<small>[ November 07, 2004, 09:05 AM: Message edited by: cipher ]</small>

Yikes! What a mess. Welcome to marriagebuilders. It is good that you have found this site early. You will get a lot of support and advice here. People here know exactly what you are going through.

You will be very miserable at first, but things will get better. This site has plans to save your marriage. Start in Plan A. You can read all about it here - check it out in the Just Found Out forum under the thread "General Welcome to All New Builders".

About the pregnancy, most people in affairs don't use birth control, so it is a possibiity.

wow, what a mess and how tragic for you and your kids! There is no way to tell if this affair will end, but the odds are pretty great that it WILL end.

The strategy that I would suggest is the BEST Plan A you can muster, no lovebusters, etc. Trying your best to meet her needs and attract her back to you. It sounds like your marriage just sort of fell by the wayside over the years and you will have to work hard to give her any hope for a better marriage in the future.

I will just tell you that your situation is far from hopeless, LA. If you are strategic about this, your chances are much better.

Have you asked her about the pregnancy? I would ask her right out. Have you exposed her affair everywhere?

Lovelessalone,
I am also a male BS. I feel for you. My situation was diiferent because my W never moved out for OM (She probably wanted to but he was married and had created the boundary that he wouldn't divorce.)

My advice to all newcomers is read everything on this site. You already have SAA.

Next, where are you in Plan A? Where you able to get any Plan A accomplished before she moved out?

If not every moment that you are together is precious time. DO NOT WASTE IT & DO NOT LB. Don't have relationship talks with her. Just Plan A.

What ENs were you not meeting that the OM met? Affection? Based upon your description the OM is going to have a very tough time meeting her Financial Needs unless your W is independently wealthy

By Plan Aing try to make yourself interesting. Try to meet her needs especially the needs that you didn't and he did.

Most affairs of married men don't turn physical until there is a deep emotional bond. It usually takes 4-6 months. You said 3 months so it may have started earlier as a co-worker friendship.

Well, that's a start at answering your question. Any specific questions??

cwmac

Oh one more piece of advice. It's advice that I got as a newbie and ignored because I could manage by myself. It sounds as though you are holding up but depression may set in. Run don't walk to your doctor and get on anti-depressants.

Again,I ignored this advice and regretted it. Depression is progressive it gets worse and harder to treat the longer you ignore it. AD's will aslo help you deal rationally with your "alien" wife. AD's help with anxiety.

All infidelity causes depression, however there are certain scenarios that are even tougher to deal with. You have two of them: The WS abandoning the family for the OP and a pregnancy.

Hang in there. Your emotional roller coaster is leaving the station!!

cwmac

Thank you all who replied. You have all suggested Plan A, but it is nearly impossible at the moment. WW is not aware of the ENs concept but has managed a remarkable job of protecting her ENs from me since moving in with OM. I've had to best guess her ENs, but I'm sure of number one being Conversation. Meeting this EN is impossible in our current situation. We have very little contact and she will not allow herself to be drawn into conversation when we are together. Affection? She will not accept any, vocal and physicall affection, letters, flowers, gifts of any sort seem to drive her away. I've been careful in trying any of those things so as not to seem desperate, but the effect always seems negative. Admiration? She has had a problem with low self-esteem in the past that has created a need for admiration but a refusal to accept it at times. With the OM her low self-esteem problem seems to have gone into hibernation, with me she seems to regard any admiration as an attempt to manipulate her. Recreational Companionship? She refuses to be involved with anything that has to do with me. She and OM are finacially retarded, their major recreation seems to be sitting around his appt. smoking pot and griping about their mutual employer (and probably me). Domestic Support? She's not home and I'm not going over to clean OM appt. any time soon. As far as the self-improvement aspects of Plan A/B are concerned, I'm doing my best, but WW is not in any position to witness any of it. Also, to answer cwmac I was not able to do any Plan A before she moved out. It was D-day, 1 week freak out, WW moves in with OM. I discovered MB that same day, but too late.

Is it possible to implement Plan A in this situation? How? From my understanding both Plan A and B are impossible to use correctly for me. Plan A because of WW living with OM and Plan B because of our children. I have to see her and or talk to her several times a week. I've had trouble finding a steady intermediary to handle child exchanges, and WW refused to deal with them when they are available.

