Warning. LONG! And confused!

This is LL spilling her guts because she needs some serious motivation, or a miracle, to want to preserve her M. For a person who came to this site not quite 5 months ago thinking she couldn’t bear living without her H in her life, she has done a complete 180 and now believes she has no business on a MB site because she doesn’t have much desire to rebuild her M anymore….

I know we are supposed to want to stay M at all costs. I know I took vows. I’m feeling as guilty as some of the WS’s who don’t want to stay M anymore because they “don’t love their BS anymore”. But that is truly the problem at this point. My LB is apparently at below zero and I am truly more at peace (albeit lonely) when WH isn’t around. I don’t even want to Plan B to try and preserve my love or as an attempt to get him to come back because I really don’t think I want him back anymore. I’d rather just be his friend (see, still want to be able to talk to him and know he’s okay) and give up on the M, I think.

How this happened, I don’t know. It definitely wasn’t intentional, though I’ve let my love slide as my pain as subsided, because less love has meant less pain for me. I believe that as we’ve pulled away from each other, I have, for the first time since I met him at 15, experienced life without yelling, cursing at me, or having to walk on “eggshells”, and I like it. I can come home and even if my house is not tidy, I can walk in and relax without worrying about hearing how it’s an “f-ing pigsty” or how MY kids don’t do a “f-ing thing” around the place and now they show no respect for him (as if I’m the one who can control that—and know I do try to get them to treat him nicely, even when he’s yelling at or cursing at them). I don’t have to hear how I’m driving like a “f-ing maniac” when he’s riding shotgun (heard that this morning on the way to his tests).

He's not watching TV for hours on end, or playing video games, or sleeping, while expecting me to keep up the house because HE is tired from a long day at work and HE’s the man! (something he frequently pointed out to me.) My kids can leave all the lights on in the house overnight when they go to bed after I do (an annoying thing because I’m sure the neighbors think we’re strange) and no one is all bent out of shape about it when they get up. I can simply walk around and shut all the switches back off and go about my business.

No one is blaming me for not making sure they have clean underwear available. No one angry at me when they finally wander in the house at 9pm and find nothing was cooked for them for dinner (once the kids got older, if I got home and they were out and H wasn’t home yet, I lived on snacks. I didn’t cook a meal just for myself).

No one is blowing up over tiny things and threatening to start drinking again each time someone does something that upsets him (he made this threat for most of the two years he was dry).

No one is tying up the computer for hours downloading really nasty foreign porn and then being paranoid that the kids will get on that computer and find what he’s downloaded (we’re talking gross stuff—with animals and all—ICKY!) No one is calling at 6pm to tell me they’re on their way home from work, then getting “sidetracked” helping a coworker and not showing up for a couple more hours, and then making ME feel like the guilty one for being upset when they arrive late.

I am not calling all over trying to locate him when he’s not home, and then driving down to the shop to find him still there shooting the bull two hours after closing time, and being smug about not answering the phone because he knew it was me and just didn’t want to take heat for not being home on time. (He’s notorious for not answering his phone when he’s late simply because he knows I’m going to be upset with him for BEING LATE all the time. This only makes me more upset because not only is he late, but I never knew where he was. It wasn’t so much of a problem when he was sober, because at least I didn’t worry about a DWI, and frankly I wasn’t worried about him being unfaithful either because it’d been 12 years. Now I WILL worry about that if he’s not home, and I know it’s something that will never change, so I’ve not even made it a criteria for returning.)

It is also much easier to have a closer relationship with God when he’s not around. He doesn’t care for church. He won’t discuss anything Biblical with me. He and the kids refuse to do any kind of daily devotions or Bible reading (though at least when it’s just the kids and me, they don’t watch crap on the main TV all the time thus I am not exposed to it continually). The things he talks about, the way he talks, the things he watches on TV, the radio stations he listens to in the car (are any of you familiar with Mancow?), the things he looks at on-line, the movies he wants to go see—I miss none of that. I’m not saying I’m perfect. I still watch things I shouldn’t, do things I shouldn’t, think things I shouldn’t, and listen to things I shouldn’t. But I can also climb in the car and turn on contemporary Christian music if I’d like, or read my Bible without being interrupted. It’s nice.

