I'm confused and need some help in clearing my mind.
WH and I have gradually worked our way back to communicating since the A came to light 3 weeks ago. He moved out from first day of A coming to light.
About a week ago I offered up an escape one afternoon via sex. I wanted to escape the pain and just pretend to be someone else and suggested he too would probably like that. He turned me down in a kind manner.
A few days later he made the offer to me and I took it.
He was unable to get stimulated enough but he didn't miss a beat in making sure that I was completely satisfied. It was a day for me and I felt absolutely loved as he was so extremely unselfish in his loving me.
Okay, we didnt discuss the physical problem he was having but I assumed it was from the A and I just attempted to make him feel good. I didn't want to bring attention to what was not happening.

Throughout this week we somewhat pretended that this man that made love to me so unselfishly was a hitchhiker that he picked up (and left him at our house).
So we've been teasing one another whether or not this hitchhiker would return.

Tonight he tells me that the hitchhiker confided in him that the same problem that happened with me was happening with the OW, and that it has been for some time. I asked if it was even before the A came to be common knowledge and he said yes.
He said maybe the hitchhiker should consider Viagra. And added that even when the hitchhiker was by himself that he was not able to perform.

My suggestion was that he didn't need anything that things were stressful and he shouldn't jump the gun.

And I do know that the few times that we did make love prior to my knowledge of the A, my WH had great response. No viagra needed.

So with all that said, I wonder why he felt it important to tell me that it wasn't working with the OW either? Could it be that he thought I took it personally (as I didn't)
Or maybe its his way in telling me things aren't that great with the OW? I just don't know.

He did say he would look for the hitchhiker again if I wished to see him. I said sure that I could draw him a map so he could find his way home.
He said it wasn't necessary that he was working on that.

So . . . again, he leaves for the night to sleep somewhere else.
I'm so confused over his divulging such information. I feel good that he did as its open communication. I can't see that being fog talk. Or should I?

Input badly needed.

Bumping question. Could really use some feedback. Is discussing sexual disfunction fog talk? or this is good sign that this type of communication is his way of showing his trust with BS?

Help

whitefeather

I don't know much about ED. It can be mental, or it can be phisical.

Why your H gave you that information, could be out of guilt and to make you feel better. I'm sorry if I'm negative, but him leaving and not wanting to face things with you, doesn't show much commitment. Don't take it hard, if he is still with OW, it's mostly guilt talaking to make you feel good. And we already know that we don't have to pay attention to fog talk. Yes I know is very very hard to, but it's like it is, not that we like it and we tend to believe it.

What I'm telling you, is do not pay much attention on what he is telling you right now, take that information, and use it wisely in the future when he is willing to commit, like if it got a reason, you can go to a counselor when he is in the mood, and talk it over there to fix that problem among many others. Until then, do not dwell on that.

Take good care

Hi WF.
I see it as a VERY GOOD sign; him sharing this most personal detail of what is going on with him. (Erectile Dysfunction; ED)

He wanted you to know that it was not YOU that prevented him getting hard; but it also happens with the OW and even when 'flying solo'.

And didn't that make YOU feel a LOT better, knowing she couldn't get it to work either?
(And I am sure she is doing lots of OS and trying everything possible!)

And him satisfying YOU is surely a sign that he cares very much about YOU! It is like he is beginning to come back to YOU! Wonderful!

It sounds like he has a circulatory problem and he really might need a little viagra; like half a pill to begin with.
Tell the 'hitchiker' he can practice it on YOU. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
Sincerely, Julie

whitefeather, am I to understand that he is openly sleeping with you AND the OW? Why would you allow this to continue? Do you have an open marriage?

What plan are you in?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> whitefeather, am I to understand that he is openly sleeping with you AND the OW? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That would be a Yes.

Men are not necessarily quite as sexually mechanical as everyone assumes--(see t*ts, d**k gets hard). He doesn't need viagra, he needs a good IC.

During the A, I had a heck of a time. The first I tried with OW, I couldn't perform. I had trouble rising to the occasion with OW on many occasions. I would have all the other attributes of arrousal--rapid pulse, breathing, etc., but I couldn't get it up. OW had to do some specific things.

He is probably having a lot of guilt with you and with OW. He is one confused guy. His problem isn't physical, its emotional. Have you tried to get him to go into IC?

"Fog speak" is rationalizations and excuses, so this isn't fog-ease. I suspect he told you this because he can confide to you about stuff he can't talk to OW about.

I really wish I could talk to him and set him straight. He is headed for pure torture.

I appreciate greatly the responses. Admittingly I am leary of how to proceed.

It is not that I want to win my WH back by sex. Its more of a confirmation of what could be, that I had already been working on since last summer.
Myself being overweight and not feeling good about myself has had me pushing him away. Sadly about the time I started feeling good (with a change in BP medicine and excercise) he had his defense mechanism up and was turning me down.
So for about 8 months I've been slowly improving our sex lives with my initiative. But sadly it was either to slow as he had somewhat emotionally checked out from me. (sex not being the only problem)
So yes, MelodyLane, I am actively seeking sex with my WH while he is with OW. I have no idea if it is the right thing to do, but for now I want to pursue it. Since the one attempt it has opened a huge amount of communication with us, and not just about sex.
We are sharing thoughts, which we didn't prior to A coming to light.
And I do place sex as high on my need list.
And I would be remiss to say that I gain personally from this also. I have lost 40lbs over the past year and I feel good about myself.

Blessed Time- I sure hope it is a good sign. Since then he has made several comments implying that more is to come. And I can only hope it leads to more open communication and with that hopefully a clearer path to take.
And yes, I must admit I am glad that the OW is having to see his problem too. Honestly I don't think his problem is physical.


Jimmy Mac- I would love to hear more from your prospective. I didn't know what you meant by IC (couldn't find that on the acronym list?) but assume you mean counseling?
Initially he has shot down idea of counseling but even that seems to be a possibility now. I actually have two appts scheduled in hopes of getting him to one.
And yes, he is extremely confused. Its hard to see him this way as "the best friend" in me wants to be just that and not his wife. (with hopes he would talk to me as a friend)

I so appreciate your reasoning on fog talk. He is not rationalizing or giving excuses regarding this, it is factual. (that makes sense)

I wish you would expand on your comment about him "heading into pure torture".
Beside couseling what can I do? Your comment concerns me.

Any others that have feedback ? I would greatly appreciate it. This is not one of those subjects I care to discuss with that knows either one of us. The anomonity of this site helps tremendously.

"Pure torture"--he is placing himself between two women without the ability to tell one of them good-bye. He is not moving forward. It is not a fun place to be.

I don't know what happened between you two, but if you weren't having sex with him, he probably has some serious issues. Woman develop a deep emotional connection and then have sex; men have sex and then develop a deep emotional connection. Taking away the sex will destroy the emotional connection.

The problem with most men is that they can't talk about their feelings very well. So, going to someone like an IC (individual counselor as opposed to MC, a marriage counselor), would help him sort this all out.

Most good ICs would tell your H to try to fix his relationship with you, and, if he can't, then divorce and move on--which is, by the way, great advice.

WF

I also have had SF with my WH. Of course he has told OW to bug off for the time being. I did feel better for a while afterwards, but then felt I lowered myself to her level.

As far as problems, I noticed right off that he was turned on by me. I also weigh 52lbs less than I did when we were together last. OW weighs about 120lbs more than I now, she is heavier. Weight has never been an issue with my WH though, but it was with me.

I think that JM is right, as my WH also needs IC because he is right. I did have an emotional attachment to him before our SF day, and he did not as he was still seeing OW. After our SF he immediately broke it off with her and began coming around the house saying he didn't know what he wanted.

I know he wants to come home, but he is embarrassed to say so, and guilt is really riding him right now. He has gone away for a few days alone to visit his father. My IC said this is the best thing he could do for himself. I am also going away alone in a couple of weeks. To gather strength and clear my head without the kids. I can imagine it would be hard for WH to perform though with OW in the back of their minds. My "hitchhiker" has also promised to return again. But I made it clear that I wasn't opening the car door if there was still three in our marriage. Good Luck to you!

