Well my W did come over tonight and rang the doorbell several times. She remembered the damn code to the garage door and the house door was unlocked so in she comes. What a terrible job I did I must have a LB fog over me that can be seen all around. She dropped off these quicky DV papers. I'm not going to do that. She tells me she doesn't feel anything for me which sucks so I guess my Plan B wasn't working. I think I'm done with this BS let her have her DV and just move on. I told her I don't even know who you are anymore your not the sensitive careing person I married. I told her how dissapointed I was in her that she didn't even make an effort to save our M. I asked her to give me 90 days to see if we could work things out and if we didn't that we would get a DV and I wouldn't contest it, so now she's mad and is wondering how long I'm going to hold on to hope so she can get her DV. She also spewed some BS about it was she was feeling like this for 90 days before she moved out and I was like well I had no clue that we had problems and you didn't tell me so she considers that 90 days the time that we worked on our M now how the hell does that work out when she didn't even tell me that there were problems, and she wasn't even really giving. I asked if she thought that I would use the affair for ammunition down the road and she said yes. I can see her point about this since I keep on bringing up the Las Vegas trip and her and OM being together. I told her how she could build up the trust by brainstorming ways to do it, and she says "and you get off scott free and have to do nothing" I was like of course not everything you have to do I would do also so you could see how much I care about you and that you can trust me. It is such a bad night tonight I didn't even want to talk to her and it just happened. I told her thanks for respecting my boundries by disreguarding the letter I wrote to you. I asked her if she wanted to have those feelings when you first fall in love with someone for the rest of her life, I got no response. I told her the story about how when I was in the Navy and had relationships that they went away because of distance, and about how I sat in my room one night and thought for a while about her and our relationship. I came to the conclusion that I didn't want to wonder about her and I and I wanted to see where our relationship went. So I got out of the Navy to spend my life with her. She says you probobly blame me for that too, I told her no there was no blame there just Love that's all just love. I did so much wrong tonight I have to talk to Jennifer in a half hour and I'm a mess. She says she's trying to get the DV going so she doesn't hurt me anymore, I told her if you don't want to hurt me anymore come home and work on our marriage because that's the only way I won't be hurt by what has happened. She kept on saying see you keep on bringing up Vegas and then how do you expect me to belive you that you wouldn't use the affair as ammo if we got back together. I said well we're not working on our M right now and I hurt and have so many emotions running around right now it's hard not to LB. I told her this is why I don't want to talk to you because all I do is make you mad at me and push you away. There was one point where we started talking about our M and working on it and she said if you don't talk to me how can we work on our M? I said like I have a snowballs chance in hell to do that W because you live with OM and work with OM what chance do I have. I told her too much I think I don't know it doesn't look good. I told her to think about the things I said which she won't I don't know if this is worth it anymore. I gave her a key so she could get her stuff out whenever I don't know if this was wise or not. Hell I don't even know what I'm doing anymore I was feeling so good about myself now it's back to square one and it's all her fault becuase she don't respect my wishes.

Dam Tinman,

I am sorry about your meeting.I was actually going to post to you on the Plan B thread to make sure that you pretended that you're not home if WW drops by but who knew about the unlocked door.UGH.

There wasn't much positive dicussion going on during this interaction for sure but you don't have to sign any D papers,in fact it was suggested here before that you could "accidentally" lose them.Drag your feet,stall,whatever you need to do to stop the steamroller.Of course your WW doesn't "feel" anything for you if she is in contact with OM.Plan B was working...for you.

I wouldn't have given WW the key to house but too late.Let her do the dirty work of getting all her things if that's what she wants.Do the 180 list now,that would be my suggestion.

I am sorry this happened to you.It's not over till it's over though.I hope you get some support from Jennifer.Let us know how it went.

O

I am praying for you. The most damage done to me, more than the A, more than d-day, was done when I allowed WH in after starting Plan B. I know how bad this sucks. I am thinking of you often. Hang in there. It was EXTREME fog talk. And she was pissed that she was losing control!

Ok feeling a little better Jennifer said I did a good job of planting seeds. I told my W a few things from SAA like. If she would like to have that first time you fall in love with someone good feeling for the rest of her life and I would be willing to give that to her and I would love to get the same feelings for her again. Also about not arguing and ways to build up the trust again by brainstorming ways to do it. Jennifer said I did such a good job because when your in that situation it could have gotten more volitile then it was in fact she said she was proud of the way I handled myself. So I'm feeling a little better now then I was before. So maybe I didn't do so bad. It will probobly take me a couple of days to recover to where I was before so you guys might have to bear with me for that time.

