I'm a big-time lurker and I'm jumping over from Just Found Out. Here it is in a nutshell .... Discovered WH's affair on 10/11/03 by walking in on him sending an email to OW. I completely fell apart. I contemplated suicide for the first couple months, but I never actually did anything. I just wanted the pain to go away. Both WH and I are in IC (w/ the same psychologist), but WH will not discuss MC.

Through my own detective work, discovered OW is a 40 year old married SAHM w/ 3 young daughters. WH & OW are in a symphonic band together (hobby not career). WH gave me the ILYBINILWY speech and told me he was leaving me. (7 months later he hasn't left yet, but he still insists he is going to leave.) I discovered this site about 4 months ago and began Plan A.

About 2 months ago, WH told me he had another short-term A two years ago, but he ended it because it was purely physical and he needed something more. It has also come out that WH has a sexual addiction. Over the past 5 or 6 years he has bought at least 50 porn videos. He spends a lot of time at topless clubs and adult video stores. He even admitted to getting oral sex from a woman while her husband and several other men watched at one of these adult video stores.

WH also refuses to go to NC w/ OW. He has "codes" on his cell phone and email, and he won't give them to me. He sais he is very confused about everything in his life right now.

I would be remiss if I didn't admit that I played a very heavy role in the sad state of our marriage. I have been very detached especially since my parents died almost 8 years ago. I've carried around a lot of hatred and unfortunately I aimed a great deal of it at my husband. I am very ashamed of my behavior; however, I am making great strides in IC. Even WH has noticed. I've let go of most of my anger and I've apologized to my husband at least 100 times.

I just don't know what to do now. WH refuses to go to NC w/ OW. He sais they're "just friends". I've told him the whole..you can't be friends.. thing, but he's too deep in this to see past it. WH probably hasn't left because he doesn't have any money. Do I really want him to stay just because he can't afford to leave? I'm seriously considering MAKING him leave, money or no money. I want him to re-commit to our marriage and get off the fence. I don't think he will as long as things continue the way they are. What do ya'll think?

Plan A has a time limit....3 months for women. Did you do all the parts of Plan A INCLUDING exposure? Did you talk to this woman's husband, your inlaws, the orchestra leader? If so, I say it's time for Plan B and an end to the fence sitting.

I'll offer a different POV...

You have admitted you need to make some personal changes (Can I ever relate to that) meet more of your husbands needs and be a better wife. Instead of going to Plan B, I'd reccomend you keep yourself focused on those changes.

An apology is a great place to start, but you need to demonstrate that those changes are permanent in order to give your husband the sense of security that while help motivate him to refocus on the marriage.

This can be particularily difficult while they are still in contact with the OP. Believe me, I know all about this.

The thing to keep in mind is that these changes are for you... not just him. They will make you happier, stronger, more balanced and in the end, whatever the outcome, you will be better off. Eight years is a lot of damage pattern to undo. Stay your course, work on you and your Plan A.

Buy Surviving An Affair, by W. Harley. It will give you some detailed instrucions on how to handle this. Most of the info is on this site if you cannot get the book.

Stay strong. Stay true. Most of all, be patient.

dewt

I hate to admit this, but... NO, I haven't exposed the A to the OWH or the band. I know I should've done this 6 months ago. I kept thinking I would expose it after WH left. Then, he just kept on not leaving. I am grappling w/ the fear of exposing it all and giving them that last reason/excuse to run off together. I get the feeling that OW is waiting for WH to leave me, and WH is waiting for OW to leave her H. That may not be true, but it seems that way to me.
WH has told me that OWH is abusive and controlling. Yes, I know these people lie and exagerate, but what if I tell OWH and he hits her causing my H to run to her rescue?

I have to realize that my marriage is not acceptable in it's present state. Exposure is necessary, especially since WH refuses to go to NC. If WH leaves because I expose the A, I suppose I just have to be ready.

ARRRGGGGHHHHH!! I hate this! I also admit that I'm a little scared of telling OWH. What if he gets violent w/ me? Maybe I should take a friend w/ me. The only proof I could show OWH are my WH's cell phone records and one hotel bill.
Can someone give me some advice on what to say, perhaps even a proposed script?

Everyone is hesitant to expose the A. But that is one of the best ways to end it.

I went to see OW's BH. I knocked on the door and asked if he had a minute. He came outside and I let him know what was going on. I had never met him before.

That was in July, and since then we talk several times a week, comparing notes. He has been a huge support.

I was hasitant to do that couple months ago. But I did it after the encouragement from Believer and other friends here. My situation is not better, but I don't see how much worse it can be.

lostnhurt,

Exposure is scary....but let me give you some good reasons for doing it BEFORE moving to Plan B.

*In Plan A, where you are actively working on the marriage...your motivation is much clearer: You are quite obviously interested in SAVING the marriage. Motivation is important for exposure. If you do it in Plan B...it looks like "sour grapes" and vindictiveness "I can't have him....so no one should". People question your motivation.

*Exposure is a bound to withdraw units from the lovebank....many spouses get angry. But in Plan A....you get to SHOW your commitment and mitigate the losses.

*Exposure is a VERY powerful tool....the longer you wait....the more entrenched the affair becomes. So in other words "the sooner the better".

*Until ALL the parts of Plan A are implemented...Plan B is premature....and less likely to be successful.

Please consider taking this scary step....we'll hold your hand okay?

I am grappling w/ the fear of exposing it all and giving them that last reason/excuse to run off together. I get the feeling that OW is waiting for WH to leave me, and WH is waiting for OW to leave her H. That may not be true, but it seems that way to me.
WH has told me that OWH is abusive and controlling. Yes, I know these people lie and exagerate, but what if I tell OWH and he hits her causing my H to run to her rescue?

Sounds like your H has picked himself a weak woman to mess with... "Save me from mean old abusive husband. Let's commit adultery and my life won't suck so much."

Hogwash!

Ask yourself what is the principled thing to do.... expose the affair to the light of day ... or leave them with their secret affair?....?

Instead of looking at the "fear" that your WH might leave you once the A is exposed.... look at this ---> If you keep going the way you're headed, your respect for your H will die a little bit every day.

It's a hard thing to do... expose the affair.

If you do not expose... I think your marriage and your chance for happiness with your H are doomed.

Lack of respect kills marriages. He doesn't respect you right now, and I think you are losing respect for him daily.

Pep

<small>[ May 12, 2004, 04:21 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

I hate Thursday nights!!!! This is when WH's band meets for rehearsals, and of course the OW is there too. Afterwards the band goes to a bar and gets wasted. WH doesn't come home 'til after midnight, sometimes almost 2:00am. It drives me crazy! I never cared before d-day because I trusted him without question. Now I realize what a fool I was. Last night, WH told me that he and OW barely speak at these band get-togethers and that his feelings for OW are changing. (Whatever that means?)

I'm working up my courage to contact OWH. The problem is that OW is a SAHM and guards the phone like a hawk. OWH works a lot and travels frequently. Did I mention that OWH apparently makes really good money? They live in this REALLY large house in an exclusive neighborhood. I sometimes think I should push them together so OW can find out that WH can't keep her in the manner to which she has become accustomed -- not even close. I've driven to their house a few times, but OWH is never there. I do not know where he works.

I'm off to take daughter and her boyfriend to their ballroom dance class tonight. D really wanted to take this class with her dad, but he absolutely refused to quit band even for a little while. D used to be the center of WH's life. Does he realize the damage he's caused and is continuing to cause? It seems the WSs forget about everything except the OP. I think my H will be shocked when he finally realizes all that he has jeopardized.

Please park out in front of the house until OW's H comes home. You need to let him know what is going on. It can only help you.

Okay, ya'll, still haven't been able to contact OWH. It's a 2 hour drive from my house to theirs, and I just can't go everyday or even stay long once I'm there. I work and my daughter is VERY busy with her activities and I don't have much spare time.

When WH got home last night, he had obviously been crying and went straight to bed. I know this is a LB, but I followed him to the bedroom and was persistent that he tell me what was wrong. (I didn't yell, but I didn't let it go either.) He wouldn't tell me much, but it seems that OW has been seeing a Christian-based IC who has been telling her to end the A and re-focus on her marriage. OW told WH that she is going to work on her marriage and told him she was sorry for the damage she caused ours. WH cried all night. I held him when he would let me. A few times he put his arms around me, pulled me down next to him, and held me for an hour or so. This morning he told me he was sorry for all the pain he has caused me; however, he also had to remind me that I had caused him pain for many years by not being emotional enough for him. I told him that I have realized my mistakes and have made drastic changes to my behavior over the last 7 months. He acknowledged that, but he's not optimistic that the changes are permanent. He wants me to change more, but he won't tell me what those changes are. I told him I would like to go to MC where we can discuss these changes and their implementation. I think he's too sad right now to consider anything. He said he might move out this weekend, but he didn't know if he really wanted to.

I'm trying REALLY hard to be patient even though it breaks my heart to see him crying over someone else. My every instinct is to tell him to get the he!! out and don't come back unless you want to be with me. I know that's wrong, but don't these WSs realize what they expect from us is wrong too?

