Been in plan "B" since April 3rd with no contact at all for 2 weeks. To start plan "B" told WW that I wanted her to leave since she would not NC with OM. WW has her separate checking acct. statements sent to OM's house c/o OM. She admitted to this in Jan 04 and denies taking $ (EN) from him. WW has been telling me since Jan or that she would change her address and have it sent to our house. But, she always has a reason why she did not do it. On the Fence big time, I know. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Two week ago she called me to ask if I wanted to come with her to a BBQ a her relatives house. I told her no, and that I would stay at home with our youngest son and our nephew. I ended up going with our oldest son to the BBQ since I was close to the relative.

At the BBQ WW was very treating me like before the A. But, in the 2 weeks since then we have not not contacted each other.

Was paid yesterday and WW has withdrawn $ for our joint ckecking account and she has not received any $ from OM.

Is it time to get a D or?????

</font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">M - 22 yrs
  kids - 2, 19 & 12
  Age - Me 47 & Her 44
  DD - #1 8/00, #2 4/04
  Plan "A" ing till 4/04</font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Did you do a good Plan A? I think you need to read more here. Lots of us are in your same situation. It is miserable to go through, but you can do it.

Hi end it,

I don't think you should file for a D yet,you only found out about the second A in February right? It also sounds like your WW wanted you to go to the BBQ for appearances,you think? That's my impression.Is this current A with the same dude or another guy since 8/2000?

I would not let WW begin to drain your account either.IMO,I would encourage the both of you to have separate accounts while she is committing adultery.You cannot trust that her "portion" of the joint account will be maintained and then she may start withdrawing a bit here and a bit there to fuel her financial needs from whatever is left.You need to protect yourself.

Does your WW work? If so,then she shouldn't really see a problem with splitting the accounts but then again she may be mad no matter what you do but you have children to protect as well.

O

believer & Octobergirl,

Thanks for the response.

believer: Yes, I have plan in plan A for from since Aug '00.

Octobergirl: I agree on the BBQ rational. Same guy since Aug'00. like so many others here a coworker, etc.. No matter how well I plan A w/o LB's the A keeps on rolling. Believe it is an EA for some time now after the EA turned PA in '00. I also believe I should split accounts, bu think it would be a major LB to her. I have been spending my time w/ our sons lately. She is staying at her parents house since she left.

end it?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by end it?:
<strong> I also believe I should split accounts, bu think it would be a major LB to her. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">end it, you shouldn't be giving her ANY money at all, that only enables her to have an affair and protects her from the consequences of her actions. Please get her removed NOW and protect your finances from her. Plan A does NOT mean that you endanger yourself to appease the WS.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">end it?:

Yes, I have plan in plan A for from since Aug '00.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Plan A is for the betrayed spouse to negotiate with the wayward spouse to totally separate from the lover without angry outbursts, disrespect, and demands. Plan A is not supposed become a lifestyle otherwise it encourages the continuation of the affair by giving the WS the best of both worlds. That is why if the WS can't or won't end the affair, then Plan B should be implemented. The majority of foggy, fence-sitting WS's despise Plan B because it takes away the control they had over the BS and forces them to depend 100% on the OP for all of their EN(emotional needs).

Even though there are no guarantees that your WW will return and recommit to the marriage, you will still be better off having gone through a good, solid Plan A/Plan B than if you didn't. For if you make the decision to divorce your WW after Plan A/Plan B, then your love for her will be completely gone and moving on with your life after the divorce will a lot easier.

Good luck.

MelodyLane & T00MuchCoffeeMan,

Thanks for the input! I have too agree w/ both of you...

How long do ya plan "B"?

I also feel like not paying for her medical, dental & car insurances. Is this a big LB in plan "B" or do you even can about LBing in plan "B" ????

Part of me wants to get a legal separation. But again...LB ????

Went to bank to remove her from account today. In order for this to happen, she must sign a form in front of the bank personnel since it is a joint acct. I am going to open an account at another bank, and use it from now on. I figure this way I do not even have to communicate w/ her at all. This will hopefully burn off the fog that she in & get her of the fence.

WW came to pick up son today. I walked by the entry door and looked and she was sitting in the car waiting for our son. She looked right at me and I at her. We didn't acknowledge each other. In the past she would park down the street, not in front of the house to pick up the boys.

thanks!!
ron

M - 22 yrs
kids - 2, 19 & 12
Age - Me 47 & Her 44
DD - #1 8/00, #2 4/04
Plan "A" ing till 4/04
Plan "B" currently

Good call on opening another account (and I assume you will move your deposits, etc). I opened a new account, and then, let my WH keep the old, joint account. Over time, eventually, he quit putting his deposits in that account (because he eventually figured out that I could see what he was up to on the old account, so he in turn ended his direct deposit and opened another account). The problem was, he was still writing checks on the old account (no money-writing checks= OVERDRAWN, BOUNCED CHECKS ALL OVER TOWN). So one day I get a call from the bank, that the account is overdrawn, and I am partially responsible.

