Hello all,

I really dont know where to begin. Let me first say that I have apologized to my W for my actions. I know she has forgiven me. My intentions are good I am working on my M. I have spent a lot of time talking to my S and telling her where I am comming from. Anything I had posted on here I believe I have already comunicated with her on my feelings.

I said I would give her a shot. Yes that is how I feel. I cant say that I am all that and a bag of chips, but will tell you I have a lot of worth. I feel prior to the A I did put much effort into my M. Yet I still see how much I failed.

I cant go back and change what I did, only change the person I am. Prior to the A I thought I did everything right. I would do anything she asked and would never tell her no. This is also were I failed. Had I spoken up and put my foot down once in a while things would have never had gotten were they are. SF was another huge issue in our M. I would constantly try (daily) she would say how much I discust her how she hates me touching her. Yet I failed again. I tried many time to communicate with her on this subject but never got a responce. We took a class about meeting each others needs, this only proved to be a hinderance versus helping us. I felt she was not willing to work on us until I had moved out, I gave up. Yes another place where I failed her. We have both struggle with communicating and this is why I am in the position I am in. Please dont think I am trying to justify my A, because that is by no means the reason I say this. I want others to know how I failed and how easy it was for me to justify it.

For me now the easy road would be to walk away. I am by no means in recovery. I'm however working on my M. I have told my W everything, answering any questions she may have and doing it with a smile. The reality is that if my W was the same person she was when I left I would have never come back. I know it is wrong and still I fail her. I should be the one by her side trying to help her resolve some of her issues rather than running out the door.

Please know that when I write these things down I am only trying to express my feelings, not trying to hurt anyone. I'm not trying to justify my A, but only hope at others will know where the WS is coming from to help them win them back.

Reality of it is that had my W given up on me, I would have been done. I was willing to give it all up. Many of you may not realize but I'm sure many of your WS feel the same way.

Thank God my W L's me enough to give me another chance.


ok let the 2x4 fly, I will try to keep up this time <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Hey RLL, glad to have you aboard. I doubt you will feel too many 2x4's with that very honest, straightforward post. I am glad you found your way back to your marriage. While its never an excuse for an affair, many a WS finds themselves vulnerable to an affair when their needs are ignored at home. It sounds like this happened to you.

Has your W read His Needs/Her Needs?

ML
Thanks for the reply. My W (havinghope?)has read the book. It was actually was the focus of our Sunday School lesson for several months. We both looked at what we read and only seen that our needs were not being bet. To me it felt like my W said if I meet her needs she will try to meet mine.

RLL,

When I read this I REALLY thought you were the BS!!!!! may be your W thinks your acting this way too.....? If she does it could definetly stall any recovery. Would for me.

Even if you feel you are the "v

RLL,

When I read this I REALLY thought you were the BS!!!!! may be your W thinks your acting this way too.....? If she does it could definetly stall any recovery. Would for me.

Even if you feel you are the "victim" and that you are giveing W "another shot"......these statements would infurate me as BS. I would totally think YOU DON'T GET IT!!! as I read on it looks a little like you get it, sort of. But it wouldn't be enough for me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Was that a 2X4??? just being honest.

YOU SAID THE FOLLOWING:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I said I would give her a shot. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> only hope at others will know where the WS is coming from to help them win them back.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">These should be the statements of the betrayed party (your W), Not the betrayer.(You)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I was willing to give it all up. Many of you may not realize but I'm sure many of your WS feel the same way. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And don't you think that most of the BS KNOW THIS???? Sheeeeeez, I don't understand some WS's does this statement have any benefit? other than hurt? What is it for...?

And lastly 2X8!!!!!!!%2

RLL,

When I read this I REALLY thought you were the BS!!!!! may be your W thinks your acting this way too.....? If she does it could definetly stall any recovery. Would for me.

Even if you feel you are the "victim" and that you are giveing W "another shot"......these statements would infurate me as BS. I would totally think YOU DON'T GET IT!!! as I read on it looks a little like you get it, sort of. But it wouldn't be enough for me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Was that a 2X4??? just being honest.

YOU SAID THE FOLLOWING:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I said I would give her a shot. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> only hope at others will know where the WS is coming from to help them win them back.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">These should be the statements of the betrayed party (your W), Not the betrayer.(You)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I was willing to give it all up. Many of you may not realize but I'm sure many of your WS feel the same way. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And don't you think that most of the BS KNOW THIS???? Sheeeeeez, I don't understand some WS's does this statement have any benefit? other than hurt? What is it for...?

And lastly 2X8!!!!!!!!!!!

You should count your lucky stars your W does LOVE you enough!

