I have posted a couple of times before, but the short story is it has been 3 months since confirming my W's A. It was an 8 month EA that went PA probably 1 month before I found out.

So here is my dilemia. When I confirmed the A 2 months ago, I asked my wife to do NC, MC, and a policy of honesty. She agreed, but after a week said the MC was for me not her, she did not need it. I took what I could get and we had our first MC session. In that session the counselor beat me up pretty good. I said when I come home from work and she is depressed, I get depressed, if she is angry I get angry. Rightly so the counselor gave it to me saying I need to be independent of her and not share her feelings. I agree with that. So the session went well, because my W loved seeing me be to blame. She told the counselor that the affair occurred bacause I never talked ot her, I would only talk about the household issues and not spur new subjects. So our homework out of that session was 1 date night, don't take on her emotions, and work on conversation. I think we did good on the latter 2, but on the date we failed. I scheduled 2, and both were cancelled, the second being a golf date that got rained out. Instead of still going out, she cancelled the babysitter (4 kids, 7,5,4,2). When I asked why she said 'We have too much to do we can't be going out on weeknights together.' I didn't know what to say, so I said nothing and let it slide. The date was important, because the counselor asked the my wife what was the most important thing in her life, She said taking care of her children. The counselor said the answer was a common misception, but the H (spouse) is the most important. Her reasoning being that kids need stability and without the two of us together there is no stability.

Okay, so that brings us to session 2. When the counselor asked how we did on our homework, she asked about why we couldn't make a date in 3 weeks. I explained the failed golf date, and she asked the W why she didn't just keep the babysitter and go out. W replied that a date night is not important, the kids are important. Counselor worked many angles, but W still said 'Nope kids come first'. Counselor asked what if your H leaves, and she said 'So be it, he has to find what makes him happy'. The counselor then asked about the A and why it ended. She said it ended because I found out. Counselor followed up with 'If he hadn't found out would it have ended', W replied 'Yes, one way or another.' I knew what she meant (she told me this once before), so I prompted my W to answer what that means. She said she would have left me or the A would have died (she had no plan to let it die). Counselor again asked her how she could be so distant about the situation, and she said 'That's just how I am'. Counselor went through a couple of other exercises and then asked W to schedule an alone session. W refused, saying this is not for her, it is for me. Counselor asked did she truly believe that she had nothing to change to make this marriage work, and she said 'Yes'. So counselor has asked instead to see me alone, I have know idea where that will go. It took 2 sessions, but then my W true personality came out, and the counselor figured it all out. My W believes she is always right, she does not take advice from anyone (they are always wrong), conceals her feelings, and she is very distant.

Thankfully she drove seperate because she had errands to run. Otherwise I'm sure I would drain the LB. Later that evening we had a wedding to go to. It was great, the W and I had fun, we danced, talked socialized with others. I think her point was we don't need MC to make this work. I played along with that, but I don't agree. She is hiding the reasons for the A. I really think she wants to go back to the way life was and shove the A under the carpet. She feels I'm making too big of a deal out of this.

Okay, so I guess the advice I'm looking for is multifaceted. Does it sound like our counselor is on the right path (she sure nailed my wife's traits)? What should I do next? (my thought is nothing, wait till the next session) Do I stop the MC counseling and just go with the flow? Last one, Do I stand a chance?

Any help, advice, or words are welcome.

Wow, lot going on here. I would like to say it sounds like you have a good MC, willing to look at both parties and get a state of the M, not just gang up on W b/c of A. I don't think there is a WS alove that doesn't want to sweep the A under the rug and act like it didn't happen. As for my W, her feelings are still so strong, that talking about A and OM right now just make her want to contact him again. I have told her that there will be a day and time when we WILL discuss A and OM. But, I also told her that after we discuss the A, and she answers all my questions, that subject is closed FOREVER, and I won't use it againist her. My W seems to understand taht I wanted to put this behind us, but needed some resolution. Try that angle, maybe if she knows that this won't be brought up for the rest of her life, then maybe she can open up in the future.

Here is another thought, but mind you this is all new to me too so I'm struggling for a way to get my WH into MC.
I think he is in the thought that if he chooses to stay with me that we can fix this on our own, without counseling. I am not.
He has also expressed concern that the MC will mostly focus on him and not me or us. And I must admit I wouldn't be interested in going either if I thought the MC was to point out only one mates faults.

Okay so this is the strategy I'm using - MC appt is still a couple of weeks away so I'm not sure if its going to work.

I've told him that I was unable to see that our marriage was breaking down (prior to any thought of A) and that although I recognized a breakdown I lacked the skills to fix us. And in fact, he agrees with me about the approximate time our marriage started to breakdown and I pointed out he too, lacked the skill or tools to fix us.
And now the M has an A and we still are unsure how to fix this OR if it is possible. Our communication has improved but he is still in the A.

