Here's one of those braniac questions FWH and I have been discussing lately.

What is the difference between infatuation, the fog and being in love?

Our basic answer is this:

1. Infatuation is what happens at the begining of any romantic relationship. It's attraction, butterflies in the stomach, an "I'm so fascinated by this person" feeling. At it's core, it's not real, because it's based on the masks people wear -- not the "real person" hidden inside. This is also when chemicals flood our brain, making us feel all doped up on good feelings. By the way, to our culture, this IS being in love. It's the way one identifies their soulmate, and it's the key to happy living. (Therefore, if you are "in love," anything is acceptable.)

2. The Fog is much the same as infatuation. We call it Fog because it hinders the participants from seeing what's real. In an affair, it's especially dangerous, because both WS and OP have a vested interest in keeping the masks on.

3. True "being in love" can happen ONLY after the infatuation stage in a relationship has worn off and only AFTER the masks are laid aside. Because this is when the hard work of truly loving (verb) a person comes into play. Being in love can LOOK and FEEL a lot like infatuation (desire, attraction, wanting to be with that person, etc.). But because it follows a removal of the masks, it's much deeper and more mature.

Thoughts? Opinions? Objections?

BH03

I totally and utterly 100% agree with all of that. I tried to tell my WH this same exact thing. Love is after the kids and the mortgage and puking and lifes little quirks.

HINY

So, is it FOG when your H says he hasn't seen you in "that" way in years? He's done a pretty damn good job of rewriting all of our history, that's for sure. And I'm pretty sure he's convinced that what he feels for me now, isn't so much - you know he loves me but isn't
"in love". (although he wants to be "in love" with me) and thinks "love" is what he had with ow.

Just wondering. Good topic.

I'm personally at a point where I'm not as concerned as I used to be about what he's feeling. Jump on Jump off, I'm moving ahead though.

Does anyone know that 'Love is a temporary madness' speech?

I don't know it off by heart, but I heard it at a wedding once and it explains all this perfectly.

It's all about how when the first rush of being 'in love' is replaced by 'true love'.

Lord knows we can't keep up that initial high forever. I couldn't concentrate for months when I first met my husband.

True love is a much calmer and saner experience. It certainly isn't when every other aspect of your life is thrown to the winds, while you indulge yourself in romance.

2. The Fog is much the same as infatuation. We call it Fog because it hinders the participants from seeing what's real. In an affair, it's especially dangerous, because both WS and OP have a vested interest in keeping the masks on.

Fog = "I am in love with OP."

Instead of the simple fact....

"I am now an adulterer."

Pep

Originally posted by weezy8550:

I'm personally at a point where I'm not as concerned as I used to be about what he's feeling. Jump on Jump off, I'm moving ahead though.

Spoken like a a woman who has found her center and doesn't want to lose it.

Brava!

Pep

Horizon:

Is this your speech?

"Love is a temporary madness. It erupts like an earthquake and then subsides. And when it subsides you have to make a decision. You have to work out whether your roots have become so entwined together that it is inconceivable that you should ever part. Because this is what love is. Love is not breathlessness, it is not excitement, it is not the promulgation of promises of eternal passion. That is just being in love which any of us can convince ourselves we are. Love itself is what is left over when being in love has burned away, and this is both an art and a fortunate accident. Your mother and I had it, we had roots that grew towards each other underground, and when all the pretty blossom had fallen from our branches we found that we were one tree and not two."

Hope so; I like it.

But I have to clarify this quote:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's all about how when the first rush of being 'in love' is replaced by 'true love'. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree with what you're saying here -- but I also believe you can have true love AND the feelings of being in love. They aren't mutually exclusive. It's just that you need to acknowledge that true love (verb) is what anchors your marriage and your commitment to each other. The feelings of being in love, which ebb and flow, are icing on the cake. And yes, they do return if you stay rooted and growing. And since they are deeper and more mature than the feelings of infatuation (although, like I said before, they bear similarities), being "in love" is far BETTER than that giddy infatuation phase.

BH03

<small>[ May 21, 2004, 05:20 PM: Message edited by: BrokenHeart03 ]</small>

Thank you so much BrokenHeart03. I love that speech. I may print it off and hang it on the wall!

I agree with what you’re saying, I just didn’t express myself very well. The ebb and flow of being in love is a great description. It certainly ebbs big time when you’re a BS, but I can still feel ‘in love’ at the oddest moments.

As far as I remember it, the giddy infatuation became a pain in the backside. I’d hate to return to the days when I couldn’t even eat in front of H and would only see him at night when I could wear full make-up.

It is such a relief when you can drop all that crap and find that love has survived the transition!

I’ve been thinking about this thread and I think I can see a few major differences between fog and infatuation.

Healthy infatuation does not usually inspire a person to give up all rationality. It does not make them drop all of their values, beliefs and self respect. It also usually takes some time before undying love is declared and the relationship is generally open to criticism. Infatuation does not stop a person from caring about everything else that has always been important to them.

Fog, on the other hand, seems to induce a complete personality change.

My H had 3 dates with OW, before he was prepared to give up his wife, home, job, family and friends, as well is his own sense of right and wrong. Fog will always find a way to justify the relationship. When in a fog, nothing and no-one else matters. All that can be seen through fog is WS and OP.

True love and infatuation, do not have this tunnel vision.

Just my thoughts………..

Thanks Pep, and thank you sooooo much for your fog definition.....that's really poignant!!!!!!!!!!!! Sounds about right to me!!!

It must be "love" right, or else it wouldn't be anything but the disgusting lie that it really is. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Fog has caused my H (who had or is having an A)to walk out on me, our home, our animals, and our unborn child.

Fog seems an awful lot like a mid-life crisis.