Putting away 2X4

I do think your process of de-fogging is "lifting" but not yet gone.....W won't be ready to take a real CHANCE unti it's clear outside!!!(and she feels protected) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> and I for one do not blame her.

Blessings,
Atruheart

ATR

Thanks for you words, I do understand where you are coming from. As far as my W she knows where I am coming from. She read the post before I posted it and I asked her if she had any questions or thoughts she would like to express. She said it sounded good.

My words are not intended to hurt anyone, only a way to express what I am feeling. I can understand why me stateing "I would give her a shot" would make people mad. Not my intention only my thought process, that does not make it right. That is what I feel and I havent been able to change that yet.

RLL You wrote:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">ATR

Thanks for you words, I do understand where you are coming from. As far as my W she knows where I am coming from.


Then why are you asking us? If you and wife have worked this out, where is the problem?

She read the post before I posted it and I asked her if she had any questions or thoughts she would like to express. She said it sounded good.

I guarantee you it DID NOT SOUND GOOD!

My words are not intended to hurt anyone, only a way to express what I am feeling.

And as you EXPRESS your "feelings" which seem to be the MOST IMPORTANT ONES....... W and others you ask for opinions from should be allowed the same expression of "feelings"...sometimes "feelings are bull****!!

I can understand why me stateing "I would give her a shot" would make people mad.

I wasn't thinking about people.......I was thinking about your W!!!

Not my intention only my thought process, that does not make it right. That is what I feel and I havent been able to change that yet. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well then I must tell you again from a BS or a really recovering WS's pt. of view......YOUR thought process is WRONG! Intentional or NOT!! (that's just a huge cop out anyways!)and "feelings" "shmeelings!!"....when you quit worrying about what you "feel" and start thinking about what you say then may be you will be somewhere!

Trust me when I say....If your wife really loves you??? Those comments that you made here HURT HER!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Blessings,
Atruheart

ATR

You wrote;

Well then I must tell you again from a BS or a really recovering WS's pt. of view......YOUR thought process is WRONG! Intentional or NOT!! (that's just a huge cop out anyways!)and "feelings" "shmeelings!!"....when you quit worrying about what you "feel" and start thinking about what you say then may be you will be somewhere!


I respect your opinion but still question it. I know some of what I wrote may hurt my W. Are you saying I should not tell her how I feel? Should I just put on that happy face and tell her everything is ok? I feel that if I tell her my feelings it will help us to work through them. I think that if I dont express what I am feeling I would just be continuing to lie.

Respectfully
RLL

RLL,

Have you heard the saying "painfully honest?" Facts are Truth. Feelings are just "feelings"....does NOT make them fact!

If we were to all tell our S's EVERY thought we had and explained them as "feelings".......WHERE is the END?????

For example.......Last night I thought and felt "my H is really acting like a jerk!". Because I am being honest am I going to say "YOUR being a jerk?".....NO! WHY??? Because that would of course HURT him and not do either of us ANY good!!!!

Some things.....IN ALL HONESTY must be thought about..................READ YOUR W's own post here. Did you telling her "you were going to give HER another chance bother or hurt her"?? I really think you are not l-i-s-t-e-n-i-n-g to your W just worrying about being right and "honest" (just because you FEEL something does not make it the truth!) AGAIN....

O.K I feel like I'm getting put into an arguement here and that is not my GOAL! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I just know that with your "truth" you need to have a little compassion too. You are after-all the one who betrayed your wife.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Blessings,
Atruheart

P.S. In all HONESTY.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Your wife is the One giving you the one more chance!!!! not the other way around! No matter how you would like to view the M now......and explain away the A.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">P.S. In all HONESTY.... Your wife is the One giving you the one more chance!!!! not the other way around! No matter how you would like to view the M now......and explain away the A.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Just so you don't get me wrong!!!!! K???

This above statement was just for you to see that I am being HONEST.....it is based on my "feelings".... NOT ON FACT!!!

So.......did it serve a good purpose?? NO!
Did it try to serve one?? NO
Do you feel good because I was honest??NO!
Would it have been better to NOT tell my HONEST feelings??? YES!!!!!

O.K Im done trying to explain.
I wish we could go on and on....not really! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I do wish you a great day and hope that you can see that some things no matter how much you think they are being honest....if they are feelings that will hurt your W and serve NO good purpose are better leaft for your head.....

Good Luck and keep posting!
Blessings,
Atruheart <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

ATR

I'm trying to understand. I had done just that keep my feelings in my head for eight years of marriage, it did not work for me or my BS. I failed her and am try to fix the issues I had. Me expressing my feelings to her (good or bad) seems to be helping our sitution now. Telling her what I am feeling she is helping me work through the feelings. If she does not know what I am feeling there is no working through them.