Tin,

i am so sorry to hear this happen to you. but i agree with your mc, you did a great job.

she broke your plan b. don't blame yourself for a second. we shouldn't have to lock our doors and cut ourselves out of life because of our ws's. she deserved what she got from you and probably more. but i think that you handled it well.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hang in there. It was EXTREME fog talk. And she was pissed that she was losing control! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree completely.

Hang in there, i may not get back on here till late as i will be watching over some 5th graders for the day. (hmm they kind of remind me of my h! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

<small>[ May 05, 2004, 01:16 AM: Message edited by: usthree ]</small>

Tinny,

I know it is hard. I think you did the best you can do. Listen to O, stall everything. Go on vacation come home and the papers gotten eaten by the dog? Who knows just hold on. Change the locks on the door.

I think you did great with all those emotions running through you. It is hard not to LB and all of that when you feel all that stuff rumbling inside of you. Hope you are having a better day now.

HINY

Hey look at the bright side...your are one of us now... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Everyone fell off the wagon. So don't feel bad. You are strong.

Beside you didnt actually break your plan. She did.

Tinman -

Ooops, another fall off the Plan B wagon. Pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and get right back on that wagon. You will do just fine.

I was so upset last night that I just read my post again. There were no DV papers just info on like one of those cheap internet $197.00 DV. No actual papers. She doesn't want to do it the expensive way and she says she doesn't know how hard I'm going to make this on her. Oh well.

Tinman,

What a total bummer of an evening.

Octobergirl is right - Plan B has been working (for you). You have been getting so strong. This interaction set you back, for sure, and that shows how much Plan B is protecting you from her poision.

Yes your frustration came through in what you said to her but Jennifer wouldn't candy-coat something to make you feel better. If she says you handled it well and planted seeds, then you should feel really proud of yourself - especially considering that this was a "surprise attack" on her part and you didn't have an opportunity to mentally prepare.

<small>[ May 05, 2004, 07:47 AM: Message edited by: turtlehead ]</small>

Good Morning TM,

I am glad you are feeling a bit better after the talk with Jennifer.I am also glad there are no actual D papers afterall.But now you have to go back to dark and protect yourself.

Yes you may have planted more seeds of MB perhaps but your WW knows full well what's at stake and what she needs to do to come back and make the marriage better.But let it stand now.There isn't any need to review that with her again so take precautions to prevent her from interacting with you.She just got her fix of seeing you and talking with you and now some time has to pass again.

Oh,and toss the D info your WW brought right into that ole trash heap.No need for that yet.

o

<small>[ May 05, 2004, 07:41 AM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

Tinman,

Hang in there, I'm going through a similar situation, H left for 6th time on 4/21 moved back in with OW into townhouse he pays the rent for.

He does not answer phone calls, nor e-mails, has taken all the money and left me with nothing, but still insisits I not file for divorce and if I do not an absolute only limited. His repsonse has always been, don't do anything which is not reversible., but in the meantime he doesn't even speak with me, has completely cut me out of his life.

I feel your pain, it's the hardest thing I have ever encounter in my life., especially when you love someone with all your heart and sole., the pain the cause us makes me wonder who they are and why.

Right now I truley believe THEY don't know who they are or WHAT they want., their lives are so screwed up and in turn they screw up ours.

I will do as everyone has suggested, stall, wait, give it more time. I have filed for divorce and wonder now should I have done this, but I can't wait forever and I am getting no response from him on anything.

Life is difficult, but it will improve and we will become stronger in the end., keep the positive attitude and keep yourself busy.

BS(me) 44
H 47
M 22 years
2 boys 18 & 16

Angel w/no wings

Tinman -

Don't worry about it, just back to the instrument panel. Your wife is still in the fog, but I think it was hopeful that she was discussing things with you.

I was expecting her to ambush you. Isn't it almost funny that as soon as you went into Plan B, she figured out a way to see you?

OH TINMAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i only have computer access at work so i wasn't able to read the post until just now. what i'm going to say is just going to be a repeat but while i was reading your post (before i read any of the replies) i was also thinking of how proud i was of YOU!!!!!!!!!! she is the one that broke plan B not you! you were ambushed and she did this on purpose. everything she does has everything to do with what she is feeling about herself and the situation. my H has also brought up the fact that he gave me time, years and years, to get a clue or have my own awakening but like you HOW WERE WE SUPPOSED TO KNOW IF THEY DIDN'T TELL US!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you were able to tie in a lot of things that you have learned and convey those things to her. even now you are able to look at the interaction last night and still continue to learn. the only thing that i would suggest at this point is to still do more counseling w/jennifer, to try and prepare for things like this, and keep you focused on your goal which is still to rebuild your M. i didn't think waiting so long to talk to her again was ideal but none of us are in an ideal situation and how were you supposed to know that your W was go ing to blitz-krieg you. so if you can afford it continue to do it maybe every other week.

hope you are getting all the positive vibes we are all sending you and i wish you continued strength and prayers to you.