And finally, I realize I have basically been a mom to him, not a wife. I’m not his lover. He had no desire for SF for years, and even when he did it wasn’t with a lot of kisses or hugs or time spent making me feel like he really wants me. It was wake up in the middle of the night, spend a few minutes in SF, shower, and go back to sleep. It was rare (anywhere from every 6 weeks to up to 9 months in between) and was like pulling teeth most of the time. He said it was just because he was tired—not because he wasn’t attracted to me.

However, now that he has OW, they seem to do it all the time. I asked him over and over if it’s because he’s not attracted to me or if it’s because I’m so flat-chested. He says “no”, but yet all the women he points out to me on the street or on TV or on his porn (and OW as well), are NOT flat by any means. I feel like because I am so thin and am not curvy, that I repulse him. Maybe I would repulse all men? Maybe I should be happy with what I had.

I don’t want anything bad to happen to WH. I want him to find God and get his life back together and turn out to be something worthwhile. I want him to go to Heaven. I continue to pray that God works in his heart. And I really don’t want to hurt him, which is exactly what I will do if he really is getting close to ending it with OW and I file for D (because all along he’s expected that this will burn out and I’ll be there waiting when he’s done).

I feel VERY guilty because now that he had the accident and has no vehicle and will be flopping at my place for a few days and perhaps this is the opportunity God is giving me to do a stellar Plan A and win him back (because he has no way to get back and forth to work unless it doesn’t rain and then he can ride the Harley). I see it as “Wow, I got lucky that he wasn’t drunk and didn’t kill someone else and ruin our family financially, and maybe I should get the heck out before he actually DOES let that happen.”

I know this all, and ‘hitting bottom’ may be exactly what it takes to make him come back. But I’ve become so selfish now that I think it’s ME who is going against God. I don’t want him back just so I can meet the EN of “taking care of him”.

I want a man who wants me as his lover and as his wife—someone he’s proud of and wants to be with, not just someone who will cook for him and do his undies and haul him around when he’s hurt. However, I did all this for 19 years before and it didn’t kill me. I took vows. I made a commitment to stay “for better or WORSE”. Where is my commitment? I’m as bad as a WS wanting to give up for someone new.

Am I in a fog now??? I'm feeling like my statements are REALLY selfish. So what if those things happen. Marriages aren't perfect. It wasn't a huge problem before. Why is it now that I've experienced what it was like not to have the chaos? I should have never let him move out--then I wouldn't have ever known what a more peaceful existence was like. I realize I could leave WH and end up alone forever. And I could end up losing the person God wants me to be with. I am so torn!!!!

We have had fun together--it's not been all ugly. We laugh at a lot of the same things. We enjoy going to dinner together. We have taken some fun vacations together (although he is also very tense on them and there are a LOT of eggshells to be walked on, too, because he’s always uptight and in a hurry and I’m not when it comes to vacation). I guess you could say we’ve been good friends, except that he’s not a very considerate friend when it comes to considering my feelings, and especially now, friends don’t do to friends what he’s done to me over the last 8 months. It’s sort of trashed the friendship.

So…2x4’s??!?! (Heck, did anyone even make it to the bottom of this post without falling asleep??)

Moral: I feel guilty because I know I’m supposed to stay married no matter what because I took vows before God, I WILL miss him if he’s not in my life, but I’m wondering if there is someone who would be better suited to me, and then I’m wondering if it’s a sin to leave my H even if he does give up the A or the drinking and if God will punish me for it. Also, wonder if I’m WH’s only hope of having a link to Christianity (none of his friends live it) and if I leave him, if he’ll spiral into such a mess that he never finds God again, and I’d be the one to blame.

UGH! Help!? Driving myself nuts!!!!!

LL

<small>[ June 15, 2004, 10:21 AM: Message edited by: lordslady ]</small>

LL, I finish reading it without falling asleep, even I am very sleepy from a bad night.

Oh, LL, I feel you. Actually I want to reach to your stage that I don't love WH anymore. It is less painful when you don't love him. I don't see anything wrong for you not to want to have him back if he does not commit. It is time for you to set the conditions.

I have so much time by myself now. I just feel so sad today. How I wish I can reach to your stage.

I know we are supposed to want to stay M at all costs.

I disagree with this comment.

Think about this

~at all costs~

........hmmmmmmmmm .... really?

Pep

Lordslady - You have to do what is in the best interests of you and your family... You deserve to be happy... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Dear LL:
I agree with Pepperband and MAW - I think sometimes you have to take care of yourself, self preservation. You can really only save the M when you are both willing to work at it, I think from reading your story you have put in so much of your energy and not getting much in response from your H.

Please take care of yourself, put your self first rather than H and his problems
Sandy

<small>[ May 26, 2004, 02:19 PM: Message edited by: Sandy0000 ]</small>

I don't think you are in a fog, rather, I think you are setting boundaries for your M. You will not tolerate behavior X in your marriage. Your H has a choice of ending behavior X or ending the marriage.

Tony

I'm not so certain there is a M to save?

MB teaches tools for recovering from infidelity when one S wants to, until both S want to recover. If that doesn't happen, then that's what the Divorce/Divorcing Board is for.

And MHO, if God didn't want you to D, he wouldn't allow it to happen. Perhaps he is closing this door for you, only to open a window.

Hi LL,

No,you are not in a fog,only coming to a realization,like I did several weeks ago.

Case in point: I have given every ounce of myself to my marriage and even after the adultery,gave every ounce I had to make things better.I gave and gave and gave until I have nothing left to give.I have done everything possible to try and save my marriage but I am the only one trying and have been for most of the last 8 months.

I reached a turning point though a ways back.I realized that saving my marriage is not the answer anymore.Is it what I wanted? YES! But it isn't what IS.I have been holding onto what could be instead of what *is and there comes a time,for each of us,when we have to let that go,as painful as it is.

I am SO mad at my WH today but I have been alternating between that and pure sadness.So much to be lost for the sake of a homewrecker.But that's WH journey and many losses.I have had it with him and I have been at the end of my rope for some time now.Nothing left to give.In order for me to survive and get through the D,I have to preserve what little I have left of energy and sanity.For my children mostly and of course,myself.I didn't deserve any of this and I told my WH that I will never forgive him for what he did and what he wasted.That is my cross to bear.

Don't feel as though you cannot let go and get a D because as ugly as it is, it may be the only choice left.It was for me,there were only two choices and one was D.The other was to remain in he** with my soul dying.I could not be a part of that anymore.Let go if you can't hold on anymore.Ask for God's help.I have and HE will get you through it.

Don't burden your heart with the idea of failure.All of us here know we are giving it our best try's.I can confidently look back on the past 8 months and KNOW that I did what I could to try and save my marriage and family.I will have no regrets about that like my WH has now,as he admits.

O

Once again, I find you riding on the same train of thought...

I feel much the same way about my W. I'm not sure I even want her back anymore.

Perhaps if she showed the slightest interest in putting some actual effort or commitment into it, I'd feel differently. But it just seems that this has been going on for an awfully long time and as much as I'm lonely and miss HER, The prospect of her returning and bringing with her some of the behaviours that really used to take their toll on me and her attitude (at this point) fills me with aprehension.

I've actually found a little bit of happiness. My self esteem (all things considered) is doing quite well. An entire evening can go by in this home without a single snide or sarcastic comment being uttered.

Anyway. My point is, I feel the same way as you. I'm one small step from 'shutting down' and deciding that, for me, this is over.

What's preventing me from taking that step is the belief that any future relationship with Dylan is going to be much better than it was before this. If it can't be, I don't want it. I deserve happiness and won't settle for less. If my wife wants to make this work, she's going to have to understand that and be willing to put whatever effort is neccesary into building a fulfilling and happy marriage.

I don't like her very much right now. By my standards, she is not a fit wife, mother or even friend. If I'd just met her now for the first time, I'd want to have nothing to do with her.

But I don't believe that is 'her'. I think there's something greater in her. I think that once it comes out and we are back on track, that will change. Then my feelings will change.

Then we can start falling in love again.

Rambling. Sorry. Hope something in there made sense to you. I wish I had actual answers for you, but I'm pretty confused myself.

dewt

I think I'm so apprehensive because I'm scared that he will make changes that will appear to be real and I'll take him back and then months or years down the line I'll get hurt really badly again. I don't want to EVER be hurt like this again. I hated it the first time. I hate it even worse this time (thus it has taken me less time to get to this 'questioning the M' point).

I know drinking or an A or violence could happen in any relationship, but my WH, as much as I love certain things about him, has a LONG history of bad behavior!

LL

Dear LL:

I just would like to comment on the problem that you mentioned with your body image.

We women have a tendency to compare ourselves to the models that are paraded daily in front of our eyes on TV, in the newspaper ads, in magazines. They are not real. Only less than one percent of women looks that perfect.

To set that record straight just go to the mall and sit on a bench for 20 minutes, watch everybody who walks by - and you will feel a lot better about yourself. This is real life, the perfect models are not!

You wrote you are thin...good, that is healthy and I am sure that you look great in a size 4 or 2 skirt. Better that than a size 20+. 90 percent of the women in America would envy you.

Besides...you could always buy a padded push-up bra or put a plastic surgeon to work (although I'd find that really crazy... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ). The key to your beauty lies in your own perception of yourself.

Stand in front of the mirror and look to see the beauty in yourself. I am sure that you would not "repulse" all men.

You have had enough of your H's behavior - and rightfully so. Your love bank is drained and that is good. He is the one who has planted these distorted thoughts about your body image in your brain.

If someone hammers in the fact that he finds you unattractive, you will eventually start to believe that. Get out of these unhealthy thought patterns.

Control the way you think about yourself. Stop being so self-destructive.

You are beautiful, you are intelligent, you are a strong woman. It is true, so start believing it.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lordslady:
<strong> I think I'm so apprehensive because I'm scared that he will make changes that will appear to be real and I'll take him back and then months or years down the line I'll get hurt really badly again. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There is always that possibility. However, there is also the possibility that you two will come out of this stronger than ever before.

I believe this is the kind of future we can write ourselves. We work hard at our relationship to ensure that it improves to a point where none of this can happen again.

Course you need two people committed and working for things to work this way, but that's another thing altogether... (grumble grumble)

dewt

LL is sounds like you are in a very abusive relationship and that is an entirely different situation. He might not hit you but he does verbally abuse you and it doesn't sound like he respects you. Are you willing to continue this for the rest of your life? We all deserve love and respect and to be treated decently. It doesn't sound like he can provide any of that.

Have you spoken to the pastor at your church? He could give you some very important guidance.

LL, the is the most sane, normal, honest post I have ever seen you write. I am concerned that you are developing some sanity and rationality. Sunlight seems to be peeking through your fog, but you wouldn't recognize it because of your past.

Only a victim of years of systematic abuse could think it is "fog" when sanity breaks through. You have been conditioned to live in a sick, abusive, dysfunctional household for so long that you don't recoginize sanity when you see it.
It is normal and SANE for a person to want to live in a normal, sane environment. It is no wonder you are confused and guilt ridden!


I wondered how long this would take to happen, and it is happening, LL. But does part of you miss the insanity? Does part of you miss the abuse and the chaos of living with an alcoholic?

Or are you becoming used to living in peace and sanity?

I would also point out that the goal of MB is not to save every marriage. Some marriages are not salvagable.

Sanity and self respect are sort of nice, arent' they? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> want a man who wants me as his lover and as his wife—someone he’s proud of and wants to be with, not just someone who will cook for him and do his undies and haul him around when he’s hurt. However, I did all this for 19 years before and it didn’t kill me. I took vows. I made a commitment to stay “for better or WORSE”. Where is my commitment? I’m as bad as a WS wanting to give up for someone new.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, you are as bad as a healthy, normal human being who is developing self respect and simply wants to be treated humanely. Welcome to the human race, LL! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Mel<------is so happy to read this thread that she can't stay away! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

LL...I've been keeping up with you over the months and I am absolutely amazed at the progress you have made to reach this point. Maybe this is the point that God needed to bring you to in order to bring His will about in your life. You should go back sometime and read your threads and see what God is doing in your life. I am so proud of you. You are sounding like a strong independant woman now and that is awesome!! I know that things still aren't easy for you but you have come so far. You keep praying and asking for God's will to be done and let him continue bringing about what is best for you!!!

