trying to learn how to 100% lean on God alone. i feel like i am losing the fight.

i have no questions left to ask. i still accept confessing was the right thing to do. i am still grateful for the support giving to me while i worked on being able to do that.

i just wish i could feel more hopeful. I must not be doing the right things yet. leaving the marriage is no longer an option. till death, as the vows state, is what i want. i just find myself wishing death will come early.

{{{FL}}},

I'm sorry you are having a rough day. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I am sure it is so hard for you right now.Hard for both you and your H.Did something happen today to bring you down? A trigger maybe?

Have you old your H how you are feeling? Maybe he can help with some hugs and support.You can lean on God as much as you want but you also do need to lean on your H,he needs to help you in your time of need as he must be able to do with you.

Can you tell us exactly what you are feeling? Vent more of what is going on inside? With H?

O

thanks octobergirl

i don't trust myself enough to feel confident stating how we are doing.

of course how can i expect any support or better yet advice if i cannot even adequately state how things are going.

we are not going to any sort of counsoling nor reading any books. H is not open to that. He tells me I am not being pushy, which is good. We don't talk much about the A itself.

I don't feel like we are getting close. I have no right to vent about anything. I brought this all on myself.

unfortunately i have a mtg, i'll try to post more later.

Hi FL,
I just saw you replied to KnightMare. These are the types of people God sends to us to encourage us. You are doing the right thing. You will have emotional highs and lows, but if you keep seeking God, you will find Him. He is there, but doesn't answer our trials until we learn about His purpose for them. Trust me, He has a purpose for you, He made you for a reason. Try to rest in the fact that you are conflicted and searching. I know from my experience, the more I focus on my walk and changes, the more peace and joy I feel. God is all you need. You don't need a H or children, but they are His gifts to us. They bring us both joy and turmoil. But when you can have that intimate relationship with God, you become a giver, not looking for anyone to meet your needs.

Yes, God created marriage for companionship and created us with needs. By his design, we move through life and eventually find that our earthly relationships fail to meet all our needs. When they fail, we are left with a choice. We can seek God or we can seek other things to fill our needs. When we seek other things, we will again find that they will not meet our needs either. We hit bottom and are left broken. The only thing left is God. We come to Him broken and humble and he begins the process of changing us. He did not force us to come to Him, but He allowed trials and circumstances into our path knowing we will eventually come to Him.

I know where you are. You are placing the healing of your M above your R with God. I was doing the same thing. As I seek God first, the healing begins. God tells us that He will heal us. You still do everything you can do to meet your H’s needs and at the same time growing stronger in your faith.

You have a good heart and it is in the right place. I know you will hang in there because you know the wounds don’t heal overnight. God heals us and accomplishes His purpose at the same time. It would be great if you could find another Godly woman to help you in this process, that’s why I suggested Beth Moore to you.

Just to give you some encourage ment, it was a good weekend for my M. I believe now that my W is commited to our M and that she does love me again. I really have not felt that since October of 2001. As I look back, I see God’s hand in our M and He alone has held us together. God will do the same for you and eventually bring back the intimacy to your M. Accept what God brings you now and continue to seek Him.

Christ’s Love,
Roman

FL, we knew this would be a very long struggle. But well worth it. Hang in there you're going to be OK. And H will eventually come around. There are all kinds of highs and lows. Whatever it is, it will pass. Be good to yourself.

WOE

i don't know roman, maybe i am not really seeking Him correctly, maybe I am just not seeking Him period. I never finished the Beloved Disciple, I did not ever go back to book store to get the other book by Beth Moore.

maybe i am just having a couple of tough days. I KNOW there have been positives that have occured since D-day, there has to have been. but when i feel like i do today, i fear those positives are just in my imagination.

i wonder if i am just being a baby and not wanting to work hard enough at this. sat morning i just wanted H to know i still missed kissing him, is that such a bad thing to say?? he says that he has NO interest in kissing me because of where my mouth has been. why is my mouth ok to please him in other ways then?

i think the way things have been going is starting to have some seriously damaging impacts on me. but what other choice do i have??

