KB ,,, you didn't toss nothing on me hon!

I was useing the hole thing as an example ,,, and please .... this is not all about "MY"situation ,,its an IN GENERAL about how I feel about the hole "A" thing and the process and well the envirment of it ...

Also the hole veiw of the work needed and the selfishness of a WS not willing to conform to what they did.

I think ,, when I read about really GOOD progressive recoverys its the WS that GOT IT ,,, YA no what I mean .???

AND I only read some responses fast ,,, the plan a thing well some times it hard ,,, some do feel like a door mat ... I know thats not what it is ,,,about at all ... BUT sometimes no matter how you sugur coat it ,,,, when your being kind and meting needs of someone who is "barely there" it makes your selfesteem LOWER THEN LOW !


YOU do end up sucking crap up ,, walking away when ya want to explode and basicly talk and relate to a frigin alein ...

YES much like being beaten up with a bat !

NO my H hasen"t kissed A$$ since well when he begged to come home ,,,hes just been ,,, the I won't ever again ,, I am sorry ,, here check on me ,,, NO I do not think OF OW ever except when you bring her up .

And POJA yes once in a blue moon ..

i hate my key board it is always sticking! Sorry for all the typo's! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

plus my nails are too long need to cute them

Ali

I started to write a response...

Then I realized that this was just a vent...no one really wants to hear what I have to say anyway.

Good evening

Low

OH LO

Go on.....we want to hear it. I think this is a good venting thread. There is nothing vulgar or terrible about this thread at all. Say what you feel. I am finding this all very interesting. I totally agree with 3, this is bull carp. But what can you do, you can't help who you love. Gosh I wish I could just not love him, it would make my life so easy.

I see reality in everything that has been said so far. One of my friends said to me today "What is wrong with him?" I said an alien abducted him and sucked his brains out and dropped his body back off. Mostly because that is really what it feels like. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> .

HINY <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> But what can you do, you can't help who you love. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do you realize what you just wrote? This is a WS's favorite line...

Low

That is funny, no I didn't realize that. I guess BS are WS in a sense when we are so in love that we are willing to do anything for them. I tried to explain this to furnitureman the other day. That Plan B is hard not having contact with WS, just as NC with OP is hard. They are in the sense the same withdrawals. So by saying I can't help that I fell in love with him and that I love him, and we are married and I want to be with him and only him, makes me a nut case too! But then anyone that knows HINY knows that I am a nutcase. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> .

Aren't we allowed to use WS lines too? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

HINY

Ok,

I am fully aware that repsonding to this is going going to be like stepping into a tank of pirhanas but here goes...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> And please lets not go with the do ya want to be RIGHT OR M THING .... BS are already right (JMHO) nothing left to peove there . </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Righteous indignation is a wonderful tool for drawing your WS back into your marriage...NOT!
Sure you were right about not straying, but are you so sure you're right about everything else?
It's this idea that the wayward spouse must give up any and ALL claims to ever being right about ANYTHING ever again that turns my crank.
For the longest time, I didn't think I had any right to express my displeasure with anything my wife did because of this...but that just plain WRONG.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I don't want my FWS thinking of OP ,, IS that wrong ??? NO .
IF the image pops up during SF then yes I belive that its them they where "PINEING FOR"

another thing I don't belive I should PROVE a SAFE PLACE for FWS either ,, for what ? to be an adult and tell the TRUETH like HHHHHHHHMMMMMMM </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No it's not wrong to want your FWS thinking of only you and to NEVER, EVER think of the OP again.
To expect that to be real? GET REAL. Certain things will always remind me of the OW. She WAS a big part of my life for while. So, without physically excising the nerve cells containing those memories, I don't think I can blank her out.
I have to deal with this and so does my wife if we want to stay married. Do you want to stay married?
We certainly do.

As far as telling the truth...yeah, I believe in it. If North Korea wants to drop an A-Bomb on my house and they "tell me the truth" that their going to, is that supposed to make me love and respect them more? I might appreciate the warning, but I'll hate their guts to the last moment.

