WW and OMs affair has been exposed over 5 weeks ago. I now know most of the details, basically by asking my WW. I never called OMW. After I exposed everything, my wife and OM talked. He has supposedly told his wife that he was having an A (i believe this), but she didn't want to know anything about it. OMW has chosen to bury her head in the sand and not address the infidelity. OMW does NOT know that her husband's affair partner is my W, his ex-secretary. I feel that this is important since they work at the same company, although different offices. W insists there has been NC for 3 weeks now. Here's my dilemma: Do I still call OMW and reveal that her husband and my wife are the affair partners or do I let it go. I'm concerned that if I do call OMW, it will give OM an excuse to call my wife and re-establish contact. Any ideas??? Not sure what to think.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by InGreatPain:
<strong>After I exposed everything, my wife and OM talked. He has supposedly told his wife that he was having an A (i believe this), but she didn't want to know anything about it. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why do you believe this?

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">W insists there has been NC for 3 weeks now.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And this?

I guess I believe that because I still want to trust...obviously a strategy that has not worked in the past. I'm going to assume that you believe I should be on the phone right now.

I recommend you not believe anything you hear, and only half of what you see.

Before you contact OMW, do you have hard evidence you can provide?

You MUST contact her, but without some good evidence, she may blow you off. Also, DO NOT hint to your wife that you're going to do this.

Same company, huh?

Depending on what happens when you contact OMW, you may have to take anoherer quick step to alert the company of potential sexual harrassment if there is or was a boss/worker situation.

Read the posts by ChristyV to get some insight on exposing in the workplace.

So, first step - tell us what evidence you have.

Do you know OMW?

WAT

Oh,I had evidence....sex related greeting cards and cell phone bills.I confronted her and she admitted to the affair. She's since answered all questions I have brought to her. Proof is not in question. As far as sexual harassment in the workplace, no I don't think that's and issue here. They were both willing participants in the A.

I do know the OM as he was my Ws boss for 3 years.He was transfered to another office 17 months ago. They do see each other at company functions. I would visit my W on occassion and would see OM. We have also been on company wide trips (both spouses) with OM and OMW.

For a good portion of their PA, OM would drive to meet my W at a hotel during workhours.

Do you still have the evidence? You'll need to at least offer it to OMW.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by InGreatPain:
<strong>As far as sexual harassment in the workplace, no I don't think that's and issue here. They were both willing participants in the A.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If he was her boss during any portion of the affair, it was, by definition, sexual harassment. He had "power" over her and she could claim she had no choice but to submit. Another employee could have been aware of what was happening and "assume" that submission was an expected posture in the workplace. I'm not an attorney, but I've had enough sexual harassment training over and over and over to know the pitfalls. She could take him and the company to the cleaners if she ever gets her head out of her butt. But that's not my point. The company should be VERY sensitive to any appearance of potential sexual harassment and would very likely take some action right away if they caught wind of it. I'm not suggesting you play this card quite yet, just don't forget about it.

When the affair was exposed 5 weeks ago, to whom was it exposed? Have you approached your wife about sending a no contact letter? Has she agreed to counseling?

The best way to expose the affair to OMW is by sending her a copy of the NC letter. Assuming she hasn't even written one, you should gauge her willingness to do this, and depending on this assessment, make a plan to expose to OMW yourself.

WAT

<small>[ May 11, 2004, 11:54 AM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

A was exposed to my family (except father--although he's aware there are serious problems). She decided to tell her sister and 3 friends (after the guilt hit her). She's furious that my family knows everything and I fear that this may be an obstacle to reconsiliation if she ever decides to recommit. I'll live with that.

I haven't brought up idea of NC letter in weeks because she told me they weren't going to contact each other so that they could give their Ms "the attention they deserve". I feel I may need to again. Unfortunately, W has told me that OM still may need to call her, if just to be transfered to my wife's current boss. Yes, lame...she can easily have him call direct I guess. Does her direct boss need to know?? That would be REAL tough on her,but hey,our M is more important.

OM was NOT her boss at the time of A so I don't think sexual harassment is an issue.

I'm getting some conflicting opinions as to whether OMW should be contacted here after W has already said there will not be contact and A is over. But if he still calls to talk to her boss at some point in the future (you know that will happen), then contact is established all over again. I guess I need some clarification from her on this.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by InGreatPain:
<strong>I'm getting some conflicting opinions as to whether OMW should be contacted here after W has already said there will not be contact and A is over.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Really? From who?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>I haven't brought up idea of NC letter in weeks because she told me they weren't going to contact each other so that they could give their Ms "the attention they deserve". </strong> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">....and a NC letter is the first step.

