Betrayed spouses and anyone else with input---

I am so interested in hearing about the first red flags or gut feelings you had that something was "not right", even long before discovering the actual affair.

Did you have intuition that something was "wrong" and either ignore that feeling or get dismissed by WS when you mentioned it or were you completely blindsided by the A on d-day?

I'm also especially curious about A's starting in the work place with co-workers (since it seems to be such an epidemic now)...did you and your spouse have agreed-upon boundaries from the beginning of your marriage concerning work-place conduct and WS ignored these boundaries? (no personal discussions/e-mails/phone calls, no lunches with people of opposite sex, no riding together, etc. etc.) OR were boundaries and limits at work never even discussed prior to the A???

My first H had an A with a co-worker and when I look back on it I am absolutely amazed at what I thought was acceptable/appropriate behavior (concerning ex-H interaction with female co-workers). I never felt good about a lot of the contact, but I thought it was my own problem based on MY insecurity. Years later, I continue to be amazed at the lack of boundaries people have in the work place and, yes, the sheer number of people walking blindly into affairs.

One final question....I strongly believe in intuition but I'm wondering if once a person has been betrayed if their intuition is then a little "off" or hyper-sensitive from then on out????

I appreciate any insights anyone has on these issues....

Had those feelings something was wrong, was in my own state of denile believing that my W would never do this to me. I was sadly wrong and I wish I would have followed my feelings that there was something wrong and found this sight sooner but I can't live in the past. Hope this helps. Yes it is a coworker of her's.

<small>[ May 12, 2004, 12:31 PM: Message edited by: The Tinman ]</small>

We never had boundaries because I had so much trust in my WH and that is where it happened at work. There are flags now that I know, but I never saw them until it was too late. Because I had so much trust I never thought he really wasn't working overtime. I found a white hair once and asked who is belonged to and he said he didnt know. He treated me god awful for 6 months before DDay and now I know why. We weren't children so I didnt think it was necessary to talk about who we played with, but I guess I was wrong huh?

HINY

Having been with WS since 20...married for 30 years...I trusted and loved WS unconditionally...I did suspect something was wrong when things started going downhill in his life...he was let go from his business ..just suspected a mid life crisis and wanted to be there for him...then when the anger and blame towards me surfaced for every little thing I knew there had to be something wrong...I would ask him constantly if there was someone else and his answer was I was paranoid etc...then DD I found a receipt in our vehicle and all hell broke loose..I feel WS is going through a mid life crisis as he was faithful to me previous to 2000...he went about a complete personality change and after having checked some links to mid life crisis ...I can check off every symptom as WS's present personality

<small>[ May 12, 2004, 12:46 PM: Message edited by: New Outlook ]</small>

Utter and complete trust, never would happen with her. This in a job (Air ambulance nurse) where she can spend 24 hours at work (there are sleeping facilities). I could not fathom the situation I’m in occurring.

It didn’t start there though; it began on a work conference (read party) in Reno. I knew something was up the day she got back. She was distant and different. I snooped in the E-mails….I found some that were saved….not racy…just not too professional. Enter PI, hotel, confrontation etc. and now here I am.

I think more importantly I now see the warning signs of an unhappy marriage partner prior. The disengagement, the reduction in the “I love you” remarks, and other signs of loneliness were present. I take a good share of the responsibility for that and have told her that numerous times. It seems it’s too little too late.

I say more importantly because by the time you see the signs of infidelity, the marriage may be over the precipice. I think the boundaries are very important, because if you believe Shirley Glass in Not Just Friends even a good marriage is at risk given the appropriate circumstances. If one doesn’t question the issue of integrity, if one believes so strongly in their own values, if one is so arrogant regarding the relationship, boundaries don’t seem unnecessary.

As the saying goes, “Once the ship is sunk, everyone knows how it could have been saved”.

Where the heck did I put that life jacket?

<small>[ May 12, 2004, 12:50 PM: Message edited by: Binder ]</small>

I knew there were problems. My WH started detaching from me and the family. He refused to do things with me.

I told him I was worried, and he told me that things would get better, numerous times. All along he was having an A.

When I knew for sure 4 months later, he told me I was crazy, imagining things, blah, blah, blah.

Interesting question.

I thought FWH and I had established boundaries. But looking back, we never had an explicit discussion. I just assumed he would keep female co-workers at bay.

Bad assumption.

I was blindsided by D-Day #1 when he confessed his first two affairs. One was with a co-worker, one was with a fellow softball player from his co-ed league. I had suspicions about one of these women -- that FHW was infatuated with her. Just something about the way he talked about her. But because I never in a million years that he would actually have an affair, I didn't worry about it too much.

(In fact, I remember that D-Day, when he told me he needed to tell me something -- and it had to do with other women. I jokingly said, "What, have you kissed someone else?" completely expecting him to laugh at me and call me crazy. Imagine my open-mouthed, slack-jawed shock when he said, "Yes -- and more." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> )

Fast-foward three years to last summer. I thought our marriage was 100% better, that we'd made the changes necessary to guard against future affairs. Turns out -- I had, he hadn't.

Because I'd been burned in the past, there were a few things that set my antennae to quivering. OW was giving him gifts (which he admitted when confronted about the new watch, the new shirt, etc.) I told him I thought it was strange that a female employee was giving him such personal gifts. He just shrugged it off. "Yeah, I know. It's making me uncomfortable." She sent our DD a birthday gift. Most damning -- I caught him ending a phone conversation with her one night. When he saw I was in the doorway, he snapped, "I've got to go!" and hung up. I talked to him about my fears. He reassured me that nothing was going on. (Which was the technical truth, in his mind, because he had broken off the affair weeks before that phone call.)

In hindsight, I was trusting too much. (So obviously, my intuition wasn't too sensitive, even after D-Day #1. I've just had a very blessed life.) And FWH had no clue about proper boundaries with women.

The change? I'll never trust 100% again, for better or worse. And FWH is almost scared of women at this point. He's finally learned the lesson of boundaries (amongst other things).

BH03

Not a workplace A, but I can say with all sincerity that I knew what was coming and was helpless to stop it. Today the only reason I know that it's still an A (EA) is because of the constant criticism. That is the tell tale sign in my opinion. That justification. Tearing you down makes it all so right in their fog.

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Were you completely surprised by who the OP was or did you already have a pretty good idea who it could be? (either from a gut feeling when first meeting OP, WS talking about this person a little too much, prior inappropriate contact, etc.)

Interesting how common the detached behavior and anger seems to be in the WS....fits right in there with that dang "script" they all seem to predictably follow. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Yes I was shocked who the OP is, we met at a few of my W work functions and I thought that the OM and I had a good aquantince relationship. We talked at functions and such met his wife who he is now DV from as of last couple of months. What a loser now that I see his true colors too bad my W can't see them through the fog. Get's a DV and might be causing ours.

For me totally..WS was a successful businessman ..we have all the bells and whistles..home here..home in Florida..sporty cars...folks tell me I am a beautiful woman...wonderful son, beautiful granddaughters, life was good... then bamm..OW divorced 5 years ago from an abusive husband...three children all with problems from drugs to you name it..she has broken up two marriages previous to A with WS...she lives in a low rental housing dump...he met her in a bar in the middle of the afternoon crying in her beer as she just put her middle child in a group home..recently in order to get WS back gave two youngest children to abusive methadone ex husband...now that's a mother you can respect <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> WS told me himself OW's ex husband was a no good bum so there ya go...if this isn't a prime example of a typical mid life crisis ..I'll eat my hat <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

<small>[ May 12, 2004, 01:48 PM: Message edited by: New Outlook ]</small>

The strange thing in my situation is when my husband would go visit his mom in North Carolina I would have these strange dreams. Every single time I would dream about him with another woman and when he called me I would tell him and he would act so weird. Even asked me one time what color hair the girl had in my dream. Turns out when he went to visit his mom he also took a trip to South Carolina to visit her 2 or 3 times.

I tried to call him one weekend and his mom kept saying he was in bed. I thought that was kind of strange. I also looked on my credit card bill and on my bank statement and saw stuff coming out of SC. I asked him about it and he said he took a buddy to see a lady friend there.

I just knew in my mind that something wasn't right and kept asking him to please tell me the truth.. I think I finally wore him down and he just told me to get me off his back.. That was on Christmas Night.

I had no idea H's EA was going on during the time we were dating, living together and then married.

I suspected A when the PA started...H was drinking more, rude to me, short-tempered, yelled at my kids alot along with the usual symptoms of trying to lose weight, bought new underwear...all the usual stuff.

Can't believe I ignored the red flags and blew it off. I didn't start checking anything until about two weeks before d-day when it just hit me really hard that an A might be going on.

sss

I really had no idea at first who the OW was until I heard her voice on voice mail. I didn't know her name, just knew of her.

Meant to add...

One of the reasons it was so easy for me to blow off the red flags (besides trusting/believing H) is because H has been accountable for his time since the beginning of our M. Some trust issues came up early in our R regarding H's XW (talking to her again but not telling me, Internet EA crap). Because of those ordeals, H has been accountable for his time and whereabouts early on. Always kept in touch with me several times during the day, business trips, etc.

Just one problem...if someone wants to have an A, they will find a way to get away with it. My accountable H almost always called me either right before and/or right after contact with OW.

In fact, during his last business trip, he called me five minutes before OW got to his hotel room and 10 minutes after OW left.

Get this...H called me on his cell phone - his hotel phone rang while we were talking (he didn't answer)...it was OW alerting him to the fact that she was almost there. H told me at the time that it was probably [male travel partner] calling about when they were going to breakfast.

When I think about all this stuff, I feel like such an idiot!

sss

I was totally shocked at A and who OM was. WW is a respected business woman and this guy is a 35 YO janitor with 2 felony convictions on his record and $30 to his name.

Met my W while at the death bed of a mutual friend and used W's sorry as an in with her after friend's death. Nice guy huh?

We shouldn't feel bad that we didn't catch the signs or alter the space time continuum.Like someone mentioned,if our WS was going to get involved with an OP then we cannot stop them despite all the hullabaloo about us each being 50% responsible for the state of our marriage pre-A, yada yada yada.

In my case,looking back I can see signs and I did see them at the time but never thought they would lead to such catastrophe.My WH also got involved with a single homewrecker at the workplace whom I did not know and for years prior I felt he detached/disengaged(as someone else said)from our marriage and our family.He seemed bored and he was never one to get excited about much anyway.Couple that with the brewing of behavior that can lead to an A at his work(many people were in an A already) his "flirtiness" which I called him on very early in our relationship and well,there's the recipe.

We have had many discussions about WH flirtation and so many women used to get the wrong impression from him although he hardly denied it.He thinks he was being gallant or courteous when he did things in front of me with other women like give them hugs even though it was someone I didn't like or when he would constantly pick up those calenders with female models and ignore me say,at the bookstore,crap like that.Insensitive actions.

He also had "feelings" for another co-worker many years ago(who subsequently died of Breast CA) but it never went this far and we had a big blow out about that but little things are adding up to this major disaster I am in now.But I never knew just what WH felt.He never let on that he was that unhappy,only until he was knee deep in A.I have proof that he wasn't indicating to me that he was unhappy.Except for the detachment,which I attributed to work, I was clueless that I would be dealing with Infidelity now.

Regarding my intuition though: it has been right on the money the whole time since the A started.I feel hyper attuned to everything.UGH.I just want to sleep well again....someday.

O

I bumped a old topic with a great link by Whipit regarding classic red flags. Very interesting stuff.

:::::::::despite all the hullabaloo about us each being 50% responsible for the state of our marriage pre-A, yada yada yada.

Octobergirl, I'm with you on this 100%.

What really freaked me on reading the earlier replies was Sadmarylandlady's dreams. I had a really spookie dream about what my H was about to do. But we had been really, really close and he's always been devoted to me, so I disregarded the dream, after I told him about it. It was practically a video in advance of the event. I have never had a dream or even thought about my H being unfaithful to me - and the dream was very specific with the details. I was 3000 miles away from him at the time. I had not been with him for many weeks because of terminally ill mother, so I could not have known anything about what was happening. We only talked on the phone.

I had sent an email at the same time, saying we appeared to be on different wave lengths. I also told my kids that I needed to bond with their dad as I could tell we were growing apart. I sensed a distance between us - that was unusual for us. A bit further on, he was bad tempered with me which was very unusual for him. And one time he sent an email, which in hindsight was his statement of justification for proceeding with the unthinkable. I still didn't get it though. I wrote back and said to him "whoah, where did that come from"?

As with all the other BS's unfaithfulness was not in my frame of reference. We'd been best mates for 35 years - and he's been a wonderful H for 30 yrs. Why would I arrive at such a conclusion, from a few isolated concerns?

Like everyone else here though, I now read A into any moment of disconnectedness. Even if he's dying under a pile of work crap, if he isn't kissing me and telling me how incredible I am, he's having an A! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

New Outlook. Wanna email me? We are same age - I nearly fell on the floor laughing at your H's drop in brain activity re choice of OW. I have dismissed a midlife crisis in the case of my H. Even though he also suffered similar abandonment of functioning braincells. OW for us was not so much woman as a OG. Other girl. Which makes more sense than what your H did. Except, H got taken for a ride, and not the ride he was anticipating! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Oh, there were a lot of red flags, but FWH was also very good at putting them away. I am very very afraid to trust him now because of this. All his As were with OWs from work.

1. 1998. He started working really late. Everyday of the week. Sometimes till 3am. He assures me he loves me and will never leave me because he saw how hurt his mother was when his dad left her. I trusted him completely when he said this.

2. We stopped having sex, I fought with him for not having sex with me but he continues to spend a lot of time at work and went away almost every weekend of the month. It was hard to believe that any job/client would require its staff to go away/work on weekends. Of course, he was taking OWs away during this time. He tells me he'll never have As... his bosses are very family oriented people and he would never jeopardize his position by having an A. He wants to get to the top of the corporate ladder, he has just one more rung to go. See how clever he is? This man is able to spin me 180 degrees.

4. By 2001, he our M was almost non-existent. We didn't do anything together. I went on holidays by myself. He rarely took leave from work, if he did, it would be on a weekday when I am at work. He 'worked' every weekend of the year and we were really distant. He would flat out refuse to have sex with me. He was uninterested in participating in my family's functions. But expected me to be at all his family's functions. I spoke to my mom and asked if I should hire a PI, just to make sure no As going on, but she was horrified and said no. The second A was already in full bloom at this time.

I often wonder what would've happen if I have found out about the As when it was happening. I wonder who he'd choose, or he would choose to be alone. I wonder if he wants this M back only because there is no available OW for him. I know I am a source of security for him.

I cannot fathom how this man can look me in the eye when he comes home from being with OW and sees that I have ironed all his shirts for the week. He knows how much I hate ironing. How can this man be with OW when he knows I am alone at home waiting for him? How can he continue to receive gifts and love from me while being with OW? He just took and took and gave very little in return.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">New Outlook. Wanna email me? We are same age - I nearly fell on the floor laughing at your H's drop in brain activity re choice of OW. I have dismissed a midlife crisis in the case of my H. Even though he also suffered similar abandonment of functioning braincells. OW for us was not so much woman as a OG. Other girl. Which makes more sense than what your H did. Except, H got taken for a ride, and not the ride he was anticipating!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Love to email you...how do I find it?