Hi 'Mom'.
How did you find out that he spent the night with the OW?

I guess 'Stressed out Mom' had it right that he was not telling the truth and he would probably end up with the OW!

What a liar he has become to try and hide his tracks; no man or woman should have to live in a marriage filled with unfaithfulness!

I see you are thinking of doing a Plan B now; it sounds like a good plan for you. Perhaps your greatest hope of saving your marriage!

Good luck staying firm in it.
Love, JUlie

Ok mom - how do you know he was with her??? I am sure you are angry and hurt as I know I am knowing that when my husband moved out he was probably with OW as well. Re-evaluate...do you want to lose your family or do you want your husband back?? Plan A him. Show him that you are better than OW. You are strong and you can show him that your marriage is worth it.

Hang in there!! How are your boys doing?? I know my D is having a hard time with Dad moving out.

Julie, I dont know if I want to save it now! That is TWO affairs now...regardless with same OW or not, in my book it is two affairs. he ended the first one and had NC for almost 6 or 7 weeks and now he is back with her.

I asked him yesterday if he was going to call her or be with her and he flat looked me in the eyes and said NO, I am not going to be with her. Talk about betrayed! What an [censored]!

I found out by calling him and asking him where he slept last night cuz I called the office and he didnt' answer. I asked if SHE was with him and he moaned and said NO...I said you called her though, right and he didnt' say anything...I said oh, it didn't take you long...I asked him if he had fun last night and he said NO, I didnt'! I said well, you slept with her didnt' you and he didnt' say anything...I said you just answered my question..he said Yea I guess I did...I said I sure hope she was worth me and your family GOODBYE! and hung up! I then sent him a text message saying...

"didnt' take long did it? I hope she is worth everything you are about to give up...you two deserve each other!"

Sorry, If I have lb'd, but I dont give a [censored] right now. what a LIAR and SOB! I am sick...just sick. Yes, I could have kept him here yestedya. All's I had to say was ok, dont go, you can stay...but I sent him on his way. I kicked him out. Well, I am so glad I did so he can be happy now!

Hope, my boys dont know anything. They went thru hell last time. and I am not going to put them thru that again. I will tell them when the time is right. I have to go into Plan B. I dont know if I want him back. He knew my boundries and he crossed them.

It is okay to LB...it is part of the process...i said some words along those lines you have text message him. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

We BS will also have to go through the same old symptom so it is okay. Vent it all out then get back into your plan.

WS will have to go through the YO-yo process before they actually come home for good. One minute they say yes and then the next minute no. Hang in there. You are a strong woman. You can make this work.

Mom, I'm sorry for what you are going through. For myself I would rather deal with the truth. Now you know what you are dealing with. Frankly D2's behavior doesn't surprise me at all. There have been red flags throughout for you. After my H's OW left his business and he resumed phone contact for those 2 weeks I knew something wasn't right. When he fessed up and the true NC began I saw progress being made. Before the NC something just didn't feel right.

Concerning my comment to you that some folks have commented on, about the rape victim being blamed for the rape, I'd like to clarify. Sorry if I offend anybody, but I wasn't referring to Mom's H, but to comments made to Mom on this forum. I think we all need to be 2x4ed occasionally. I've gotten my share of them. However, if it can be done with some gentleness or humor. Also, just like it is important to use "I" statements with our Ss, I believe we should attempt to minimize the "You" statements on here also. I think Mom's frustration, which was coming out in her posts, had to do with dealing with a lying H.

Mom, how did you deal with your boys the last time? My boys are teenagers so what I told my H might not apply to you. I made it clear from the beginning if he left our family he would have to tell the boys about the A and OW. I know that scared the crap out of him. If he was going to leave our boys they were going to know why.

I'm praying for you Mom! CV

After my H's A last year and 'promising' to give it up (even sending a N/C email), he was grumpy for 2 months until I couldn't stand it any longer. He acted like he didn't want to be with us any longer... I asked him to move out and he was gone the next day...and contacting the OW that night.

It was the best thing that could have happened. He had fantasized about her for months, thinking aobut her constantly. Always looking at that green gras on the other side of the fence and longing for it. He got to the other side of the fence and it wasn't all that. Then he started to look back at his family. Here he was, a grown man living in a one bedroom apt, missing his family, and the OW didn't have the blush he once thought.

Give her a chance to show her true colors. Yes, the A was probably still going on, or simmering under the surface. It is a fantasy, and what better way for the bubble to burst than to have them face reality.

I would Plan A for a few more days/weeks, then BAM, Plan B. Plan B is NOT for those that can't do a Plan A, but for those who have done a stellar Plan A and it's not enough to get WS off the fence (some WS are VERY stubborn).

How to Plan A...no mention of OW except to say, "I'm sad you are spending time with her." Invite him over for dinners or desserts...be SWEET!!! Fulfill his needs, the guilt will KILL him. Then Plan B, he may not SEEM to notice at first, but OW cannot fulfill his needs as weel as YOU, and he will become STARVED for you.

Do not let him move back so soon until some REAL changes have been made.

Have you started working on your Plan B letter?

Mom - I agree with the last post. I could tell that something was going on with WH. We made progress the first two weeks and then it was downhill from there. I still have no proof but I am positive he is back in contact with OW.

Anyway I would be interested in what you told your boys last time. My D thinks that mom and dad were fighting and dad left because of that. She blames me partially for her dad not being there. It is very frustrating but I don't want her to think bad of her father.

CV, first off, I want the thank you for your continued support and understanding about my LB's and frustration! You and I are sooo incredibly similar and so incredibly in the same situation that I think we can relate better to each other and you can see my frustration come out in my posts. It does hurt when people dont understand that I am just frustrated and trying to cry for help then I get bashed here. My H has been lying all this time. I dont know about what, but I will soon find that out!

StillHere and Hope, thank you for your posts...I think you may have nailed it StillHere!

H called a bit ago. I answered and this is how it went:

me: HELLO

H: Hello

me: yes

H: when I get out of the clinic, we need to talk.

me: oh really, what about?

H: about me calling OW in front of you and ending this once and for all

me: oh really, is that right?

H: we need to start over from the beginning and I need to stop this NOW..this has gotten way out of control.

me: yes it has

me: you slept with her last night and now you want to talk and work things out?

H: No, I didnt' sleep with her, she was on her period, so we didnt' do anything?

me: why'd you call her

H: I'm weak!

me: yea

me: ok, fine we will talk when you get home

H: Ok, bye


Well, there you have it..maybe seeing OW last night he realized this is not what he wants. Life is NOT greener on the other side. I dont know what to do. I think he DOES want me and his family and he DOES want to work on the M, but how can I be sure he will committ this time! I have to set some boundries if he wants back in here. Obvioulsly my boundries didnt' work last time...he wants to call her in front of me...should I just go to NH with him and have him end it in front of me and the staff! Also, he needs to write another NC letter, right?

I am so confused!

NO plan B letter right now...

you can't send the letter yet...ESPECIALLY till you know what you WANT!!!!!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
take a few days...

go dark though...as if in plan b....

If you send the letter now he will say it's just out of hurt and spite and blah blah blah..

say nothing now....
no "taunting"

perceive that every emotional outburst right now will be blown off ....and feed in to his "your just emotional"..."i know you are upsetl... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> "

you want his attention..
you want him to realize how dead on ball serious you are about dealing with him and his crap right now.....

emotional control....

this is not about her at all....

this is about him.....

and momto...
I am sorry that people can be so hurtful...

ARK

Wow, what a call...he's either a fast learner...or a VERY slow one.

This is an interesting opportunity. He still wants you both I think. There are going to need to be necessary requirements for him to renew the M. Firstly, and one many of us (me included) have tried to hammer home with Dad...QUIT THE NH!!! There can be NC if they still have the opportunity to sneak glances, phone calls, and quiet moments. Especially since the staff seem to be behind them, and it is off-limits territory for you.
Second, work the MB program. Third? What else?

There is always the threat that he could go back to this again and again. So, how do you make your M affair-proof, again? Pull back your Taker. She is out in full force expecting Dad to treat you better. Expecting to be treated like a Wife...true, not unreasonable expectations, but when you EXPECT it and it doesn't come, you harbor resentment that comes out as LB's...especially DJ's.

Don't expect anything from him right now...let go of that resentment. You don't have to gush and be all over him, but pull back the defensive claws.

This may be a good sign, or may be an opportunity for him to play both sides. See how serious he is, and if he's willing to give up the NH...or she's willing to quit.

Ark, thank you for your continued support! yes, it does hurt when people here bash me, especially when I am obviously reaching out for help and I am ALREADY hurting. I have said this before that I use this place as my safe haven. I appreciate al the support I get, good and bad, but when it comes out as harshly as it has been, it really hurts. But thank you for understanding.

StillHere..I had to laugh at your response.

One thing I want to ask ya'll...I want to know if H has been seeing her during this entire time we have been "working on the M" (yea right <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ) But I know it will kill me if he says YES they have been...so should I ask him or not? should I just let it go and go forward? I am afraid that I will not be able to let him back in if he says he has been seeing her! It hurts so bad just thinking it!

I really wanted this to last a bit longer so I can get the resentment out of myu system if you know what I mean. I am so angry right now, what if I cant go back into a plan A?

