Well, its been ages since I have even been in this site. Sure thought we had made some great strides in the last year or so. We have been getting along wonderfully...but as he says..its a 'polite' marriage now.

He laid a bombshell on me the other day, though. He said he was looking for an apartment! He said the ONLY way I will begin to miss him and perhaps want him, is for him to leave for awhile. He wants the 'perpetual honeymoon' and we have been married for nearly 20 years and have 4 teens in the house! I don't think that would ever be possible!

We have sex about once every other month, I'd say. He says its not very good though, he thinks that I'm 'not there.' I'm trying though.

Anyway... we have a long history of things... he was verbally abusive...i had an A...we went to counselling for a year...found out all along that HE was having an A also... stopped the counselling and basically made a commitment (I thought) to stick it out and to make this work. Things have been sooo much better...at least I thought so. He said, its because I get what I want out of him...help with the kids, help with the money, etc..but I don't want to do 'my part' and have sex.

Almost feel like its blackmail or something, I dunno...I don't want to lose him, but this just seems so sudden.

Also, in the past few years he has made some business decisions (against my better judgement, I asked him NOT to do these things and he said I didnt trust him) which has left us deeply in debt..so that puts a strain on things as well. IF he chooses to leave....MY resentment is going to build up knowing that we are going in deeper and deeper because of this. I truly believe it will be the end of us if he leaves. (If money was not an option, then MAYBE leaving for a bit MIGHT be an option, not sure.)

I'd appreciate any comments or suggestions, etc.

TL

I guess it was your topic that made me look.

I don't know why people think that seperation will make their marriage better. It would seem to me that unless someone was being abused in some way and it wasn't safe for the couple to be together that seperation would not offer any improvement in the relationship. Maybe it would be worth a poll to see if there are people out there whose marriages improved because of a seperation.

I'd say that you and your H haven't dealt with some major issues, sex and finances, and you should put yourselves back into counseling. I have gone back to IC several times in my adult life and each time I return I feel that I had left IC too early. As I looked back at myself I made some improvements but I really didn't "finish" what I had begun. Now I am in IC and I want to at least try to make sure that I have really settled the issues in my mind before I "graduate".

I agree with you that your H is being unrealistic in his expectations. You don't need to answer to me, or anyone else for that matter, but would you say there was a time when the sex was great or has it always been "so so"? Again if it is the later then I think you shoould look at what is realistic for the two of you. Remember POJA? I think that it could apply to sex too. If it is once every other month then maybe once per month might be reasonable.

As a married couple I think we need to be together with our financial decsions, not that we are millionaires. But we jepordize our marriage when we add the pressure of debt. We cannot focus on eachother or our families if we are consumed with the bills we have to pay.

My vote is for a good MC before seperation.
H

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TuffLuvForMe:
<strong>

We have sex about once every other month, I'd say. He says its not very good though, he thinks that I'm 'not there.' I'm trying though.

He said, its because I get what I want out of him...help with the kids, help with the money, etc..but I don't want to do 'my part' and have sex.

Almost feel like its blackmail or something, I dunno...I don't want to lose him, but this just seems so sudden.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Were you willing to meet his need for SF? Why did you only have sex every other month?

<small>[ May 04, 2004, 10:30 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

Thanks for the quick replies. MC would seem like a good option at this point.. I just know it will make me squirm like before... and I suppose it shouldnt make me do that.

As far as your question...'was i willing to meet his SF need?' I suppose I didnt meet it enough to satisfy him. Perhaps my heart hasn't been in it....how do you put your heart into it?

TuffLuv, what does your heart have to do with it? Are you saying you will only meet his needs if your "heart is in it?" Is it ok if he only meets the needs of yours that he likes and agrees with?

SF is a top need with many people. When a person's needs are not met, they fall out of love. No wonder he is leaving.

What was he supposed to do about his sex drive?

Well, sex is a bit different...I cant just DO IT without it meaning something...I mean, I can't just fake it. Ok, thanks for your comments.. guess we are just different.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TuffLuvForMe:
<strong> Well, sex is a bit different...I cant just DO IT without it meaning something...I mean, I can't just fake it. Ok, thanks for your comments.. guess we are just different. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So, it's ok if he doesn't meet your needs if he doesn't "feel like it?" It is ok if he doesn't go to work and earn a living if he "doesn't feel like it?" Maybe he also doesn't have to help around the house because he "isn't into it?"
Is it ok if he doesn't provide domestic support when he "doesn't feel like it?" Is it ok if he is no longer affectionate because he "isn't into it?"

