Originally posted by 3isacrowd:
I just feel that BS suck up way way way to much crap!

I say... that depends...

We (all of us, any status in the A triangle) suck up as much crap as we think we deserve.

Often, the sicker, more needy BS suck up everyone else's crap as well... because they think they deserve that too. Or, the sickest BS thinks it will make him/her popular/attractive with their WS..... "Look how much of your crap I suck up. See how much I prove I love you by all the abuse I will take."

A wholely distasteful discussion (sucking crap) but it does depict the essence of the situation some times.

I can say, I have learned to suck the crap back up that ~I~ placed into the relationship.... and not anyone elses.... and that is part of recovery. Recognizing one's own personal crap.


YA cheated , had fun, escaped from life, forgot ya had a family , ran up the bills , had great sex, and then ya got the comfort to come home and in most all here SUPPORT from that ,,,OH YES HORRIABLE BS ya convinced yourself you had ..

Yup, can't argue with this.


ALSO on other things that I read ,,, the constant thing about a BS not looking deep enough into the why they are angry or HOW they should APPROACH a topic of pain ,,,

HOW ,, any way they feel thats how . IF they want to cry and breck down why shouldn't they ?

They should.

WHY should they worry that they didn't express it THE WAY A FWS WILL feel "safe""

BULL*&%$!

I personally think it is more destructive in a marriage to AVOID honest negative emotions.


I mean $hit if the WS /FWS is truely sorry , and the BS knows they want it then ,, PUT the GLASS slipper back on and treat that W like the queen she is or the H like the prince he is and enough with all the ,,, I think of OP once in a while .

But... the BS ~asked~ this particular question....

Therein lies the dilemma. Integrity recovery is a major part of the WS recovery. And if asked a direct question.... the WS cannot lie if they wish to recovery their integrity.


This in my opoin is another reason why BS have low selfesteem for so long ,,,, cause alot of this is a KISS A$$ method ..

I never thought my self esteem depended on my spouse...

And no one else should.

Self esteem is based on your own good character and your own good deeds.

Try to carry your self esteem as your own responsibility... it is in much better hands that way! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

All in all... a most excellent rant. I am glad you returned to post it.

Thanks

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

<small>[ May 20, 2004, 10:03 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Dear 3,

I don't know you very well. I have read some of your posts over time, but I usually post over on pregancy/child 'cause that is where my H's affair landed us.

I know you are angry. It is so clear through your messages. I am sorry that your H hurt you with his A and even worse, with his half-a** attempt at recovery.

My thought is that you let him back into the home and into the marriage too soon after Plan B. The Harleys say the absent (formerly wayward) spouse has to negotiate their way back into the marriage.

That said, there isn't much you can do about that now that he is back in your life.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 3isacrowd:
<strong>

BUT if he refuses to do any of the above ,, of corse the A gets brought up .

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have a suggestion, not a criticism. I assume that you are the one briging up the affair, right? Could you tell him what you need from him without bringing up the affair? Lay down that big weapon and see if you get better results. No matter how he refuses to meet a need, don't throw the affair at him. (I understand how much it hurts that he did something for her that he won't do for you.) But...what you are doing isn't working, so try it from a different angle. It is only a behavior, we can change behaviors without changing who we really are and (usually) without betraying our own principals. When you tell him that you would like him to call a couple of times during the day and he says he can't, don't say "Well you did it for that tramp, you can darn well do it for me." Just simply repeat that it is a strong need for you and ask him if calling isn't possible, is there another way he can think of to meet your need? Bring him into the problem-solving part of the discussion. Be open to having this need met in some other way. If you reach stalemate, then table the discussion until a later time, but don't drop the matter entirely. The more lovingly we treat our spouses, the more likely we are to get loving responses back. If you get to the point where you have given and given and given and he is not "getting it." Then you are ready again for Plan B and then Plan D.

When your H isn't meeting your needs it can be very hard to see, but they are hurting terribly, terribly, also. He invited his pain into his life and you certainly did not ask for this, but eventually it comes down to "Pain is pain and how can we fix yours and mine?" I have come to know that as horribly as my H hurt me with his affair, he hurt himself worse. He betrayed every honorable thing that he thought about himself and until I was able to mirror back to him, some of the honorable things I saw in him (like congratulating him for each tiny step in recovery and relating it to regaining his honor and integrity) he was unable to restore his own self-esteem. Sorry if that sounds too PollyAnna. I don't know if I would have been able to "hear" that message when I was in the middle of the storm.