I was SOOOOOO hurt. Hurt that not only was he hurting us emotionally, but he was also seemingly SCREWING us financially. So, eventually I had to close that account.

As far as LBs...let me put it to you this way.

Plan A is for you to focus on her...on meeting her needs. Showing her you care. Showing her what she has with you at home. Showing her the potential of what your marriage could be one day. In hopes that she is prompted to end the A, and take advantage of all your lovin goodness at home.

When, instead, you realize she is sitting on the fence, with chocolate icing all over her face, because she is SOOOOO having her cake and eating it too, then, you tend to get MORE hurt. Chances are, you start to lose that "lovin feelin" for your W, because you get reallllllly damn sick of playing the game. Really sick of the disrespect. Sick of the indifference. Sick of the pain she is consistently dolling out, and sick of the extreme highs and lows of the affair roller coaster.

So, thus, Plan B. Plan B is not for her. Please, please, please, please HEAR THIS. It took a long, hard battle for me to aptly understand this... and I JUST GOT IT!!!!! I SURE WISH I WOULD HAVE GOTTEN IT SOONER.....

Plan B is about YOU. It is about preserving your love for your W, because, for the first time, you say, "No thanks. I am not interested in seeing you eat cake. I am not interested in all the drama, or waffling back or forth, or BBQs, or all the stuff that comes with being married to you anymore. Nope. Done playing the game. Do not pass go, do not collect $200, bye bye now." You are not so done in the sense that you go to your attorney and serve your W with the big D papers, but you are done in the sense that you are not going to sit down and engage in all the baloney anymore, until your W can get her own act together. And that is what the Plan B letter outlines. In my opinion, it is a way to hopefully refresh their memory of your Plan A (with some kind words about your love for them, about your commitment to the M, etc). It is also a way to clearly DETAIL how the WS is supposed to get back into your life, now that you are telling them they are losing the priveledge of knowing you. And that PAINSTAKING CLEAR OUTLINE OF RECONCILIATION IS SIMPLE...drum roll please, "YOU CAN HAVE ME AND ALL MY AWESOME GOODNESS BACK WHEN YOU QUIT PLAYING WITH OM."

Plan B is like taking a sabattical from your marriage. During this sabattical, you turn your focus away from your marriage, and focus instead on yourself and your family. And let's face it, the whole time you were in Plan A, it was probably NEVER about your ENs, what YOU needed, what YOU wanted to do, what would make YOU comfortable...it was, most likely, about her, because you were busy working to fill her LB$.

So, sorry to be long winded, at this point, I think you are LONG past needing to put some serious thought into Plan B. It is obvious that your WW is not going to snap out of it during your Plan A phase.

And if we are going to be realistic, it is possible that she will NEVER wake up out of the fog.

But, at this point, you need to take a vacation from you M, and all the problems that come with it, and instead, learn how to enjoy and rebuild your life with your sons.

So, dont worry about LBs at this point. Now, I am not saying, go over there and tell her to go to hell, vandalize her car, beat up the OM, pour mustard all over her clothes, or tell everyone in town that she has a crack cocaine addiction. I AM telling you, that if by refusing to "play her game" anymore pisses her off...TOOO DAMN bad. If the reasonable and sensible things you need to do to find peace and happiness and security again, piss her off... OH WELL!!!!

Opening another bank account to protect your interest is not cruel and unusual punishment. It is a reasonable course of action to take in your situation, where your wife has lost her mind, and could very well risk your families financial security in support of her A "habit."

Taking her off your car insurance is a reasonable course of action to take (and probably, required by your insurance carrier, because if she no longer resides with you and the car is not at your home, the actuarial tables they are using for rates, risk, etc., are not accurate).

On the health insurance...let me ask you this. Will you continue to cover her health insurance if she never comes back, and you eventually divorce? Then you may want to put some thought into this...because, in all reality, she should have a taste of what real life will be like without you, if she doesn't get her head out of her ***. And in most likelihood, you will not be gracious enough to pay her insurance for the rest of your life.

Legal separation. I think that is not a bad idea. I think it makes quite a bit of sense to legally outline financial issues, custody, visitation, support, and the like, so there cannot be any games played with these elements of your life.