LL, I agree with Lisa. I think we will eventually all reach to certain point that GOD wants us to. You are really strong now, especially since you set up the boundaries for your H to come back. Hang in there. GOD bless you. HUGs.

LL,
I have also followed your posts. If you remember, I told you more than a month ago that all men are not big boob fans. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I saw your photo on the album page and agree with the other posters....get off the negative body image thing!! You absolutely have no worries there.

I feel your pain because our situations are so similar. The post that you wrote today sounds like you are bumping around inside my head as well as some of the others here. I also struggle with learning patience!

I must say that I have to agree with Melody though, it really sounds like you are starting to realize that you are not stuck here. You do have choices even if they are not the ones you originally thought you wanted. It sounds almost like you are beginning to be at peace and enjoy the little things in life again. It sounds like you are starting to be hopeful about a future even if it isn't with your husband. I believe that's a good thing even if it has a twinge of sadness with it. Please don't beat yourself up over this. Know that you will come out of it a better person.

Wishing you the peace.

Dave

I'm rereading this thread a bit. Something has been bugging me...

I wonder about the difference between 'getting strong' and 'getting fed up'. It's something I struggle with a lot lately. I'm wondering where you sit on this one.

You are looking back and seeing how he has been less than the perfect husband. Now, the months have been passing by and this sick drama just keeps going. Any sane person would just walk away before trying to win that person back.

However.

We are not sane.

We are married.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

And what's more, if there's one thing that these experiences have taught us, is that the pre-A condition of the marriage is certainly no prize. After all, look at what it led to. I dunno bout you but I, for one, have no interest in going back to my pre-A marriage.

It has to be better.

Way better.

So maybe your boundries are going to become a little more complex than No Drinking and No Contact.

But I think if you remember that, deep inside you, and make it a profound part of your self image, you will be bound for success.

You can feel this and still Plan A. And Plan B too if it comes to that, and most importantly you can keep this feeling into recovery or moving on.

Anyway, there's my 4 cents. (by the time you convert to American funds, it's only 2 cents)

dewt

Wow, didn't expect my incredibly L-O-N-G "fog" post to result in so many comments. Thanks for ALL the input!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> It's hard to believe there were no 2x4's?!

Melody, I do enjoy the peace. I don't want to give it up. I don't want the chaos back. (Two rambunctious large dogs and an ADHD daughter are chaos enough!)

I just want to make sure I'm not going against God by being selfish. I know that God often expects us to stay in commitments and to do what we're supposed to even if it's difficult or unpleasant--sort of living with the consequences of our actions. My pastors have not said I can't leave him, but have also not encouraged it. I think they would be the most comfortable if I'd either take him back, or would live separately but remain married. I know myself well enough to know I can't do the second option. Maybe at 65. Not at 38!

I've been asking God for answers. Now WH has the accident, has no transportation, and may be ending the A. I'm asking myself "Is this where God wants me to take him back home because we have 'for better or worse' vows, or even though his A may end, is the unfaithfulness that happened still grounds for leaving him if I decide I don't or can't reconcile with him? What if he asks my forgiveness. Do I have to take him back?

I don't want to be selfish. I also don't want to intentionally hurt my WH, no matter how bad he may have hurt me over the last several months. I still care deeply about him and his happiness.

-------------------------------------------

Our DS graduated from HS tonight. Since WH has no vehicle and I wanted to make sure he was at the graduation, I picked him up from work and took him. And since he still has no vehicle, I brought him back here and he will probably borrow DS's car at least for tomorrow to get to work. Hopefully insurance will settle on the truck soon. I think they'll total it, so he'll have to decide what he's going to do then.

