Hello.

I carry with me insatiable loneliness. I've felt it as long as I can remember.

In grade school, I was a bit of a square. For some reason, my parents never took that much time to teach me how to get ready. So I would often come to school and my hair wouldn't be brushed or my shirt would be on backwards or something goofy like that.

Junior high wasn't much better until I figured out I could become more popular through humor. I became the class clown and gained a lot of attention. In high school I became involved in drama and music. By the time I graduated I was very popular. I had become somewhat of a student leader in my areas of interest (drum major/lead in the plays), but I used a lot of cynical humor to prop me up.

Growing up my two best friends had NO problems with girls. In fact, they were treated more like models than kids. Meanwhile, I was usually laughed at or called "gross" by girls. By high school or college, I suppose I had become somewhat attractive. However, I had no skill in talking to women... the whole thing being alien to me.

After college I finally became much more comfortable with talking to them. I met my wife (who IS extraordinarily beautiful and is constantly told she should be a model). We got married. Now five years have passed. My wife is now even more beautiful than the day I met her (literally).

The problem is my insatiable loneliness that only terminates through acquiring the attention of women. That is to say, nothing makes me feel better in the whole world than to gain the attentions of women. To me, being attractive to women is one of the most important measures to success.

I don't know why I am like this or what to do about it. I just want to know: Does anyone else struggle with this? If so have you figured out the solution? Am I a freak?

I have this terrible feeling I will struggle with this messed up sense of values the rest of my life.

I wonder if there is anything my wife can do to help? Or is this hopeless? I consider my longing loneliness to be *irrational*. It's not logical; consequently, I wonder if my wife CAN do anything about it.

Just to clarify, I don't hit on other women and I try to make it clear to people I meet I am married. Nevertheless, there is this gaping vulnerability in me and I worry it is only a matter of time before I give in.

Any words would be appreciated.

Thanks,

John G

Here's the mess I was/am in:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=028003#000000

Take a bow for being aware of your vulnerability before an affair had started. Have you told your W of your thoughts? Maybe she can meet some of this need for you. Also, you may want to see a counselor to address this unresolved issue that you seem to have brought into your M. I'm glad you're seeing all this before making some drastic, and possibly adulterous, decisions.

Maybe it has something to do when you were in school since you didn't pick up on the ladies. You saw the other guys able to pick them up and now that's how you judge success. JMHO I'm no shrink or anything. Just food for thought.

Yes. I think it is related to that.

I've talked to my wife about these feelings. She knows about them, but she is either unwilling or unable to help me with it.

At times, she's even made me feel stupid for having these feelings. (Kind of like "what's the problem?") All her life she has been the recipient of attention from countless men. Even when men know she's married they try to convince her to go out with them. "I'll give you what your man can't." That nonsense. She never falls for it.

The whole issue became an acute problem six weeks ago when a coworker started warming up to me and I responded to her. (That's recorded elsewhere--see link above--and it is becoming a problem again.)

I believe the "need" this corresponds to in _His Needs, Her Needs_ is "admiration". I'm looking for admiration... but I have a tremendous appetite for it. I don't want to impress, I want to mesmerize! I'm such a wretched fool.

Now when I say I want admiration my wife says she can't compete with my coworker so she gets upset.

???? What a mess.

Maybe if you do things for her and meet her needs she'll show you the admiration that you need. Like if you do sweet things for her she'll do the same for you which show's admiration.

I thought about your post a while....cause it bugged me...

and I'm just gonna ramble at you...
take what serves you....

You keep doing the same things over and over again....and you keep getting the same results...

you keep going out and seeking attention...
you really don't "need" it....
you like it...
it's comfortable...
and it's familiar....

and you choose to seek out the attention time and time again....

so much of this is really your choice and your attitude about life and your marriage...

you choose other woman over and over and over again over your own wife....

and while you may be victim to its familiarity...you're defeinitely not victim to the acts that you take to be
charming
to other woman...
you choose that behavior...
and each time you choose it hurts you and your wife...

because the reality is that marriage and your vows have great meaning....
and deep down you know that...
yet you seek out others to challenge that thought with
innocent and then not so innocent flirting

over and over and over again...

the valueing of your vows...you really putting the energy and thougts into your vows and what really honoring those vows and your wife means...

if you really did the work that's involved in that...the thought of mocking, degrading, and taking lightly your marriage vows...would repulse you...and woman that came to you and flirted with such disrepect to you, your vows, and your wife would rupulse you as well...

there is nothing more pathetic out there to me than a man who even thinks that he could one up my husband...and even alludes to that in flirting banter to me...
not because mr. ark is greater or better than anyone...but because I value mr. ark greater than others in MY life....on my own...

It is your actions that keep your wife from being able to fill your needs.....
because you aggressively seek it from others...

our marriage vows are not words...they are actions...to love
to honor
to cherish....

each time you actively seek to mesmerize other women...you dishonor all that you vowed to do...

you do it because you can
you do it because you always have
you do it because you choose to do it...
you do it because you have wired your brain to do it...
you do it because the known is always less scary than the unknown....

you can be married...and have lots of acquantances and friends that enrich your life...without mesmerizing OW....

you can gather to you those that celebrate your union with your wife...and find that life is simple and enjoyable....fullfilling and complete..

or you can choose to be a cad... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

ARK

john_g,

You have good insight into how you are and why you are that way. You're doing a good job of addressing things before things get horrible. Many people are unable or unwilling to see themselves clearly and to make necessary improvements.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now when I say I want admiration my wife says she can't compete with my coworker so she gets upset.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why does she think she can't compete? If she believes that then I bet she's totally torn up. Can you imagine, thinking your H is slipping away from you and feeling powerless to prevent it?

Get her to open up about this. It might help if you give her some examples of ways in which you like to be admired (if it doesn't come across as bossy). Maybe she's thinking admiration has to be professional, so she can't compete with OW who sees you in your professional environment so much. Maybe she doesn't realize she can admire you for keeping the cars running and the oil changed, for treating your W well, for keeping the yard nice, for being well read and interesting to talk to...

I'd like to add something to ark's statement...which by the way was excellent advice.

I think that while you are putting forth so much effort to have your own needs met you are not meeting the needs of your "should be a model" wife.

Might I suggest that you put some energy into meeting your W's needs. You may not realize this but your recent actions and your constant need for admiration has left her feeling unfullfilled with her M. She probably feels like it doesn't matter what she does she will never make you happy and this leaves her open to have her own A.

I suggest you listen to the words of Ark and make a decision here:

Do you want to be married or do you want to be PROM KING?

I don't mean to send a 2x4 and I'm not down playing your EN for admiration. I think it's a valid need. I do not think you are going about meeting that need in a healthy way.

jg:

"Growing up my two best friends had NO problems with girls. In fact, they were treated more like models than kids. Meanwhile, I was usually laughed at or called "gross" by girls. By high school or college, I suppose I had become somewhat attractive. However, I had no skill in talking to women... the whole thing being alien to me."

So now that you're grown up, are you grown up?

-ol' 2long

While I don't support your behavior toward the coworker (at all), I think I may understand how you're feeling. My first impression after reading your initial posts on this thread was that you seem terribly envious of the attention your wife receives from others of the opposite sex. It also appears that you have a "need" to prove to yourself that you can compete with her in this regard. In a nutshell, could the root of this issue be poor self-esteem on your part?
It may be difficult for you to maintain a sense of self worth if you tend to compare yourself with her.

John,

What was the relationship like with your mother growing up?

O

I think I might have a similar situation. For me, being picked on was pretty alienating, and it left me with some severe self esteem issues. Instead of becoming the class clown, I shaved myself a mowhawk, put roofing nails into the holes of my combat boots and generally told everyone to bugger off.

Of course this worked for a while until everyone started thinking I was 'cool' and then it started with the girls.

Female attention became the ultimate drug for me, not only was sex new, fun and exciting, my self esteem was completely (temporarily) gratified.

Needless to say, this has led to many problems for me in the relationships over the course of my life.

I had the same issues with my wife... and got the same kind of response. Wether she could or could not compete wasn't the issue, I really felt like she never tried. Admiration... physical lust... very similar concepts for me... not sure if it's an EN or a psych-problem...