If you plan B, your job will be to:
Remove yourself from your WW's life. PERIOD.
Focus on you
Focus on your family
Protect your material possessions and financial assets
Face those dark and ugly places in your own heart, and fix them
Find your smile again
Build your friendships, extended family relationships (stay away or protect yourself from different sex relationships, because the last thing you want is to be a cheater too).
Take up a hobby
Get in shape
Start volunteering

Expect our WW to:
Kindly request contact at first (why won't you talk, can't we be friends, want to go to another BBQ???)
Start to do mean, cruel, unthinkable things (as a way to SPAWN you into contact, like a toddler will purposely misbehave, in order to get attention, because even negative attention is attention)
Threaten divorce (until you get the papers, and even sometimes then...it is all rhetoric)
Try to get all her ENs met by OM, and it likely it will not happen
Mention that she wants to work on the M, but be vague, non-commital, and NOT follow the steps you have outlined in your Plan B letter, like, hmmmmmm...SENDING A NO CONTACT LETTER AND LEAVING THE OM.

So, think about the possibility of going on that marriage sabattical...and enjoy the peace that comes from walking away from the crisis that is your current marriage.

Did you give your WW a letter? If so, did the experts here get to critique it?

Good luck. You will find you are much more successful at rebuilding yourself than your marriage right now, because you can cooperate with YOURSELF!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Your WW situation sounds a lot like mine. You are getting some excellent advice here. I wish I could give the eloquently expressed insight that the others have generously contributed to your cause.

When I found out about the OM, I was devastated beyond words and turned into a complete wimp. My WW treated me with the same respect I treated myself with…..virtually nil. She began playing with our money too, I looked the other way for a while.

Once I began to “grow a pair” again, I froze the credit cards, split the account etc. She was upset, yes, but she began to treat me with a tad…….barely a tad, more respect. It’s empowering if nothing else and gives a feeling of having a modicum of control again.

One does not have to do it in a mean, malicious way. Close the accounts empty them and give her half. One can open an account in a few minutes at a bank nowadays; she can hardly call that unfair or mean spirited.

I wish I had found this site earlier, had asked the questions and drawn upon the experience and strength of the members here. I would have chosen a different, better path. Would my marriage be in better shape? I don’t know. My sense of self and dignity sure would be. I certainly wished I would have exposed it sooner.

I am about to enter into a legal separation with my WW. She will then be able to advance the funds to buy her own house. Due to that, I will end up in a better financial position than if we would have completely left it to the lawyers. Out of guilt or a sense of responsibility or maybe the illusion of the future with the OM she was more generous than our local matrimonial property laws would have been.

Don’t get me wrong, I went from just paying off our mortgage, building a log cabin in the mountains to a very tenuous financial position. Oh well……money. I see my children more and have bonded with them through this. I am frugal, resourceful and like to stay at home and make wonderful meals. I like garage sales and reusing and repairing what others deem junk. I can fix my house when it breaks. I managed our money.

My WW likes credit cards, eating out, convenient foods and new stuff. She must pay to fix her house. She has never managed the money. She is in a precarious financial position now too. We will see how the added responsibilities weigh on her. The OM has a family with two sons and lives 300 km away. OK….so he has an airplane, but he won’t be picking up her slack.

I almost look forward to plan B. At least your WW seems to have wavered somewhat, mine hasn’t. Initially she didn’t seem sure, but her adulterous relationship seems to be going so well, she hasn’t looked back for a while. I will prepare to be single, fix-up my house and play with my kids. I work a 4 day/10 hr a day week. I have my kids for the other 3. Busy Busy Busy. But I have a clean conscience, and can tell my children when they are older how committed I was to their well being.

I don’t know if any of this works for my marriage, though there are a lot of testimonials here and a lot of anecdotal evidence. At least I feel like I’m doing something. I’d rather have a plan and a vision than passively watch my life fall apart.

Time for me to get on the Plan B letter.

I am trying to start plan B now. Just found proof of her affair Monday. This is the most painful experience of my life. Total betrayal. I feel like I have no value to her anymore and this all changed within a month. By her behavior I can tell that she has only changed in the last month. That is how new it is. When I confronted her about it she said she didn't want to be married anymore and that she wanted a divorce. That she had been feeling this way for months. I guess this guy really topped off her feelings. I can't believe it! It hurts soo bad. I thought I was a good husband: no mental or physical abuse, I pay attention to her and love her more than anything. I made her leave the house and now she is staying at his house. Sounds so pathetic, but I just want her back. I realize now that there were emotional needs that I wasn't meeting, but wish I would have taken her complaints seriously. I know what she did and is doing is soo wrong, but know that I am partially to blame and it kills me. Do most cheating wives come back?

