Well, it has been an interesting week in Plan B. All week WH keeps contacting me saying that he wants to end relationship with OW and return home. We discussed NC, closing her cell phone share account, closing his private bank account, the need for honesty and POJA. He agreed to it all. WH said he knew that things were not working between them and he was finding her very annoying. He definately wanted to come home and while being her friend still was desired, he understood why NC was necessary and he was for it.

On Monday night we made final arrangements for him to leave her apartment while she was at work. On Tuesday morning, I drove 45 minutes to her place and picked him up. I now know where she lives. He left her a letter stating it was over and even printed a copy for me.

The letter wasn't written as strongly as I would have liked, but it did say NC and he was ending it. I shared my concerns about the letter and he said he'd send another one more strongly written if necessary.

He wanted to go out to lunch to "celebrate" which I thought was nice. WH said I could ask any questions I wanted and he was going to be honest about it all. I asked a few things and we talked about who knew and who didn't, etc. I asked if he was sad. He said that he wasn't sad, it was just necessary and that was that. We both agreed we were excited and scared. H even asked if MC was available, he liked the idea of Retroville (sp?).

The day was good. H was telling me how he found her annoying and didn't like what and who she talked about. He loved me and he realized that I was not the cause of his problems. The fog was gone and he was seeing so clearly. She left messages on our home phone and H's cell phone. He ignored them.

I asked him this morning, how he was and he said he was focusing on not contacting her and said he'd call me if he felt the urge. I'm nervous though, he's home all day alone so I hope he can keep up the NC. If he does contact her, then do I will go to plan B again and ask him to move out?

I hope and pray this is for real. Any thoughts?

firefly

<small>[ June 11, 2004, 03:00 PM: Message edited by: firefly73 ]</small>

What did he write in the letter to her if it was wishywashy he needs to write a stronger one that's just simple like the one in SAA. I guess all you can do is see if he is taking the steps that you need to have him build the trust back up again. If he is then work with him and support him but like you said if he goes back Plan B. You might want to print off the basic concepts here and see if it is something that he would be interested in, ask him to read it just to see what he thinks of those concepts. Remember no LB'ing. One other suggestion if he's willing don't start him out with SAA for book reading start with His Need's/Her Need's this was suggested by Jennifer to me. See if he agree's with what the book has to offer and also direct him to this sight if he's willing to help him get support.

I wish you luck on your road to recovery.

<small>[ May 12, 2004, 08:57 AM: Message edited by: The Tinman ]</small>

i pray that it's real as well, unfortunately don't feel equipped to offer you other thoughts but strength and prayers to you.

firefly, I don't want to dampen your spirits, but I want to caution you that this is a very dangerous period. He is just starting withdrawal so this may be a rocky road. I fear that he has come back because it was too hard to LIVE with the OW.

However, this is the phase when many WS's go back and forth because they are not quite done with affair. So, please brace yourself, keep your eyes peeled and don't get too comfortable.

I agree ML. I don't want to get my hopes up too high. I also was a bit suprised that one week with OW and he was done with her. However, when I asked him to leave if he wouldn't end the affair, he wasn't too keen on having to go live with her.

I talked with him this morning and asked if he had contacted her. He said no that he would not do that. I said thank you for not contacting her and he responded: he wasn't doing this for me, he was doing this for us.

Thank you for everyone's suggestions.

I am praying. Now I guess I just wait and see.

firefly

FINALLY! It's about time. See if he will post here. We have lots of WS's trying to stay in NC.

He might slip, but I would get real busy with a recovery plan.

Well, WH's NC with OW lasted a whole 36 hours. She showed up at his work place last night because she wanted to confront WH about up and leaving without saying a word.

He called me and said she was there and he was just going to say to her that it was over and that he was at home with me working on our marriage and desired no contact.

Four hours later he returns home and is now having second thoughts. He says he isn't sure if he really wants to be with me now. WH says he will give me a definate answer this evening as he wants the day to think about it.

I am furious and hurt. I know that I was anxious to have him come home even if it was only after a week in Plan B. Yet, he was saying all the right stuff and was doing his best to be honest and reassuring. I saw my "real" husband, yet it only lasted 36 hours. She pulled him back into the fog.

I told WH that he has to decide and he knows where I stand on A and OW. Me or her -- not both. I am sick to my stomach waiting.

any thoughts?
firefly

My prayers are with you. I've not even gotten as close as you have in saving the marriage. WH moved out 3 weeks ago and he is just in a wishy-washy state (the fog) can't say which way he wants to go.

Take heart he came back. I think that is a very good sign. I understand the withdrawal period is very hard on WS's.
I would think MC would assist ya'll.

I honestly don't think we'll make it unless we get the MCing.

Even if he leaves, and I know this would be extremely hard on you. I still believe you have a chance.
Keep us posted.

Originally posted by firefly73:
Me or her -- not both.

It may help to reframe this..

Instead of "me or her" ... as if he is choosing between women... This cannot be done if he has feeling for both of you. And he'll fence-sit longer if you approach him with these words.

He is actually choosing a "self" ...

Refreme in such a way that focuses on HIS choosing a self...

"Faithful married man ... or adulterous man" ... THAT is actually what he is choosing... his character, a way of life.... Make sure you frame it this way when speaking to him.

Pep

Pep:

I like your feedback on reframing.

firefly

firefly -

They all go through the same thing. I think it might be time to go back into Plan B.

This is a very difficult time <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I went threw this stage, One minute Ill go back with W, the next maybe it will get better with OW, no in just fooling myself, etc. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> A lot of pain set in, <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> because my A was going bad, and returning had no gauranties things would get better. My advise is to be sapportive, state you case and if you truly want to save your M, then give all good things and if he truly has any love for you he will correspond. He came home and tried, this is a good thing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Know you need to be patient, and express your love. I know this is dificult under these cercumstances, but I can tell you that this tiped the scale for me in the HOS. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Stand firm, but show love at the same time.

Hope it helps, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

FCalunga

HOS(37)
WS(38)
M17
DD 12/7/03
NC 3/26/04
3 kids
In Recovery

Thanks to everyone for their thoughts, especially from FC.

On Thursday evening he told me that he wanted to go live with OW. I cried. I didn't want to, but I had high hopes and I couldn't believe how his attitude for recovery had changed so quickly. He took a few things and left to be with her.

I went to my sister's wedding this weekend and had a great time. I told extended family that H was visiting his sick father. I told my parents the truth about the A for the first time. They were supportive of course. My sister and fiance already knew too.

Got home on Saturday evening and H had only taken a bag with some clothes in it. Should I make him take everything?

Back in Plan B.
Ran across this quote over the weekend: "Going asleep alone is lonely. But going to sleep with someone who tears your heart out is worse."

firefly

Hello Firefly, Im not surprised by this at all, If you wish I will continue to give you insight on this as Im a little ahead of this stadge as of now. I will confes im still a bit in the Fog, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> but it gives me great satisfaction and actually serves me as therapy in my recovery process to help others.

Now to the nedy gredy, on my DD I had it all planed out I was actually packed and ready for whatever out come. I took all belongings that day. Responding to your question regarding if you should switch to plan B again. My answer is "YES" dont let your guard down remember you need for him to preseve you as strong and in control even if its tearing you to pieces inside, dont break down yet until you persive him as the H you once thought you knew. Give him an ultimatum, 3 days, etc. Either he comits to getting your M back on track or he gets out(take all necessary belongings). He mus'nt be allowed to have the cake and eat it to. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I to felt this way when I was in the MUD, I wanted what the OW was giving me the best "S" ive ever had in my life but I also wanted the loving and caring of my W.

Can't have it all....Dont let him.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />
I suggest you tell him you are commited to working on the M, and that you still love him and if he ever needs someone to talk, or to eat out whatever after all you are his wife, your not having the a right?. Tell him you will be their to listen to him but nothing else ....nothing until he decides what his going to do with the OW.. he must maitain NC....Thats not easy I hav'nt actually been as true to myself, but I hav'nt seen the OW in 2 months I consider this a milestone.

If you wish you can write to me at fc83069@yahoo.com and I can give you more insight as to what goes threw the OS when his cought up in all the FOG...FOG..FOG...

Dont give in and dont give up, you will survive this and be a better person after its all over.

Keep in touch,

FCalunga <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

OS(37)
WS(38)
M17
DD 12/7/03
3 Kids (20,14,10)
In Recovery and still in the FOG...

Almost forgot to address the part about sleeping alone. Ive done it been their and <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> yes the walls are cold and the room seems smaller at times, dont dispare you need to keep busy doing other things, distract ....distract...distract and do things you always wanted to do. Take time for yourself, if friends, family are closeby have them over and just get together, enjoy all you can movies, excercise, payama party, what ever just use energy on something constructive. If its getting to you about sleeping alone than maybe its time to find somewere else to sleep( I dont now all the family circumstances kids, etc.) I atke Camomile Tea "Sleepy Time" and sometimes even melatonie their natural sleep aids that helped me. I know it can be hard but it will help you a great deal in the long run.

This stage is delicate and requieres a lot of emotional strengh, you should charge up for the next stage...

Best Wishes for a quick recovery of your M.

Regards,

FCalunga

I have been having a hard time with all of this lately. At times I feel like the A will never end and even if it did would my H want to return to our M.

I wrote a list of all the reasons why I thought H would return to M. Then I wrote a list of the reasons why I think he won't. There were more reasons why he would return, but the reason why not were just as powerful. I think that if he doesn't return, it will probably be because it is easier to stay with her than to break up with her. And I will end up divorcing him because I won't wait long enough. Am I being stupid?

It has been an ironic weak, because just as I am battling with all these pessimistic thoughts for reconcilliation, I get all these messages about PATIENCE... a quote from a friend, the theme of my Weight Watcher's meeting, the sermon at church. So I am trying to be PATIENT and listen to what God is telling me.

I haven't been good at NC with H either. I spoke with him on Wednesday while he was at work. Then, he called yesterday AM and we talked for a few minutes. And finally today we talked on the phone and then he asked me to meet him at the park. We only saw each other for a half hour and talked about him trying to get a job in real estate and where he'd like to live. I reassured him that I would move with him and I was open to changing jobs. Perhaps it undermined my Plan B efforts, but it seemed reassuring to him. He said he wished he had a place of his own rather than living with OW.

Any thoughts?

firefly

I suggest you re-start Plan B from the beginning.

Modify your original Plan B letter to recognize the recent events, the false start, and restate your conditions. Send it again, then go dark.

This is your only choice. Drop back to fundamentals.

Withdraw for your sake and because it has an affect before.

WAT

<small>[ May 23, 2004, 07:50 PM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

Hi Firefly, its been a while since our last post. Its definatly past due. Know were are you, lets say your very confused you dont know if your Plan A or Plan B, to me it seems that your not taking the right steps in managing this A.

The last time I posted I mentioned that it was important to be firm and saportive at the same time. You shold always look as if your in control, play the tough cookie even if your a mess inside. Most important dont let him have the cake and eat it to. Make him acountable for his actions, and let him suffer the consiquences an A brings into your M. Only this will snap him out of it, because if he gets what he wants from the OW(what his upset with you about) and if you give him what the OW is most likly not forfilling his EN(what your M ment to you) than he is getting the better from the both of you. This will not work, he must be presured at the right time to make a dicishion its the "OW" or its "W". You must reach deep into your soul and be strong dont let him get the better half of you. He must earn his way back if you make it to easy for you H. He will play games and relapse. He needs to relly think about all the pain this has caused, and as far as advise well its nice to meet at the park and talk, but it should be about you M and no other topic (no LB'S). Just understanding ,Love, nice things etc. talk about the good times, and all the pain its caused, and that you will be their idf he needs to "talk".

Take all this in stride and one day at a time.

FCalunga

WS(37)
BS(38)
M17
3 kids
DD 12/7/03
In the Recovery Room and doing well.

At times I feel like the A will never end
Part of Marriage Builders philosophy is say what you mean and mean what you say.
You send a Plan B letter and say, “I will have no contact until you end the affair.”
Then you have (extended) contact prior to the affair ending. This simply shows the ws that you cannot/will not do what you say.
Why should/would he believe you will make positive, lasting changes in the relationship?

Perhaps it undermined my Plan B efforts
Yes, it did.

but it seemed reassuring to him.
Which is why a PROPERLY written Plan B letter is essential.
They MUST know your intentions are to reconcile and make the marriage better than it ever was.
They MUST know that you are willing to do just about anything to make it all possible.
And they must know that when the affair is over, you are willing to talk again and discuss the future in a fair & non-love busting way with them.

He said he wished he had a place of his own rather than living with OW.
Course. It usually hits the fan when they get together and see each other as they really are.

Redo the Plan B letter and post it here before you give it to your h.

Did you ever post your original (or any) Plan B letter here for critique?