Anyway, the bottom line, is you have to deal with this before it destroys you. Take it from me. Cause I'm now tasting what REAL loneliness feels like. I'm not saying you don't feel lonely right now, but just imagine that your wife is 5 hours drive away, having her needs met by someone else and is showing little to no real interest in saving your marriage.

Trust me. You want to avoid that.

One way to do that is to jump on these issues right away. Learn about Emotional Needs... get counselling if you can... but don't let this go on.

dewt

I originally wrote a really whiny post, but there is no point in posting that. It just recapitulates what I've already said.

No doubt, I am a sociopath, an egomaniac or something worse.

The advice here is great and I will try it. I will try to meet my wife's needs and hope this overpowering feeling diminishes.

I'll try to grow up, 2long--rationally tell myself my feelings are goofy (they are).

I don't want to be a Prom King. Hehe. (Point well made.) And I'll try to be more than a cad. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Thank you all for your input.

Jg

John,

maybe my Prom King comment was uncalled for. I do apologize if I seemed to be unconcerned about your issue with a need for admiration. It just really hit home with my situation.

I read my husband in your post. I could totally see where he would need the attention and admiration of others. It took courage and a lot of soul searching to post this. I admire that in you and all of your posts. I've read most if not all of your posts.

Anyway, I do hope you try to find a happy medium with your desire to be wanted by all that come in contact with you. I think you will find all your needs met by your wonderful wife if you give her the chance.

I wish you luck.

John,

I opened your thread because of the title.

I think it is very admirable that you came here BEFORE you acted on your feelings. I did the same. I do not work outside the home (4 kids) and I am married to a Physician, which means I am ALONE alot. Even though my house is full I feel very lonely. I had waviered going outside my marriage, but coming here has really opened up my eyes.

I know 2 things 1. I love my H 2. I love my kids
I would never want to create pain for them that I have seen on this site.

Admiration is a great thing. You talk of not recieving it growing up, but now that you are all grown up and more confident you like what you are expirencing. Well it can go both ways.
I am more like your wife, I had been popular in HS and College, admiration was never a problem.
You can get really used to it (never had to "act" on it) It does become normal.

Guess the point I am trying to make is, WHO is attending to your wives admiration needs while you are all infactuated with the 25 y/o??
I am a mother of 4, in my mid 40's I dont have a problem with getting a head turn.
Now your W being young and gorgeous with no "baggage" (other than a H) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> is getting ignored by her H while he is flirting with another woman, whom you THINK is interested??
John, This can really explode in your face. Just read here dont stop until you can SEE VERY CLEARLY. Children or not read the devestation.
Could you do this to your W ?

No matter how much admiration you need you will never be able to look yourself in the mirror and like what you see.

I cant keep a train of thought. I have 3 out of the 4 yaking about a basketball game <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Good luck John just keep on reading..

Heroswife and Stressedoutmom, thank you for your comments. They are insightful and I appreciate them.

I know I touch raw nerves when I am honest here about my temptations. I understand the responses.

I'm sorry. This is the ONLY place I have to be completely honest. I wish I could discuss all this with my wife. But we aren't quite there yet. Or I'm not quite there or whatever.

Here's the basis for the "loneliness" post above:

Two weeks ago I shut out my coworker. I was polite, but obviously closed to her. This led to a week of awkwardness. I told my wife I was going to do this. She agreed.

For the week that followed that, my wife asked me how it was going. She and I had good communication.

One week ago, I needed to talk to my coworker about my students... and the conversation became fueled with that unhealthy sensuality it had had in the past. I dropped the "closed" attitude toward her partly because I hated the awkwardness and partly (I admit) because I like talking to her.

From Monday thru Thursday of last week we talked every night.

Part of this problem was I idiotically assumed the "counselor" role on an issue my coworker had. This is always a terrible idea and it's a cheap "in" when it comes to excuses for deep conversation.

That whole week consisted of extreme one-sided compliments from her:
-Compliments on dress
-Compliments on teaching
-Compliments on what a great father I'll be
-She'd be unhappy if she can't talk to me regularly
-She looks for me on breaks so she can talk to me
-I'm a great guy/nice guy, etc.
-I need to come to an upcoming school event (yes, my wife is welcome to come... tho she didn't mention that until I asked)

Now these compliments had a devastating effect on me in that I couldn't stop thinking about her. It was affecting performance at both my jobs because of my frustration over the moral issues with this.