I don't see that you view this as a 2 way street at all. You expect him to do certain things yet you aren't willing to contribute anything.

Your H was right when he said:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He said, its because I get what I want out of him...help with the kids, help with the money, etc..but I don't want to do 'my part' and have sex.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And I will ask again, what is he supposed to do about his need for his sex? Where does he go to get this need met since you refuse?

Wouldn't he be crazy to stay in a marriage where his spouse knew his top need but REFUSED to meet it?

So, it's "blackmail" when he wants his needs met. What is it when you want your needs met?

I agree with MelodyLane 100%.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ok, thanks for your comments.. guess we are just different.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, I guess you are just being incredibly selfish unless there is more to the story.

Is sex painful for you?
Does he not know how to get you aroused?
Does he have ED or premature ejaculation problems?

i.e. is it just that you're not willing to meet one of his top ENs or is there something else that needs to be addressed?

Regarding the finances, you guys need to review POJA. You both have to be enthusiastic about the financial decisions you make.

Nope, didnt say any of that. (You are putting words in my mouth..and rather harshly.) I do plenty of other things to satisfy his needs... he does things as well.

We DO have sex... (didnt say that I keep it from him), its just NOT to his satisfaction. Its never enough, and never up to his standards, in his estimation.

You said... "NO wonder he is leaving." Thanks...didn't appreciate that. But, I did ask for opinions, so guess I can't always like the ones I get.


As far as 'heart'....i think "heart" has EVERYTHING to do with sex. You don't???? I can't just go through the motions...well, I can, but he knows that i'm doing just that. Of course, he doesnt have to 'feel like' going to work, doing chores, etc....we ALL do those things when we don't 'feel' like it. BUT, I think sex is different. Sex involves emotions and closeness and a connection. Cant believe you are comparing some of these things.

Comments from anyone else???? I'd like to know if others have this same opinion.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TuffLuvForMe:
Nope, didnt say any of that. (You are putting words in my mouth..and rather harshly.) I do plenty of other things to satisfy his needs... he does things as well. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He doesn't want "other things," he wants to have sex more than every other month and you have made it clear that you are not willing to meet that need.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We DO have sex... (didnt say that I keep it from him), its just NOT to his satisfaction. Its never enough, and never up to his standards, in his estimation.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Then what are you doing to satisfy him? Why hasn't this changed if he has told you it is not enough? I don't know many men who would be satisfied with sex 6 times a year so I can certainly see his disappointment.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As far as 'heart'....i think "heart" has EVERYTHING to do with sex. You don't???? I can't just go through the motions...well, I can, but he knows that i'm doing just that. Of course, he doesnt have to 'feel like' going to work, doing chores, etc....we ALL do those things when we don't 'feel' like it. BUT, I think sex is different. Sex involves emotions and closeness and a connection. Cant believe you are comparing some of these things.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of course they are comparable, they are ALL emotional needs. Do you think your H "feels" like being affectionate to you every time? Probably not, but he goes through the motions to make you happy. You won't even do that for him.

People do things every day they don't "feel" like doing. Sitting around waiting for a "feeling" to hit you out of the blue does nothing to help him. You need to "get" yourself into it.

And I ask again, where is he supposed to go to get this met? If you refuse to meet it, he has 3 options: 1. self gratification, 2. a mistress, or 3. leave the marriage.

I view the last option as the most honorable option and I suspect that might be what he is doing. Much better to leave the marriage with a spouse that refuses to meet you needs and start anew with someone who WILL. And there are lots out there who will.

<small>[ May 04, 2004, 11:37 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

Let's turn the tables here, TuffLuv and see how this looks if we reverse the roles.

Lets say he refuses to meet your needs. He quits his job because he doesn't "feel" like working, he quits helping around the house because he "isn't into it," and stops being affectionate.

Should we take him seriously when he comes here and cries that you are "blackmailing" him because you DEMAND that he go to work, show affection, and help around the house?

Or should we kick him in the [censored] and tell him to quit being so selfish?

Why do I suspect that you would be here telling us how you "threw the bum out" if he pulled the same stunt?