ChristyV,

Thanks!!!!! You helped me find "my smile again". You made me laugh. Thank You, it felt good!

I have been posting her since 2000 [positive] and now u have validated my understanding of MB. I hope others read your reponse since it does show a clear application (my case) of the MB principles.

"Did you give your WW a letter? If so, did the experts here get to critique it?" It was not a letter, but a 'postit': "I do not want to speak with unless it is about you not having NO contact and changing your (bank acct.) address". Short and sweet I guess.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So, sorry to be long winded, at this point, I think you are LONG past needing to put some serious thought into Plan B. It is obvious that your WW is not going to snap out of it during your Plan A phase.

And if we are going to be realistic, it is possible that she will NEVER wake up out of the fog.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I couldn't agree more. You were not long winded. I is what I have been thinking and NEEDED to hear. For this I Thank you!

My best wishes to you!
ron

My main message here is that you are definately not alone! As a re-enforcement to what was said about WW fence sitting games...we have had 3 appointments now with Jennifer and it has all been about smiles and doing the homework and talking a good story etc. Today I found out that it has all been a lie. She and her OM boss are going as strong as ever. The no contact requirement is a must! The only reason that I didn't move to plan B today was due to my DD only being 2 weeks from exams. I didn't want to put that extra stress in her life right now. It also gives me 2 weeks to put all of the financial protection discussed here in place. I emailed My plan B letter and exposure letters to Jennifer for her review and advice.

Basically I don't have any real advice for you. Just the unfortunate encouragement that you are not alone. You will also see alot of people here use the phrase"things are not always what they seem"....boy is that the truth!!

Before you guys decide to jump into plan B...YOU MUST DO A GOOD PLAN A FIRST...that is the plan.

If you have not done a good plan A...go back do that until you cannot take it anymore then do plan B.

Plan B will not work if you have not done a good plan A. Plan A works in making your marriage look happier and making YOU stronger to face plan B.

It will be hard for you to stick to plan B if you have not been SLAP and your face rub in the MUD enough.

"It will be hard for you to stick to plan B if you have not been SLAP and your face rub in the MUD enough." zizzycool, this is a very true statement

In my last conversation with my WW; I told her 'I feel like doormat'. I read in a post that when u feel like a doormat u are doing a good plan A. I believe this is a good rule of thumb to go by.

WW has come back to our house 3 times wanting to stay. And each time I was able to ask her if she had broken ALL contact w/ the OM. And each time she has returned to her parents house. It hasn't been easy to do. There are times when I just want to call her, hug her, etc. But, after each time or cycle if you will, i feel better about my actions (plan B).

My 19 yr old told me "I know what mom is doing and I don't agree with it. She is not being a mother to me and my brother and not being a wife to you." These were very powerful words to hear coming from my son.

To all of you thinking of moving to plan B: hang in there! keep posting here to vent and take care of yourself. Don't let the WS drag you down with them

Juke - Post a thread of your own so we don't get mixed up. Most of us have been through what you are going through, and can support you and give you great advise. Yes most WS's do come back to the marriage.

endit - Sounds like you are getting your ducks in a row for Plan B. You will need to get a Plan B letter.

Yes, I need to draw one up and post it for input from you guys. Write it, don't say it! right!

Thanks to all of u for the support in taking the needed/important step!

r

Great idea. Plan B letter should include an apology for your part in making her vulnerable to an affair, a statement that you love her and want her back, and a request for no contact to protect your love for her, and a way for her to come back to marriage (NC with OM and a plan to rebuild).

So get busy.

Thanks for the kick in the butt!! I need it. i am setting on my own fence and need plan B fully.

lets see here ??? the plan for rebuild will be a hard one. mmmmm

r

Marriagebuilders has a plan for rebuilding the marriage, so don't worry about that one.

My WH is still fence-sitting, but he knows that I post here, and he knows that there is a plan to rebuild the marriage. He mentions it quite often.

So get your letter together, and post it.

Must take star*fish for a great outline of a PBL. And betrayed by 2 for some phrases.

Fire away Guys:

.....I love you,

You asked me not long ago why I wanted to love you. Well, when we first met, I saw a young girl with a beautiful smile. When I saw you for the first time on the balcony outside of that apartment 26 years ago I new you were the one.

You must undertand I married you for life and I want to stay married to you. I am willing to do what it takes to be the husband you've always wanted and to address the things I did wrong in our marriage.

The affair is so painful for me that it will destroy any love I have for you. In order to protect those feelings I must end all contact with you.

When the affair is over I would love to talk with you about our future. Until that time please respect and understand my wish for no contact whatsoever In an emergency you can reach me through my brother at ........

Love,
r