Tinman - you've done a good job.

She's building that fortress mentality that is necessary for her to proceed towards divorce. How much circular logic can you identify in her arguments? Plenty, huh?

I suggest you not contest divorce proceedings, but document in the papers that you prefered to salvage the marriage despite her adultery. Then let her proceed with it. She is hell bent on going thru with it.

You have no children and you're young. You can end this soon and continue your life with a clear conscience and with no guilt.

JMHO

WAT

Tinman,

I'm so sorry that you are hurting, but I will agree with Jennifer and all the others who have posted here. YOU did very well. You did a great job on Plan B and she is the one who broke it. Don't you blame yourself. She needed to see you and she threw all this stuff (internet DV crap) at you to get a reaction from you. You did very well and I don't really think that you LBed at all. So, don't you worry. Dust yourself off and go right back into Plan B. Don't listen to her stuff.

You are a great guy!

Kati

Octobergirl, Christy, usthree, HINY, zizzy, believer, turtlehead, Angel, RR, WAT, and Kati

Thank you all so much for the support, and the great advice, I almost didn't go to work today but like everyone said I need to pick myself up and dust myself off and go dark again.

WAT I hear what you are saying and I wonder if your right. I guess I will have to think on this later because I'm not in the right mindset right now. I looked at my W yesterday and she didn't even look as beautiful to me as I remember her being.

RR Jennifer is the one who tells me to wait 3 to 4 weeks to talk to her again so she can get an update as to what has been going on.

Yes I did throw those papers my W gave me right into the trash.

I will think on things today at work and see how I feel.

One other thing when I asked her if she thought I would use the A for ammunition later if we wanted to recover our M she started crying at this point and said anyone would. I told my wife I'm not anyone I'm the man that loves you. So when she cries at stuff like this I don't know if it's a good sign or not, I always take it as a good sign I don't know why. Am I looking to much into this? I don't know. Well off to work I go. Thanks again for the support.

i see your point about the locks and the olive branch analagy from your other thread and you're probably right about it's a moot point to do it now.

again, i'm not an expert but and i guess as long as you feel comfortable and come here then you are doing well. however, i still question why you have to wait 3-4 weeks between counseling sessions. every time i talk to SH he wants an update since the last time we talked and this takes up a good portion of our session. no matter what plan you are in or what amount of time goes by you still need to work on yourself and you have been. if you truly don't feel that you need more immediate professional feedback specific to your situation then that is okay w/me (not that that's what you were waiting for anyway). but i still think you can benefit from IC along your path to what i still feel you want, a rebuilt or new M w/your W. anyone could step in and agree or disagree w/me on this.

so again, just my 2 cents and i'll shut up on the subject for now. hang in there and keep up the good work. prayers to you.

Tinman,

I do think that she feels guilty and bad about causing you so much pain. I think a lot of WS's do, but it is also painful for them to confront the BS and the pain and hurt that they have caused and you know, sometimes it is just easier to run. The only problem is that you cannot run forever and usually the pain catches up sooner or later, even with the WS. Even if she stayed with OM, she would always have to live knowing how much she has hurt the man who she was married to and who loves her so much. It is extremely hard to be hateful and spiteful to someone who shows you love and kindness. That is why I think so many WS's try to be mean to BS's to ease their own guilt.

I'm glad that you decided to go to work. There have been many times, when I just wanted to stay in bad and wallow in my own pity, but then it is always better to get yourself together and continue with your normal routines as much as possible. It certainly helps to take your mind off.

I also thought a lot about what WAT was saying and when you, Tinman, said that you looked at your wife yesterday and for the first time, you didn't find her as beautiful, I have to admit that I have had thoughts like that in the past as well.

One time I talked to a friend of mine about this and I told him how much I love my H and how handsome I think that he is and he told me "But Kati, you are very good-looking as well." and it really hit me. I didn't even consider myself beautiful anymore and for the first time, it really hit me how low my self-esteem had gotten so low that I would accept just the bare minimum that is given to me.

Always keep in mind that you are a good person and you have been a good husband to your wife. We all have faults and we all make mistakes, but there is nothing that you did to deserve this kind of pain.

Take care of yourself!

Kati

Kati that's funny you mention the guilty thing because my wife admits that she feel guilty about what has happened. I was doing some thinking while I was working, it would have been just as easy to mail the information she wanted me to look at, leave it in our mailbox when she came and picked up her mail, or even send me a link over email. I think you guys are right she wanted a Tinman fix, well she should be good for the next three weeks I guess. I was wondering if I should call her and say I'm sorry for some of the things I said last night?