Normally I post under Just Found Out with the topic "I'm in Denial.. please help", but I thought I would post my question here as well.

I have been suspecting my H of an A for quite a while already. I first became suspicious because of his behavioral changes - angry and mean with me, not talking, saying he's not sure if he's in love w/me, not interested in sex anymore, etc. This all started approximately last October.

I started to snoop. Late February, I found that one of his condoms was missing - after I had been counting them regularly. I confronted him and he denied an A. I decided that maybe I could have been mistaken about the condom. I began a fierce plan A. He did an amazing turnaround after the confrontation. He became more talkative, affectionate, etc. He even suggested a trip to Cancun.

During plan A, I snooped regularly. I checked his miles regularly and found that on his days off, he has been going somewhere for a roundtrip total of approx 47 or 48 miles. (We have different days off) He has been going regularly on his days off. Again I confronted him about the miles (since he always said he did nothing on his days off) and again he denied everything. At first he got angry because I checked his miles, but I apologized and said I wouldn't check up on him anymore (I lied) and it was forgotten.

We just got back from our trip to Cancun. We had a wonderful (and romantic) time. On our first day back, I worked and he didn't. He put 48 miles on his car. Now yesterday, he was off during the day and when I got home I checked the miles, and everything was OK.

Here's my new evidence --- I looked in the garbage can in his bathroom and found two condom wrappers in there that weren't there the day before. I counted his condoms the day before and there were 11 in tact. Now there are 9 in tact and 2 wrappers in the trash can. They were not used on me! There is no way I can be mistaken this time. I am devastated once again.

Here is my question-- can I confront him with this new evidence? If so, how should I confront him?

I would appreciate any advice anyone can give me. Please help!!

I think you need different evidence.

The wrappers are just a repeat. He'll just deny as in the past. But save the wrappers.

Have you considered following him one day? Or hiring a PI to do it?

I'm assuming you've exhausted the usual methods - cell phone bills, etc.

..........in the meantime, the day before his next day off, sneak the condoms outside and find some poison ivy and rub the unopened condom wrappers all over the leaves. (Wear some plastic gloves, of course, when you do this.)

svb

I dunno if this is any good but could you take the day off on his day off... when you wake up that AM say "SURPRISE!!!" I am yours today...pay close attention to his reaction...have some fun stuff planned

idea #2 (I am full of'em) can you confess again your concerns not mentioning the miles or the condoms? Call it "woman's intuition", insecurities or ?, but you need for him to make you feel that you are the one and only and that he can do that by:
*stopping by your work and taking you out to lunch
*calling you from home several times during the day
* you calling him at home
*e-mails from home

#3 find out what's 48 miles away from your home.
golf course,mall,park,neighborhood,office buildings,lake...I know that this would be a lot of work but just look at a map and see if you can tell "what's out there" trying to give him the benifit of the doubt.
H

I looked in the garbage can in his bathroom and found two condom wrappers in there that weren't there the day before.

If something is going on it appears that it's happening in your own home. Who takes the condom out of the wrapper before it's needed? If you can afford it maybe you should set up some kind of surveillance in your house, a "nanny cam". Or if that's too much just a voice activated tape recorder.

<small>[ May 06, 2004, 02:02 PM: Message edited by: toomanylies ]</small>

Ughh, I was afraid that you guys would say that I shouldn't confront him yet. I am dying to!

I don't know what he would say to talk himself out of the condom wrappers. Before, a condom was just missing. Although I knew in my heart I was right, he just said that he didn't know anything about a missing condom. But wrappers in the trash can? It's not that there are 2 condoms missing now - this time they were used and the wrappers were thrown away in my house. WAT, why do you say I should save the wrappers? I'm afraid that if I don't confront him right now about the condoms, he will eventually throw out the trash and it will be old news if I bring it up in the future. He would more easily be able to talk himself out of it. We have not been intimate since we got back from our trip on Monday, so I just don't know how he could explain them being there.

WAT, I love the idea of the poison ivy. But only if I don't continue in plan A and continue SF with him, of course! I'll keep that one in mind for the future. To be honest, I don't even want to continue in plan A anymore, I honestly don't think I can keep it up much longer.

I can't afford a PI at this point. I'm kind of hesitant to follow him - too risky. I have been stashing away a little cash here and there to be able to purchase a GPS tracking system for his car - at least it's not as expensive as a PI. I could just take the money from our accounts, but I don't want to raise any suspicions.

Hiker, as for the distance he is travelling, I suspect he could be driving into the city. A roundtrip ride into the city would be approx. 48 miles. As a matter of fact, I work in the city, and I SWEAR I saw his car one time on his day off. Some co-workers and I were driving back to the office after a late lunch and I could swear I saw his SUV parked at a meter on the street. I was able to take a quick look at the license plate and the first 3 letter matched - I wasn't able to see the last numbers. What are the chances of seeing a similar car as yours with the first 3 letters matching? It could be something very common, I don't know. Maybe I am just going insane and will probably be seeing his car everywhere now. I tell you though, where the car was parked- it was about EXACTLY 48 miles round trip. There was a big apartment building there, and next to it, a gym. As you say, Hiker, I could give him the benefit of the doubt about trips into the city, but my question is - why would he have to lie about it?