HOW you choose to wield the truth can be every bit as important as the truth itself.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> NO I do not think of XBF, or past sex with any one else at all EVER and I am being honest . </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You just did when you wrote this. The only way you could've NOT done it was if there WERE no xbf's or past sex. But you remember that it happened. I know you do. It's about the same for me when I think about the affair...it happened.

So, for all that other stuff...

It doesn't sound like you really want to do the work of putting this relationship back together, 3. You don't think you should have to, because HE WAS SO WRONG. Your righteousness and your pride shine through in your words.

No one's perfect but Jesus. He is the bridegroom, we are the bride. Think about where we would ALL be if he had shown your attitude. I'm not trying to point out that you think you're perfect...quite the opposite. You are so afraid that there is nothing in you to love that you have brandish your righteousness like a banner so no one will see how you really feel about yourself.

You might try to argue that you're not God and just a fallible human. That's an excuse. All Christians (I can't remember if you are, but seem to remember that you may have mentioned it) are called to be like Him and to strive toward his example. It's pride and self-righteousness that prevent us from doing it.

It takes a strong person to show humility, 3. Doing the work of restoring a marriage takes lots of it on the part of the BS. You are slinging mud all over those who've worked so hard to learn this by saying that they allowed themselves to be used to recover their marriage.

But you know what? BECAUSE they have learned this, they won't be angry with you. They will extend you grace. They will show you mercy and forgiveness.

Understand that HUMILITY comes from strength of character and not weakness.

I think you have to resolve your own fear of rejection before you can do the serious work of rebuilding.

All of that said...

I still love you, 3

Low

Low said:
You are so afraid that there is nothing in you to love that you have brandish your righteousness like a banner so no one will see how you really feel about yourself.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> OMG...you just totally described me when I LB!! I never realized it until now. I am shaking with this revelation. Thanks Low (I think...LOL)

Its ok OCT. LOL

It was just so funny to see it in print LOL

Any who ,,, FOR the record this is not a "vent" I mean it is but it is in general ,,, I talk to some of my close freinds that went through the inational rollercoaster with me ,,, you klnow the ones who dive ya home drunk and stop ya from hammering in the walls with folding chairs during the nervous breack down stage!While your kids are out with FUNNY DADDY .

ANYWAY ,,, they still say HOW in the world ???

I try to explain the fog thing and the withdrawal crap (that my H says he did not have BULL$^&*)

But they all say the same thing and even have visited this site to read up on it ,,, still they come back with ,,, the BS does way to much for some one who was wronged and had NO say so in what the WS did/does ..

I do agree with that ,, MY H knows I agree with that as well ..

But that to gets twisted with WS that JUST DON"T GET IT >>>> they still see the excuse ,,, well IF YOU didn't do/act/ ect... I wouldn't have cheated .

THe situation PRE -A can have all the problems in the world ,,, IF your not happy file/talk/ scream rct... I have said, that before and belive in it all the way ...

The other thing is changing ,,, well I am not totaly against that but ,,, only if it really is needed and not something that makes you who you are ,,, GET that ? make sense ?

well I love the talk people ,,, that just me like to here all the veiws and I really am ok .

MY H is a weird one alright ,,, its tough , but I am learning to just be me ,,, say what I want ,, cry when I need to ,,, and YES fight like he11 when I know that I need to be heard and I won't back down anymore ..

NOw if he doesn't respond ,,, then well he can leave .

I love him more then anyone in my hole life ,, he is my world ,,, and I would never agasin love anyone again ,,, BUT I can love him from afar if I had to ,, I would rather hurt alone then to have him hurt me and me suck it up ,,not saying anything at all ,

Also I think amazing the thing about BS not being the ones to have the A ,,, when some of us where more neglected then the WS ...

I know I was ,,, everything was about him .. OUR lives revolved around what he wanted, everything.

and wow I am hoggy PC tonight H is having withdrawal needs to play backgammon and read his football news .. WHAT A BABY !LOL

well we just finish the POOL opening together ,,,

SEE we spend time and everything LOL also new owners for his company and now he has off JEWISH holidays witch is so <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> cause our kids go to catholic school so next week we have 2 days kid free ,,, .. HMMMMMMMM maybe I'll get lucky <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

OK also I am PMS this does provoke these threads from me I am a tad bit crazy at this time ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

thanks all keep it comin .

