I posted this in the Divorced/ Divorcing forum but I thought I would try a more positive(?) crowd.

My marriage is on the express train towards divorce. I wake up some mornings wishing it would go faster and some wishing it would stop so we could try to work towards getting back together. My WW expresses no interest in working things out, she just wants a happy/ friendly divorce. I don't have that in me. I see it as either work towards saving our marriage or work towards being enemies and which way I want to go changes daily, sometimes more often. Anybody else here feel that way too?

I would make the divorce as friendly as possible. If it is going to happen either way you might as well. I am in the same basic boat as you on that. When people get vengful in divorce it hurts them and they never forget. Just found out that my wife is having an affair a week ago. She wants divorce no matter what it seems. But I think she is feeling chemicals and not thinking with her head. The actual divorce may be the only thing to snap her out of this.

I have seen others do it but I don't think I can be friendly post divorce. I am pretty bitter now, not vengeful, bitter. If divorce is what it takes to snap her out of it, do you want her back?

Originally posted by deafjeff:
I see it as either work towards saving our marriage or work towards being enemies and which way I want to go changes daily, sometimes more often.

LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Understandable... the "enemies" part made me smile.

Here's what I think may be working it's way through your emotional tunnel...

You don't want a divorce. You want to save the M.

If a divorce is the unhappy and undesired outcome ... how in heck can you proceed if still having warm fuzzy feelings about your W (as in "friendly divorce")???

Hell, if you were REALLY friendly, why not stay married and improve from there???

Sometimes, the only ~bearable way~ to say "good-bye forever" to a loved one ... is to get really really angry at her. That allows the release to happen.

So here you are... trying to hold on to someone you love... who wants to be friends ... in other words, she doesn't want to feel bad about breaking your heart...

Well... that's not bloody likely until you feel indifference toward her.

So, get used to the ping-pong of emotions... it's because you CARE!

Pep

DJ,
All I can say now is don't give up. You have alot on your side and the A will end. You have to delay and stall and do whatever it takes to endure this thing. I'm not sure how you got to this point so fast b/c I have not read your other posts. You can save this M if YOU want to, but it will take your full resolve and commitment. A divorce never ends. If you give in to that friendly D crap, you're just trying to put a positive spin on a disaster for your family.

Please think hard and long.
Christ's Love,
Roman121

Thanks Pep and R121.

Pep, you mean I have to get really angry again? I thought I already BTDT. A lot of the enemies part is from the custody battle. WW has threatened to "pack my [censored] and move as far away from you as I can and you will only see the boys when the paperwork says you can.". A lot of the enemies part is from her A and the fact that it continues. She doesn't want to feel bad about breaking my heart? She apologized IF she hurt me. She ain't even got a clue. I guess I'm just not used to caring, thats how I have stayed stress free all these years.

R121, I'm not sure how I got to this point so fast either. On January 26th, 2004 9:55 a.m. I was ignorant (same as bliss right?). 10:00 a.m. my WW (I wasn't aware she was wayward at the time)walked into my office and told me things were bad, she had moved out, shes not happy, and she wants a DV. This was my first clue we had a problem. Two days later I got the paperwork. Things have dominoed since. How can I save the M by myself? WW expresses no intrest in recovery only DV. I haven't given in to the friendly DV crap, thats WW's spin.

Jeff... many WS seem to want an "amicable, friendly divorce." Intellectually, there's no doubt whatsoever that it's better than the alternative.

But that doesn't make it easy to achieve in practice. So often the WS also wants everything to be friendly during the process and forever afterwards... still friends, but just not married. What they never seem to realize is how difficult it is for the BS to reach the point of even being able to consider that. A few things make it difficult:

1) The BS usually has justifiable feelings of hate towards the TBXWS. Simply "switching them off" and becoming chummy and friendly once again with somebody who made conscious decisions to betray, deceive and dishonour you is not possible. It takes time. And in the meantime, the BS is invariably made to feel like an [censored] for NOT immediately switching gears and being friendly.