So my thought is that we need guidance to get some things worked out, whether we continue to be married or not. That historically we have proven we lack the skills to had stopped our marriage from going down hill to the point that an A occurred. And so my confidence in being able to deal with it now by ourselves is very low and that I need the help of someone that can guide us. Not tell us what is wrong, but guide us in our finding our way that will be suitable to us.

Anyway thats my two cents. Every situation is different but I know my WH is afraid to be pinned to the wall for his wrong doings.

You asked, "Does it sound like our counselor is on the right path (she sure nailed my wife's traits)?"

Yes. The MC doesn't take sides--he sees you as people, each with faults. He sounds like a pretty good MC. He will keep on the A until she talks about it--which is the best thing that could happen.

The best thing I've ever heard about M goes something like:

"Q: What is the best thing a wife can do for her children?
A: Love their father."

You asked, "What should I do next?"

Your analysis seems appropriate at this time. You don't want to get into the habit of talking about the A 24x7.

You asked, "Do I stop the MC counseling and just go with the flow?"

No. Keep going to MC. You may be surprised what you learn.

You asked, "Do I stand a chance?"

Yes, but she sounds to me like she is still "foggy". I would check on NC.

Thanks for the input. Whitefeather, I have spun the MC every which way, it always comes back to she does not feel she needs or wants it. She is going to help me get over this, but nothing more. I'm not sure she plans on even going back, but I will cross that bridge when the MC asks me to have her come back. Also a good MC will not take sides. She works for both sides, so your H should not feel he will be pinned to the wall. Some days the heat will be on him others you.

Jimmy Mac, I like your post. I wish she felt that way.

Thanks again for the replies

Quick curiousity question, are/were either of your wife's parents alcoholic? This story sounds so familiar it is scary.

No on the alcoholic thing. Were the couple next door. Great upbringing, great education, great careers, many friends say what a perfect couple. If they knew the truth, not so much.

<small>[ May 17, 2004, 10:46 PM: Message edited by: LifeWillNeverBeTheSame ]</small>

LWNBTS,

We all come out of D/D with differing thoughts on what actions to take.


To be quite honest with you....If H (FWS) had told me No to M/C I doubt I would have stuck it out. YOUR very strong to do so. I would have been in plan B right away!!(him out the door)

My main requirements after finding out about A were the following:( I DO BELIEVE BS's have the right to demand certain things if the FWS wants to really work on the M)

confess to God/ ask for forgiveness
Get back/right with him (God)
Go to M/C~~~~I/C
READ READ READ

Our M/C who is christian gave us Gods specifics on the ORDER of our LIFE:(how we are to place importance according to God's word)

1. GOD
2. Spouse
3. Family
4. Job
5. lastly~~~~SELF

Now........a question for you?
Do you help out with the children? participate in extra-corriculars etc????

Sounds like W feels you neglect this area thus SHE HAS TO make it HER TOP priority????

Blessings,
Atruheart

Im with the other poster in wondering about N/C too....doesn't sound like your W's wholeheartedly wanting to work on M yet. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

atruheart

Well, I really believe I'm there for the kids. One of my issues in the relationship is that we seem to be two single parents, sharing the responsibility, her 8-6 M-F me 6-9 M-F and all Saturday and Sunday. We have 4 so it is hectic, and I want to give her the breaks, so I don't really mind, but just wish we did more as a family on an impromptu level. I take them for bike rides on the weekend, and she is always too busy with chores and errands. I guess my point is that she never has complained about that, if it is an issue I wish she would mention it.

As for your other point on NC, your both worrying me. She was extremely cocky about her feeling that this is the way it is and if I don't like it too bad. Made me wonder if she had been in contact with him. I'm afraid to ask, because I know that will cause an issue.

Well, I don't think I will confront her until after my next session. That is the one I'm going to alone. I'm hoping she has some advice on handling the situation.

Thanks again for the input.

I agree that you need to go to M/C, even if you go by yourself. You can learn what YOU can do and what will help YOU to deal with the situation, and then if she goes later, great.

My WH hates counselors. If he does decide to give up the OW and quit drinking (my two criteria for reconciliation), I seriously doubt he'll ever go to counseling with me. He sees it as a waste of money and, I think, believes the M/C will blame everything on him. I think this is probably a common view for WS's.

My WH is somewhat like your WW, (though WH is an alcoholic which affects things). He believes he is always right and his attitude is and has always been about most things in life, "It's my way or the highway!" It used to be his favorite statement.

As for the kids coming first, that is a women thing. My mother, who was a stay-at-home-mom has tried for years to drill into my head that my children should come before all else and that life should basically revolve around them. Each time they have problems, she suggests that maybe I'm not giving them enough attention.