<small>[ May 04, 2004, 11:44 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

Hmmm, I posted on here to try to hash out some of my feelings... NOT to get sandblasted! Now I remember why I bowed out of here the last time.. and I see the same cliques are still around as well, while others just get ignored.

I truly hope this discussion forum helps you guys... I know we are all just searching for answers... maybe I will just read and be silent again for awhile...sheeeesh!

Interesting that you said those things. He WAS out of work for a year...then, after a year of ME supporting us, he began a business which threw us into debt to the tune of about $50k, and before that he 'invested' in some vending machines that cost us $12k...which we have received about $2k back in the 2 yrs we have had them. Now he has a job that he likes, thank goodness, but it isnt bringing in the amount of money he used to make...but money isnt everything, right?

Well, with all of this...i have tried to be supportive. He IS a good man and I love him... maybe I just have some 'issues'...ya think??!?

BUT, contrary to your thoughts, I have NOT THROWN the bum out! I have been there for him... for the most part.

I know it might be hard to hear, but it is the truth, TufLuv. It would be so much easier to just tell you what you want to hear, but it wouldn't be very compassionate. I am not telling you this to be mean, but to help you see the truth in your situation. And frankly, you need a major 2X4, not an atta girl for mistreating your H.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TuffLuvForMe:
<strong> Interesting that you said those things. He WAS out of work for a year...then, after a year of ME supporting us, he began a business which threw us into debt to the tune of about $50k, and before that he 'invested' in some vending machines that cost us $12k...which we have received about $2k back in the 2 yrs we have had them. Now he has a job that he likes, thank goodness, but it isnt bringing in the amount of money he used to make...but money isnt everything, right?

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">See, you have the ability to meet this need, but WON'T. There is a huge difference. He probably doesn't have the opportunity to earn more money right now or he would. You have the opportunity and the ability to meet his SF need and WON'T.

ok TuffLuv, I am putting away the 2X4. What are you willing to do to save your marriage? What changes would you make in order to meet his needs so he doesn't feel like he's living with his sister?

Have you read His Needs/Her Needs?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> As far as your question...'was i willing to meet his SF need?' I suppose I didnt meet it enough to satisfy him. Perhaps my heart hasn't been in it....how do you put your heart into it?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm one of those crazy guys that believes that I have to love the person that I am having sex with, so I can empathize with you here. On the flip side however, you cannot expect your H to stay in a sexless M if SF is something that he greatly desires.

It is very valid to expect sex within the M. It's kind of a beni' ya know? And I'm not talking every other month, 6 times a year...there are more holidays than that FCOL.

If you cannot have sex with your H because the R has deteriorated to the extent that you no longer love him in that way then you either need to cut him loose or dedicate yourselves to restoring your relationship.

Sex will not fix the M but once you restore it to a loving relationship it can certainly help to bind the M.

Being deprived of SF will build resentment and drain a Love Bank in a hurry. What your H may be doing is in a sense, Plan B'ing you...limiting his contact in an effort to preserve what love he may have left for you.

I suggest that you both sit down and find out what's broken and decide how to fix it. Read up on the concept of POJA. You may find it very helpful, especially in the finance department where you are also poles apart.

Good Luck

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> As far as 'heart'....i think "heart" has EVERYTHING to do with sex. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Again, I fully agree. Your heart was in it once upon a time...why isn't it now? You should be asking yourself questions like this and trying to rectify the situation. What caused you not to love him in this way any longer?

Sit down with him and talk about it. Communication is key. Maybe the two of you need to start dating again. Reintroduce romance to the M. Take some one on one time away from the kids. Don't be ever be complacent in your M. Just because you are OK with the way the M is going doesn't mean your H/W is.

Thanks for the replies. ba109...I'm glad someone can relate somewhat to how I feel.

He is now wanting to try counselling again... instead of just moving out. The sad thing is...I really LOVE this man...but I suppose its more like a brother. For some reason, it is just ICKY to try to make love to him...is that weird??????? I'm more of a MOTHER and CARETAKER and COOK and FRIEND than a sexkitten... does that sound strange too?

I know that counselling with my H would consist of me squirming..not wanting to hurt his feelings while the therapist digs deep to find out WHY i don't wanna have the sex with him.

Sooo, all in all, its not fair to my H. And...like MelodyLane asked..."how is my H supposed to get his SF"????

Any way past all of this????

MelodyLane....put the 2x4's away! Hmmmm, I did think alot about what you said tho... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />