I looked on my wifes phone last night and saw she had sent him a picture message. It was a picture of her face. She had also received a phone call from him a week ago. I didn't say anything. Maybe I'm weak or I just wanted to believe as wife's sister has said that OM is just very persistent and wanted to get wife back. Anyway I plan to ask her tonight what is going on between her and OM. She has a new phone where the picture message was. I saw she received the phone call on her old phone which she still has. When asked she will probably say nothing is going on. I guess I will then say I saw she received the phone call last week. But I don't want her to know about me seeing the picture message because she may believe I don't know how to use her new phone. If she knows she may cover her tracks better. Any advice appreciated.

Logging off. Will check back in about an hour!

Hmmm. I would not say anything, because you are right, she will just cover her tracks and then you will be in the dark. Are you doing a good Plan A?

Thanks for the reply. I do believe I am doing a good plan A. I read over the emotional needs again. I know a big one for my wife is conversation. I have been trying to talk to her as a friend. I try to get her to talk about how she is doing. How her day went and anything else she might find interesting. I also think domestic support is one she wants filled because she is a clean freak but never has time to do much. She used to always ask me to help with cleaning. So I have been doing more. With the phone though I feel I have to ask about at least her old phone because she knows I check that. I also believe I have to let her know how I feel about maintaining contact with OM. If not I feel I am enabling her to continue contact.

Any other comments???

Conversation is high on my list of EN's. I'll be willing to bet she wants more conversation than just talking about her day...throw some off the wall questions at her...

some ideas?

What was your first childhood memory?
When do you remember being the poorest?
If you had a million dollars, what would you do?
etc...

There's a great book out there...the book of questions (really, actual title) give it a try...

hi staggered,

what happened? did you talk to her???

awed

Hi Awed- sorry I missed you but I was at an amusement park all day yesterday with W and girls. Anyway, I did not talk with my wife. I had every intention to, but after I put our girls to bed my wife was asleep on the sofa. I just let her sleep. I knew she was tired. Yesterday was not a good day for it we were all having fun on rides and being out. When we got home we were all so tired the girls went right to bed and I fell asleep on the sofa. But I wasn't in the mood to open up this can of worms anyway. However, I do feel I need to this weekend and we are both off so I should have the opportunity. I just have to get my nerve up and do it. Stillheremakingit-thanks for the questions they are great. I will use them and have actually made me think of more.

hi staggered...

as just mentioned on your other thread, keep up the good work!

this too represents terrific insight on your part:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Anyway, I did not talk with my wife. I had every intention to, but after I put our girls to bed my wife was asleep on the sofa. I just let her sleep. I knew she was tired. Yesterday was not a good day for it we were all having fun on rides and being out. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">being honest has nothing to do with timing...in other words, you don't need to tell her RIGHT NOW (or at least, not necessarily...depends on how imminent an action is!)...

but for the kind of discussion you are planning on having with her or for any discussion of difficult issues in future, I'd suggest that you play it by ear...if she's tired, she won't be receptive...you'll be wasting both time and effort, and possibly good will...and if you are enjoying your (precious) time together as a family, why spoil it?

a quiet time with the two of you is best...when the mood feels right (harmonious, or at least neutral)...

if you want to engage in a discussion, I'd suggest asking first: "I'd like to discuss _____, is now a good time to do so?" whereas if you simply want to share your feelings, then go right ahead and do so...but remember not get upset if she wants to change the subject or has no specific comment at that time...

change happens slowly, not overnight...

getting down to the nitty gritty of your situation, lots of people advise snooping but as a proponent of honesty I have to tell you that it is tough to do...the activities you engage in prior to d-day (ie. during an active A) and during recovery should be different...

philosophically, let me pose some questions to you to explain what I mean: if you expect your S to be honest with YOU, then why would it be okay for you to be dishonest with her? is it "justified" in some way because of her past actions? does that mean that under certain circumstances, it would be okay for her to be dishonest with you? or is she expected to live under a different set of rules for the rest of your M because she was the WS?

mutual accountability is not the same as snooping...accountability is NOT punishment...it is a hallmark of a good M, a healthy M...both partners should know what the other is doing...there shouldn't be any secrets...

has your W agreed to these concepts? have you discussed ideas about what makes a healthy M?

if you are engaging in mutual accountability, then you can raise the issue of checking in a respectful way..."honey, do you mind if I check your phone out?"

it is important to keep in mind that you cannot shame, force or demand that someone commit back into a M...you can coerce them through guilt but it doesn't last and/or leads to an unhappy M in the end...

your W needs to commit freely to your M...honest, respectful interactions are far likelier to convince her that this is a relationship she chooses to be in...

well...likely others have a much different opinion...snoop or not to snoop...that is indeed the question...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I also believe I have to let her know how I feel about maintaining contact with OM. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">on this one, I agree fully...once you can figure out how you are going to let her know that you know without telling her you did it through snooping ( <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> ), then yes...you should definitely tell her how you feel...

that does not mean you threaten her (ie. "if you keep this up, we'll end up divorced!"), make demands (ie. "you have one week to prove to me he's gone forever!") or be judgemental (ie. "I just KNEW you were going to contact him again!").

did you do the honesty assignment yet? and are you familiar with all the concepts around conducting a "safe" discussion?

you tell her what you know and how it makes you feel...you tell her without anger...if possible, you talk about solutions...how you are going to work together...

renewed contact in recovery is normal...how you handle it is crucial...then the rest is up to her...

hope this helps...awed

P.S. you may want to pose questions on the recovery board...recovery is far less black and white than some realize, and the answers you receive will likely reflect this grayness...

Staggered:

I read a book for a training class (at work) recently, entitled "The Great Connection" by Arnie Warren. In it is a story about a radio DJ that learns from a man that is dying how to "read people." The main thing I wanted to pass on though, was how this one person had trouble talking to other people. It was described to him that instead of asking questions that could be answered with one word (i.e. "how was your day?" ok) to something more descriptive (i.e. "Tell me about your day.") Now that doesn't mean you will get more of a reply, just that the likelihood that you will will increase. Next you have to listen for "signposts" of the conversation and dig deeper into what was said. Plus, if it is long winded, then you need to you "prods" (acknowledgements of what was said, could be as simple as just nodding your head or making small grunts:). Hope that helps you to communicate better (it has helped me more with my kids than with the W) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />