SHATTERED,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Others on this forum have speculated that W may have convinced herself that she<BR> can get OM to "love" her so much that he will leave his wife. With 4 kids ranging in age<BR> from 5 to 18, I doubt he will leave his wife. What do you think?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Since her told he up front that he doesn't want to leave his wife, and he probably does stand to lose a lot of money from it, you are probably right. I'm not sure the kids have anything to do with it - we have 6 kids 3-19 and my H left us for the OW. But then again he didn't have any money to lose.<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Nellie1 (edited September 17, 1999).]

rjr#2/heartache/Nellie1 - <P>Thank you so much for your kind and thoughtful replies. You have no idea how much it means to me to log on and see that people care enough to respond to my individual cry for help. the support here is simply amazing.<P>rjr#2 - interplanetary Janet. You didn't by chance go to Michigan State University did you?<P>Interesting angle on the 'mysterious foreigner". My SIL said that someone she works with (who has no knowledge of the situation) thought this mysterious foreigner was arrogant, elitist and, well, essentially an all around pr1ck. He tried to impress people by flashing money.<P>I think W may be showered with gifts and other material things. I never pegged her for a greedy gold-digger type. Well, I think you may have something with the insecure thought. My W (as most of us) is fairly insecure. It comes from I think growing up in a fairly dysfunctional household (single parent for all intents and purposes).<P>[quote]Just took a matter of time until I could grab onto reality and that's when it ended.[unquote]<P>What exactly do you now attribute your grabbing onto reality. I mean, was it do you think, the biochemical high in your brain wearing off (as every book on infidelity say MUST happen) or was it guilt on your part or was it some lovebuster your OM did? What was the timeframe of this realization? What event triggered the beginning of the end for your affair? I continue my vigilant and (im)patient wait for this to end. So far, nothing...<P>heartache - My self esteem, as most people's here, has suffered a tremendous blow. When I look in the mirror, I can actually see the effects of the stress on my face. I've been blessed with a youthful countenance...most people believe I'm 10 years younger than I am (I turn 40 on Monday). I lament that whenever this debacle ends, I may actually look OLDER than I really am.<P>I beginning to examine my life and the lives of those around me. Last Monday, I volunteered to help prepare and serve a meal to the unfortunate in my community in a soup kitchen. For the 3 hours I was there, I forgot my "problem" and was able to share my heart with people with real problems. It was very sobering for me, although I hurt, I have a roof over my head, three warm meals each day, and a good job. I felt so good afterward, that I intend to continue volunteering in this capacity. You are very kind to say the things you do. I truly want to catch my W when she falls, figuratively and literally hold her in my arms as she struggles with withdrawal and whisper over and over in her ear how much I love her. This is my dream.<P>Nellie1 - Well, I've got to figure that OM stand to lose too much if he divorces his wife. We all know that he is using my wife for sex.<P>I'm sorry that you H left you. It must have been especially difficult with 6 children. Has your H returned yet?

Shattered-I can realte to the aging process. I have grown grey over all this-not that I wasn't already sprouting a few but boy do they show now. I am so down tonight I think I need to go follow that advice I gave you-but instead I think I will go crash. I am so lucky to have H want to be with me and work this out ( well ok he's the lucky one) but for some reason I can't get it out of my head-not for a day and hardly for a moment :-(( I hate these blue moods I have now-and I hate the reason I have them. I wish I could go kick the OW's a** right now. sorry-I am not helping your situation any-I will head for the sheets. Take care-and thanks for helping the unfortunate- I bet you made a few peoples day <P>*heartache*

Shattered,<BR>No, my H has not returned. He filed about six weeks after he left, immediately after discovery, over 5 months ago.<BR>

Shattered,<P>Your wife doesn't know how lucky she is to have you. All of us W. yearn for H. who love us so much that they are willing to bare the pain of being crucified for us. <BR> When your wife comes to her senses and (if)you are there with that love shining out that you so clearly feel right now, it will be the very thing that heals her. She will be forever grateful (I speak from experience). Doesn't Christ say that he who is forgiven the most is the one who loves me the most? When my h. pursued and forgave me it was like the love and mercy of God shining out of him and into me.<P>If I had your wife's e-mail address I would send her the following words of yours-they clearly show what a good man you are and how foolish and blind she is being to let a man with this kind of love get away. My prayers are for your marriage. <P>>>>>>>Monday, I volunteered to help prepare and serve a meal to the unfortunate in my community in a soup kitchen. For the 3 hours I was there, I forgot my "problem" and was able to share my heart with people <BR>with real problems. It was very sobering for me, although I hurt, I have a roof over my head, three warm meals each day, and a good job. I felt so good afterward, that I intend to continue volunteering in this <BR>capacity. You are very kind to say the things you do. I truly want to catch my W when she falls, figuratively and literally hold her in my arms as she struggles with withdrawal and whisper over and over in her ear how much I love her. This is my dream<<<<<<P>You don't even mention hearing her say she loves you... your dream is to love your wife with an all encompassing, saving and redeeming love. That's so beautiful!

heartache/Nellie1/hurtingwife - <P>Thanks for your replies. I just returned home from church (I always feel so good immediately afterward...I think church for me has become a kind of "booster shot" for my spirituality!!) I read each of your posts and would like to comment.<P>heartache - I'm sorry I didn't get a chance to reply to you last night...I crashed right after my last post and didn't see yours until this morning. You know heartache, even though you were/are feeling blue, keep in mind that your H is there (was he the betrayer or you?) Although you are probably going through some rough times in the rebuilding process, the fact that you BOTH want to rebuild is a major head start. I don't know how spiritual you are, but if so, lean on the Lord. This is something I only recent learned to do. What a fool I have been to not understand how much God wants us all to trust and love Him. I will NEVER stray from my love for God ever again!!! I hope you were able to rest comfortably last night and are in a better frame of mind today.<P>Nellie1 - You mentioned your H left 5 months ago and filed 6 weeks ago. Is there any possibility that you H is seeing my W? I say that because the timeframe for both events are eerily close. My W left me June 21 and filed the last week in August. Do not give up hope!! You want your marriage otherwise you wouldn't be here. I understand completely how easy it is to losed hope (look at the title of this thread)...Lord knows I just about lose hope every day. Trust God to solve this for you. Give it ALL to Him. His promise to you is better than you can even imagine!!<P>hurtingwife - reading your reply to me made me want to cry. Your sentiments are too kind. I, too, read posts from women who love their H's so unconditionally...I often wonder what it would be like to be married to one?<P>Am I right to assume that you were the betrayer in your marriage? When I post this. I'll go back and read your profile. If this is the case, may I ask of you the same questions I asked of rjr#2 earlier? I was interested in learning more about how and when she "woke up" and realized what she had done. Here's what I asked rjr#2:<P>What exactly do you now attribute your "grabbing onto reality"? I mean, was it do you think, the biochemical high in your brain wearing off (as every book on infidelity say MUST happen) or was it guilt on your part or was it some lovebuster your OM did? What was the timeframe of this realization? What event triggered the beginning of the end for your affair?<P>I'm almost tempted to give you my W's e-mail address!! Since nobody has seen her for several weeks, nobody knows what kind of state of mind she's in. Although I must admit getting an e-mail from a complete stranger (complete with quotes from your spouse) would be a real eye-opener, I don't know how'd she react. I would assume she would be angry as she is still neck deep into the fantasy (it is a fantasy...right?) She'd know that I had something to do with it and it would only serve to heap reality onto her idyllic dream world.<P>However, I really like the idea!! Maybe, if/when I sense a destabilization of the affair relationship, we could try it. Would you be willing if and when it came to that?<P>

Shattered,<BR>Actually, my H left almost 7 months ago (a few days after Chris' wife, BTW), and filed six weeks after that. He filed immediately after I discovered that there was an OW - either to make what he was doing somehow "right", or because she pushed him too, I think. I have not yet given up hope, even though everyone I know in "real life" thinks I am nuts.

Dear Shattered 1<P>I feel for you. I would like to share with you a super fantastic book titled "Winning Your Wife Back Before Its To Late" by Gary Smalley<BR>I highly recomend it to anyone whose wife has left them. I have names of other books on relationships, infidelity, divorce is not the answer, hope for the separated. If anyone would like the Titles and Authors please E-mail me at laroerem@aol.com<P>Peace be with you. <p>[This message has been edited by M Go BLUE (edited September 20, 1999).]

Hi Shattered-<P>I am glad you wee feeling better after church. I ahve always been a believer-just not a faithful follower. But--I do thank God every time he does something to remind me he is watching out for us. Many years ago I had a bad experience when I was going to church and havent forced myself to go back although the first place I went to talk about my bad situation was to a church pastor. And-it was my H that betrayed me. he spent two years having an affair. Did I mention my best friend also had a two eyar affair ? You guessed it-they were together-right under my nose-for two years (although H insists I tell all it wasn't a full time relationship-many months in between contact). Is that supposed to somehow make me feel better?????????????? I woke up this morning at 1 with a migraine and was sick for over 8 hours. I don't know if I can go through this for long <P>take care and thanks for always replying!!<P>*heartache*<BR>

Shattered,<BR>I am/was in your same shoes, w left me for married man. She was cruel and uncaring to me too! <BR>I had the same problems in the morning you do, all the evil thoughts owuld race into my head as soon as I woke up in the morning.<BR>I started getting on my knees and praying as soon as i got up in the morning, asking the Lord to take away my pain, and turning this mess over to him. I also prayed for my w, not that she would return to me, but that she would see the light and return to God. I prayed for his wll to be done and to do with me what he wanted.<BR>As for the affair, it seems to be over now, see my post Affairs Over, Now What ?<BR>I really believe the prayers and just talking with people have helped me overcome(?) this. My weekdays are good, I keep busy. However I still have problems with the weekends as they develop a lot of resentment. I still taking care of the kids, house, etc, while she's out dating. I try to keep busy and meet with friends, but it doesn't always help.<BR>Keep busy, pick up and old hobby, develop an new one, start livimg for you ! IF she does return she will need time. You may also be able to share your new hobby together.<BR>But most important is keep praying!!!!!<p>[This message has been edited by RWD (edited September 19, 1999).]

Shattered,<P>HAPPY BRITHDAY !!!!!! Maybe not the best one you've had, but I pray you are stregthened with this new year!<P>Sorry for the delay, life is far to chaotic sometimes. Nope, didn't go to Michigan. I grew up in upstate NY and moved here to the midwest a couple of years ago... But my highschool mascot was the Wolverine.. (is that right? Michigan - Wolverines??)<P>Anyway, to try to answer your questions..<P>'attribute your grabbing onto reality'<P> Well several things. Guilt definately, and also I felt God was saying to me..'this will not go on any further.'(this triggered my reaction) I told my H about the entire relationship that evening. <P>The OM had no idea I was going to do this of course, and actually neither did I. There were times when I had wished I hadn't until I told the OM it was over ( he would have been fine with that anyway-he never really cared-which actually was good) but clearly I wasn't strong enough. My H confronted the OM the next day and all hell broke loose for a week. OM did threaten my H in all sorts of ways - why? who knows. I felt like a child because my H 'ended it' for me, but knowing I had behaved like one it was fitting.<BR> I'm not sure that the high was wearing off at that point for me. I just finally did what was right. I wonder if it was like an alcoholic would get him or herself into a car wreck on purpose in order to force change or something. <BR> See the reality for me was knowing deep down that the OM was not for me (even if I weren't married) Looking at the relationship (which I thought at the time was one of value) and realizing it was wrong, and likely doomed no matter what the outcome. Knowing that deep in my heart my H would always be the one I loved, and if the OM had ever even asked me to 'be with him' when it came right down to it I would have choosen my H. No matter what my fantasy idea of my relationship was with the OM, again, I began to face up to the fact that it wasn't real- it just wasn't real. It was all about me coming to the end of myself. I was the one who was being fooled. The OM wasn't even fooled he told me as much. Really he wanted a 'friend' to keep at a safe distance and if this 'friend' would also have a physical relationship with him then cool! <P>I see your W as getting to the point of realizing that no matter how 'nice' this idiot is to her, now how he tries to buy her, and keep her around him..she will have to look at herself and put a value on her life. I mean the rest of it. Does she really want to be someone's OW?? I mean he can profess love until he is blue in the face but honestly, without the action of divorcing his wife (regardless of the stigma) she will ALWAYS be #2. It will have to get old. I'll pray it does sooner than later so that you can get to rebuilding.<P>I forgot about answering your duration question......I knew the OM for a year prior to our relationship (never thought of him as anything other than a nice friend)..he left the job we both worked at, then I did. He came back and I worked near by - we started talking again. What they say about being in a 'place' that can make one vunerable to an affair must be true. I had virtually no interest in him prior, and now all of the sudden I believe I am in love? Weird. Anyway three months into the 'talking' I find myself attracted to him. Emotionally trapped another three months, goes physical on two occasions last December I end it one month later. (6-8 months?) I think that's right.<P>Just keep going..when you have an opportunity show that you still love her. Take care of yourself too...do you have kids??<P>I turned 30 a month ago and feel like a new person. A wiser one. You're W can change too, really she can. Hang in there Shattered, ck back later..<P>Try to enjoy your Birthday!<P>-janet<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by rjr #2 (edited September 20, 1999).]

heartache/RWD/rjr#2 - <P>It's so nice to wake up, log on and be greeted by such kind and giving friends. You have all been so generous in your advice and support!<P>heartache - you mentioned that your H is back, but that you don't know how much more of this you can take. Is your H's affair over? I'm not sure I understand. perhaps you're experiencing the distancing from your H due to withdrawal? Is it the thoughts of the now ended affair that still haunt you?<P>I hope your migraine is now under control and you were able to enjoy some rest last night. I'll be thinking of you today.<P>RWD - I'm confused. I was under the impression that your W's affair was over. However, you state in the same post that she's 'out dating'. What's up with that? Is she dating men, or is she just out with girlfriends?<P>Good suggestion on praying immediately upon waking in the morning. I've got to believe it's a brain chemistry thing that mornings are the worst. I suppose it could be that my only respite from the pain is when I sleep, so when I wake up it's a big ration of reality all at once. Mornings used to be one of our favorite times to make love as well.<P>I used to love weekends as well...now it's just two days where I don't have a primary focus. Instead I focus on things that begin my downward spiral again. I have been getting together with friends and family (her family to be exact) and that helps a lot. In fact, BIL (W's brother), SIL, SIL's cousin and I got together Friday night to play Euchre (popular midwest card game). I had a GREAT time!!! (First time I had a belly laugh since May...honest.)<P>I will continue to pray hard. I like your approach though. Up to this point, I've been praying for W's return to me. A much better thing to pray for is that she return to God. That's wonderful! That's God's will in any case. IF she returns to me, well that's just icing on the cake!! Thanks for that RWD!!<P>rjr#2 - (Why the #2 on your handle? Also, if your name is Janet, why the Rjr?)<P>Janet, you are just so wonderful to write such a lengthy and detailed post to me. One of the possible fallouts of this crisis for me is that I turn bitter, resentful and become so totally non-trusting of other human beings that I will never get to give and receive unconditional love to/from a woman. The time you obviously spent reaching out to me renewed my faith that there are people out there that can care for my welfare.<P>Thanks for the birthday wishes. You know, this morning was particularly difficult for me. Today is my 40th birthday, you know, one of those milestone events in your life that only come every so often. (Wedding day, birth of children, anniversaries, decade birthdays, i.e., 20th, 30th, 40th, etc.) I had always dreamed since I was a little boy that my 40th birthday would be special. After all, I was going to be 40 when the year 2000 came!!<P>This dream always had my W doing something very special for me - a surprise b-day party, a night out at a B&B, romantic candlelight dinner and an incredible lovemaking session. In my wildest imagination, could I ever think of the horror that has befallen me instead. I will only turn 40 once...I really feel like I've gotten a head start on the slippery slope of life...<P>Sorry if I sound so down. I'm just not looking forward to today as I always dreamed I would.<P>Janet - your posts alway inspire hope within me. I know how far you've gone and how much you and your H love each other. I hear of so many other success stories on this forum as well and that really raises my hopes as well. As much as I want my W back, I have to also prepare myself for the unpleasant possibility that she won't come back. Thank you for your posts and God bless you Janet!!

