Thanks CW, you are a good guy. BTW I stuck up for you on Atruheart's thread. I gathered it was your quirky sense of humour (kiwi sp) but I don't think Atruheart saw it.

JL, this morning H left for work with a spring in his step (and not because he'd had SF either LOL) because we talked about all the things you'd written. You know it is the fantasy I'm hanging on to - it is something missing from me - we used to be so good together, we had fun, we leaned on each other through good times and bad.

Now that we're REALLY talking I can be honest about what I like and what I want. I'm the one you'll find dancing on the tables at a party. I said to H "don't you hate that I'm so "out there" and he said "I love to see you enjoying yourself - just because I'm quiet doesn't mean I'm not enjoying watching you enjoy yourself."

I love cellphones and gadgets and all the modern stuff. H HATES it. I always thought I had to pretend I hated them too.

We'd never talked about this before. I always just "assumed" I knew what he was thinking.

So, the pylons for the bridge are going up. It's so wonderful. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Jenny

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> This thread is always open to KiwiJ, Lisa103, MrsX and Just learning and any others who want to constructively offer advice to same.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">how about to someone that just wants to say HI to JL?

HI JL!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> i have not seen you posting too much, i usually see your name all over the place. i hope all is well and the family is well too.

cwmac and mrsx, sorry for the threadjack, please forgive me, but the conversation between KiwiJ and JL hits very close to home. It almost describes my circumstance to a T. We are on the same recovery timeline and your sound alot like my W. Yes Jenny, that's a good thing in my book!

Kiwi, I see what you are experiencing and I believe my W is going through the same process. If I am wrong please correct me. My W is trying to come to a place where she can trust me enough to give herself to me again. Not in a way that I own her, but in mutual submission. I have not wavered about my committment to her and told her I would fight for her and the M no matter what. The reason, I believe she is hesitating is because she needs to be able to trust me again. She says she loves me and I believe it. So why doesn't she commit fully? I think she sees a need for me in her life and wants to be married to me, but she is not in love with me yet. I'm sure this bothers her along with the guilt and pain.

I think JL's suggestion is a good one and I need to consider asking my W what does she need from me for her to trust me again. She may wonder if one day I would just leave her b/c of the A. I think at times she sees her act as unforgivable. I have wanted the same thing from my W, a commitment, she just can't honestly give that right now. I think the answer will be time. Time for her to heal and time for her to see that she can trust me. She has been wounded deeply by this whole mess.

Jenny, I would encourage you to give yourself time. I know your M will work. One thing I told my W that I need from her right now is encouragement that I am doing the right things. I think your H needs the same. Also, get that idea that a separation will do you good out of your heads. You guys are making great progress, there are always setbacks in recovery. You need to be together as much as possible.

Jenny, Thanks for posting, it really gives me alot of insight. Thanks JL for your wisdom and care. I told my W just the other day that we are almost there and that I am confident we will stay married and have a great M. She did admit she now thinks that it could work. This is a far cry from its over because too much has happened. That was 9 months ago on dday! I think JL had a comment that has really stuck with me and that is that the recovery from an A is an opportunity for a better more intimate M. He's right and it gets more exciting every day.

Christ's Love,
Roman121

<small>[ May 26, 2004, 03:47 PM: Message edited by: Roman121 ]</small>

Roman and FL, good to see you here.

Roman you said something that really struck me. You said your w has been wounded deeply. It takes a big man to see that and to say it. I can say that because my H said to me that he thought I'd been more hurt than him over this whole mess. I said that can't be possible but he said "I bounce, you don't."

I've told H he's done everything right and he has. He's bent over backwards to do everything and anything to save this marriage. Roman, it sounds like you have too. Now it's up to me to meet him 100%.

I feel incredibly good today - I don't know what I'd do without you guys and JL.

Roman, FL, Lisa, MrsX, CWMac - we're all going to make it!!! I had a friend who used to say "I feel it in my water" which I always thought was a disgusting expression but it seems to fit here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Jenny

normally I am content to simply lurk but Jenny, this was such a touching comment of yours, I had to highlight it:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I read all the posts from BS's and I really want their marriages to work - I want their WS's to wake up. And yet, I'm just as bad as all their foggy spouses. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">you have good insights... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

so how about it? cast that illumination inside yourself as JL is suggesting...find what it is that you are truly seeking...and then don't be afraid to talk about it with H and definitely don't let (mis)assumptions hold you down...

sexy, in-love, middle-aged couple is everything it is cracked up to be! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> awed

Thanks Awed, I feel such a turnaround today. Being a sexy, in love, middle aged couple sounds lovely. That's what I always thought we were <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> and I know we can get it back. Another friend said to me before all this happened. I love watching you and your H, your face lights up as soon as he walks in the room. I WANT THAT BACK!!!!!!!!!!

