind. She always tells me don't tell her how much counseling with SH costs. She justs doens't want to face this monetarty expense as part of her A. SH told me she is excellent as compartmentalizing things. A trait that is normally more prevalent in men than woman. But when I add all the additional weight, like counseling, it makes it difficult for her to put it all away. So I guess coming out of the fog is very painful in that you must face the damage that you have done. Up till now she just tries to keep stuffing it under the rug. I will look forward to your additional comments and insight.
IC has also helped me get where I'm at.

RR, oh I definitely agree with getting a little help in the beginning. It is such a devastating experience. I gotta run for a little while but will check back with you.

WOE