Blessings,
MJ

<small>[ May 20, 2004, 10:10 AM: Message edited by: MaryJanes ]</small>

PEP I am glad you posted I enjoy reading your responses around here You are truely helpful .

I am not saying I always agree but thats not what this is all about it is sharing and looking for things that may help each other in their situation.

Also I agree about the selfesteem ,,, I had many issue with this that was my point ... I ALOUD my H to hold my self esteem for so long ...
What he said, did anything I projected as I was the failure ,,,

Through a very long hard headed over do self recovery I have learned what YOU just said.

I boost my selfesteem now ,,,YES he creeps in there as well and I vent about it ,,, but for the most part I am becomeing stronger every day .

I also relate to the way you put the SUCKING UP CRAP thing to .

YES there are parts of this rollercoaster that a BS(jmo) suck up crap to use it as a NUKE (CB thanks for the word LOL ) I belive this is early on when they do not have the knowledge they may get down the line about INFEDLITY ...
and yes it is desructive to the recovery .

Lets put it this way ,,, if we could forget the meter of whos pain is worse (thats hard LOL ) and say both are in pain so move to one another at the same time alll the time then you will always be joined as ONE .

3,

I know you aren’t out to make WS feel worse. You feel you are doing all the work in repairing the relationship and you want the BS to give the time and attention to the relationship as you are.

I’m just feeling a little blue today. I miss my simple life. I miss not feeling like a piece of sh@t all the time. I miss having my self respect. I grieve for the innocence of my marriage. It will survive but it is all mucked up.

Yea, my wife likes the Nuke. I think she likes to hold it . . . to always have it. It must give her some tremendous sense of power. Save launching it for when you really have no other choice. For the rest of the situations . . . put it down and slowly walk away.


You said “I am sure after 3 yrs you both have more then guilt and a nuke at home . “ We do. But it is sometimes hard to see through the fallout. I have two lovely kids and for that I am grateful.

It really is sad that my wife began to act like a wife only after I betrayed her. What sucks too is at the time I don’t think I wanted her too. Maybe I’m just a wussy. Maybe I was trying to get her to do the dirty work and file for divorce. I really wasn’t thinking very clearly back then.

I’m sorry your husband choose the time or your grieving to pursue an affair. As if you didn’t have other issues to deal with.

It is going to take both of you to build a new marriage. You really can’t do it alone. I hope he joins in before it is too late. I hope my wife and I join too.

Cheers,

CN

Originally posted by LowOrbit:
Righteous indignation is a wonderful tool for drawing your WS back into your marriage...NOT!

Righteous indignation is also a NORMAL response to an assault. Which D-day certainly is ... an assault.

Sooooo

This righteous indignation is most appropriate in the first 6 months or so after discovery...

If recovery begins immediately after D-day (as it did with us) there is going to be some righteous indignation available ... because of the timeline.

In later recovery .... long after NC has been well established, and WS is totally on board... that is the time the righteous indignation MUST be stopped.... or else it is a negative force in the recovery process...

So, Orbit, you are sort-of correct.

Righteous indignation is NOT attractive... but it is a raw emotional reflex to severe injury.... so too bad. It's human nature in response to an assault. It knows no right or wrong... it just is. And later, it is not only NOT useful, but destructive.


Sure you were right about not straying, but are you so sure you're right about everything else?
It's this idea that the wayward spouse must give up any and ALL claims to ever being right about ANYTHING ever again that turns my crank.
For the longest time, I didn't think I had any right to express my displeasure with anything my wife did because of this...but that just plain WRONG.

Again... think of the time line Orbit. You lost all credibility for awhile. Take it like a man. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />


HOW you choose to wield the truth can be every bit as important as the truth itself.

Can I quote this?

You are so afraid that there is nothing in you to love that you have brandish your righteousness like a banner so no one will see how you really feel about yourself.

For a moment Orbit, I thought you were talking about yourself here.

The A spreads identity crisis throughout the relationship. Not only does the WS feel lost to him/herself ... but the BS ALSO loses his/her identity for awhile too... be gentle. The sense of self wobbles after D-day for the BS too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />


Understand that HUMILITY comes from strength of character and not weakness.

Can I quote this too?

I love you too Orbit.