2) The TBXWS has often already shacked up with somebody else, whether the OP or somebody new. That compounds the hurt. They can claim all they want that they've found somebody new, who accepts them warts and all, and with whom they're happy and therefore honest and forthright. Terrific. But the BS is left thinking, "What? Why wasn't I good enough to receive such honesty? Why am I the poor schmuck who got stuck with nothing but polluted memories? Why does this new guy/woman get he benefit of your newfound commitment to honesty and fidelity, rather than me (you know, the one you swore those pesky vows to)?"

3) The TBXWS probably already feels bad about what they did. They know they screwed the BS over. And they're hoping that, just because they're cheerful and sorry about it, that makes it all OK and the BS should just happily accept the new reality, brush themselves off and move on. They don't realize that, while they've had all the info for a long time, the BS are often still dealing with the sensation of getting the wind knocked out of them.

4) The TBXWS probably want to be forgiven. They expect that forgiveness to come a lot sooner than the BS is capable of giving it. What they don't realize is that, if the marriage is ending, the BS is no longer under any "obligation" to forgive. Their primary obligation is to themselves, which means that they don't have to rush forgiveness. They can take all the time they need to work the anger and resentment out of their system. If that means they don't forgive TBXWS for a few years, well, that's too bad. The BS will forgive when they're ready. It might take a few years. Or it might just happen by accident, a few years later, when the BS realize that they just don't give a [censored] about TBXWS anymore, so forgiveness can be casually and silently given.

I can't say I'm really trying to answer your question, beyond saying that you should aim for an amicable divorce if at all possible, at least for the sake of your kids. But I do want you to know that I'm in a similar situation, and I understand what you're feeling and why.

Stay strong, brother...

<small>[ May 18, 2004, 06:02 PM: Message edited by: reservoirdog1 ]</small>

Hi DJ,

I am in the same situation as you only farther ahead and with a WH.My WH does not want to work on the marriage,continues the adultery and so what I am left to do is what I feel is right.I have waitied a long time for my WH to come around and went through 2 false recoveries,if they can be called that.I am and was in this alone,the only one doing any real continuous work to try and save my marriage but one person cannot do it alone for long.

So,I have started filling out paperwork that I can use for a Legal Separation or a D.I was going for a LS but now I am going to D WH.I have had enough and am at the end of my rope.So,I am still in my Plan B and I do not believe you have to have a smiley and happy friendly D if you don't feel like you can.I mean honestly,this woman,your WW tore out your heart,is wrecking your family and you are supposed to be "nice" about it all? NO way!

I am not suggesting that you be mean or rude but you can have a quiet dignified silence toward your WW like I do to my WH.I no longer LB or even talk to him if I can humanly help it.I am done talking,listening,snooping,wondering,believing and loving.It is all gone,ruined by my WH.If he thinks he can have it better with the homewrecker,this "woman" who is helping to destroy our marriage and family all for her own agenda,then they deserve each other.

You don't have to make any decisions yet since you are still early in the game but just protect yourself financially if anything.You have children that need you,the stable and rational caring, parent despite what your WW believes in her own mind.She is moving so fast in this process she is going to wake up one day and say OMG! Really,when a WS moves that fast they can't possibly keep that intense fire burning for so long and they can't see what's down the road.This fantasy is going to blow up in a big way one day and you may just not be around for those fireworks.She is running away from what she chooses not to face and it will come back to haunt her.

What have you done to protect yourself financially?

O

Hi DJ

I feel your pain. I've gone through all the stages of grief over and over again......sometimes all the stages in 5 Minutes!

My WW has done the same thing, no maybes, no half measures, no "I think I'll get an Apt." It was all "I'm gone, I want out, I'm buying a house" I get the impression that the women seemed to be wired differently that way. Was that phrasing too technical?

I don't know what amicable friendly divorce is. It 's sort of a contradiction in terms. Like "friendly fire" What's so friendly about a piece of emotional shrapnel through your guts?

I think the separation or possible divorce can do without the malice and derogatory communication if that's what it means. Kids don't need to see mom and dad at their worst, but chums......no, not for a while.

I think that's why plan B appeals to me. It takes away the opportunity for communication to degrade to an ugly level. No one will benefit from that, certainly not any sliver of hope for reconciliation is served.

I know everyone here says to use your head, don't react with emotionally motivated actions. I agree. Rushing towards a divorce is something we all should approach gingerly. We can't stop our spouse from doing that, but are we in any position to make a rational choice with lifelong ramifications while in such a vulnerable state.

Go slow Octobergirl, protect yourself, but go slow. Divorce is forever.

Binder,

Don't worry,I am.It will take me a while to fill out and collate all the necessary paperwork and then I will see how I feel.Divorce is forever but so is this pain/sickness if I continue to let it invade my soul.Just how long is enough is to each his/her own.

Sorry for the threadjack Mike! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

O

DJ
DJ, you asked a very good question. Can you save your M alone? The resounding answer is YES. You can and will if that is your resolve. The only time your M is truly ended is when you W marries someone else. That has not happened yet. This forum is dedicated to saving marriages of all stages. I will tell you that marriage recovery is a very hard road and obviously most give up too soon. There is a story from Boppo57 and you must read about his M recovery. It sounds alot like your situation. I can tell you if you give up in such a short time, you will never know if you could have saved the M.

In almost all cases, there is a 6 month period of time that takes place when the affair is discovered to when all contact is broken. Just because your W wants a D, you don't have to give it. There are countless stories of marriages being saved even up to the time of the divorce papers being signed. There are even stories of couple divorcing and remarrying. Why does it happen? Because one of the marriage partners did not give up. I have read these types of stories on this board.

I strongly encourage you to try the principals given here on this site. Keep coming here and posting and get valuable info from the great people here. Do not listen to those who have given up. I read Octobergirl's response who has a dday of 10/03. She has given up because of false recoveries. I don't know her story, but I suggest that it is way to soon to give up. She said she has waited a long time for her H to come around. 6 months is not a long time. The average recovery is 2 years. I would encourage her not to give up, but I understand her frustration.

Also, get the book Surviving An Affair by Harley. It will give you tremendous insight into what has become the greatest disapointment of your life. Your dreams are shattered. But the good news is that affairs almost always end and that a M can not only survive, but thrive after an A. It is really up to you and your resolve to save your M.

Please consider committing at least 6 months of trying to save the M. If you do, you won't regret it. You will be doing the right thing for you and your family. You will be doing the right thing for your W. If you love her, you must try. I guarrantee you will learn more about yourself over that time than any other time in your life.

If you fight for your W, she may begin to see you in a different light. There is a good chance as she gets to know the OM by living day to day with him, she will begin to see his flaws and reconsider what she has done. If you don't put up a fight now, you may never get her back. Keep in mind that the relationship between her and OM is based on lies and deceit. It will never work. Don't be surprised to find that this has been going on for at least 6 months to a year.

Get the book and start reading and posting here to get help with your progress. Only you can do this and you will have to do it without any help from your W. Your M can be saved, but it is up to you.

Christ's Love,
Roman121

Thanks guys. I started the day ready for the aliens controlling WW's mind to take her body as well to whatever planet they're from but waffleing on that now. I have SAA ordered should have it in hand by next week. Our DV-D is scheduled for 08/02/04. She is still seeing OM, I'm sure thats where she is right now. Our 17th anniversary is 07/15/04 and WW and OM are going on a cruise 07/17/04. Can't take much more gut kicking. Sometimes I want to go to Plan B for a couple of hundred years.

Hang in there DJ. My wife is off to Ireland this summer with Mr. Imadoctorwithanairplaneandyourenot. We are in similar situations.

I occasionally see cracks in the ice woman, but they are rare.

Roman121 has some good advice, I found it motivating, thanks Roman.

Be cool, think, have patience. These things usually burn themselves out....or so I hear.

Thanks Binder and thank you R121 if I haven't already. I have seen no cracks in the ice of my WW. Looks like we are in pretty similar situations Binder. Your WW is with an MD? Thats pretty tough competition. I had a session with my shrink today. Last time I took him a bunch of stuf I printed out from MB. He told me he looked it over and that it is good solid advice. Also said that he didn't realize last time that it was Dr. Harley's place and that he has HNHN. Says its good stuff. Makes me think I have the right shrink and I'm in the right place on the web. My copy of SAA arrived today, time to get started.