Kayla, does that mean I should not set any boundries! I just dont know if I can let him back in without any. Just looked at cell bill and he has called her once this mroning already! Why does he need to call her? If heis going to end it with her!

OK, ark, I will jsut see what he has to say and see if he sets some boundries. I think he KNOWS what he needs to do..I will see if he does them! Thanks!

MOm, please read Dr. Harlye's post to you.

THAT'S IT!!!!! BY GEORGE!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Button that lip tight...and just listen...

lots of non-committing answers...

listen tonight...harder than you ever had..
let go of the great temptation to rebuttal and refute...

really listen...
say little
say back to him what he tells you...so you both are clear that he is being heard...

it's gonna be HARD!!!!
God someone would have shove taffy in my mouth...
in a huge wad....I'm sure...(yummm taffy... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> )

but really listen...

who knows momto..end the conversation you may decide you don't want him to move back in right now...

who knows????????

see him as much as a child of God as you can..
listen to his words....

and then take time to think....

ARK

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Also, anytime I have LB'd him, I always apologize for my behaviour in which h=case he comes back and says "no need to apologize, I deserve it all"

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">web page Words that hurt....

You never will know what he would have offered, if you put yours on the table first.

Reverse babble him.

Ark, Pep, Orchid - you're so much better at this than me.

Ultimately, Mom, he will do NOTHING that doesn't come out of his brain first. It's an ego thing he's already admitted to.

NC has to be HIS idea. Giving up the NH has to be HIS idea.

And you have to babble him into it without him thinking you directed the whole thing.

But I'm not saying let him come home, without conditions. What I'm saying is that he works to put forth a plan. If you are agreeable, then great! Let him come home. If you don't like the plan, you know the line...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I just can't be enthusiastic about this. It doesn't address the issue in a way that I'm comfortable with. Is there something else you could offer?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Then bat your eyes and look like you're willing to work with him as soon as he shows you a workable plan! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Let him sweat and know this is all his doing, because you are not IMPOSING any conditions on him. You are simply letting him POJA with you.

thank lost...I just went over there and posted! I forgot about that forum. I will see what Dr. Harley says himself, then you all know.

Haven't you guys noticed I am not good at keeping my mouth shut! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Haven't you guys noticed I am not good at keeping my mouth shut!

As a matter of fact.... I have noticed! Funny you should mention this!

I went to an Al-Anon meeting Saturday ...

And I realized

I have to SHUT MY MOUTH when I am around my son.... cuz' I impede HIS progress everytime I try to help him...

"The art of shutting up".... sounds like a best seller in the making.

Pep

MOM,

Doc already knows your boundries. He crossed them on purpose, without regard to your feelings or your children's.

I posted before that I felt he was still in contact with her, if not Physcially than definatly emotionally. He was more cocky and mean than confused and remorseful. Plus the OW went quite. I dont think that would have happened
I think she would have continued to stir you up.

As far as the NH, he needs to resign. He has demonstrated that he cannot "handle" things professionally between OW and himself.

I dont know if I would trust a phone call with you two together, seriously he has shown he is weak and he did call her this AM...Maybe to warn her of this call???

I am sorry MOM you dont deserve this. This is seriously a breech of trust. He even told you he was going to do this (your MB weekend). He wanted 2 weeks to get her out of his system <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I tell ya, a steep child support payment and some alimoney, NOT to mentin a few sales of his cars...would be like a FOG horn dont ya think?
I bet his NH LVN aint worth all that <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

If you are willing to save your marriage yet again, make sure he aint fence sitting. Seriously, I feel he is playing both ends of this because he just does not know what he wants.
He tells you what you want (we will call OW together) and Lord knows what he is telling her.

I cant comment on the plans, I dont know them
The experts here can help with that.

I wish luck and all the best. I will pray that you and your children are shielded from these childish games your H seems to be playing.
Love your son's and yourself. Your H seems to be taking care of no 1.
Take care MOM

Mom, I'm going to ask a question to the experts here about your situation. I have read on here from some of the male FWSs, I can't quite remember who, that what got them off the fence was a strong W. I'm not talking LBing here. However, to be clear about what you can and can't tolerate. Maybe I'm wrong, but from my perspective letting D2 know where you stand, and allowing him to choose his course of action is not being his mother. It is treating him like an adult. I would not expect him to call you constantly. That would be way too smothering.

I understand how you want H to make his decisions on his own about the NH and OW. In my situation, when I found out about the EA, I pretty much said OW's got to go. Maybe that was not a very good MB thing to do. I was clear that I could not work with him on repairing the M if she was with him every day. H had a choice. He could dump me and stay with her, or end it with her. I remember people here on the "Just Found Out" forum were pretty strong with me even before I knew it was an EA that she had to go. So my question, is it OK for mom to be clear about what she will need before she takes H back? Also, what's wrong with mom telling H she needs some time to think? To let him know EVERYTHING isn't according to what he wants. She can be very loving when she tells him this.

