Thank you to everyone for your support! Ark, thank you for your post! I have read it and I realize that I am also a master at number 3. I know I have got to stop it. I am realizing that my problem is that I did a great Plan A up until about 4 days ago. I realized at that time that all the work that I was putting into my marriage was doing absolutely no good according to my WH. He was not responding, not receptive to anything I did, doesn't care, and is not willing to let me fill his EN's. He sat there in front of SH and said all this stuff to him. He said he doesn't believe that he can fall in love at which point SH said he is not letting me fill his EN's so he wont fal in love. He has to let me in first, but he doesn't care, he doesn't want to let that shield down.

After hearing all this from WH, I probably gave up. I feel as though I am wasting my energy on something he does not want. I cannot do this alone and i canot even do a good plan A if he is not willing to let me in. I am not a doormat and that is what I have been for the past 2 months.

He now says he will TRY. I know he wants this marriage. he wants to do the right thing. BUT, what is the right thing. Stay with the mother of your children even if you dont love her. Not good enough for me. If he is not going to love me, why should we stay together.

What can I do now? Can I go back into a Plan A? Am I capable of doing a Plan A? Maybe I am not capable of it? I changed so much, but now I feel I am back to the way I was. I dont want to be that person.

Please help me get my sanity back and get back on track with what I need to do. Thank you!

mom - Time to relax a little. Dad does love you, he is just addicted. You don't have to do anything right now. You have not wasted time doing Plan A, or going to the MB weekend. The seeds have been planted, calm down and wait for them to grow.

When you feel like LBing, come here and LB to us. Sometimes it feels so good, just to post a huge rant.

Thanks believer! I do come here to rant and LB, but then people take as I am LBing my H <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> How on earth is posting here LBing my H? I thought I was supposed to come here to LB so I DONT LB my H!

So you are saying just relax...I can do that! Do I start another Plan A? or just relax? Can this get any more confusing? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Just relax. The seeds have been planted. I know it was a disappointment that dad didn't just jump and during the MB weekend and exclaim "I SEE THE LIGHT!"

He is still in the fog. You need to forget about OW. She is not married to him. You are his wife. You are beautiful and the mother of his sons. So sit back and make your home and family the most attractive alternative.

During this time, be the lighthouse, showing him the way home. He is still in the fog.

You have done so well for so long, you can continue. The reason people say don't LB here is because dad may be reading here.

There is another board you can also try called "saveyourmarriagecentral". Many of the people here post there also.

Hi believer! I honestly dont think Dad reads much on here anymore. He rarely uses the computer at home and doesn't have time to at work. Also, I remember him getting upset at me reading one of his posts and I think it was pepperband who responded sayng this is an open forum...which is true. If Dad wants to read my posts, that is fine, but I will forewarn him that this is the place I come to vent and get my frustrations out instead of doing it to him directly. Does that make sense. I need this board to do that. This board is my salvation.

I have also registered at saveyourmarriage, but I feel as though not many of them over there know me like here. I feel comfortable cuz you all know me and my story and I get soooo much support here.

on another note. Was just taking son to school and phone rang. picked it up and it was H...calling to say hello! He sounded cheerful. Asked how my night was...said I was up alot thinking. he told me not to think so much that I am running myself into the ground. just go with the flow. relax. I told him I would stop thinking and just relax and take it day by day...actually at the beginning of this whole mess I took it minute by minute. I amthinking too far into the future now. TODAY is what I need to focus on. Why did I let that slip from me...I know better than that.

OK< today is a new day! I know we are 5 weeks into recovery, but today is the first day for me again. I am going to make myself and our home the best place to be. I am going to start cleaning the house better and cooking him dinners again. I am giong to be ok and so are WE!

Mom,

While it must have been an unbelievably disappointing shock to hear your H say those things to SH... I've been thinking... and at least your H is being nakedly honest. That is actually a very good thing. Focus on allowing him to continue to be honest in a safe, nurturing place.

Definitely continue Plan A. It will accomplish two things:
1. You will be a better person.
2. Your H, although not receptive to allowing you to make deposits and meet his ENs, will have less opportunity to "rewrite history" with those internal "if only she would..." and "she never..." comments.