I am also considering taking the day off one day to surprise him to see his reaction. Bringing someone to our house is something that I never suspected before, so my other option is to leave work in the middle of the day with a "migraine" and show up at home. I also like the idea of the voice activated recorder. I'll have to check into the cost of the "nanny cam."

Thanks for your input

I would not confront him, but take off on his day off and come home. That may tell you something.

duh - dumb me. I didn't even make the connection toomanylies made about wrappers being in your house. Guess I thought he brought them back for some reason. That doesen't make sense.

Could he be bringing her to your house and she's 24 miles away?

If you can't hire a PI, then confront him! But this won't identify her. GPS tracking? Can't sneak that in, I don't think? Need an antenna/sensor seeing the sky.

No e-mails?? Spyware on your computer?

You have no choice but continue Plan A. I don't have a for-sure recommendation to identify her other than a PI.

Keep your eyes and ears open. He'll slip up sooner or later. Perhaps if you drop back he'll get careless.

WAT

<small>[ March 17, 2005, 04:33 AM: Message edited by: Lady_In_Red ]</small>

svb, the other posters gave you great advice! If you confront your H with this information, he will only be more secretive and you will never find out what is really happening. Don't show your hand before you are ready to bid! You don't know anything yet so you have nothing to confront him with. So, wait until you have some complete information.

<small>[ December 03, 2004, 01:18 PM: Message edited by: lovemyhubby ]</small>

svb,

Did you use condoms when you had sex during your trip to Cancun? Could it be that the wrappers were left in his luggage and when he got home and unpacked the bags, he saw them and threw them in the trash? Just an idea! I know it is far fetched, but it could certainly have happened that way.

I'm sort of wondering that if he really were to have an affair, would he really throw the condom wrappers in the trashcan at HOME? Most WS try to disguise their A as much as possible. And since you had already confronted him about the one missing condom, I would think that if he really were to have an A, he would be more careful to hide his stuff. But then, I do not know your husband and it's just something that popped into my mind.

Kati


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by svb:
We have not been intimate since we got back from our trip on Monday, so I just don't know how he could explain them being there.
[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Thank you, everybody, for your great advice. I honestly don't know what I'd do without MB and the people on this board.

Although I am dying to confront him right now, I am going wait a little longer for more evidence. I am going to start out with the voice activated recorder. I am placing an order right now for a digital one. Hopefully I will get it and find something soon.

Kati, the thought crossed my mind about the wrappers being from our vacation, but the more I thought about it, I know they are not, unfortunately. I know how many he had before we left for the trip, and how many after we returned. When we returned, he had 5 in his nightstand, and 6 in his travel bag (from the trip)in his bathroom (none of them were just wrappers). He took two out of his travel bag. I'm sure he thought I wouldn't look in there. The one that I found missing in the past was out of the nightstand. Why he would throw the wrappers in the trash in our house, though, is a mystery to me, too. It doesn't make any sense. I guess it could just mean that he is being careless already, which is good for me.

Thanks again, everyone, for your help. Hopefully, I will be able to stay strong enough to stay in plan A and wait for more evidence. I wonder if I should start a written log of everything that I find?- for instance, dates of his 48 mile trips, date condom wrappers found, etc. I just wouldn't want him to find it by accident. I will keep you all posted.

svb

<small>[ May 07, 2004, 01:17 PM: Message edited by: svb ]</small>

If it's not too late...cancel wherever you ordered the recorder from and get your butt to WalMart! I think it was about $43 in the electronics section(be sure to get the one with the remote mike. Set it to record and be sure to use the "lock keys" function so it will stay on.

It's sad that we have to learn these things. There are some things these days that I really wish that I never had to learn about.

BZ,

Thanks for the advice on the recorder. I got my butt to Wal-Mart this weekend. Today is my H's day off (Sunday night and Monday night) so I have the recorder in place under the sofa in the living room today! I am feeling a little better because I wouldn't have received the other recorder until after his day off. The sooner I find something, the better. I am still going to keep the other recorder. I will either place it in the bedroom or in his car when I receive it.

My H is feeling pretty sick, so I don't know if he'll be up to anything today. Who knows, though -- one thing I've learned is that I can't assume to know him or what he'll do anymore.

Wish me luck.

I don't have any new evidence ... yet. My H appears to have been a good boy yesterday.

I have a question, though. Would it be a bad idea for me to go away for Memorial Day weekend?

My mother has been bugging me to visit her (out-of-state). We haven't been home since Christmas. I won't be able to visit her for the July 4th weekend, either, which I usually do, because my H and I have made plans. If I go for Memorial Day, my H won't be able to go with me because he works Friday and Saturday nights.

I don't want to go for two reasons. First, I am terrified to leave him alone for the long weekend (which is something I never really worried about before). Second, I don't think that going away by myself is good for my M, according to MB principals. I am starting up classes again this week, and as it is, I will probably not even see my H at all on Tuesdays and Thursdays. I will work all day and go to class at night, and by the time I get home, my H will most likely already have left for work. I don't think going away for a weekend will make anything better. Plus, my H has hinted about doing something fun on Memorial Day.