I remember when you posted to me on my first post. I wasn't up with the etiquette on BB's and I think I ignored you. Apologies for that right now - I actually read and digested everything anyone said to me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Jenny

Jenny, i am glad you are feeling so much better today!!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You said your w has been wounded deeply. It takes a big man to see that and to say it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i agree with jenny... roman, and so many other BHs that i see around here are amazing in their ability to have compasion towards their WWs.

now someone wack me with a 2x4 cuz i am sitting here wanting to start to say things to myself like, "boy i wish my H was like that!!!" and yet, maybe i am selling him short, maybe he does and just cannot let me know because of his own pain. that would certainly be understandable.

he has told me he is still commited to me, he does say he loves me. he hugs me very tightly at times, he plays one game of backgammon at least 3 nights out the week <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

ok, don't 2x4 me, i take it all back <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> he may not appear to me exactly like some of the BHs here but he has been very good to me.

<small>[ May 26, 2004, 04:23 PM: Message edited by: FinallyLearning ]</small>

FL, everyone, thanks so much.

Now I gotta leave this computer and get on with all the things that need doing around here - like getting a job!

Jenny

FL,

You said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">now someone wack me with a 2x4 cuz i am sitting here wanting to start to say things to myself like, "boy i wish my H was like that!!!" and yet, maybe i am selling him short, maybe he does and just cannot let me know because of his own pain. that would certainly be understandable.

he has told me he is still commited to me, he does say he loves me. he hugs me very tightly at times, he plays one game of backgammon at least 3 nights out the week [Smile]

ok, don't 2x4 me, i take it all back [Smile] he may not appear to me exactly like some of the BHs here but he has been very good to me.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">FL, it seems to me the man is scared to death. He did do what most of the BH's and BW's did, now he is frightened to trust HIMSELF. Further he is in a more tenous situation than most of the guys here. He depends on you not for just the things a W can provide, but even financially. He is very vulnerable.

Here is where opening YOUR heart to him might help. It is a subtle process, but if he can see what is inside, it will give him confidence, and you just MIGHT get that kiss. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Don't forget most of us guys were trained to measure ourselves by our financial contributions. I know, I know, it is a new world, but we are still ancient reptiles wondering around. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Well, I can only speak for myself. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

FL, I think you are doing better than you realize. Also don't forget your H's profession is more artistic and often people in those fields are more sensitive, so the healing takes longer.

Us folks in the sciences are a crustier lot.

In any event hang on, you are doing well.

God Bless,

JL

Jenny,

You said you want back "lighting up" when he comes in the room. That is a no brainer, just give him a smile and HE will light up, and then you will as well. A first it may take conscious effort, but after awhile it will become addicting.

I will tell you a little secret. One of the old posters here SKM does something pretty neat. When I have had dinner with she and her H, she seems to always be looking at him. It is soooo noticeable. The two of them are so aware of one another in the presence of other people. It is really cool to see. It is something you might consider.

You also said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">JL, this morning H left for work with a spring in his step (and not because he'd had SF either LOL) because we talked about all the things you'd written. You know it is the fantasy I'm hanging on to - it is something missing from me - we used to be so good together, we had fun, we leaned on each other through good times and bad.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And you still can, you just need to lean girl. That is all you have to do is tilt in his direction. It is part of giving your heart to him. Have you thought more about what I said on the subject? What are your thoughts?


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now that we're REALLY talking I can be honest about what I like and what I want. I'm the one you'll find dancing on the tables at a party. I said to H "don't you hate that I'm so "out there" and he said "I love to see you enjoying yourself - just because I'm quiet doesn't mean I'm not enjoying watching you enjoy yourself."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, why is it always on Cwmac's thread's that these subjects come up. Yup, I am blaming him for what I am about to say. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Jenny haven't you figure it out yet. Most men truely enjoy and get turned on when their W is happy. This applies to sex, and it applies to just everyday life. Your H does not NEED to do what you NEED to do, but he does NEED to see you happy. You simply have NO idea what it does to men.

Enthusiasm is easily the most attractive, sexy, alluring thing a woman can have. It really and truely is.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I love cellphones and gadgets and all the modern stuff. H HATES it. I always thought I had to pretend I hated them too.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He probably doesn't hate them as much as you think, he just hates the learning curve and the time it takes. So when you get a really cool gadget, teach him how to use it, only what he needs to learn to do something useful to him. In my mind what is really cool, is when you can mix a modern gadget with an old something and make it work better but essentially the same way.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We'd never talked about this before. I always just "assumed" I knew what he was thinking.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">AH assumptions, the biggest LB of them all. I know you have heard the lecture on Disrespectful Judgements, DJ's. The ultimate is when you think you know what someone is thinking and act on it. Finally, we are weening Jenny off of LB's. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> It is about time. Keep talking Jenny, that is a major part of giving him your heart.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So, the pylons for the bridge are going up. It's so wonderful. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Heck those pylons look pretty good from here as well. Keep up the good work. You and your H will get this job done, big time. That is what I am thinking.

Must go, lots of work to do from my week of travel.

God Bless,

JL

<small>[ May 26, 2004, 05:26 PM: Message edited by: Just Learning ]</small>