While this may sound cold, I do agree that the focus should be primarily on the spouse. The children will grow up and leave (hopefully, though questionable in my case <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ). The spouse is the one you are supposed to be with forever.

It's NOT that I believe children should be ignored. They are precious gifts from God! But if one ignores their spouse, that can have devastating consequences as well. I as a mom understand the need to take care of children. But I think dates are VERY important between a husband and wife. I watched my M fall apart and my H end up in an A over the last year because I was working too long of hours and because our focus was not putting each other first (after God).

So...rambing. If your wife is still willing to stay in the M, I believe there is hope. She obviously still has feelings for you. How to get her to open up is the question, and I don't have good answers because my WH is a very "closed" person emotionally, too. I'd start by trying to get her to fill out the EN questionnaire from this website. I could never get my WH to do it, but I think it would be a great start at trying to figure out what goes on in the other person's brain and to have something to work with for improving your relationship.

LL

So my MC, is asking how I can stay married to a person like my wife.

So here is a summary of my session today with the MC, which my wife did not attend. As I posted earlier, my wife told her last week that she was only there for me, that she had no issues, and didn't need/shouldn't have to change, that if I was unhappy, it was my problem and I should find a way to solve it.

So this session the MC started with just asking how the week went. After that she asked why I didn't confront my wife more on her lack of interest in participating. I didn't because I didn't want to drain the LB. She asked if i often failed to confront her, I said all the time. That whenever I do confront her she makes me pay emotionally, and then I give in later, so why fight it (so we went on for about 10 minutes on that trait of mine). So then she asked why I want to save the marriage, most of my answers revolved around the kids, and past happiness. She asked if I saw myself trusting her in the future, and I said 'No not without her participating in the recovery'. She then went back to the last session. She said never in her 25 years of doing this has she had someone so cold and unremorseful in her office. She said my wife was admitting to me that she was using me (things she said during the conversation). She also said the fact that my wife said that she thought I would divorce her when I found out, was a clear signal to her desire. She then went on to confirm some of my fears. Now she did say that any decision is mine, and I have to be ready to live with the consequences of that decision, but that I should not hold on to past happiniess.

Wow so now I'm really confused. My heart says stay, but in my mind I know her heart is not in this. I really feel she is just biding her time until she feels she can strike out on her own. She mentioned to the OM in her email's how she wished she could support herself, and if things fell apart now she and the kids would lose everything (yes I was not mentioned). I attributed the comment to the fog, but in the last few weeks has signed up for classes at the community college (already has a B.S. in Comp Sci, but wants to go back for her Masters). I have been very supportive of that endevor, but now I'm wondering.

So I don't know what I'm looking for here. I think my plan is to tell her again that I love her, but without her participation I can't stay. Without her participation I have no idea what her needs are, so all the time in the world won't help me meet them if she won't share them.

Any thoughts, words of encouragement?

Thanks

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by LifeWillNeverBeTheSame:
<strong> ....Wow so now I'm really confused. My heart says stay, but in my mind I know her heart is not in this. I really feel she is just biding her time until she feels she can strike out on her own.....
Any thoughts, words of encouragement?

Thanks </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">JMHO, your W is setting you up. Your MC is good at drawing you out to make you think for real (not just living in the past). You can't fit this changed character into your W. You can't do it visa versa either.

What your MC appears to be doing is showing you that your W is now a WS and you need to recognize and treat her as such.

As you noted above, your heart and mind are not yet in sync. Therefore you need to stay in plan A until you ready to make some life changes (ie: going to plan B).

It appears your W is setting you up to wear you out so you will do her dirty D deed for her. That way you can be blamed and she can have her A guilt free. You getting this?

Remember: DON'T ENABLE the A.

Love your family and who your W was. Not who she is now. Plan A your spouse and learn to plan B your WS. You will get there. it takes a while and NOONE can rush your feelings, not even you.

Have you read Surviving an Affair? or Love Must be Tough? The later book is by Dr James Dobson. Excellent source for those whose WS are using them big time.

Remember you love your W not the WS. As hard as it is you need to learn to differentiate between the 2 characters. You may have trusted your W with your life but you can't trust a WS past the end of your nose.

Now go work with your MC. She/He has a lot to help you with but you have to be willing to hear them out. If you can do some phone counseling with Steve or Jennifer here at MB. They will give you a plan of action.

JMHO,
L.

Orchid,

I agree that the WS is pushing me to the D. I you are right she does not want to be the bad guy. But I guess I don't understand why I shouldn't just give it to her.

The MC is preparing me, she gave me names of mediators, she explained the dynamics of custody and how a divorce does not mean an end to the relationship with my kids, only changes the dynamics. So she is definitely preping me for it. If it happens this week or 6 months from now, I don't think I will be any more prepared then. Maybe I will have called a lawyer by then and found out my rights, but really can't say I would be 'prepared'.

Thanks