HINY

My WH indicated also that he had problems having sex with OW sometimes. Personally, I thought it was a load of bulls**t. I thought he was trying to make me think that he wasn't having too much fun out there. I don't really believe him. Our sex life was terrible when his affair started and I'm sure that he has had great 'new' sex with her. In my mind, she is not a very nice person but her one advantage is she has the thrill and excitment that a new sexual relation-ship gives you. Maybe I'm wrong but that was my interpretation of things. That's why I'm so convinced that once that initial excitment has waned, he'd so regret it if they ended up together. They have NOTHING else in common.

I wouldn't think when a man says it is not for sex in an A that it would be true. But I am honestly believing he was telling me the truth on this one. Why? cause I talked to the OW hubby.
The OW has some serious sexual hangups and sex is not on the top of her list and has never been. He said he knew this going in to their marriage but loved her.
I'm not saying that they don't have sex, as WH has said so. But he has also said that numerous times he just didn't rise to the occasion.

I probably don't help on this one as I would normally feel the way you do. Sex is generally on the top of the list for A's.
But I wanted to tell you apparently that is not always the case.

WF-- You can tell WH that there is a DRUG-FREE cure! My FWH suffered ED throughout the A, and the many false recoveries. After Dday 1, I asked if he had the same issues with OW, and he told me "sometimes." Since we have been in real recovery, the "problem" has mysteriously disappeared, and he is MUCH better than before!! You see, honesty and clean living are the best cure ever... Invite the hitchiker to get into immediate exclusive therapy with nurse whitefeather. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />
As for whether or not you should be doing SF while H is still with OW, I think SF is an important part of Plan A, especially if it was a pre-A issue. I just caution you to be sure you are safe from any "germs and bugs" the skanky OW could be sharing with WH. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Good luck! --DT

I like the suggestion that nurse whitefeather should administer to the hitchhiker some healthy therapy.

Honestly, he was very responsive prior to the affair . . . so I tend to believe the cure will be drug-free. We just need to remove the lies in his life.

We'll see. He has lessened his contact with me the past few days. We've talked but he has avoided any lengthy visits. Meanwhile, I would love to see the hitchhiker. This seperation stuff stinks.

You are now firmly implanted in my mind as Nurse Whitefeather and I bet you look cute in that outfit with a big syringe in your hand! Best Wishes!!

I like the sound of that . . . Nurse Whitefeather.

The nurse had a bad day as the counselors office called to cancel an appt I had scheduled for several weeks. I started crying and sounded so desperate, they gave me an appt with another one in the office in the afternoon today.

Prior to going, I called WH and calmly asked if he would consider joining me. He asked where, what time then paused a very long time. But as expected said no. I so appreciated the long pause though and honestly felt he was considering. So the reply was better then just flat out no.
He also added he wanted to hear how it went.

So I went. Just like MB the suggestion was to concentrate on oneself, not be confrontational and I should consider going to physician for anti-depressants to help with roller coaster ride I'm on. I'm not sleeping well . . . or eating well.
I'll call tomorrow for appt.

From the little time of our visit I felt comfortable that I'm heading the right path, that is to wait it out. But also have set up another appt 3 weeks away to "possibly" get WH to go with me. We'll see.

So presently Nurse Whitefeather is administering health care to herself. She is not a good patient by any means . . .but we have hope she will improve.

Whitefeather, I went for a well-woman check, breast examination, blood pressure, blood tests. I felt it was a big step towards looking after me. Everything came back fine and there is a lot of satisfaction in being given a clean bill of health. So continue to look after yourself. It is amazing how many people on this site are struggling with health issues (my WH is one as you know) together with infidelity. Good physical health definitely helps with your mental health. I'm off for a swim now! Still haven't decided about my spying yet. Think I'll see how this weekend goes. I'll make an appointment for us to play squash (racket-ball in the US?) so he has an obligation to get back early!!