<small>[ May 10, 2004, 03:24 PM: Message edited by: FinallyLearning ]</small>

FL,
You do have a choice. Think about what you are asking when you want him to kiss you. I know what you are going through. I have been there. You would not believe the rejection I have endured. When you go to your H to have your needs met he will hurt you because he is not ready to meet them. Through the rejection, you have a choice. You can seek somthing that will comfort you and satify your needs. If you choose the wrong thing, you will feel worse than before, but if you choose God, He will satisfy your need. That's where you are now. You are at a crossroads and it is exactly where He wants you.

When you go to your H for your needs, your taker is in control. When you go to God and have them met, He is there for you without fail. He will deliver His grace and help you endure the rejection. Then you can just love your H unconditionally. You become a giver. The hardest part is going through this maturation with God. You won't get all the answers at once. Just like your R with your H, your R with God will take time. But it will grow as you continue seking Him. You don't need a book. When you claim Christ as your Lord and Savior, you have the Holy Spirit to guide you. God's Word and other Christians play a part in the learning.

I really know how hard this is, but I can also say it is worth the pain. You will see it. God will reveal Himself to you in such deep ways as you go through the valley. Go to I Corinthians 13 to learn about His unconditional love and Psalm 23 for His promise to lead us through the difficult times. I know you are in a down time, but that is when we see God more clearly as He reveals Himself to you through your pain.

Christ's Love,
Roman

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Think about what you are asking when you want him to kiss you. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i didn't mean to be asking for something that was so offending.

but like you said, he is not ready to meet my needs.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Through the rejection, you have a choice. If you choose the wrong thing, you will feel worse than before, but if you choose God, He will satisfy your need. That's where you are now. You are at a crossroads and it is exactly where He wants you. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i have been really close to choosing bad. ok, actually i have been in touch with OM. we decided to get together last friday at a hotel we had been to many times before. i changed my mind just in time. (DON"T ANYONE GIVE ME A 2x4 FOR THIS!!! i will not get anything useful out of being beat up for this. i am beat up enough right now. and NO i did not tell my H and I am not going to.)

In case you missed it... I changed my mind just in time.

the point is, roman, you are very very right. i am in a major crossroad here and as you say, maybe this is exactly where i need to be in order to have the opportunity to seek God completely.

Ummm.

FL,

Did I read that right,you were in contact with OM last Friday and aborted a PA attempt???? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> That could be,no,is,the reason why you are down.ugh.Back to square one......

O

Dear Finally Learning.
I don't think I like your husband!

For him to humiliate you to the point that your lips are unkissable because of your past affair yet he is very willing for you to give him OS, makes me think he is not being at all nice to you! It seems he is trying to punish you!

No wonder you are being tempted to be with the OM...I am sure he treated you like a QUEEN and loved to kiss you, LOTS. Your husband is almost pushing you away!

Evidently you are in contact with OM again, and that is going to really really confuse you as you are trying to recover your marriage.
The memories of 'BLISS' with him will fog up your mind again!

But somehow, someway, that husband of yours better appreciate what he has in you and forgive your past sins or he is going to end up losing you.
Sincerely, Julie

<small>[ May 10, 2004, 08:03 PM: Message edited by: Blessed TIME ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Did I read that right,you were in contact with OM last Friday and aborted a PA attempt???? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">sorry, i wrote that wrong. It was a week ago friday that we almost got together. It was a week ago wed night when we first had contact, then nothing on thursday, but on friday a string of emails.

so i looked back at what was going on right before the contact started...

On wed morning, I posted: OT: How do i handle this?? didnt go very good
it was about an issue we had with our schedule. we didn't have a very productive conversation in my opinion but at least i felt i did ok. but later that night he let me know he did not think i had any right to question his judgement, if D was ok with it, i should not care.

then late thurs and friday morning, i posted: Selfish me wanting to come out.

It was shortly after i posted the last entry into that topic that i got the first email from OM on that day. He has historically not been the type to pressure me but because of the contact I initiated on wed night, he did. so some explanation there... on wed night, H went out with a buddy, i got onto yahoo, made a new id, just to play backgammon, but of course i looked to see if OM might be on and when i saw he was I contacted him.

there was no contact on thurs and i deleted the yahoo id. but then on friday he emailed me, i had taken off the filtering.. and obviously he decided he really wanted to have some fun because the emails were very playful. i told him i was resiting him this time, too bad for him, well that was playful back talk and he saw right thru it. at about 3pm i said yes. he was literally just pulling into hotel parking lot when i called him back and said no. he was actually very nice about it.

the next contact was made on wed when he sent me an email saying, sorry i did not say hi sooner, i've been busy, hope all is well, keep in touch.

i responded rather shortly, telling him i did not want to persue getting back together, i wanted to keep working on marriage. and then i put the filter back on my email so i don't know if he responded or not.

that gets you up to date with OM contact.