Answers to other questions:

Exposure? Done, as best I can. I've exposed it to everyone I can think of, but WW has isolated herself from both our families and any friends we had in common. Basicly she will not talk to anyone with any sense, that might tell her she's got her head up her rectum. She only consorts with OM and friends she's made at work in the last year who support and enable what she is doing. Her own mother will not talk to her. So exposure has little or no effect, except to LB as she believes that I have lied to turn everyone against her.

Anti-Ds? I do plan on seeing my doctor soon. I don't believe I need anti-Ds at this point, but I will take my doctors advice on this. They would have helped 2 years ago when our opposite schedules started to get me down, or 2 months ago when WW dropped the bomb, but at this point I'm pretty stable. The shock of this A has kickstarted my life again. The brief but more intense feeling of D-day have gotten me out of a 2 year funk. I'm starting to live again. I haven't quite remembered how to have fun without WW, but I'm trying.

It's hard to lose your best friend and lover at once, and worse to be replaced as WW's best friend and lover. I'm focused on my children first and myself second and everything else will just have to come to me. It all seems to be out of my hands. I just wish there was something else I could do, to be more proactive about it somehow. Any more suggestions?

LoveleesAlone,
Your cycle of emotions sounds alot like mine. You were depressed two years ago and then again when the affair came to light. I too had been depressed prior to the affair due to my job.

As I said before depression is progressive. As I already said it is tougher to treat the longer its ignored. What I didn't say is that it is also more difficult to treat if you've had other episodes that weren't ever treated.

(BTW, my IC works hand in hand with a psychiatrist who is a specialist in brain pharmacology.)

Another factor that can affect treatment is the length of time that you are treated. I say this bc when the affair first hit I like you just went to my GP MD. They perscribed ADs with one refill. When I was feeling better they stopped the perscription after 60 days. This according to the psych specialist was a major mistake! I asked why did the MD cut it too short then. Psych answered that most MDs commonly make this mistake. Unfortunatley the result is that the depression is even tougher to treat after this type of "partial" treatment.

He also said that situations in which people who have had over three episodes that went untreated or two improperly treated can leed to the need for long term (multiple years) AD medication. Some cases for life.

Point 2:
You may feel as though Plan A is impossible but do it anyway. Assume that her needs are Communication and Affection. When in her presence try to speak with her in a nonLB manner. There has to be something she'll talk about. The kids, her job, her appt, even the OM, her plans for the future, etc. DO NOT GET PO'ed at the answers.

Show affection is small slight ways. Tell her in general terms that you want to have her be happy. I probably wouldn't go as far as to say, "Hope you and the OM have a wonderful life."

Work on yourself also. Get new interests. When she's around tell her about them. If you do this versus pleading with her to stay she'll respect you more.

Based upon your description, I've got to believe that sooner or later the OM will not be able to meet her need for financial security.

You said you exposed the affair. How about to their employer? Most employers do not necessarily condone relations. Is one a supervisor over the other? What about the drugs? Most employers do not put up with this at all bc they believe that the need for drug $$ may leed the employee to have sticky fingers.

Bc of the situation with the drugs, I think you should see a lawyer to learn your rights in your particular state.

Worse case scenario is that W divorces you and moves in or marries OM. Do you want your children living with this guy? Maybe he makes $$ on the side by selling. He probably could use a few more contacts in the school system when your kids get to junior high.

I don't mean sound like a pharmaceutical sales rep but the depression issue is very important to your long term health!!

cwmac

LA, Plan A is not impossible at all. Plan A is not contingent on meeting her needs. It also means no lovebusting and acting in a desirable, friendly way that will hopefully attract her back.

When you talk to her be as friendly as possible and avoid any talk about the relationship. Look for any opportunity to meet her needs as she softens up. Eventually, the OM will start lovebusting her over her contact with you so you want to be seen as a "safe haven" when that happens.