Happy Birthday!<P>I turned 40 last month...and I would think about being 40 in the year 2000 as a kid, too. I thought it sound so far away and so old. I know I liked my 30's better than my 20's and my 20's better than my teens, so I hope the trend continues.<P>My H turned 40 last year and started his affair within weeks. I think all the fall out has given him a better attitude, though. Getting your mid life crisis over with at the first possible opportunity may have its advantages if you gotta do it.<P>Anyway, Happy Birthday!<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Hi Shattered<P>Was that you who e-mailed me for the list of books? I somehow lost the e-mail after reading it. If it was not you, then whom ever it was try another e-mail. Sorry.<P>rjr#2 Your were correct. Michigan Wolverines. My user name should tell you I am a M fan. I live in Ann Arbor

Hi Go Blue...<P>Thanks for the info. Always afraid my sports savy (or lack there of) will get me into trouble. Don't mess with a serious sports fan right? My brother used to live in Ann Arbor..nice place visited once ....<BR> <BR>Shattered,<P>I'm glad if you are encouraged by my post, really I am.<P>I'm just telling you how it was for me though.. just how it was.<P>I originally started posting about March or so (I've been around awhile). I tried to sign in as jr (for a nickname I used to have) and when it had already been used I just threw another 'r' in there to make it work...Then sometime in April the MB server went down and we all had to re-sign up with names. rjr no longer worked so I had to use rjr #2 to still maintain the 'identity' I had prior to the crash. ..Not too exciting really. My H has not ever visited this site. I often had hoped he would. He is an amazing guy. <P>You know it struck a cord with me when you said you were looking forward to this Birthday today. It reminded me that my H told me his 30th birthday felt like a lie. I had been lieing to him right through it, and he had hoped it had been special. I ruined it, or at least ruined the memory of it for him.<P>He is 31 now and I just turned 30. Still he made my 30th special, because somehow he loves me so much. It blows my mind.<P>Sorry you are down. I was going to write on your other post but I don't know what else to add. New beginings story sounded alot like mine. I can remember that nite I told him. How he walked out of the room and I doubled over in literal pain of what I had done. I HAVE NEVER BEEN IN A DARKER PLACE. I described it to my H that it was as if you where standing in a black pit and there was no way out. I too lay on the floor sobbing. There are just some things you can't get back, and you can take away. I felt defeated. I did want to die.<BR>I did just want my H to leave me. Not because I wanted him gone, but to give me what it was I felt I deserved.<P>I'm babbling, sorry..kind of tired..up at 4am today and fading fast.. <P>Try to enjoy the rest of your day friend..<P>-janet<P>

Hey Shattered, <P>40? It looks like you missed the 40's party that was on the forum a month or two ago. It seems like you couldn't swing a dead cat around here with hitting someone who was 40. Yes, me too. Like you, I certainly thought it would be much different. All those special days are not quite the same when this junk is going on. But, so is life I suppose. No need to be depressed though, go to a movie, indulge in a decident cake, something. You hold the key. <P>Time, persistence, and love will get you there. your getting some great help from janet. She was one of the ones who helped me through my darkest hours (thanks janet). I also see through some of your other threads that you are asking some of the same things to the betraying ladies that I did when I was where you were. Keep doing that. Keep trying to figure out your situation. Get your mind to the point where you have the answers you need to make the right decisions for your plan. <P>You'll get there; I just know it. <P>SHA

Janet:<P>What is it about birthdays? I found out about Petunia's affair 5 days after my 29th B-Day. Needless to say, it was the worst birthday I've ever had.<P>Hope you and "(I'm just a) Bill" are still doin' great.<P>-----<P>Shattered:<P>Listen to this woman's advice. She helped me SO much in the early days. Now, Petunia and I are SO much better off. It's amazing how helpful everyone here can be.<P>I hope your W wakes up soon and realizes what she's doing. I think, sooner or later, she's gonna be REALLY sorry for doing this.<P>Best of luck to you.<P>------------------<BR>/// Lone Star * ///<P><BR>

Hi Lone Star!<P>How's the mr.asstistant DA man doing??<P>Birthdays are just weird, I agree....can't fight them either.<P>Me and 'Bill' are fine He's stressed beyond what I've ever seen him but still we manage to love and care for each other..I try to hold him every chance I get. The affair never really comes up anymore and that is probably good. Man- on Friday it will be 8 months ago since I told him. Wow. With the OM not working nearby anymore I feel so much better. I have relaxed. Won't see him drive by or anything which has put this fading into overdrive....<P>Glad that all is well with you. LS!! Take care.<P>SIR,<BR>Watch them swinging dead cats...I like em live you're funny.<P>I appreciate you all saying that I help, and Im glad if I do but all I'm doing is talking. I probably talk too much But if I am helping then it just helps me more. So I guess that's good.<P>Sometimes I wonder why I'm hanging around. I don't mean that in any bad way ...just not sure why...<P>talk to you guys again,<BR>j<P>