Then it was this sunday morning when i told H i was missing kissing him and that i wanted to understand what it meant that he did not want to kiss. he said it was just too hard. i told him what kissing meant to me, that kissing is something that really makes physical activity an intimate thing for me, makes it more personal. i asked him if there was another way he could convey that what we were doing was not just physical only if he was uncomfortable with kissing, he said he would try.

it was later that night when he re-brought up the morning chat and he started saying i had no right to put pressure on him that he told me the reason he didn't want to kiss is because of where my mouth had been <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

so that gets you up to date with that too.
tonight i have spent some time reading the bible, that has helped. H and I have not had much interaction with each other today. I am a bit anxious about going to bed tonight.

speaking of which i better get off computer now.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> i think the way things have been going is starting to have some seriously damaging impacts on me. but what other choice do i have??
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dear Finally Learning,

You don't know me, but I've been following your story, and I admire your desire to improve your life and the quality of your marriage. Your husband doesn't want to get counseling, but what about you? I may have missed something, but I get a sense that you lack a strong base of support. When the going gets tough, there aren't real people (friends, family, counselor) to turn to.

God is good, yes, but I don't think you can ignore the psychological issues that are undermining those spiritual issues. Getting help for your personal issues might free you up to address marital issues, and I think those go way beyond the affair. Take care of yourself. Your husband isn't in a place to take care of you. Don't give yourself into oblivion. Get some support. Find somebody safe to talk to. These issues cannot be dealt with by will power alone. Some things require professional help as well as prayer. I'm concerned about you. Your kids need you to be okay.

I wish someone who knows more than I do would make suggestions about the IC. I don't think you need to be beat up or hit with 2x4. I think you need some practical advice for addressing your real life support issues.

Take care,

DeNovo

FL:

How are you doing today? Better I hope.

Your husband is hurt and is saying some very damaging things to you . . . especially the stuff about where you mouth has been. You need to stop putting yourself in the position where your husband can reject you for a while. Back off and let him cool down a bit.

Many men cannot/will not forgive a physical affair. The visual imagery is powerful . . . most men are very visual creatures . . . this may be part of the reason porn captivates so many of them (I'm digressing, sorry). Some see the physical contact as a death knell to their pride. I have no idea if your husband is this way but he is reacting maliciously and if things continue on this road the future of your marriage does not look bright. Who wants to be with someone who tells you you that your mouth is so tainted that it can’t be kissed?

Be kind and try not to take what he says at face value. If the verbal slander continues make it clear that what he is doing isn't endearing him to you. Even though you made a mistake you still deserve to be treated respectfully. Hate the sin but love the sinner and all that jazz.

Have patience . . . and stop contacting the OM if you wish to repair your marriage. If not, then leave and shack-up with OM. It is not fair to your husband to keep in contact with your lover while you two are living as man and wife.

This business is horrible and everyone involved becomes damaged. The game is to survive and build something better. It is not easy at all.

Cheers,

CN


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by FinallyLearning:
<strong> i just find myself wishing death will come early. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Stop that. Do not threaten suicide. If it becomes so bad that you really feel like ending your life, LEAVE. PERIOD. No marriage is worth your life. O.K.?

Devono, thanks for the post. truthfully, i am blessed with many loving friends and family members. maybe i am not good at consistently openning up. i hate to be a burdon.

I am closest to my older sister but she has been having so much of her own issues, i don't think she is capable of supporting me the correct way. she knew about the A all along, she thought it was understandable, even acceptable behavior. a bit of explanation here... she was married to an abusive alcoholic person. she got involved on the internet first, in fact hearing about her chatting activities is what prompted me to go into a chat room back in april 2000. her story is so much different than mine. she had friends she met off internet and is actually dating a guy now. she finally left her H sept 2002 and the divorce became final sept 2003. i helped support her throughout all of this, going to court and such. her needs were much more important. and so i didn't talk much about what was going on with me. so she knew about the OM, but she thought he brought me happiness and i deserved that.

at one time i confided in my older brother about marriage issues and his advice was to have an A <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> i didn't talk to him about it anymore.

i have friends i could lean on, a few very close friends and very supportive, but i just cannot lean on someone that much. it is just too much to ask for. everyone has their own issues and life demands.

so that leaves counsoling. well, i have tried that path too. the first MC/IC told me he didn't think my H loved me and ended up encouraging me to seek a divorce. i stopped seeing that counsoler. actually he told me he would not continue with me because i told him i did not want to take steps towards a divorce. i trusted him, i thought he could help but i didn't want to be bullied into a divorce. that didn't seem right.

early in 2001 (this was shortly before A began) i had a breakdown and was put in a mental health day program for about 1 month. that helped stabilize me, i was seriously suicidal at the time. this occured right after my dad died.

speaking of that... my comment of: "i just find myself wishing death will come early." was NOT meaning i am thinking of suicide. i am NOT. but i have been having health issues, and i am not following up on them. i don't think any of the issues is any big deal but sometimes i kind of think about how maybe it is and that would be good, i would not want to heal so why do to doctor. these feelings are not at all sucidal thoughts, i just don't have much enthusiasm about living a long life. i'm 40.

when i came out of the day program, i really didn't adjust back into work and normal life again, there was a bunch of layoffs at work, and re-organizations, my project was killed but i was moved to a different one. i just could not get back into a grove, i still have not, i have been floundering horrible ever since. but the company is so messed up, so far i have not been challanged by a supervisor. i have had 4 superviors in the past 2 yrs. re-orgs and one sup got laid off too. i have not been with one sup long enough for them to figure out how bad my productivity has gotten. i have historically been a very very strong employee. it was 2-3 months after going back to work that the A started.

H and I again did MC and I did a few IC sessions with and new counsoler (and yes i told her about A) in 2002-2003 but it was more MC than IC.

several church women knew i was in crisis mode (due to openning up at a church retreat, including telling one woman about the affair, which had just started at that time). there was a Stephen Minister assigned to me, a woman from the retreat, and she would call me to check in with me, but i generally told her things were going ok.

the thought of trying to find a IC now is just too hard. i have thought about it, but trying to find a person that i trust and then trying to explain everything is so overwhelming. i not so sure my H would even support any counsoling at this time. he feels betrayed that the counsoler did not push me to confess.

Comfortable Numb,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> and stop contacting the OM if you wish to repair your marriage. If not, then leave and shack-up with OM. It is not fair to your husband to keep in contact with your lover while you two are living as man and wife </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">you are 100% absolutely right. The filter is back on my email, OM does not know my cell number because that was changed. i will not answer the phone here at work if it is an outside line that I do not know. it was just stupid of me to contact OM. there is NOTHING there for me. there really never was.

I vow to post here if i get tempted to make contact and DIRECTLY state what i am thinking of doing, BEFORE i do anything. i don't want to go down that path anymore. it is unfair to H and it is unhealthy for me. i really do know this. i won't let the fog back in.

It was shortly after i posted the last entry into that topic that i got the first email from OM on that day. He has historically not been the type to pressure me but because of the contact I initiated on wed night, he did. so some explanation there... on wed night, H went out with a buddy, i got onto yahoo, made a new id, just to play backgammon, but of course i looked to see if OM might be on and when i saw he was I contacted him.

Guess what....by contacting OM, you are continuing your affair, even though it's only on an emotional level. How can you be true to your H, ask him for his love, and then contact OM??? Does your H know that you contacted him??? You want his trust but then violate the ONE thing that can bring it back....No Contact. I'm sorry,I just don't understand why you would do that.

FL,
When I read your reply about contact, it was like I was punched in the gut. The reason I am telling you this is because I want you to know that there are people who care what happens to you. I understand why you chose the A, it was because you felt rejected and wanted comfort. God understands too!

I am not going to judge your H because I can't see his heart. I know it hurts you when he tells you those things. He should not say those things. Please try to understand it is not him saying those things. Can you think back when you were in the fog? When you may have said or thought some hurtful things? I don't know, but if I held the things my W said to me against her, I would never have recovered from this circumstance. She told me things that hurt me to the core and over a long period of time.