And I wouldn't underestimate the power of exposure. It has apparantly put great pressure on the affair because she is now avoiding her family. That means that this affair has come at a GREAT COST to her. A cost that the OM will NEVER be able to compensate for. This will surely eventually lead to resentment and trouble in the affair. You have made the affair HARDER for her to endure by doing this.

As I told you on the Pregnancy/Child forum, I have put out the call for K.

Hopefully he will be over there soon to offer you his story and his advice.

In the meanwhile, you are getting an awful lot of good advice and support here. Keep posting.

There IS hope! And you CAN do this!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

How are you doing? This is very sad and hope all gets better for you. Your W has really made a mess. It is really mind boggling the men women chose to have affairs with and do not think about what they are giving up. Stay strong for your children.

<small>[ June 02, 2004, 10:22 AM: Message edited by: Why-me? ]</small>

I'm a mess really, Changed my display name cause people complained about the first one.

M is very nearly completely over, just a little bit of waiting time. FWW is not pregnant, apparantly, but she is engaged to OM. Got legal custody and child support from me (thanks to super mother-biased judge). I get the kids 5 days a week and also pay daycare and medical expenses, and still have to pay her child support.

I've been reading about the difference between love and infatuation recently. FWW is definitely infatuated, but I wonder if that can't grow into love. She believes it's love. She believes they will be married have children and live happily ever after. I can see it in her eyes.

I haven't lost my love for her, but I don't have any hope that she'll return.

most recent post about my sitch: Cellophane's Journal

<small>[ June 02, 2004, 12:52 PM: Message edited by: cellophane ]</small>

Cello,
You said that you still love your W. How much? The answer to that question is your answer for your resolve. How far will you go and how much will you endure to save your M?

I know your situation and have read almost all your threads. The man you describe will eventually fail your W. He is not the father of you children. You W is basing everything on her emotions with no rational thought. She sees this as an escape from her deep pain. You will not reach her on a rational basis. She will crash and you need to be the best alternative when she does. It is not hopeless and can definately be saved.

What changes are you making to yourself so that she sees you in a different light? What changes are you making to better meet her emotional needs? It is unfair, but the restoration of your M rests on your shoulders. You will have to bite your tongue until it bleeds! You will have to be patient and 100% committed to making this work. She will not lift a finger to help your M. She is blaming you for everything. It does not matter if it is your fault or not, so you will have to take it for now. All you can do is give.

Remember almost all affairs end. They are based on fantasy. Your children will pressure her and miss you. Try to avoid using them b/c your W will see it as an LB. Actually with them living together, she will see the truth about OM much sooner. She will hit bottom with only you to turn to. Read Boppo57. You have to beleive in these principles and live them. You must make changes to yourself and at the same time accept your W the way she is right now. In SAA, it took extreme resolve in the face of fierce rejection for Jon to win back his W. It took many months.

Your W needs to know you will fight for her and your M. It may seem like she is not listening, but she is and she is watching you. When she does return to you, the battle for your M will still be on you. It will take even more time and patience because you will want recovery to go much faster. She will be very cautious. She will test you and drag her feet.

You really had no time for a plan A type work. When you demanded she chose, she chose to be away from you, not necessarily to be with OM. So the question is what to do? Plan B? I think you need a strong plan A fisrt. Do it for 6 months to show her what she is missing. I good plan B must be followed by a good plan A. Without a strong plan A, plan B will not work. She must see you differently than before. She will be skeptical of your changes so you have to be very consistant.

Cello, please keep coming here, we will help you save this M. Keep stalling the D. The longer you do the better chance you have. If you give up, its over. Stay strong and resolved. It is a bad place to be, but you will become a better person and you won't regret the effort.

Christ's Love,
Roman121

First I should say, thank you Roman121, that was one of the best, most informative, most helpful, and most inspirational posts ever made in my general direction. I'm afraid it's just too late for me and my M.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Keep stalling the D. The longer you do the better chance you have.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No stalling to do, the deadline is set. Her coming home is the only thing that sill save this M, and it would take an absolute miracle for that to happen in time. This M is over. The only hope is a new R with her and from there a new M, I just don't see it happening. I wonder if I will be invited to their M.

<small>[ June 02, 2004, 01:48 PM: Message edited by: cellophane ]</small>