ALL I can respond to at this time is the comment about slinging mud at those who have worked so hard .

THAT is not true at all ,,, I think the BS and FWS that have worked togeher are the most strongest people I could ever have the honor to get to know .

THEY WILL EXTEND YOU GRACE .... What does that mean??? THEY WILL SHOW YOU MERCY ?

NO one has to show me anything ,, and if someone happens to feel the things I do then fine ,, but don't say they are doing it for any ohter reason .

HUMILITY comes from strength of character and not weakness.

OK ,,, I guess I am strong then ,,,

FEAR of rejection ? well I am not afraid of it at all ... I welcome the honesty from my H ,,, so that I can make my choices ..

I will respond more tommorrow .

And for anyone who may ever feel offened by my post ,,, well belive me I am not here to hurt anyone ... the exact oppisite , I help when I can ,and am honest and true to my beliefs .

I need to process the rest of what you wrote , other than to say we may not GET one anothers personalitys at all ....

THAT said ,,, you don't have to even like me .

Low Orbit, That was an incredible post! Tinman sent you a thank you, did you see it? You made some very good points that seem to be overlooked by many BSs in recovery.

I do have to jump to 3's defense however. She has been dealing with a husband who has made minimal and I mean MINIMAL effort towards recovery since DD. She has a very tough row to hoe, IMO.

Her husband has not expressed his love and sorrow in such a way that she can feel it, he seems to think his return home should be enough. A WS has the burden of conveying remorse and love so that the BS can heal. 3's H has not done this.

The BS must feel in their heart the power of the WS's emotions. A WS who is not holding up their end of recovery is an added burden for a BS who is expected to be the best they can be, watch their tone, meet spouses ENs ect. This is 3's frustration.

3 wants her H to hold her, to look in her eyes and tell her he loves HER. She doesn't FEEL that he truly wants to be home or that he loves only HER because he does not express this to her. It's been a somewhat one sided recovery effort.

She has been working her tail off for a long time. Only she knows if there is a self righteousnes in her heart that she needs to deal with. From my perspective she's made a valient effort despite the obstacle of her H's lack of cooperation. She loves him still!

I would love to see the thoughts you expressed reworded minus the references to 3 because there are so many BS's who could benefit from it. It would make a great thread. Nice job!

3.


Here I am babe.

You are so right.

I am in a spot. 4 years since this was all goin on with FWS.

He is in the spot where it was all like it used to be before A. I, However, am not there. It will never be like it used to be.

I told him that tonight. On his 56th BD. He is out of town with the band and never called me. WE are so broke that there is no more cell phone, so I called the bosses cell and said, it will never be the same.

Do they never get it. I need a little butt kissin after all this time and seeing as how I have been so nice I need a little more these days.

I hear ya, LOUD AND CLEAR. ventventvent. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> LOL. You are the best.

You have done so well, and you are great. Thank you for the thread. This is how a lot of BS's feel.

Can I say AAARRRGGG!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Love you,

And love in Christ,
Miss M

Ok 3, you vented. Feel better? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I certainly understand. Been there, doing that.

This is one of the phases of your recovery. Reaching a point where you learn to put your respect ahead of WS crap. No more doormat, right?

You are at a turning point. A place in your recovery where you now have the opportunity to move forward or stay stagnant.

Anger? Part of the recovery mode. Real angry/frustrated? Been there, done that. Want to know what's ahead? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

L.

I agree with so many of the posts here on this thread. I spent my entire marriage telling my H how wonderful he was and making him my entire universe and then because he becomes impotent and suffers from depresssion he starts using viagra to have an A with someone half his age just to make himself feel better. The biggest thing that came out of the A was that his depression deepened into suicidal feelings which I had to bear the brunt of. Try living with someone who tells you they constantly feel like they want to blow their brain out. But now that the A is over he is feeling fine and the depression has lifted whilst I am so deep in depression that many days I just feel like dying. . .ironic isn't it?

I would love something to make me feel better. While I am not LBing I am certainly not kissing butt either. I just find I caanot do it and the best I can do is tell him that I love him and basically the rest is up to him. I cannot fawn around him or tell him that he is Mr Wonderful. . .the words just stick in my throat. I reckon I lived my pre A days by the MB way and it didn't really work because he ended up having an A anyway and all because of his own low self esteem.

I spent years going without sex and really if anyone should have had an A it should have been me and yet it was the last thing I would ever contemplated doing. I love sex and the romance that goes with sex. Have anyone of you wondered how romantic sex is with someone who has to stop and take a tablet before he can perform. Though he managed to sneak tablets before being able to perform with the OW and she thought she was having this romantic affair with an older man LOL. She was totally unaware that he had to take viagra before performing and I sometimes would love her to know exactly what she was getting. He even has problems ejaculating and it takes ever so long and I am sure that while he was with her he seldom had satisfactory sex because "his pride" would not have allowed him to fail sexually so I would imagine he would get the act over as soon as possible. Funny things happen with viagra. . .its not always 100% successful so the quicker the act is over the better. I am disgressing but I reckon that all this love bank stuff should be coming my way rather than his way. Just my opinion and yes, I am definitely feeling sad and sorry for myself today so am venting from hell.

Enid

HEY there MM & ORCHID nice to here from ya !

YES Orchid ,, please do tell me whats next.

WELL LOW , I thought about how to address what you said, I am not one for the big "WORD " game I am a send out there person .

I am not narrow minded , and although I do see the point that ,yes during the stages of finding out about the A , or during a PLAN A or even PLAN B some (including myself)BS MAY be alittle "RIGHTEOUS "

WE may tend to get alittle narrow minded ,, then you may be lucky to find MB ,,and yes things start to clear for you , understanding comes in to a degree.

NOW lets FAST FOWARD ... HUMLITY does go a long way ,, I learned from here and through my H A how to start being ME again .

DO I WANT TO BE M ? YES , am I willing to do any work nessecery to make the M a wonderful one and work HAND IN HAND with my FWS to do so ,,? YES

BUT am I at this stage after learning so much about the women I am willing to sacrifies beliefs for some one to disrespect me in any way ,shape or form NO WAY NOT AT ALL !

MY point here is the recovery ,,, after all the N/C, revealing the "WHY" the WS did what they did .Them coming to understand that there A almost coast them there M .

What I am saying is IF ,,, the WS really "GOT IT"

(2OAK comes to mind ) then the ride in recovery isn't so horriable ..YES does the BS still live with the demens that come into our dreams at night YES (for me they always will)

Does the WS have rights ,, of course they do ,,, do they have the right to demand trust NO , why? cause they need to earn it they damaged it.. THATS not being RIGHTEOUS its me being HUMAN .

DO they have the right to live life like they didn't HURT someone and move on and forget that they did it NO . WHY ? cause they disrespected someone and now they need to live with conseqences .

I am not saying be PUNISHED for it ,, but they should live with it as I will live with the scare on my heart forever .

DO I forgive him ? yes I did that long ago . DO I forget it ? NO . AM I saying use it as a tool against him .NO

BUT if the WS has to ask why are you like this ? THEN he11 they don't get it , and yes the A will be rehashed again .

There is a time to move on from they A , BUT JMVHO (and I am not saying all but most) the BS can do this when the WS has showed there remorse and a new found love and respect for all the BS has done to fight for there M ..

CAUSE lets not forget in the MAJORITY of the BS ,, they are the ones DOING all the work to show the WS the love and hard work it takes .. Again they suck up alot of crap to get to the recovery stage .. and they are DOING most of the work to educate them on the hole FOG thing and withdrawal and also lets not forget sucking up alot of mean and nasty FOG TALK , and the OP is so wonderful PUKE !

AND for the record I am in NO WAY saying that I do not have to do any work for the M because HE WAS SO WRONG ..

I am saying HE was WRONG and I know that and so does HE ,,,, I have done work on ME things that he feels and even myself that I had issues with ,,,NOW I am saying ,,, THERES not much left to do sometimes UNTIL a WS/FWS "gets IT"

IN some cases there are WS out there that in away are still useing the fact that now that the BS has made head way in change ,, they won't cheat again ,,, cause there NEEDS or whatever are being met and now home life is better for them so now they think OK now thats over ,, so we can all live normal .