If she's sincere about working on the marriage, she should have NO problem with a NC letter.

What about counseling? Has she agreed to that?

Regardless, OMW deserves to know.

How would you like to be the spouse in the dark?

WAT

InGreatPain, WAT is right, it is absolutely imperative that the OMW be apprised of this situation so she can protect herself and so that she will know who the OW is. She has to know all the facts in order to protect herself.

It's unlikely that she has the slightest idea about the affair, you only have your W and the OM's word to go on and they are absolutely untrustworthy. And even if she does know, then it won't hurt anything to tell her since she already knows.

Informing her will also increase the odds that the affair will not resume because the OMW can watch her H from that end. So please call her as soon as possible.

WAT...the differing opinion here comes from Starf*sh in the Just Found Out Forum. What may complicate this is that after I posted yesterday, W calls and says that her IC wants to meet me (W and I together) to see whether we are ready for MC. This IC has been against MC for a while now but feels that things may have settled down to where it may be productive (when I say settle down,I mean that a some time has passed since DDay). I have always been FOR MC but most Cs seem to believe that for MC to work, both spouses have to agree to work on M, something my W has not been willing to do up to this point. Anyways, I agreed to meet this IC and will most likely mention NC then. If MC is in our future then NC and a NC letter have to be a part of it,wouldn't you agree?? What if W is not willing?? drop MC altogether (mistake I would think)??

Wow, that is really good news - if your wife is sincere. I hope it isn't the case, but sometimes WSs use this tactic as a smokescreen to argue that the marriage is a lost cause.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">most Cs seem to believe that for MC to work, both spouses have to agree to work on M </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We should hope that ALL counselors believe this, but there are many that are not particularly pro-marriage and serve their clients only to "help" them get to where they want to be - even if this means in a new marriage with their partner in infidelity.

Get ready for this meeting by reviewing Plan A, in particular the no LBs, no demands, no disrespectful judgements, and no angry outbursts part. This is a terrific opportunity for you to demonstrate good Plan A behavior.

Very important ---------> Practice saying "I feel...." or "I believe...." in describing your thoughts about your interactions with your wife. For example, instead of saying "You (WS) don't communicate well," say "I believe I don't always understand what you're trying to communicate to me."

See the difference? Saying "you this" or "you that" is a judgement about her. Bad juju.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If MC is in our future then NC and a NC letter have to be a part of it,wouldn't you agree??</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">ABSOLUTELY!!!

But, go slow. You should not go in there and make a case for NC right off the bat. If MC is effective, NC will come and a NC letter will be a no brainer. Don't force it. Be patient. Feel your way here. Look for an opportunity to raise NC with the counselor. Based on your description of what the IC said about MC, he/she knows the importance of NC, I suspect.

As long as your wife is willing to go to MC, you should scale mountains to participate. But things aren't going to improve overnight.

As for informing the OMW, I default to the NC letter route. If it looks like this may be forthcoming eventually, hold off on contacting OMW yourself. Put the oxygen mask on yourself before helping others.

But eventually, OMW must be told.

Does all this make sense?

WAT

WAT...yes it does make sense and thanks for your time and responses. Got petrified for a moment when you mentioned that some WSs use MC as a way to show that the M is a lost cause. Can't believe W would try to hurt me even by using this as a smokescreen. It'sjust that this is all a pretty big flip-flop so to speak considering last Friday she said that she loved OM and didn't want a date night yet. Not sure if I could take being "set up" again.

Until the NC letter is sent and the OMW is informed, the affair could be continuing. Most WS's only reveal to the BS what they already "know" that the BS "knows". Does this make sense?

She says that they have no contact and that the OM has told his W, how do you know that this is true? Did she come to you and offer to tell you the truth about everything? If not, you are getting answers based on the specific questions that you ask. Your W should not really know the details of the OM's disclosure to his W unless they are still in contact.

Working together, even if contact is infrequent, is very often stringing the affair along. MANY here can attest to this! As long as the OM's W does not know about your W, your W and the OM still have a secret. Secrets cannot exist if your marriage is to have any chance of recovering.

Please help your W write a NC letter and mail it with her. E-mail the OM's W and disclose the relationship between your w and her H. It is much more unlikely that the affair will resume if it is exposed.

Keep us posted, we care, Ladysing

Feeling petrified for a moment shows you are thinking clearly.

Keep both feet on the ground and go into MC with neutral expectations.

Plan A, Plan A, Plan A.

Keep your cool and don't let her rile you.

Practice, "I feel", "I believe."

OK?