Gotta go. It's another Thursday night (WH & OW have band together). I have to take daughter to her ballroom dance class, the one she wanted her father to take w/ her.

Any advice on what to do now?

Here's your chance, girl. Yes, no one wants to have their spouse grieving over someone else. Yuk! But he is going through withdrawal now. That is what they do. So you need to support him, and not expect him to be sorry just yet.

It will be very hard for you, but will be worth it in the end. Withdrawal does not last that long, and then he will be back to himself.

WH came home about 1:00am last night after band rehearsal. He cried again all last night, but he wouldn't let me hold him or touch him at all. This morning he looked at me and said, "Don't feel sorry for me. It's not right. Afterall, I'm in love with someone else." I told him I didn't feel sorry for him, but I that I did love him. I finally convinced him to go to the doctor today and get on ADs. (In fact, he just called me to say he's on his way there now.) Unfortunately, he is still talking to OW. He still wants to be her friend. He'll never get over her as long as he keeps up contact. He also told me that he still wants to move out...maybe even this weekend or tonight. What is he thinking? He has called me at least 5 times this morning to chat and ask questions. I know deep down he doesn't really want to leave. I just don't understand. Maybe he needs to be away from me for a while before he'll realize that he wants to be with me? Maybe the ADs will help.

Another thing that doesn't make any sense is that here he is in an A with a married woman, he has all of a sudden returned to church (both he and OW are Catholic), he wants to leave his family, he wants OW to leave her family, and yet he tells me that he wants to become a better man and get closer to God. Wow, that doesn't make sense to me. Any insight to this?

^^^BUMP

He is still in the fog. But the anti-D's will help, so hang in there. I would tell him that you love him and hate to see him hurting so bad. If he says that you should not feel sorry for him, just tell him you are his wife, and want him to be happy.

See if you can hang in there for a couple weeks. If he decides to move, let him go. Tell him that you can't force him to stay but you wish he would.

Well, everyone, OWH found out. Apparently, OW had a file w/ letters, emails, journals for her IC, etc. Somehow, OWH found them. OW immediately called WH to "warn" him, but told him not to intervene. WH broke land speed records driving to her side of town. He found her laying in the back seat of her car with her rosary in her hand parked in her church parking lot. (Wow, it just doesn't get much more dramatic than that, does it?) OW told WH to go home - she would deal with her situation. WH cried all weekend. OW text messaged WH Sunday afternoon and said she was okay. The ADs helped him a little Sunday night, but they take a couple weeks to reach full effectiveness. WH is still intent on moving out. He just keeps repeating that he loves her and she loves him. Heck, maybe it would be better if he moved out. I don't really want him to, but he is starting to alienate our daughter. Up until 6 months ago, WH and daughter were always doing things together. They were inseparable. Now, he acts like he doesn't even care about her anymore. She asked him to go swimming w/ her Sunday afternoon and he told her he just wanted to be alone. I can't just allow him to continue to hurt her. I can take deep breaths when he says hurtful things to me, but Mama Bear won't tolerate him hurting my baby girl. Perhaps a little distance and alone time will help him see what he's done to himself, to me, and to our daughter.

^^^

I'd keep him at home if possible.
You can't make him stay, but I certainly would not encourage him to leave.

You can Plan A much better when he's at home.

WH woke me up this morning and informed me that he found a cheap apt and wants to move out this weekend. He said he just needs to be alone. I really didn't say much. Half of me wants to break down and cry, and the other half wants to say, "Good, go NOW, today, and don't let the door hit ya!" I did neither. I just sorta stared at him. Then he followed by saying that he was afraid to sign a lease somewhere, because he might want to come back in 2 or 3 months. Then he grabbed me and hugged me for a long time, and left for work. Even though I really don't want him to move out, maybe it will give him time to miss his family. It's kinda strange, but I feel like him moving out is almost more of a betrayal than his affair. What should I do after he moves out? Do I continue Plan A? I'm not sure that's a good idea. Afterall, that'll just allow him to live as he pleases while still getting ENs met by me too. Do I switch to Plan B so he'll realize what he's losing? I was thinking about doing a couple weeks of Plan A and then switching to Plan B. I want him to really see and feel the difference between getting ENs met by me, and being really alone. This is not intended as a vengence thing. Quite the contrary. I just don't think that switching to Plan B at the same time he moves out will be as noticeable and effective. What do ya'll think? I need some help and encouragement here. I hate to be needy, but this moving out thing is really pushing me back. I do NOT want to crumble all over again. I have to maintain my confidence and strength.

^^^