MEAN while that would be making an excuse for the A ,,, when in reality there IS NO EXCUSE FOR THE A ! EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ALSO saying that ,
"You are so afraid that there is nothing in you to love that you have brandish your righteousness like a banner so no one will see how you really feel about yourself "

THAT made me laugh really . NOW I am not saying that I am not with out fear ,I am saying anyone here who has read anything I've posted about myself (MISS M , TO4T, ARK, STILL,ect.)
KNOWS I have been down that raod already ,,, LOW VERY LOW selfesteem .....

I have come a very long way and the exact oppisite is true ,,, I have found that I AM VERY WORTHY VERY ! and I have alot in me to LOVE !

MOST of all I have learned that I am not with fault for my H 's A ... I have looked back and know I had NOTHING to do with it . IS that righteous to you ,,, OK then call it that if you want . I just call it knowing that I am not going to hold guilt for something I didn't do at all ..

MOST of the above is in general ,,, this part of the post was more personal . Addressing the PERSONAL way is was VEIWED on ME .

KB- thank you for you kind words , most where right on ...

OH aand one more thing I AM REAL ! If the OP pops into a WS head for any reason , the only thought they shpould think is HOW COULD I HAVE BEEN SUCH AN A$$ !

And if any WS POPs the thought during SEX or a romantic time with there S ,,, then they are PINING >>>> SORRY JMO !

IF they got it and where over them and really knew what the hole thing was they wouldn't think of them while in a situation with there S.

3 is a crowd, (applause) First, thanks for finishing your thought on this thread.

Next, Nice job! I only wish I had the balls to say some of the things that I am feeling at many points in this process. It takes courage to come on a forum like this one and express views that you know going in are not going to be popular. So I commend you for not just being one of the pack and voicing opinions that are thought by many but expressed by few. (hope you bought some flame retardant clothing)

IN my case, after coming to MB'ers and reading SAA, HN/HerN, Torn asunder.....I explained to my wife that at least for right now my #1 EN is Openness and Honesty. She turns around and says could I please pick another as that is too difficult for her to meet. WHHHAAAAAATTTT??????

Then she tells me last night that I spend too much of my free time On this website. She thinks that I have replaced "obsessing" about her A and replaced it with being addicted to MB'ers. Well, even if I am isn't this a least a positive addiction.
I for one am thankful to Stop obsessing about her A (it got very heavy to carry around 24/7.......for say about a year!)

Now What has she replaced her "addiction" to the OM and her A with? Alcohol! Yea, my wife who used to drink 2-3 times a year (socially), is now consuming about a 5th of vodka a week. EVERY week! So its a problem that I'm addicted to coming to a pro marriage website, but she can just replace one destructive habit for another. Its unreal.

Then there is her UNWILLINGNESS to talk to me. Even now that our discussions DO NOT revolve around her A, she still has very (& I mean very) little to say,.........Ever. Doesn't matter if its early, late, day,night, rain, sun, hot, cold, alone, on phone.........she just won't communicate. I'm sure many have experienced the massive frustration that comes with dealing with a brick wall.

She is guilty. OK I get that. However, I am Hurt,(as well as devistated, betrayed, angry, ect.,) and I'm dealing with it. So Get your head into the game already.

To sum it up........I agree and also am getting fed up with having to carry more then my share of this "recovery". I understand that I must do my part, & I like to think I am. But just like before, I can't do her part. Truly, She reads the books but changes very little.

Our relationship tends to go very well as long as I am meeting her needs and just pretending I do not have any. Or at the very least, if I just let my wife decide which ones SHE Wants to meet (usually not the ones I want met)(Or how).
Sorry, but now that I have learned more about relationships, that just isn't good enough any more. It was (and would have been forever) if she hadn't had an A on me. But she did. As a result, her efforts must improve, ...dramatically.

I've learned, why hasn't she? I do not have the abiltiy to "make her get it". In fact, she resents me when I try. (YOU Know, Disrespectful judgements and all.......funny how she uses the MBers principles when it suits her).

