WAT,

Hi across the Potomac! Many members from the DC, MD and VA area here, I noticed...

I have a question regarding the statement below that you posted on SadMarylandLady's thread. I did not want to hijack her thread and that is why I started a new topic.

I'm basically in the same position as SML, only my H has now been in NC (once again....)for about almost two weeks now. But I hear/heard the same exact things from him.

A lot of the frustration in our M was SF. While we had lots of intimacy, sometimes the actual sexual act was very painful for me due to a condition that I had in the past called vaginismus. I was able to overcome all that at the hands of very qualified therapists and doctors here. I know that this time was very difficult on my H and it was so horrible for me as it was not something that I chose to have and had to deal with for quite a while. We have always wanted to have children and due to our SF problems, it was just not possible and since it was a very intimate problem, we never really shared anything like this with friends/family, only the doctors.

My H is quite a flirt and easily attracts women which often made me very uncomfortable, but I think I tolerated most of it because I felt incomplete and I felt that I could not give him what a wife should give her H and I felt that I deserved it. This is also how his EA with OW started, out of a friendship. Of course my common sense now tells me that I did not deserve this, but it is extremely difficult to deal with problems like that. Some of my H's friends sometimes made fun of him, asking him if he was 'shooting blanks' because we had not gotten pregnant. Of course they had no idea what we were going thru, but I know that this was very hard for my H to take. I eventually could not take it anymore and I told him to tell people about my problem because I did not want him to suffer for something that he had no control over. Even though it was very humiliating for me, I did not want him to take the blame.

All of these problems have been resolved for a long time now and we actually have a great sex life now, but unfortunately it did not end the EA with OW. I got very hurt by this because he told her EVERYTHING about me/us, eventhough I do not know her and I have never met her. I was extremely embarrassed.

I'm very self-conscious and I have extremely low-self-esteem. My H also continues to be very flirtacious with other women and one time during a party, he even made out with another woman right in front of my eyes. He was extremely drunk at the time, but seeing him kissing another woman was very painful for me.

Due to all of this I have become very insecure and my husband likes to do a lot of things with the 'boys' - trips, bachelor parties, boys-night-out etc. I feel very insecure about this and it shows and sometimes his friends tease me and pick on my because of this. Nobody ever knew about the EA and all the other women stuff though. Well, a few weeks ago, when my H was out of town, some of his friends threw a party and their wives invited me to come along. During the party, they kept picking on my whether or not I'm gonna 'allow' my H to go on a trip to Europe with them this year or not... It got so bad that I broke out in tears and I told them why I felt so insecure and basically everything just all came out. I think everyone was very surprised and nobody had any idea. I told everything - all about my SF problems, the OW, the EA, everything. I did tell my H when he came back from his trip and I think he's angry with me.

About a week ago, he gave me a beautiful diamond ring which made me so happy and I really want things to get better, but he does not want to discuss the EA or anything and I just want to know what else I can do to make the M better for us. I know that the main obstacle has been removed - the SF issue - but he just doesn't let me in.

I feel that I did something destructive now, but it is so hard to take all the teasing and poking fun at me. I'm not a jealous person at all and in a healthy relationship I do not see any reason at all why people should not be able to do things apart from each other.

He is always holding the past above me and I feel bad that he had to go through this with me for so long, but I did not choose to have this condition and I would not ever wish this on anyone else.

Kati


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by worthatry:

I'll end this by offering that there is one additional thing a BS can do to alter the course of the affair - but I call it "destructive" rather than "constructive" (to separate it from the one and only constructive thing, discussed above). It's to expose the affair to the light of day. But this is NOT part of Plan A and deserves it's own discussion.

WAT [/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

kati, don't want to hijack your thread either but just to say i'm thinking about you and praying for you. love and hugs, RR

Hi Kati - tough living in the DC 'burbs during an election year, huh?

What's the status of the EA? Over? If so, NC letter written and sent?

Re my comments to SadMdLady - I was trying to separate out exposure from Plan A because I believe that we on this forum need to emphasize to newby BSs that they cannot make their WSs end the affair and the affair is merely a symptom of a disease, not the disease itself. The closest a BS can come to ending an affair is via exposure - but that only potentially makes the WS so embarassed or uncomfortable that they choose to end it really against their wishes. I call it destructive because it has no constructive effect on the real disease - a poor marital environment.

Others may not agree with my semantics.

It sounds like your exposure was emotionally spilled out, not as in a planned, controlled act. No matter. If the EA was already over, this exposure obviously didn't have to happen to end it - but perhaps it had value to you to expose something entirely different - the reasons behind the tension in your marriage and your insecurity towards your H's activities. I'll offer that being married to a big flirt would make anybody somewhat insecure and that sort of behavior is very disrespectful, IMHO.

Before I offer any more thoughts, please update me on the status of the EA. Include why you believe it was not a PA - not that it matters for recovery of your marriage, but this explanation/rationale is sometimes revealing in itself.

WAT

Hi WAT,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by worthatry:
<strong> Hi Kati - tough living in the DC 'burbs during an election year, huh?


It definitely is. ;-) Combine that with the Cherry Blossoms...


What's the status of the EA? Over? If so, NC letter written and sent?


The EA is supposedly over. My H sent NC email about two weeks ago. Have not seen any emails/phone calls between them, so I really hope that NC will stay this time.