^^ for work-week reaction

Any other thoughts?

BH03

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Infatuation is what happens at the begining of any romantic relationship. It's attraction, butterflies in the stomach, an "I'm so fascinated by this person" feeling. At it's core, it's not real, because it's based on the masks people wear -- not the "real person" hidden inside. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I disagree that it's not real. It is a pre-requisite to mature love.

I think a better comparison would be between the immature love and the mature love.

Immature love is all about how the other person makes me feel. It's all about what's going on with me and what I can get from her. It's "the drug". I do think it's a necessary step towards mature love.

Mature love comes about when we step outside of the "me" and begin focusing on meeting the needs and desire of the other without destroying ourselves in the process.

Do not confuse mature love with "pleaser" behavior. That is dysfunctional and immature as well. "Pleasers" give to get some kind of emotional validation. They love to parade their "selfless" behavior in front of others. It's still "all about them".

I came to this conclusion while I was examining what would really be best for the OW. Logically, the best thing for the OW was no more contact with me since I had chosen to recover my marriage. That would allow her to rebuild her life as soon as she could and move on. But the 'in love' part of me wanted to get her back into my life. It would've destroyed her, but I wanted her regardless. That's when it was clear to me that what I had for her WAS NOT LOVE.

Low

I agree too but I have always had a slightly different take on love.I feel that infatuation is also known as falling in love and what is left over after that phase wears off is called being IN love.You are in love with your S.Falling in love is what people think lasts forever,which we know that it cannot.Falling in love can lead to being in love but not after we have experienced all of life's hardhsips,time, and grown together,"masks" are off as other's mentioned and are out of the fantasy stage,etc.

There's where I think society and the media do a disservice to marriage.We are all programmed to think that falling in love and those initial chemical/emotional feelings are what we should rightfully have ALL the time.It's just not humanly possible to always feel like that is what they forget to tell you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> So if we don't have these feelings anymore, well then the marriage must be dead or I married the wrong person or(insert sarcastic statement here).


Is this the age of entitlement or what I ask you??

O

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think a better comparison would be between the immature love and the mature love.

Immature love is all about how the other person makes me feel. It's all about what's going on with me and what I can get from her. It's "the drug." I do think it's a necessary step towards mature love.

Mature love comes about when we step outside of the "me" and begin focusing on meeting the needs and desire of the other without destroying ourselves in the process.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Right on, Low. This compliments what I'm trying to say.

One clarification, though: Infatuation is immature love. It has the potential to develop into Real Love, The Action (i.e., placing the needs of your spouse above the needs of your own) and Being In Love, The Feeling (i.e., having positive feelings when you are around your spouse, desiring them, being captivated by them).

But in my book, The Fog doesn't even earn immature love status. Because it's based on lies, lies and more lies. It's completely, 100% about the WS feeding off the OP to get their needs met (and vice versa). It's too disgusting and narcissistic to be any type of love. It's like a rapist saying, "But I loved my victim!" No you didn't. You used them for selfish gain, like a parasite.

But otherwise, I agree with what you wrote. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> There's where I think society and the media do a disservice to marriage. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think you've hit upon a key point, Octobergirl. Lately, I've been trying to untangle the myths about love that are rooted deep in my mind, thanks to pop culture (movies, songs, assumptions, television, philosophy, etc.). It's been a scary process. I've been influenced much more than I would have thought.

BH03

This is a great topic. I think I am going to have to think on it for a while before I try to define these ambiguous terms.

I like what LowO has said. If I had to pick one post I liked the best I think it would be his.
It seems everything has been covered from puking to Jumping on and off(someone is going to have to splain that one to me)
H

On this thread, the difference between the Fog and Love is discussed. It is a very good thread and much related to this topic.

This thread – Fog = Love??? is also related and a good discussion of the topic.

This thread give some insight into the nature of love and discuss real/true love, ego boundaries, romantic love and feelings of love.

<small>[ May 25, 2004, 04:58 AM: Message edited by: Suzet ]</small>

The main difference between Love and Fog State are: Heart-ache vs. Hard-on......

My understanding is that infatuation is a chemical response to attraction. It can be the precursor to mature love, or it can burn off as the chemicals subside and more is revealed about the object of the attraction.

For example, I was infatuated as a teen with a certain actor for months. Then I read an article where he came off as a superficial creep. The infatuation ended.

When I first met FWS, I was infatuated with him. As I got to know him better, I recognized we had a lot in common and were fairly compatible. That was "being in love": infatuation layered on top of a real relationship.

Later still, a more mature and complicated love developed.

As far as Fog goes, my interpretation was always that Fog is the unconscious self-deception and denial that is created to allow the WS and OP to override their own values and principles and manage their guilt and shame in order to continue the positive, addictive feelings of an affair.

Fog is similar to an alcoholic saying "It's just one drink, I can handle it," when the facts show they clearly can't. Or "I'm not hurting anyone, why can't everyone just leave me alone" when their drinking is obviously hurting those close to them.

Fog develops at the point where an inappropriate infatuation becomes an affair. The person has become so addicted to their feelings of infatuation that they ignore logic, facts, reason, history and their own moral code and start restructuring all those things to accomodate their addiction. Infatuation is a chemical biological response to usually very real attractive qualities in another person. Fog is where reality is disregarded by the WS and/or OP in order to continue the infatuation.

Common Fog statements include:
+ "I never loved you"
+ "Our marriage was a mistake"
+ "We were never happy together"
+ "I really love the OP, so that makes what I'm doing okay"
+ "The OP is a really good person. You will probably become great friends with them."

And other nonsensical statements that defy all logic.

<small>[ June 03, 2004, 09:55 AM: Message edited by: DefiniteMaybe ]</small>