On the other hand, if I do go, I can have my recorders in place at home. I can also think about unexpectedly coming home a little early on Monday.

Another problem is that I would have no clue what to tell my mother. She has been feeling lonely since my father died last year. I am already getting a pretty heavy guilt trip - "You used to come to visit more when your father was still alive." I cannot tell her what is going on between me and my H.

What do you guys think?

Go.

Re-read Rule #2.

Disconnect.

Don't try to "control" the situation. You can't.

Enjoy.

SVB -

I'd be hesitant to offer up anymore evidence. If you do he'll hide his tracks better and you won't have a way to track his activity. I regretted disclosing my information as early as I did.

Stick to the story of "I know something is going on. You know something is going on. I'm not stupid. You need to be straight with me."

Just a thought and I like WAT's idea of the poison ivy. Go WAT!!!!

It has been a while, but I am back and I have an update.

A month has passed since my H has shown any suspicious activity. He last put 48 miles on his car on 5/4 and I found the condom wrappers in the trash in our house on 5/5.

I have been using the voice activated recorder since then and I have heard nothing. Things have been almost wonderful between us. We have been talking a lot and he has been opening himself up a lot more to me. I did not go away for Memorial Day weekend and we had a wonderful time together.

I was beginning to believe that if anything was going on, it was over, and I had him back. I thought we were going to get past this. But no..I found that he put 48 miles on his car today. I was SO disappointed. I was SO disappointed, in fact, that I did a really bad thing - I confronted him about it. I just couldn't control myself. Of course, he got really defensive and said he went to the main post office in the city today. (which is a few blocks from where I THOUGHT I saw his car that one day). I know, I blew it.

The funny thing is that I had a gut feeling he would go today. The reason I believe that he has not gone anywhere in the past month is that he has been busy helping our neighbors pack for their move to Florida. Our neighbor (and good friend) has cancer. He has been home from the hospital since 5/8. The doctors can no longer do anything for him but make him comfortable. Our neighbors decided that they would move to FLA to their daughter's house so that he can spend the last of his days with family. My H has come home every morning from work and has gone directly to their place to help our neigbbor's wife box up everything. My H can be a wonderfully helpful and generous soul.

However, our neighbors have been officially gone since Friday, and my H and I spent the entire weekend together through yesterday. Basically, today was his first opportunity to slip away to his mysterious destination that is 24 miles away. I guess I should also mention that when I initially told him that I wasn't going away for the weekend I could sense that he wasn't entirely happy about it. He had been encouraging me to go.

I do not believe that he went to the main post office. I believe that he went somewhere NEAR the post office, perhaps. His story for going to the post office is absolutely ridiculous! Here it is... our neighbors left behind a large outdoor storage container because it wouldn't fit in their moving truck. Our neighbor's wife asked my H if he could ship it to them via UPS. He told me that he went to the main post office because the neighbor's wife told him on the phone today that the main post office might be able to ship it for him, which he told me "after his visit to the post office" that it is not true. Mind you, he did not TAKE the storage unit with him. He just drove down there to ASK them (24 miles away). I said, "couldn't you just have called them?" And guess what, he didn't even answer the question. He just threw everything back at me saying that he has already told me the truth about everything and he is tired of me questioning him all the time. He said that he doesn't care if I believe him or not.

I stressed to him again that I need total openness and honesty from him - even if it will hurt me. He told me again that he has always told me the truth.

I have questions for you guys.

Can I believe him? Could it be remotely true?

If he is actually having an A, how can he show NO signs for a month? Can you take a break from an A for a month? What kind of a relationship do they have? Overall, other than his mileage and the condoms, I have found no other evidence. I haven't found any strange phone numbers. (he doesn't have a cell phone) I haven't found any strange spending - no bizarre credit card charges or money missing. I am in charge of our finances. I see his paystubs and I know exactly how much money is deposited and withdrawn. I doubt that he has any credit cards or bank accounts that I am not aware of. I have been also checking the computer.. and nothing.

I am very sorry for the long post. I just don't know what to do anymore. I don't feel like I can believe him, although I want to. At this point I feel like giving up. Can you do a plan B without any confession of an A?

I feel like my case is so different from anything I've seen on this board.

Maybe I AM going insane.

I failed to mention one other thing.

We did all of our laundry together yesterday. Today I found that he did laundry again. He washed his clothes from today - jeans, shirt, socks, underwear - nothing else. This is what he does after every one of his trips.

This is suspicious behavior to me.

Here's something funny, though. He hung his jeans to dry in his bathroom - which he doesn't ever do. My first thought was that he did it so I wouldn't notice. But yet he forgot his underwear and socks still wet in the washer, and his shirt half dried and crumpled in the dryer.

Is that weird or what? I don't know if I should dry his clothes and put them away - or if I should just place all of his wet clothes, including his jeans, on top of the dryer to show him that I NOTICED.