</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TuffLuvForMe:
<strong> I know that counselling with my H would consist of me squirming..not wanting to hurt his feelings while the therapist digs deep to find out WHY i don't wanna have the sex with him. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hi Tuf,

Dig no deeper. I was in your exact same situation. I felt NOTHING for my husband. We were roomates. The thought of him touching me nearly made me puke (and this was pre-As, mind you).

But it hadn't always been that way. Then again, when things were good he wasn't TREATING me like a roommate, a mother, a maid, etc.... Funny how those two things correlated.

And I, too, was so afraid of HURTING his feelings, as if he needed my approval so badly that he would crumble to pieces if I showed him the truth.

Well, things changed. I showed him the truth. He didn't crumble. We talked. He got the message about relating to me like we used to, when the sex was easy and natural.

See, he took a few steps back and thought about how to recreate that intimacy between us. I was not hopeful. I was so dead inside that I thought we could never reconnect. But as he treated me with tenderness and caring, I was responding in turn. And we connected. We truly did.

Now sex and romance is a part of our lives again, as is honesty.

~ Snow

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The sad thing is...I really LOVE this man...but I suppose its more like a brother. For some reason, it is just ICKY to try to make love to him...is that weird??????? I'm more of a MOTHER and CARETAKER and COOK and FRIEND than a sexkitten... does that sound strange too?

I know that counselling with my H would consist of me squirming..not wanting to hurt his feelings while the therapist digs deep to find out WHY i don't wanna have the sex with him.

Sooo, all in all, its not fair to my H. And...like MelodyLane asked..."how is my H supposed to get his SF"????
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">While I think some of the others earlier were "employing the 2X4" a bit prematurely, now I think you're coming down to the crux of the matter. I'm sure you shouldn't feel alone; there's a lot of women who find themselves in the same role being "mom" and caretaker to everyone, including their husband. And perhaps there's something about that which inhibits sexual desire- especially if you think he's immature or unwise in his judgement, or that you need to be controlling his business and financial behavior to protect yourself.

But as you so correctly identify, you DO need to figure out why you consider having sex with your husband as "icky". Just being a COOK, CARETAKER, and FRIEND do NOT a marraige make.

I can cook just fine for myself, I don't need a caretaker, and I have lots of friends, NONE of whom I have sex with. You husband may be thinking rather the same way. ;^)

Frankly, there is a parallel with what your husband is doing and good ole fashion plan "B". Is there a chance that this has been an on going issue for so long that you're both stuck and not budging on it? He may believe, correctly or incorrectly, that this is the only way to get you to be aware on a gut level of how important this is to him, by playing a similar level card to you; something that affects your sense of fulfillment or security.

If you don't have health problems, and you aren't a victim of previous SA with unresolved issues, and if you actually do love your husband as you claim, it's hard to see what ground you're standing on.

In reality, I think you don't want to go to counseling over this to not to protect your husband feelings, but to protect yours while you're avoiding squirming in your seat. There's something there which needs to be brought out to daylight between the two of you.

As Dr. Phil would say, it's time to get real with each other. I'm not a believer in emotional divorce while remaining under one roof- true commitment to your vows means facing and working through the problems, not burying them and killing an important part of the relationship because you're past your comfort level.

Good luck with making that happen.

~Jon

Um, well, I too can relate to your situation. I was where you are, too.

I wasn't "into" SF w/my H. I was angry, I was tired, I was busy, I was............YOU fill in the blank. He didn't meet MY needs, so WHY SHOULD I??????????

He complained that we were living as roommates. I didn't "get it." I didn't care. I wasn't going to compromise MY bitterness or anger in order to satisfy HIM! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Have you read my sig line? Do you see where that got me? WE'VE DIVORCED!!!!!!

But so as not to "beat you up" too much, let me just add that I wonder if you have considered the fact that your H's past verbal abuse might have depleted your LB$........

There could be any number of reasons why you and he are not "connecting" emotionally. For me, the abuse would be a real "deal-breaker." Not feeling cherished, loved, safe, etc. could really be working against your entire relationship/intimacy.

Sorry, don't have much to add, but I did want you to be aware of how dangerous this particular mind-set could be to your future R w/H. I personally WISH my H had been willing to try the counselor route before just LEAVING and div'ing without trying to fix what was wrong.

<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

God Bless,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I know that counselling with my H would consist of me squirming..not wanting to hurt his feelings while the therapist digs deep to find out WHY i don't wanna have the sex with him.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A counselor should not have to dig at all. You know why, so tell them.

Keeping it bottled up is leading your H to want to separate from you.

Are really worried about hurting his feelings or are you worried about being under the microscope yourself? It's ok to tell him you don't love him in that way anymore. It's ok to tell him WHY you don't love him that way anymore.

Don't make it a blame game though. Just point out the things in the relationship that have led you to these lackluster feelings for him.