I really think it would help you to seek forgiveness the way God intends for it to be given. If you don't forgive him every time he hurts you, the pain will turn to anger and resentment. You must forgive as Christ forgave us. Do you think you have been forgiven by God for the A? Do you think He forgave you for the latest contact? I guarantee that He has forgiven you. Have you accepted His forgiveness? Read Ephesians 4:32 over and over. You can forgive as Christ forgives. I know you can. I have forgiven my W over and over, every time she hurt me.

The other part is forgetting. You need to forgive an forget. Just as God has washed away our sin, as if it has never existed!! You can do it. Sure there will be triggers and you will probabbly be hurt again. But you are strong and you have God. Forgive and forget just has Christ has done for us.

I can speak boldly because I know His way works. I have seen the results. Our walk with God always involves pain because God uses the trials to bring us closer to Him. God wants you. I noticed a reply about counseling. I agree it would be good for you to have a Godly friend or counselor to help you be accountable. Just don't think that is the only answer. God will do the work in you. My prayer is that he continues to send Godly people into your path to help you. This site is what God used for me along with some very timely books. But God does the healing.

I know you hurt, but if you endure it will get better. The pain is worth the result. You want an intimate marriage with love and affection. It can be yours. But it won't be if you give up. I am glad you chose the right path. You rejected the old way which will leave you empty and lonely. God has a purpose for you and a reason for this trial. It is for your good. You have shown trust in His way and plan for you. Please keep seeking that path, you won't ever regret it.

Christ's Love
Roman

<small>[ May 11, 2004, 10:10 AM: Message edited by: Roman121 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> When I read your reply about contact, it was like I was punched in the gut. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">roman, i am very sorry. i knew many here would be hurt, disappointed and/or sadden by my action. i guess that is why i was so quiet last week. i didn't want to have to admit it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

InGreatPain, i have no good answer for you other than i am weak and i seem to be determined to destroy myself. but in doing so i will hurt my H and family. i will not be weak again. i am glad i stopped myself from going thru with anything on a physical level. i know it is not much but at least i did that. and i have put measures (the email filter) back in place.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Can you think back when you were in the fog? When you may have said or thought some hurtful things? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">yes, my actions/words were hurtful at times.

forgiveness. i am trying to not hold on to anything, to fogive all hurts. H has done some loving things too. my head is told God forgives all sins. i honestly don't feel it deep down. i feel like an outsider. i don't feel i am included in the group. i mostly just feel like such a screw up. and my head knows i cannot focus on that. all that does is keep me from being able to be productive in putting good habits into practice. i'm not strong enough for all this stuff.

FL sorry I haven't posted to you in a bit but I've been reading about what's been happening in your situation.

You say your not strong enough for this, I think you are. I mean you were in an A and then by your H's actions you recommited to your M. I think it takes a really strong person to come out of the fog of an A and recommit to their M.

I don't think the way your H is treating you is right either, but I think recovery takes time.

How long did it take you to get your feelings back for your H while in the A? I'm sure it didn't take a month it probobly took a while so hang in there, I'm praying for you.

FL,
My reaction was not disappointment or sadness or even hurt, but it was more about compassion for your struggle. Do you think God is hurt by our actions? Just something to think about. God wants you to be restored. He wants your marriage to be restored. It really starts with forgiveness for both you and your H. Don't withdraw when he hurts you. Like you encouraged me, keep reaching out to him.

I have a question. Do you think God wants you to feel unforgiven? I can really understand how you would feel this way. It is not how God operates in our lives. We can do nothing to merit God's forgiveness. Our sin, past, present and future has been forgiven at the cross. That's why Jesus went to the cross willingly. It is God's design. He takes broken people and restores them so that we can glorify him.

I read about your attempts to get help. Do you see the way God is working? He is saying to you to seek Him because He is all you need. All of us are flawed and make mistakes all the time. It is our realization that we are not strong enough to do this on our own. We are all weak and that is when God's grace is most evident. We are literally too weak to move forward and endure. His grace is sufficient and will move you through the dark valleys and redeem us. It is when we need to rely on His strength, because that is the only thing left.

I know this is heavy, but I really think you are so close to victory and want to share with you my thoughts and what I think God is leading me to do. I don't want my trial to be wasted. I want to share what God has done for me. I want to be salt and light to you and others. He is real and so is His power. You're right, you're not strong enough for this stuff, but He is!! Go to Him, He is there, ready, willing and available to get you through.

Christ’s Love,
Roman