It sounds like your exposure was emotionally spilled out, not as in a planned, controlled act. No matter. If the EA was already over, this exposure obviously didn't have to happen to end it - but perhaps it had value to you to expose something entirely different - the reasons behind the tension in your marriage and your insecurity towards your H's activities. I'll offer that being married to a big flirt would make anybody somewhat insecure and that sort of behavior is very disrespectful, IMHO.


You are correct. I never planned on this, but it was a tough month with H being gone for 4 weeks on business and then the teasing started and I lost it. I feel very bad about it and I'm not sure if it was a constructive element for my marriage.

Regarding the flirting, it is very hard for me to see this. My H does not think that he is flirting, but all of my girlfriends and even his friends say that he is. I'm not sure why he does it, but I know that he definitely likes the attention. My H is very friendly, very outgoing and he can make a woman feel like she's on cloud nine. That is how he used to make me feel when we first met. It was extreme chemistry between us.


Before I offer any more thoughts, please update me on the status of the EA. Include why you believe it was not a PA - not that it matters for recovery of your marriage, but this explanation/rationale is sometimes revealing in itself.


I have sat at the kitchen table with him and asked him if he ever slept with OW and he always said that he never touched her (no kissing, no sex, nothing). He said that even though there was a bit of chemistry, he would not cross that line. The emails that I found when I found out about the EA, were basically talk about every day stuff and then a lot of ILY's, Miss you, soulmate stuff, we're meant to be together, I will always take care of you etc. OW has had a lot of problems in her life and she likes to get my H's advice. He said that they are very much alike in the way their mind's work and they have a lot in common. I have to admit that I am jealous about this relationship because I'm a lot different than my H as far as interests go. I also grew up in a different country so we have a lot of cultural differences to sort thru which is not always easy in a marriage. I do believe that he did not have a PA with OW, even though it would have not surprised me because of the SF issues in our M. He does/did have an intense emotional connection with her though.

Kati

WAT </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Kati - I certainly validate your anxieties and not-yet-established trust.

I didn't get the chance to experience recovery, so I am not in a place to offer specific advice other than the tried and true MB principles along with recommending joint counseling.

One thing is certain - you two have to disect the marital issues and fix them, otherwise another affair may occur.

The diamond ring is a nice gesture - I hope he was sincere. Do you believe this was motivated, at least in part, by guilt? Even if it was, good! Was this a financial sacrifice for him? Did he forfeit that new plasma TV to do this?

How old is your H? I was a bit of a flirt when I was younger, although the part about "make a woman feel like she's on cloud nine" seemed to not work for me. Now more "mature" - but younger than JL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> - the "thrill" of this for me is long gone. Maybe it's because similarly mature ladies have become immune?

It sounds like you have plenty of reason to be optimistic for a healthier marriage - IF you two seize the opportunity to build from this crisis.

Your H maybe hasn't yet come to appreciate the insecurities you feel from his interactions. At the same time, as you progress, you need to learn to relax and learn to trust. Obviously, this can happen only with mutual support. This is where a good counselor can help.

Does your H visit or post here? It may help and if you dn't already, sharing your writing can foster POJA and radical honesty.

Don't eat too many cicadas. They'll be out any day now.

WAT

WAT,

I'm not sure what more I can do to identify the marital issues and fix them. SF was THE biggest issue and that has been completely resolved and he seems to have no more complaints. He won't do the EN questionnaires, but from carefully talking to him I have found out that one EN that seems to mean a lot to him is admiration. I believe this is where OW may have done a good job. I will try to improve in this area where I have been lacking a bit. Other than that, I'm pretty much at a loss.

We got married 14 years ago when I was only 20 years old and we had NO money. Thru much perseverance, we have both managed to graduate from college and we have successful careers now and we have build a nice home and some assets. This is an accomplishment that we are both very proud of since we leaned on each other for everything and we had no help from anyone. At the time that we got married, we were not able to get rings (other than just small plain gold bands)because we simply didn't have the funds. The reason he gave me the ring is he said that I deserved it because I had been a good wife to him and helped him built a good life and he wanted to show the 'world' that he could give his wife something nice. He does not own a plasma tv or anything, nor has he shown interest in buying one. He would rather buy a new guitar instead or music recording equipment. He is a very talented musician and very creative.

My H is 45 years old, almost 11 years younger than I am. He loves to talk to women and he loves to tell them about himself and he really knows how to compliment a woman. I know many of times, he is just friendly and means well, but women are often very flattered and some more aggressive women (like OW) really take it as an 'invitation' to more...

Honestly, I cannot forsee him ever changing. I think this is just him. However, he can also become pretty jealous whenever he feels that someone is paying attention to me. He loves taking me out and he loves when other guys stare at me, but when they actually make contact, he doesn't like it at all.

I think that you are correct when you say that my H has not yet come to appreciate my insecurities from his behavior, but then I also think that his ego feeds from this. For many years, I have kept quiet thinking that maybe I was crazy or jealous or insecure until other people started commenting on his behavior. That is when I knew that his 'flirting' was not appropriate behavior.

My H does not visit or post here. We had talked about MC before, but due to his high level security clearance with the government, it is probably not possible for him to visit any counselor. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

This is my first cicada season here in the DC area and I'm definitely not looking forward to it. In Spain, we used to have cicadas in certain area's year round. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> They are just gross. The WP commented recently that the diseased ones are going to smell like rotten Limburger cheese. How lovely!

Kati

kati, thinking of you and hope you have a good weekend, prayers to you.

kati, hope you are doing well, prayers to you, RR

^