Unfortunately, my W seems to be very content that things have just basically gotten better then they were this past year. She seems to just want to let things lie now, and not continue on with the HARD work of fixing the things that lead to the conditions for her A to begin. Indeed, I can see her and us slipping back into the "old" patterns that existed Before the A. Things Such as us NOT communicating.

That may work for her. However, catching her in an A, has been a huge wake up call for me. After reading and learning about my own mistakes, I DO NOT want to go back to the "way we were". I either want to make a better M, or I want out. This has all been waaaaaaayy Too painful for me to accept Anything less. Unlike some out there I do not plan on waiting indefinitely for her to get on board. (No stones, just my choice) My own personal "D" day is slowly building. I pray she gets her act together before it gets here. later

TOP ROPE- thanks for responding ,I do pray that your W GETS IT ..

I know how it is to work so hard , make changes . look deep inside yourself and solo search , also have a positive outlook and really belive it will work . THEN get the untimate slap and not have someone respond back to you .


The good part of it is discovering how strong you are , knowing that you are strong enough to admit your faults and work on yourself , and that you can clearly see that YOUR the better person for yourself .

If that WS doesn't jump in WITH BOTH FEET, HANDS,BODY then ,, to ME walking away will be alittle easier knowing that you feel you did EVERYTHING possiable to show you want the M and the M with that PERSON >

JMVHO - I have always felt that I would never give up till I have exshauted all of me , at the same time making myself a better person for it .

I have to admit I have more communication in my M now then PRE-A ,,, BUT its still one sided ,,, I am the one to start (ok no problem) BUT it became a problem when I can only talk about what my needs, the M , the A , or anything sensitive unless hes in that MOOD !

I don't think in M that I should sit around waiting or thinking my angel to death about HOW or when I should bring something up .

He11 I am a person , and I got needs and I want to share and if your the S you should want the same and respect that ..

All I am saying is , it should be as it was when you first meet ,,, the sahring , expressing ect..
and it shouldn't be so dam hard if ya love eachother.

I mean the A get thrown in the WS isn't nice I am sure ,,, but if they bothered to understand the triggers they send then they would know YOU have a hard to holding in the LB'S .

EXAMPLE : If the A took place during work hours (my H did they where in the same area) I got a problem with ya telling me your to busy to call or ya can't leave early ...

NOPE it don't cut it ,,, not after I find out that for 3yrs you where building a freindship and the relationship with OW and always called her 5 to 6 times a day and lunch everyday and left early 4 times a week to to hide the A from me .

ALSO that you put your job on the line in risk for all this time with her .

I am not saying that he needs to do all that for me cause I am not a selfish needy $LUT who is manipulating his ever move ,,,, I just wnat the call to say HI , I love ya ,, whats doing , hows your day .....
I want him to leave early if we can get away to do something ,,,, not to leave early because I want to punish him and say HA you did it then doi it now ...

BUT if he refuses to do any of the above ,, of corse the A gets brought up .

GOOD luck to you ,,, and any BS will no when its time to through in the towel ,,, I belive in that with all my heart ,,,

I don’t have the answer as to who suffers more in an affair: the BS, the WS, the OP. . . I’m sure it is different for each situation.

Some WS started the affair after years of neglect and abuse by the BS. Some intended it to be an exit affair . Some were amazed that their BS would fight to get them back . . . when they ignored their partners for years: why the sudden interest? Is in just that they are afraid of losing their property (spouse)?

I was the WS, so my experiences guide my thinking on this issue. What is more damaging, years of emotional and physical rejection . . . using sex as a reward/punishment system . . . barely taking the time to acknowledge your partners existence . . . leaving your partner to take care of the kids while you shop, exercise, visit friends . . . or having an short lived affair? I don’t know the answer. I can tell you that the above situation sucked for me, and the affair sucked for my wife.

The WS knows the affair was wrong, even when they were doing it. For me, I think I tried everything else to get my wife’s attention, short of filing for divorce. The affair forced her to pay attention. She realized that I was almost out the door. She had to make the decision to let me leave or to pull me back. I know I should have just left, gotten divorced, then moved on. I didn’t, however, wish to be divorced. I wanted my wife to pay attention and to see how close we were to splitting assets and splitting the kids every other week. In the end, while it did work . . . my wife is doing things for the marriage that she would have never done prior to the affair; the affair caused too much damage. We both hurt and it will always be a huge issue between us. Now, what do we have . . . almost three years later? I have shame and guilt and she has the Nuke . . . any time she wishes, she can win any confrontation . . . “Well at least I wasn’t f@#king that wh@re . . .”