Pep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

MJ - I was responding when you posted . I agree my H did in a sense come back to soon( I had not had MB yet )

Also he/we where planing his return home while he was still "helping OW"

SEE we negtioated the HOME COMING and yes I agreed to it ,,, IT was my own doing ,,, I do take ful responsablity for that .
I agreed for him to come home he could leave OW anyway he choose as long as he did it .(big mistake ???)
well to make story short ,, contact stayed 1 week till OW wanted answers for being dumped "I don't love you " wasn't good enough for her .. SHE did not want him home period . HE in turn never never till this day told her he came back to me .

BUT during this time of contact 17 months I did support him ,, I helped him ,,, and yes he was in pain ,,, at one point I thought he was having a heart attack he looked horriable ,, sick , crying all the time ...

All he wanted was me to be there for him and I was ,, yes there where the LB... BUT suprisingly we became so close talked all the time ,, about everything .. THE thing that I was neive about was what was told to me here
THIS will take a toll on me down the line and it did big time . I neglected all of ME and my pain and was there for him so much that I finnally fell apart WHEN!

When humpty dumpty was back togther again ..

So now all the promises of dealing with MY PAIN when OW was completely gone ....WELL they haven't panned out to well ..

I don't want ya to think he does nothing ,,, he does MINAMAL ! And the phone thing was an example .
YES it happened and we POJA (ok kb)lol

NO I am no where near PLAN B .
I have don't know how to expain it ,,, theres n/c, theres all access to everything, accountablity , affection, 15 hrs.

but its still his world ,,, he gets depreste about work I have to hold life up for him ,, maney ain't right ,,, he can't handle it ,I have to be the strong one ..I can't explain it ...

I am not saying I live in he11 24/7 it is the most part quit and comfortable but it ain't ,,,

upbeat, sexy, wild, laughing fun either , thanks for the advice I continue to try all those things and working on being happy with myself .

Hey 3,

This thread is so hot that I think that we are all cross-posting.

I understand where you are. We are almost 4 years into recovery.

We live in an even stickier situation because there is a child. The Harleys recommend no contact with either the exOW nor the OC (other child). I now understand why they recommend it. However, we both felt that contact was better for the child and I wasn't smart enough at the time to know how painful it would still be for me for H and exOW to talk outside of my presence, even four years later. We used to visit 4x a year when we had the money, but we are broke now. We have phone contact and *maybe* once a year flight out to where OC lives is all we can swing.

We had an agreement that there would be no private calls between H and exOW. But that agreement never seems to stick. I have asked, but he hasn't yet agreed to, not taking her phone calls when I am out of the house. He works from home and she knows just where to reach him all day. She calls about OC but conversations drift to her job, his job, my health (not good), how our kids are doing, etc. It makes me nuts. It feels like an ongoing violation. He says what if there is an emergency? We have voicemail and caller ID. She could call, leave a message, he could check the message and if the little girl is very sick or hurt, he would have no argument from me if he called back.

What I was suggesting was to remain calm, negotiate to get your needs met without throwing the Nuke. I am good at the not going nuclear on him, but not so good at getting my needs met. However, I am able (thank God) to remain strong, gentle and also very clear that we need to find a solution to this problem or I will continue to be hurt and it will continue to diminish my feelings for him. We'll see what we can work out.

Best of luck,
MJ

There are so many different situations here its amazing and sad ...

I give ya the KUDOS for being so strong . It takes a toll ..

Thats why lately I was taking the time to finish the missing links ,,,, SELF RECOVERY ...

I needed to find me and my strength and weeknesses and put both to good use ...

I am doing better each day ,, I know my H is very needy and it takes alot out of me ,,, but I am not babying him any more ...

I support him ,,, but will not DO everything for him I will help but only in a parnership way ,,, if he don't join in I stop .

EX: he called already 3 times needs help with research for work ,,, you know its nice when your wife is home so she can act like your assitant and you shine at your job cause you are looking like you do 2 things a once and others are doing it alone ,,,, SO I help him out and he is having a bad time at work with the take over anyway ...


JUst some more DOING ,,, I really love being involved with him and he makes it that way BUT there never is the thank you at the end ...

OR the extra special night for me cause I helped him out ... weird ,,, he wants me to know he apprecates me without telling me ... as long as we don't fight and A is not mentioned he says we have a great M ...

Any way thanks fro the convo ,,, I do hope all works well with much happiness to come your way ..

OH PEP - thanks the response last given was very good ,,,