I just dont know what to do and how to act! I am so hurt, angry, resentful towards him and he knows it...but yet he is willing to come home and he wants to work it out now. I have got to get some boundries written out...help me please set some...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by momto3boys:
<strong>I just dont know what to do and how to act! I am so hurt, angry, resentful towards him and he knows it...but yet he is willing to come home and he wants to work it out now. I have got to get some boundries written out...help me please set some... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">React like when you were in that Indian Rest. No LB but assertive. I love you but you have to be willing to let me in.

What to do ?. I would Not go to plan B. He needs help to get away from OW ... this is normal case, you should be there to help him out. As I had suggested, you should review your plan A and start planing logistic of plan B (just incase).

Rather than setting boundary ... ask him what working for M means to him. POJA from there. Why ?. This is your plan A ... rather than whipping him with demands ... let him ammends you.

-rh-

MOM, I am so sorry for what is going on. You are always in my mind. I read all your 4 pages here before i even posted. Did you ask Dr. Harley? What did he say?

In my opinion, Dad knows what is right and he will come back. He just need some space and time to think. If he is home, and you don't give him the presurre, he will be colse to you. But from what i saw, you are giving him all the stress he doesn't need. I am not saying that you are not hurting and frustrated, but you have to controll it and let them out the right time, not now. I I were you, I will just act as a good wife and not to react to any of his behavior. I know it is hard to do than say. But no matter what you do, we are always here to support you. Do take the hard words personally.

We Chinese have a saying: good medicnes taste bitter, good advice hurts your ears.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by momto3boys:
<strong>I really wanted this to last a bit longer so I can get the resentment out of myu system if you know what I mean. I am so angry right now, what if I cant go back into a plan A?
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You have to plan A ... you have no choice. Think about your 3 boys ... think about he would call OW everytime you are lb'ng. Think about that he could just slipped again to OW ...

If you make him stay out there ... you fails him this time. He asks you to help him NC w/ OW but you say no.

I don't know ... he has ego yet he came to you and asked your help, you better be there for him, you, & your 3 boys.

-rh-

<small>[ May 10, 2004, 09:41 AM: Message edited by: redhat ]</small>

Mom,

Since the dynamic between you and Dad has been somewhat of a parent-child relationship - you being the one who defines the boundarie and rules of the game, and him - the adolescent for whom the world revolves, and he's out to prove his manhood by violating boundaries....

My suggestion is step back, have no solutions. Make him work to convince you that he is really truly commited. If he's still fence-sitting, trying to make this about your love busting (which doesn't help you, but isn't the reason he went running back to the vomit - biblical reference to dogs you might want to check out) when it's really about him wanting Wendy Lady to take care of Peter and the lost children while he has his adventures in the NH.

Wendy needs to retire her problem solving role. Dad knows enough tools. It's time for him to develop the plan of reconcilliation - because he blew yours up.

momto...

We were posting at the same time...so my post doesn't apply to your newest bit of info...of him calling today and wanting to talk...

you are very strong if you were able to take that call....

My reference to people being cruel was not to posters here...but your husband and OW... <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

IF you are going to talk today...you let him do ALL the talking....
ALL THE talking...
see what he brings to the table..

babble back...
lots oohhh
hhhmmmmmm
I see.....
alrighty then....

not to much information from you...
not a lot about your expectations...

let him talk the talk....

be as kind as you can.....
to save your own control and sanity....

ARK

Excellent idea KA.

I think when you talk with him your few words would be "So, what's your Plan?" And POJA from there.

I hear all of you...as you all were posting here, I was making out my boundry list! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I didnt' have many if ANY boundries last time, and maybe that is where I wetn wrong. I just trusted him blindly. Obviously not working! I let him still go to the NH and let him bully me into "he can handle it"..well that proves wrong

If I let him back in without any boundries set this time, he is going to walk all over me AGAIN. I think ineed to set some boundries. Frustration and treating him as a child comes from his lack of interest and my lack of trust in him. His arrogance and all that stuff. He acts like a child, he is sooo immature and cannot handle things at all. I try so hard not to treat him like a child, but he asks for it. He is always forgetting things and he relies on me too mucch....that will stop. He will be indepentent from now on. I am not going to be his mother any longer.

Please look at these boundries I have written and let me know what you think...

Boundries

Write NC letter with MY approval

Go to NH with me and end contact

Quit NH...if you do not quit NH then

No rounding at NH ever again...all NH contact goes thru PA...PA rounds and takes all calls period!

call and let me know when you leave here and when you get there...you need to let me know where you are AT ALL TIMES

If you make a pit stop...call

Honesty and Openess...tell me your feelings and be honest with me

POJA

I don't think you should say any boundaries...until you hear HEAR what he has to say...

if you hit him with your list...he will instinctively feel/accuse of being controled...

I am not sure he has to KNOW your boundaries....
especially since I assume they are the basic..

no contact...

lots of people are giving you the same advice...this may the time for you to say NOTHING>.....

ark