Regarding coming here to vent and getting accused of LBing your H. It's sometimes not clear from your posts if you're here to blow off steam so you can continue to present a calm face at home, or if what you're posting here is also what you're verbalizing to your H. We see the LBs and get alarmed (on your behalf) and caution you. We want you to succeed, Mom. And you *are*, you know - this is just a perceived setback and may actually be a breakthrough.

That's the spirit. I know you sometimes feel down and out of control. But actually, you hold all of the cards. That's what my WH used to tell me, but I couldn't see it then.

Lean on us and we will get you through this. Also post on the other board, and very soon people will get to know your loveable self.

The other thing I would suggest, that people may not agree with, is start encouraging dad to use up those pills with you. He seems to think he needs them (and they do increase performance, hehe), so why have him tempted to waste them on that pesky OW?

Thank you TH and Beleiver! MOST of the time I am just blowing off steam when I say things on this board. If I ahve actually said something, I will quote it or say H said or I said to H....I know that I DO LB occasssionally, but I honestly TRY real hard to keep those pesky LB's here. Also when I do LB him I apologize and say I shouldn't have done that and he will usually say "no need to apologize you have every right to be angry" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> which confuses me further.

About the SF and the pills...well, one problem, he is not ready for that yet. That is the biggest EN he is having problems with. SF with OW was unbelieveabl and with me it is blah...so he says. so I will wait until he is ready. As long as I am filling the other needs I think it will be OK. I will keep a closer eye on those pills though!

Sorry to hear about you M23B

Doing Plan A is not easy. I did not last longer than 3 weeks. I admire your strenght.

You will know when it is the time to do plan B.

My WH went through the same emotions during 3 of my false recoveries. He said he did not love me...pining for OW...thinking of OW...felt empty...miserable living with me...blah blah blah There i was busting my [censored] giving him all the EN and i wasnt even getting any. It is frustrating.

I reach a point when i knew i could not go on any more by looking at him...and seeing someone i despise...hated...a stranger...a monster...a very very selfish person...and no longer the man i married. That was the point i knew i had to go into plan B.

You stay at plan A as long as you can. Been there and done that so i know how it feels like.

Hugs to you M23B

<small>[ May 05, 2004, 08:54 AM: Message edited by: zizzycool ]</small>

Mom, I just caught up on this thread and the "pill" thread. I feel the need to not give advice, but to just share some thoughts. I'm too new at all of this to give any advice.

First of all, when my H began posting here I realized for now I don't want him reading my posts, or me reading his. For myself, I knew if H was reading what I wrote I'd start censoring myself. In spite of H's former lying behavior, he has respected that, and he doesn't want me to read what he writes for the same reason. If he posts here he can't get help if he can't be honest, and is worried about hurting my feelings.

I for one have not viewed you as overly LBing your H. Maybe because we have been walking a similar walk I understand the need to vent on here. Sometimes I just have to get it out, and unfortunately call my H an A%%, so I won't do it to him. And sometimes I have to confess my LBing ways on here, which I think have been much worse than what you have ever done.

I'm going to put a disclaimer on what I'm going to say next. Please don't anyone blast me. This has just been my experience. There have been times that I have laid it out to H. Such as over the past month telling him if he thinks it would be so great with OW, then go follow your bliss. In the past week while he was grieving OW I asked him to consider and really picture me, the woman he's known for 26 yrs., out of his life forever. Would he grieve me? I haven't yelled or screamed at him, but have tried to point things out. There have been times I have gotten upset and told him I hope he gets his SH** together before I can't deal with it anymore. On Sunday I did LB him and actually told him I was sorry I followed the MB principles and wish I would have kicked him out 4 months ago. Then I'd be further along in my own recovery. In our situation, these conversations have woken him up a little more. Maybe because we have always ended up talking and then comforting one another. Again, I am not saying this would be the case for everyone. It also might be the place we are in right now, which is almost 6 weeks of NC. Mom, I don't think you can even say "in recovery" until you know your H isn't in the A. I can't even call what we are "in recovery" yet.

Finally, only you know what you can tolerate or not tolerate. I am pretty sure if my H began seeing OW again I would tell him to leave, and he would be outed. I could be wrong. Maybe I wouldn't do that. However, being emotionally divorced for 8 months, and then going through this hell since January, I think I'd be ready for a break.