3, I know you are in pain. You didn’t ask for this. I guess when it becomes too painful we will all find a quieter place to be. . . even if it involves lawyers and a judge. Again, I wish I would have handled the situation differently . . . especially now that I have read so many BS stories; after I have felt the pain in their words. I think “Killmenow”, or something like that, was the worst for me to read. I hope my wife never felt that emotionally insignificant from something that was my fault.

3 - thanks for speaking for me. I just knew you'd say something I've thought before. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I don't have much of a response because frankly I'm just mentally so d@mn exhausted from all of my feelings that it's much too hard to concentrate on a response. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

My H is working on himself which I suppose will, in turn, help our M...I've now started IC and after one session I'm a mess. My IC questioned why we weren't in MC...good question...perhaps my H will have that answer. I think he thinks if he works on himself all will be okay...after all, 'this is his fault' (he says) so if he fixes himself we'll be okay. Of course, I agree...after all I can just pick up my world again, right? Just like he would if he had images of another man touching me, loving me, doing to me what they did to each other...right? Just like he would if I said about him the things he said about me...right? Until then I'll just keep encouraging him to go to IC and pretend like nothing else is wrong...bring up the A or the feelings I have as a result of it is telling him I want to argue (his point of view). What I think or feel about it is either wrong or might just hurt his ego. My thoughts and feeling mean aren't important because "It's not about you. It's about me. Stop trying to make this about you." Oh, okay. I'm just the innocent bystander who got shot in the head...what's my problem that I'm struggling with this?

Now, with that I'm off to walk the treadmill...and this walk is for YOU...dedicated to 3 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

CN- thanks for sharing that, I do not want to come across as if I am beating up a WS I am not .
Also I am open minded to here the situation is different for everyone but yet the same things happen PPEOPLE get hurt . LIfe I know .

I am not saying you should have this massive guilt although I know a treuely remorseful WS will have that . And I know about the NUKE ! I've held it in my hands rub it shined it up and yes have lunched it a thousand times .....

It hurts and belive it or not it hurts the BS to lunch it as well .

I am sure after 3 yrs you both have more then guilt and a nuke at home .

YOu said, she has paid more attention now and changed I am assuming some of the focuse in her life to YOU her partner .

It is terriable that the A has to be the Awaking of attention .. It woke me up although I wasn't truely sleeping ,,, my H was ... He truely turned from me cause I was fat and greiving the lose of 2 parents he couldn't be there for me ...

AND I needed to greive ,, so I did I put myself above him for the first time in our relationship ever ! and he bailed ,,,

BUT ok thats that now is where its at thats all I am saying .. IF BOTH partys paly togeher it goes faster and all the pain is shared .

I expect the same as I give ,, am I wrong ? I don't know I do not think so .
When H went through what ever I held him and cryed with him ,,, I listened to the "I Am sorrys" that came out of him and held him ...

So now if I want to cry and say I am in so much pain ,, I expect to be held through it ...

If I through the NUKE I expect him to jump on top of me and save me from the after shock ...

MAke sense .

LB- Thanks for the walk ,,, and OFF topic I have lost 9lbs now !!! WEEEEEEEEEE for me !!!

Also you hang in there , I can see the point if he fixs him things will get closer to fixing the M ... I think thats very wise thinking of him .
Think about it ,,, the A was something he did . Ket him take that responiblity .

YOUR IC well from others I know I here it is MIND spinning in the beging stick it out and if after both of you are comfortable with the progress then go to MC togeher .

I know ya hate hereing it ,, but what your feeling is normal ,,, you are tired and there comes a point where it starts to depress the BS .

ITS alot of work out of you to get to this point ,,so that I am tired attitude kicks in ..
I do not agree with holding back though.

If you cover your feelings them he can't know them and if there repeat things then ask him to sit through it anyway it helps to get it out . JMVHO