Maybe it was the verbal abuse...maybe it was the lack of romance...maybe it was living with 4 kids...maybe it was a combination of things.

Get down to it and COMMUNICATE with your H. If you are going to dig your heels in and insist on nothing more than bi-monthly sex with him then it's only fair to tell him so, so that he can consider his options.

TuffLuvForMe: I don't post very often but you are having the same problem that my wife and I are having.

She thinks our marriage is great and she tells me she loves me. I can talk to other people and cook my own food but one thing I can not get outside my marriage is sex! She does not want to meet my needs and says sex is not important and maybe it isn't to her. It is important to me and as a man I can't understand how a spouse can love their mate and not want to have sex with them.

I have provided her with a house most women would love to have. I have done all I can to make her happy so she would want to meet my needs. When that didn't work I did a plan A to be the best H I could and she even noticed that but she did not want to have more sex with me.

Well I have been told I am an attractive male and I look young for my age. I feel rejected and unloved? If it is so terrible to have to make love to me then I really don't want to be married to her. What if a man only talked to his wife once every other month or only provided for his family once every other month how would you feel about your H? We males are not women and most of us need the physical love to feel "loved". My wife will not go to counseling either so like your H I am at the breaking point.

If your H is like me he probably feels like a paycheck. Well if she only wants my paycheck then I don't want to provide her with this huge house and all the other things that I have given her. No matter what I do it isn't enough and I am to the point of walking out on her but I have kids and that makes it tough.

A good book that explains how I feel and maybe your Husband is "The proper care and feeding of a Husband" by Dr. Laura.

I have suffered for years and I am to the breaking point and your H may be there too. I never thought I would end my marriage unless she was cheating on me but I was wrong. If she does not want to have sex then I want to move on and not feel the rejections anymore. If your H is a good man you should be very concerned about losing him. I guess you will need to decide if you want to keep him.

Can you please give me some insight on why you want to keep a man that you don't want to have sex with? It may help me try and see my Wifes side of things. I do housework and my goal is to make her happy and she says she is. So why would a woman like yourself want to lose that??

<small>[ December 03, 2004, 01:14 PM: Message edited by: lovemyhubby ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lovemyhubby:
<strong> TuffLuv

DadandHusband

I have to agree it is not fair for you to feel as if you are there just for the paycheck.. You have needs and you do deserve to feel wanted and loved by your wife. I would suggest you seek MC before you get to the point you want to walk out the door though. If she realizes you are very serious maybe some progress will be made through counseling.. Everyone deserves to feel they are loved and part of marriage is sexual fulfillment.. I hope things change for your sake.. Try to talk to her about your feelings.. allow her to express why she feels so disconnected from you and suggest she read this thread..it might help some..

Thinking of you both,
Lmh

Lmh </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LMH:
Thank you for your response, It does help and it is very much appreciated. My Wife flat refuses to go to MC although I agree with you we need it. She does seem very happy but I really have tried to give her a happy life. She tells me she is happy she just has very little drive to have sex. She does get angry when I bring up the subject. If not for my children I would suggest D today.

I guess she does know I love her and she does not have a fear of losing me but she should. I am tired of trying to make her happy and being rejected. She has a huge nice home and I help out with everything. I am not perfect but I have busted my butt for her and am very tired.

I just don't see a reason to be married to someone that doesn't want sex. I guess most women would see a problem if they were being deprived of conversation and support from their H but some do not have a problem depriving him of SF. It gets to the point I want to deprive her of conversation and financial support but I am not there yet.

TuffLuvForMe- I keep hearing from TV that a good man is hard to find. That is insulting to males when you really think about it. Can you imagine the uproar if males always said that a "Good woman is hard to find?" If your H is a good man you need to take steps to keep him. It sounds like he is at the point that I am.

I do wish you luck.

Hi, Tuff Love....

I've been reading posts on this forum for some time and have never posted, however, your post touched me deeply. I must admit that I've been taken aback by some of the cruel, heartless and callous remarks hurled at you when it appears you were only asking for help. I hardly think that heaping more guilt on you and bulleting you with accusations, hypotheses and humiliating questions is going to do much to help. IMHO, anyway...

But, to be fair, let's be honest here. You say you find sex with your H to be undesirable. Completely understandable, given the circumstances you've outlined. Seems you have both had A's and are attempting to rebuild your M. Commendable.

The real question here is whether you find sex undesirable or sex with your H undesirable? My guess is that is the latter that disturbs you. Lupolady, IMO, hit on some key areas that I agree you need to sort through.

I would submit that you do not feel safe and secure with your H any longer. Make no mistake, faking desire on your part isn't going to work, either... at least not for long.

"DadandHusband" recommended reading Dr. Laura's "Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands". I strongly advise against this! This book will heap only more guilt upon you. It is, in essence, a woman-bashing piece and not the kind of empathy or help you (or any woman, for that matter) needs.

Yes, men need sex. Yes, men seperate sex from affection often...but, not always. Bottom line is, men need to feel as though they are desired by their wives. Laying like a cold fish or faking arousal will be revealed for the shallow efforts they are and will only make things worse!

The question you really need to ask yourself is why your H doesn't do it for you anymore? Has he become less attractive? Does he humiliate you? Does he make you feel as though YOU are not a desirable woman? If so, you need to address these issues with him point blank, either through MC or one-on-one.

Sex is a wonderful tool of intimacy...it is the only act of intimacy shared exclusively between H and W. It cannot be imitated by co-workers, children or relatives. We are at our most vulnerable and most trusting when engaged in lovemaking. This holds true for men, perhaps even more so, than women. Knowing this, I have always advocated that women should see sex as a stress- relieving activity rather than a stress- inducing one. Perhaps you need to look at your H in a different light. Maybe, you need to consider (in a healthy way) using him to satisfy you. Your H should be your oasis...your sanctuary. Ever heard the song " Sexual Healing? There is a world of truth to that! I'd almost bet that if you adopted an attitude of using your husband to heal your stress, and using his ability to provide sexual intimacy as a mechanism to help you unwind, you would take a great deal of pressure off of yourself and would feel more relaxed during sex. I'd also be willing to bet that he would not be the least bit offended if you told him this. It would probably boost his esteem if you told him that he is the only person in the world who can make you feel whole after the rest of the world has broken you into pieces.

Certainly, this won't be accomplished overnight and certainly, you must be willing to try to be his "oasis", too.

Anyway, it's something to consider. I truly wish you and your H success.

With humble regards,
Kyrian

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Kyrian:
<strong> Hi, Tuff Love....

"DadandHusband" recommended reading Dr. Laura's "Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands". I strongly advise against this! This book will heap only more guilt upon you. It is, in essence, a woman-bashing piece and not the kind of empathy or help you (or any woman, for that matter) needs.

Kyrian </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Kyrian:
You are entitled to your opinion but I think it is a good idea to read different books to help a marriage.

I have read several books three of them my wife bought to bring desire back into the marriage. My Wife has responded very well lately to the Dr. Laura book that she has been reading and I have also read it.

Since I have read the Dr. Laura book I can say it is right on when it talks about men and how simple most of us are and what makes us happy. I also read books that are probably anti-male but they don't make me feel worse, it is the only way sometimes to understand the opposite sex.

As negative as I have been with my wife I am finally seeing improvement in her drive and her attitude. I am not saying she follows every word in the Dr. Laura book but at least she now understands why sex is important to me. She says she likes the book but has not said it is anti-female. I would read any book my wife wanted if it would help me understand women and help our marriage.

Tuff Love wants to save her M as I do. It won't get done if we can't empathize with our spouses. I am sure there are other books but the point is she needs to read up on males and what makes them happy. I am a very devoted husband and I recently was almost to the same point as her H. My W says she is very happy and loves me very much as I do her. She has started the last few nights to have made changes and I like them <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> She has also noticed that in return I have done things for her that she is very happy about.

Thanks for reading and Good luck to all.

I don't think Kyrian has the slightest notion what she is talking about when she condemns Dr Laura's most excellent book as "woman-bashing." It is apparent she hasn't even read it because there is no "woman bashing" in the book. I would recommend this excellent book to any woman who really cares about her H and wants to have a great marriage.

<small>[ May 07, 2004, 01:24 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

MelodyLane:

Thank you for you input on the Dr. Laura book. I have found the Dr. Laura book to be very accurate on what makes men happy. If the goal of the person here is to find out what men want and need then it is the best book I ever read.

My wife asked me if it was accurate on what men need. I told her that it couldn't be more accurate if I wrote it myself. She told me that men must be more complex then that and I told her we are not! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

My wife is almost through it and she has made some changes that she had been unwilling to make before reading it. Last night she told me she didn't realize how important SF and appreciation were to men. She also told me she was sorry because she is very happy and does not want to lose what she has.

I have also done some things for her in the last few days that she wanted done since she is reaching out.

I have tried to follow the principles at this website to make my marriage better. My W seemed to not care about anything since I was trying to meet her needs. A person can only do that for so long before they decide to give up.

I have the expectation that if I am a good H my wife will want to make me happy. I think part of her problem is that she didn't know what would make me happy and now thanks to the book she can see it in black and white and she now sees I will try and give her the world in return for her meeting my needs.

<small>[ December 03, 2004, 01:16 PM: Message edited by: lovemyhubby ]</small>

Lmh:

Thank you for your kind words. I do appreciate them!

I was so frustrated with my W because I would do things for her and I was never getting a response. Things have changed lately and I am going to show her that she will also benefit since she has started to meet my needs of appreciation and SF. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Have a good weekend and again thank you for your kind words.