Sorry this is so long, but one more thing. I had to drag every bit of truth out of my H over the 1st month. He would come clean when I would calmly tell him my suspicions and just let him know that the truth is far less painful than my imagination. Many here are telling you to drop the pill incident, and maybe you should. On the other hand, if the truth will ease your anxiety and you can handle it, maybe you need to get it. Whenever the truth came out in our situation my H felt relieved.

Sorry, one last thought. This morning H thanked me for not kicking him out. He said he is remembering we had a good M, and remembering our connection. One month ago he couldn't remember. One of the reasons H was thinking of leaving me was because he didn't think he was sexually attracted to me anymore. Now he knows he is. It is painful to here the fogtalk. Don't let it undermine your self-esteem. The one thing I have shown H throughout this is that I have retained my self-esteem in spite of his A.

Hang in there! I don't know how to use IM. I should ask H because that was a favorite means of communication between he and the "B". What I have had to tell myself throughout this is that I will be OK with or without H. You will be also! CV

I REALLY like the stopping in at nursing home idea...I mean REALLY like it. It lets the staff know you are a real person, not some shrew they are helping hte good doc get away from. It will set up the NH to be YOUR territory, and depending on how your H sees it, it will add bonus points if you bring food or sexy lingerie...

What's keeping you from doing it?

Heck, what is keeping you from stopping in where he works at other times too...could be it will keep some other conniving woman from going after the dear old doc if she knows you will stop by at any time...and getting to know the staff will help them NOT enable the A.

Bring the kids...

StillHere...I dont know what is stopping me from going to the nursing home. For one thing, he is only there one hour a week. I cant go into the back where the patients are so I would have to stay in the front. Also, I am probably embarrassed a bit. it would be like, yea, here is my wife, now what do I do. I might do it one day though. Just so happen to BE WITH HIM while he rounds. Only an hour, so we are going to lunch afterwards...

CV...I swear you and I are twins...I also have kicked my H out several times. 4 being yestrday. He tells me each time, that I am absolutely right and I have every right to be angry with him. I tell him taht I feel bad about LBing him and that I shouldn't ahve done it...he says, dont be sorry, it is OK. I dont ever lose my temper or scream and holler, I just tell him like it is. I tell him that I do not like the man he has become and that I wish I had my H back. It really sinks in after these conversations we have. It really makes him think about what he will miss. I have also in the past 4 days told him to go be with OW if he thinks that is what he needs. I dont want him to, but hey, I am not a doormat. If he loves her so dam* much, go follow her. But dont expect me to be waiting. For some reason he just doesn't understand why I wont wait for him if he goes back to her! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I love this board. I love coming here and I DO use every bit of advice I get from here. BUT, I must be able to LB somewhere...and if it is not here, then I cant do it anywhere. Today, H seems in good spirits. He is calm and loving. I am much better today...of course I had to start traking my Xanax again! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

thanks for all you guys' support! couldn't make it without you! Really!

Mom,

Glad for Redhat's clarification on his observations of your Plan A behavior. I only had your own observations of your mental and emotional state, especially in the first week of him coming out of the fog.

Mom - I still recommend the two books by don Miguel Ruiz, for the simple reason that understanding the dance you're in - the dream of h*ll - as Ruiz would put it, is something you don't have to continue in - and you can change out of the dream, without your husband choosing to do anything differently.

I consider Ruiz's concepts to be essential mental-emotional state building exercises, as compared to body building - for marriage building, advanced level.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I dont know what is stopping me from going to the nursing home. For one thing, he is only there one hour a week. I cant go into the back where the patients are so I would have to stay in the front. Also, I am probably embarrassed a bit. it would be like, yea, here is my wife, now what do I do.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In places I've worked in the past, sometimes guys would bring in a big tray of breakfast burritos and say "My wife wanted me to bring these to y'all" or maybe someone would bring in 3/4 of a birthday cake and say "My husbands B-day was this weekend and we really don't need all this sugar."

Maybe you could send treats to the staff (yeah, I know - they're the enemy!) via your H this month, and then again in June, and then in July go with him and deliver the treats yourself.

Or... since it's going to be summer vacation soon, perhaps you *and the boys* could accompany Dad and just kind of hang around waiting to go to the zoo, or the movies, or some other family outing.