Mom, concerning whether you should know if he's been seeing her this whole time...wow, that's a tough one. For me, I'd want to know. I'd want to know what I am dealing with. If nothing else for you to know that you haven't been crazy with you feelings of suspicion. That's me! If you can't tolerate the truth right now maybe it's not the right time. CV

I thought about that too Stressed. I thought he called her to WARN her of this call! "just to let you know, I am calling you in front of W, so make it look good"...I just dont know..I ahve written to Harely and will await his answer!

He has to quit that NH...maybe until he is willing to do that, then I dont let him in? NH or marriage? you pick? Money or Marriage? No amount of MONEY si worth my marriage..shows where MY priorities are and his are!

you made me laugh - I know how hard it is to keep quiet when we know the answers.

But you also have clarity about what's at stake if you don't keep quiet and make him work.

If he could become the man you fell in love with again, and the only thing you had to do was be quiet so that he had invest enough of his heart and thought energy into solving the mess he made, would you keep quiet?

You're a smart lady, Mom. I'm sure you would.

If he gets exassperated with having to sweat the details out himself and says, "WELL, WHAT DO YOU WANT ME TO DO?" That's when you know that the quiet strategy is working.

The trick is coming back with a soft answer, "I want to know that I and our sons matter more than anything else. But my ideas didn't work last time around. So I think that maybe you might have some better ideas." and say it with enough respect and honor that he gets the idea that he's man enough to handle this mess without you parenting him into it.

CV55 that was my FWH who said that my being strong is what he needed to break him out of the fog. He needed to clearly hear that he had a choice to make..no if's ands or buts!

Mom..I think you are getting good advice here...listen to what he has to say before you say anything...not just listen but really LISTEN. Let him talk...the more he talks the better you'll understand where he's coming from and understanding where he's coming from is the best way for the two of you to formulate a plan.

I too did lots of LBing about the A and OW...however...I also learned to be a good listener. We both needed to listen to each other in order to recover...we needed to listen to hard truths about each other, our relationship and the A. We then needed to be willing to work on ourselves and our M...I believe that you and your H need IC not just MC. It took both for my H and I to recover.

I too set boundaries...NC was #1 on that list and was non-negotiable...telling the truth was also on the list and non-negotiable. Beyond that I believe that our plan was jointly agreed upon plan with us both making personal and marital changes.

My H also had a boundary...if he worked on himself and our M with 100% plus effort he required me to do the same...hence IC for me...he needed to also see permanent changes in me.

Hang in there!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by momto3boys:
<strong>Haven't you guys noticed I am not good at keeping my mouth shut! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How is it working for you ? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

This should be high on your plan A list !.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by redhat:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by momto3boys:
<strong>Haven't you guys noticed I am not good at keeping my mouth shut! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How is it working for you ? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

This should be high on your plan A list !. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not too good!

OK, I can do this! He is due home in about an hour! I can just be quiet! If he is serious about this, then he knows what he needs to do, right? I am so scared! I am really nervous. I just dont want to be twisted again and hurt again. I was SET for my Plan B and now he is ready to "talk"...Why do we do this...from what I see, believer keeps doing this over and over again! I dont think I could do that believer! You are strong! Or crazy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

OK, I need to prepare myself. I will be back after 6:00 when he leaves for work! Wish me luck! And prayers!

Tell him that you are scared ... be honest ... tell him that you don't wnat to get hurt again ... POJA with him ... let him offer you the ammends ... you could do it. I 've seen you in action when "he proposed to have 2 weeks w/ OW" ... you 've dealt with it and you could do it again.

It got nothin to do w/ luck, you could control it. You know if you plan B ... he would run to OW and 99% have PA.

Give him benefit of the doubt and if you want to plan B ... don't give him warning, just smile and do it after you talk to SH.

-rh-

rh, you make me smile! Why cant I be the way I was in that indian restaraunt all the time. i was very strong that day, wasn't I...I actually feel that strong right now. I know my limits and I know what I want. I WANT my H back and my M, but I am not going to put up with the waffling and fence sitting. I have made that clear, I think!

I need to practice my smiling and babble talk I guess!

OH wait...what about this NC thing. Should I let him call her in front of me like he wants to? Or go to the NH with him in person?

It takes practice ... this is plan A all about. You learn to modify your behavior ... sooner or later it becomes an instinct. Occational oopsh is normal, nobody is perfect.

If wants to calls her in front of you, take it but I think you should also ask H write a NC letter, complement of SAA ... you hand it to OW at NH w/o H!.

Keep contact between OW & H as minimum as possible.

One more thing, tell H that I say hello and he could call/IM me anytime.

-rh-

thanks rh! good idea of me giving NC letter without H there!

well, WH not home yet..I know he left office about 1:00, now it is 2:35..takes only one hour to get home! oh well!