Thanks for your thoughts, they are appreciated

RLL

Rll, well - you know I don't like the 'give her a chance' attitude either - but I do understand it. I felt the same way. I felt that I'd TRIED and TRIED and TRIED and my H just did NOTHING or did it all wrong! Needless to say when it all came down to it I felt VERY lucky that he gave us one more chance - because I'd botched up several before that. I still get overwhelmed today at how lucky we are that we made it.

Our marriage wasn't all that great - it wasn't horrible, but it wasn't great. We had a life altering thing happen - and a friend was there for us. I liked how generous he was - as opposed to my H. I liked how he never said anything derogotory towards other people. I liked that he was so good with our son. I loved his sense of humor. And I was hurting and lonely. I had a crush - unfortunatly I admitted it to him. Then things snowballed and since I knew I would NEVER have an A I figured I needed to leave my marriage. The OM and I made plans to be together and I broke the news to my H. I guess I wasn't prepared for the devestation. I really didn't think he liked me all that much. But he made it a little easier on me when he said all the wrong things and did all the wrong things. So I proceeded to continue with my original plan - until guilt and a touch of doubt leaked in. And the rollercoaster started.

I think if we would have had this site and these materials we might have shaved the 2 year ordeal down to 6 months or a year at the most - but 2 counselors never even TOUCHED the subject of infidelity nor gave us a plan to turn things back around - so we continued to botch things left and right.

But you have this site - and your wife has this site. You both have guidance that KNOWS the right steps to turn everything back around. And you're both willing. So that's a LOT.

I know you know this - but there is NEVER justification for having an A. I told my H that he DESERVED me leaving him for not listening to me and not trying all those years! Ooooh...listen to the princess. He most certainly DIDN'T deserve what I did - and the fact is I contributed as much to his wrong behavior by my own. The same goes for you. You're starting to see that you COULD have approached things differently - and it sounds like you have remorse. That's a start. But if things were so bad, you also could have always walked out - or gotten help. Having an A didn't solve anything - did it?

The biggest problem with the 'giving her a chance' attitude is that it sets you up as a prize, that she has jump through hoops to try and win. Many times when we'd decide we were going to try again I'd say I was giving him another chance. What a prideful and resent-filled statement - eh? It was the pride and anger that haulted reconcilliation time after time after time for us.

So if you want it to work - trying giving "US" a chance, instead of just her. Do your best to forgive the past - as she will do with you. And don't let pride get in the way.

Take care.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The biggest problem with the 'giving her a chance' attitude is that it sets you up as a prize, that she has jump through hoops to try and win. Many times when we'd decide we were going to try again I'd say I was giving him another chance. What a prideful and resent-filled statement - eh? It was the pride and anger that haulted reconcilliation time after time after time for us.

So if you want it to work - trying giving "US" a chance, instead of just her. Do your best to forgive the past - as she will do with you. And don't let pride get in the way.

Take care.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now how come I couldn't explain it this easily???? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> LISTEN TO THIS POST!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Thanks!

Blessings,
Atruheart <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Thanks AT!

Rll, here's a section from Dr. Phil's Relationship Rescue that I really liked. Again, for me, it hit the pride issue. Because I spent a lot of time arguing with my H about how he had failed me and our marriage etc.. etc.. Regardless of whether I was right in some ways or not (it was definatly a one sided view I was spouting) it was totally ineffective. I'm not saying this is the same case for you - but maybe you'll find some use in it anyway.

"I want you to decide that you would rather be happy than right. Being right and being successful, particularly in the setting of relationships, are not even close to the same things. The real measure that you should use in evaluating the quality of your behavior is not whether it is right, but whether it is working or not working.

You may have decided that some position that you are taking in your relationship is irrefutably correct. You might be 110 percent right, but you could still fail miserably. What I want you to do is to start evaluating the things you do in your relationship based on whether those thoughts, feelings and actions are working or not working for you. Is your position getting you what you want or not? If it’s not working, change it. Do what works, not what’s right.

Think about all the times, circumstances, and situations where you have gotten caught up in making yourself right rather than happy. Whether it is who said what to who, what’s the best strategy for raising children, how to spend your money, or how to deal with a difficult in-law, resolve to incorporate this Personal Relationship Value and do what works and generates good feelings rather than winning a “right fight”. Failing to incorporate this principle can mean that you win a lot of battles, but you wind up losing the war. Seriously, don’t think that you are EVER helping your relationship when you are grinding your partner into submission. Think about the times in your own past when you were the one who felt humiliated. Were you thinking “Oh, I’m going to learn some good lessons here”? No, you were in all probability resentful and embittered – perhaps even worse. Don’t think it’s any different when you’re on the “winning end” of that kind of exchange. The harder you fight to win, the bigger you lose.