Sure would be uncomfortable, but it'd put your human face out there and show them you're not some monster. I can't think of anything that would change the staff's allegiance quicker than seeing Dad act loving toward you in front of them.

Thanks! I will look into those two books! TH, I have also thought about sending in some treats, but that would look awfully funny...Why is DR WH's wife all the sudden sending in treats. Also, I am not going to be ridiculed and made fun of behind my back by these nasty woman. I think a near future visit with WH is in our plans!

Last night WH worked in the ER. He has been really good about calling me...One of my EN right now and it is also for him to earn back his honesty. Well, he did not call me AT ALL last night. Before it wouldn't have bothered me. But now, oh boy. I promised myself I would not call him anymore if this happened. So he didnn't call me until 8:30 on my CELL PHONE. He knows I am at home until 9:15 when I take the kids to school. He leaves me a msg on cell. "hi honey, I am on my way to...then I am going to...I had a 3 y/o come in with a code at 5:00 this morning and I had to intibate her...that was not good...remember our POJA agreement for today, we are taking my car into Derek's...ok, bye" I felt better after the msg...but still not good.

oops, will finish later, he is home

False alarm...but must hurry now. OK, so I called him back he doesnt' anser phone, I leave msg. he never calls me back. I called him at about 11:00 or so doesn't answer, page him, he calls back...says I am leaving...Can we take my car at such and such and you can pick me up. This is an hour trip, that is why we conflict on this so much. I said "well, I ahve a "tea" at 1:00 with DS3 for MOTHERS DAY and then I must pick kids up, etc, etc" I told him about the tea, but of course he forgot about it. Another one of my big EN's is for him to remember MY schedule. But he nevre does. OK, so we talked for a few and I said it...UGH...I said

me: you never calle dme last night
H: I know, I forgot

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
me: you forgot...or you just didn't want to
H:

MOM, congradulation! You are working on POJA. Don't expect it to be perfect now.

You know my story, there is no such thing exists in WH's world. He said Dr. Harley is good at making up stories and rules. I don't want to tell Dr. Harley as an insult.

well, as you probably figured it out, H came home as I was typing last entry...will continue tonight after he goes to bed. going to work on dinner..Second night in a row <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Last night was a big hit! Pad Thai! and spring rolls! It was really good too! we love that Thai food! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I will try to finish this now, H is taking a nap! Here is how our conversation went..

me: you never calle dme last night
H: I know, I forgot
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

me: you forgot...or you just didn't want to
H: ummm, no I forgot
me: this is why I get into these moods cuz you dont honor my requests for calls, etc...
H: well, I was in the ER
me: so you say
H: you can call over there, I saw...
me: I believe you were there, but my mind wonders when I dont hear from you
H: Ok, Ok...I'll talk to you later

I go to the grocery store...I get home and he is not home yet. I wonder again. I keep thinking in my mind "it is always about HIM. He wants ME to go do this car thing, but he can never give me any of MY EN's. He cant remember squat. Matter of fact, I must remind him of Mothers day, or he wont do anything and I am not going to remind him. He is going to be out of town anyway...didn't ever run it by me...BIG POJA, but this was a few weeks ago.

When I get home I think of how I am going to act/react when he does come home. He was fine...in a good mood. I just told him that I WISH I didn't care so much...I WISH that I could just blow off him NOT calling me for once. Before A, I couldn't care less, but now I need to know. I need to hear from him. I WISH that I didn't love him so much that it wouldn't matter. But I do. He understood, so he says and hugged me. We agreed that I would meet him at Dereks after my "tea".

I picked him up and he was ok. I just dont understand. he says he wants to work on the marriage...Is he just staying here and "acting" cuz he is afraid of being alone? I cant tell what he wants. He is just obvlivious to it all. One thing that drove me nuts before A...he was in his own little world all the time. Never here or there. Only cared about himself. I am not oging to live that way for the rest of my life. How long do I give him to change and start meeting my needs?

Mom, have you read the book "After the Affair?" There are a couple of pages in the book that talk about the narcissistic personality, and the difficulty in recovering with that type of person. My H read this book right after d-day and was concerned he was a narcissist, because at times he has had these tendencies. Anyway, you might want to read this and see what you think. I'm not saying D2 is a narcissist, but he sure displays a lot of "me" behavior. Take care! CV