If I had seen her Friday night and if she had asked me for drinks or something after work (Friday class let out early because of finals), I would've said yes. I have no doubt.

So, I deserve NO ACCOLADES for coming here first. God's grace saved me that night.

By Monday of this week, I knew something had to change. I BROKE the advice of people here and simply told this coworker to stop complimenting me because--as a married man--it wasn't good to hear those things. I didn't say much else, but I should've.

So NOW she knows she is a temptation to me, but she also feels completely awkward around me.

One thing that is helping me is that I have NEVER said I am dissatisfied with my life. I've always spoken positively of my wife and never bad-mouthed her. My behavior is still completely inexcusable...

My coworker kept saying she "didn't mean to cause any harm." I honestly DON'T know what she was trying to do. I find it hard to believe that her compliments were completely innocent.

Meanwhile, my wife hadn't asked about this coworker since the first week I shut the coworker out. Last night she did ask. I said the coworker was "keeping her distance"... which is technically true, but we all know I wasn't really being honest since I omitted the events of last week.

On top of this, if (and probably when) this coworker starts to feel betrayed (because I am shutting her out again) then she can make my life at work VERY hard.

How do I initiate NC with someone I HAVE to see everyday as part of my job? My conclusion is I have to leave this job (I want to). If I left this job and never saw this person again, I would be fine. I think in a few days I would be completely fine. But if I have to see her everyday I am going to be tempted.

I can't leave this job until I get a raise at my day job. This is my dilemma. The night job adds about $20K a year to our income... and (as noted elsewhere) my wife and I took on more bills than we should've (against my protest). I can't make that kind of money by picking up a part time pizza delivery job.

This is my situation. Thoughts, etc. would be highly valued. Thank you.

Again john so much of this is your steering and driving exactly where you want it to go and be...

I BROKE the advice of people here and simply told this coworker to stop complimenting me because--as a married man--it wasn't good to hear those things. I didn't say much else, but I should've.

You rebuke not by defending your own values and belief in your vows...
not by defending your wife and the deep love and respect you have (should) have for her...

you rebuked her by giving the impression that you are attracted to her and weak....

Can you see that...

you send out flirty signals..
they respond.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

And I am not convinced that the issue is NOT that your wife doesn't address your needs for admiration...
I am not convinced that
1. you let her
2. you value her efforts so there for she gives up
3. that you get the same emotinal charge from her compliments...then you get from a OP...

If I left this job and never saw this person again, I would be fine.

really or would you just find your new other person to schmoooze and stroke your ego...

remember wherever you go...
there YOU are...

ARK

John,

Your situation and mine are very similar. It could have been MY husband writing this post.

My husband also has a strong need for admiration and I did not really realize that until he was already involved in an EA. Many things in our marriage were really good, others were not. We had some problems in the past (mainly SF), but we worked those out together and there have not been any issues in a very long time.

But I now know that I probably did a very poor job in the area of admiration or at least not enough. I'm not sure why because I'm extremely proud of my H and his accomplishments, but I guess work, stress and life just got in the way. There really is no excuse, but I should have shown him more how much I appreciate him as a man, a friend and a husband.

The OW in my husband's life was a lot like your co-worker. She has LOTS of problems, LOTS of stuff going on in her life and my husband was there as her counselor and guide through life. He is a good listener, handsome and he can make a woman feel very good about herself. These are some of the attributes that attracted me to him.

What started out as a very innocent friendship between him and her quickly evolved in a different way because she became infatuated with him. She told him the EXACT same things that your co-workers is telling you and undoubtedly it made him feel really good. More and more he became intangled in this situation and then she started asking him out for coffee, drinks, parties etc. He told her that he was married and she said that she understood and didn't want to 'hurt me' or 'come between us', but she really liked him... The rest is history...

My H grew more and more distant from me, started nagging me, yelling, fighting and I started getting this horrible feeling that something was terribly wrong.