I can hear some of you now: “So what are you saying, Dr Phil? Let my partner get away with some scumbag behavior – or let my partner lecture me even when both of us know I’m no the one who’s wrong?”

Of course I’m not suggesting that you turn in to a little lamb, trudging meekly after your partner. I am not telling you to avoid arguments when they are necessary, to avoid stating what you believe and also to point out to your partner the behaviors that are hurting the relationship.

The point I am making, however, is that your goal should be to make you and your partner happy by doing what works rather than working so hard at showing your partner how you are right and how he or she is wrong. For example, you don’t have to get mad every time you have the right to get mad. You don’t have to lecture or scold. You don’t have to prove over and over that you know what you’re talking about more than your partner does. You can choose a different emotion such as tolerance, understanding, compassion, or any other emotion that does not escalate the hostilities in your relationship.

By deciding to be happy rather than right, you will be receptive to your partners attempts to de-escalate hostilities and return to civil interactions."

RLL1026

I think I appreciate the intention of your post and as a BS who listens to all of my WHs thoughts and feelings, painful as it is, I think I know where you’re coming from.

While I am in agony over what has happened to us, I still desperately need to hear everything that my H is going through. It is the only way I can go back in my mind and understand what led him to turn his back on us. It has helped me to realise that I am 50% responsible for the state that our marriage was in and am therefore 50% responsible for fixing it. Being a BS does not absolve me of that responsibility.

I am certain that without this attitude, my H would also have given up on us and ran. He needs to see that I too, am prepared to make changes and that my focus is not only on his A and his efforts to make up for it, but also on both of our mistakes, pre-affair.

I know I am not the only one in this marriage who is filled with fear of future pain and heartache. My H also needs reassurances from me, that I will not be the same wife that let him down in the past. I don’t really see it as winning him back though, more as becoming the wife/person that I should have been, for myself as well as for him.

Being on the A rollercoaster gives us all gifts of knowledge, wisdom and insight, that we may have never gained without it. It is essential that we use these new gifts to grow and in my case, to grow up.

So yes, recovery is about my WH understanding and making up for all of the pain he’s caused me. It is also about me doing the same for him. However, I do believe it is mainly about us learning about ourselves and what kind of people/spouses we want to be.

Sorry if I’ve been rambling. Hope my post was relevant!!

H4F
Thank you so much for explaining I do see what ATR was trying to tell me. Sorry I am a little slow.

I do see how I could have done things differently. By the time I realized it was to late. The A did not solve a thing, only created more problems. I had many thoughts of just walking out. I just never felt the strength until I was already in the A.

My W however did change once I moved out. She is trying to be the person she has always wanted to be and the person I knew she could become. I hate that it took this for us to make changes. It is easy looking back to see how I failed and how easy it would have been to fix the problems.

We both are very different people than we were just a year ago. I am gratefull she has not given up on me. I like what you said about "giving us a chance" that really hit home, that is what I believe we are doing.

For me pride has never been something we had a problem with. Our arguments always revolved around SF and finances. I used to be the one who gave in all the time. It was easy for me to do. I would generally give in to her and we would do what she wanted to do. Again this is a point where I failed her. Had I stood my ground more and told her no once in a while then a lot of our issues would have never been issues.


Horizon

No what you wrote was very clear, not ramblings. I my case the changes are very important if my M is going to work. Things were not good before the A and it is only harder now. I think the best thing my W could have done was to consintrate on herself, it will make a big difference in our M. I know there are changes I have made and still a lot of changes I need to make and I hope our M will survive.

Thanks to all of you who have taken the time to listen, it really means a lot.

RLL

SF and finances - yep, us too. I didn't feel 'loved' and secure, so there was NO WAY I was interested in SF - and H felt I was irresponsible with money and treated me like a child (which ALSO got him no SF) - which in turn led to me being resentful etc etc...

I've learned how to be more responsible with money and although I'll NEVER be perfect - I respect my H and how important financial security is to him. We both work hard - but he's always been the major money provider. I was such a jerk - I never really showed any appreciation for that. I just EXPECTED it - kind of like I EXPECTED him to treat me a certain way and adore me the way I felt I should be adored. So for me - the issue was PRIDE! I'm glad you're not in that boat!!

Yes, it is sad that it takes stuff like this to wake us up - but sometimes you have to lose - or almost lose - something in order to really appreciate it. My H and I respect and appreciate each other much more than before. I know the two of you will too. The pain DOES pass in time. I can look back, and think back, with no pain anymore.