At the same time he also gets very jealous because he feels that I get a lot of attention from men. Not to sound conceded, but I am also very attractive and I have a great body and even some of his own friends like me a lot and they like to flirt with me. I love my husband very much and I would never do anything to hurt him and I have always put his friends/other men in their place, in a firm, but friendly way.

When all this started happening, I felt very lonely and I felt betrayed and lied to because I could not understand why my H was not able to be strong enough to withstand the advances of this woman. I became extremely depressed and men start picking up on that, let me tell you. It has been extremely difficult for me not to fall into the arms of another guy because there are plenty of them just waiting for this opportunity. Just like one of the previous posters wrote. Be careful what you wish for, your wife is beautiful and young with no baggage... Let me tell you, it is very very difficult not to give into temptation. Don't think that you are the only one tempted... One can only be hurt for so long.

I know that the admiration that you get from your co-worker feels very good, but if you really want your marriage to succeed, you gonna have to stop this altogether. The hell with the extra money. Maybe you can find a job somewhere else or tighten up the belt for a little while.

Do it now, John, or you may find yourself in a situation that you did not wish for....

Good luck to you!
Kati

My H also grew up mostly ignored by girls. His family did not have the money for cool clothes, he had buck teeth and was also the class clown. I think he had very low self-esteem growing up and endured much hurt.

He has now grown into a very handsome, successful man and I think he always seeks the constant attention and admiration of women to compensate for the hurt he endured while growing up.

While I understand all this, it is extremely difficult to live with a man who needs constant outside attention from women and who flirts shamelessly right in front of my face whether it with the waitress and the restaurant, co-worker, sales girl etc.

Kati


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by dewt:
Female attention became the ultimate drug for me, not only was sex new, fun and exciting, my self esteem was completely (temporarily) gratified.

Needless to say, this has led to many problems for me in the relationships over the course of my life.

dewt [/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Ark, thanks for being honest. You are so honest. It's welcomed. You're right. My actions and desires are at the heart of this problem. Even my attempts to fix things encourages more destruction. I'm double-minded, saying one thing but wanting another. My only option here is to repent, ask for my wife's forgiveness, put her needs first, and look to her and my marriage to fulfill my own needs.

Kati, it helps to know that I am not the only guy who struggles with these feelings. My story does sound similar to your husband's.

Maybe you would have some thoughts on this:

One thing that makes it difficult for me to accept my wife's admiration is that she doesn't respect things that are important to me. She tells me "You're too serious." I can't get too concerned about even my own friends and family or she'll get jealous. If I were to call my mom even once a week she would be upset. We have no regular friends because she doesn't want ANYONE knowing too much about her or her life. She's so sensitive to criticism she does not have even one friend. (I'm serious, she literally has not one friend.) We can't do anything with my friends and their wives because she can't get along with the women. She'll insist one of them was trying to badmouth her. I told her I was worried about a friend and his wife's relationship. ALL I SAID was that I was going to lend my friend the His Needs/Her Needs tapes I have. She said I should "mind [my] own business" and not get involved.

I'll say something like "as Christians we have to try to help others" and she'll say "if God wants to help them He doesn't need us." This means "No, we aren't helping."

So I even get deprived of any admiration that might come from having a normal life.

Now before someone tells me that this is all because I don't meet her needs, I just want to clarify that my wife has ALWAYS been this way--since the first day I met her. And I've tried the supportive approach. (And now I just give her her way most of the time.) She has gotten better over the years as I helped her understand that I need friends, but it still frustrating.

The next problem I see in our future is the visit to my family in five weeks. By week's end she is going to be really upset because we've spent the whole week visiting friends and family of mine. (Her family is in Zimbabwe and U.K.) So I'm going to be put on a guilt trip for seeing friends and family I haven't spent time with in two-and-a-half years. We're visiting U.K at year's end to see her sister, niece, nephew etc. so it's not like I'm going to be doing something she won't get to do.

Sorry, I'm just venting--trying to figure this out.

Jg

P.S.

Found a quote that maybe others can relate to as much as I did:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">To believe that if we could but have this or that we would be happy is to suppress the realization that the cause of our unhappiness is in our inadequate and blemished selves. Excessive desire is thus a means of suppressing our sense of worthlessness.

Eric Hoffer</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">