But here's the kicker-->> We're driving to graduation and he tells me that OW is moving out from her friends' house and in with her sister or aunt or someone in Ames--it's about 40 miles from here. So she's not going to be as easily accessable. Also, I guess he's not talked to her since Monday, and since then she's separated her cell phone from his family plan, gotten her own contract, and told him she's going to pay him the $100 it cost him to buy her the phone.

Sounds to me like he may be getting "dumped". Maybe even a sleazy OW doesn't see much future in a guy who is living in a trailer who just totaled his truck. Not looking like quite the knight in shining armor that he used to be. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

My immediate reaction to his statements was my typical "speak first, think second". I told him I'm not sure I want to stay married to him. (Nothing like dropping the bomb, huh? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> )

He said something to the effect of "that's a fine thing to drop on me right now". He sounded hurt.

I wondered why I said what I said but instead of stopping, I continued spewing forth my feelings...

I elaborated on how I've been through a lot of pain over the last few months and that he was given many chances to break off the A, and promised he would, and then didn't, and that I feel like the only reason he wants to come back now is because he's out of options. (But in SAA, isn't this one of the ways Dr. Harley says an A may end--when it's too much trouble for one of the parties. And aren't you then supposed to welcome back the WS with open arms and not expect any remorse or an apology?)

I also told him I was enjoying the peace at home--not having people yelling at me or at the kids. I told him I was afraid that if he ever started drinking again (well, he really hasn't stopped yet), he could have another A. I don't ever, ever , EVER want to go through this again. Twice in one lifetime to experience a WH in an A that doesn't end immediately upon discovery but continues in my face for months is ENOUGH!

And I told him I didn't want to ever have to look Mutual Person in the eye because the more I though about what happened between him and her that one drunk night several months ago (yes, he did something he shouldn't have with MP at the request of her equally drunken husband--it's in another post somewhere), I know he sees it as drunken stupidity, but technically it is also unfaithfulness even though there is no emotional bond and it was a one-night thing, and I don't want to have to look at and associate with the person it happened with. The whole sordid little life they all live down there makes me sicker and sicker the more I think about it. And that's where his camper is parked right now...

So, guess who shows up at the graduation? Yep, mutual person and her husband. And guess who was just as chatty to me as could be after it was over. Since we were out in front of the auditorium in a bunch of people, I was friendly to her and acted like nothing happened. I can be an adult when I have to. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

------------------------------------------------

So here we are back at home now. He's snoring away behind me in my bed and has been very calm and nice to me, acting like the last 9 months were just a dream. In fact, other than being very free with the "f" word which is common for him (and annoys me but I've given up trying to fix it), he's been abnormally nice and caring. I'm sure the comment about not being sure I want him back combined with a possible "dumping" from OW have him running scared.

But whether it's sanity or "fog", I truly am the tense one tonight. I care about him. I want him to be happy. But I also want him to be somewhere other than here. I am very frightened to walk back into things again. I am very eager for him to find transportation of some kind so that I can get him back down to the camper, or to somewhere, before he gets comfortable and thinks he's living back here and all is well again.

He hasn't said he's sorry or asked me to take him back, so I should't be beating myself to death yet about whether or not I will. I DON'T want the same M back that he walked out of. I thought I did when he left, but now I don't. It was tough before the A. I don't want something that tough AND the worry that he is being unfaithful each time we fight and he takes off, or he doesn't come home on time after work and doesn't answer his cell. I'd rather get out now (while I feel I'm semi-justified) than take him back and then have no Biblical justification and be trappd in a M that is miserable). But there's that selfish "me, me, me!" attitude.

As for the abuse statement someone made, in fairness to him, while he can be what would be considered very verbally abusive, I am somewhat to blame because I rarely put my foot down and stick up for myself anymore. I used to, and then I'd just get verbally abusive right back at him. And I was also a dish thrower. If I just ignore it and let it all roll off, it maintains more peace. But yes, after years and years of hearing negative comments, one does start to believe that they are a total loon and that everything in life that goes wrong must somehow have been their fault.

And as for the self-image, he's never actually told me I'm ugly nor has he actually told me that my being 'flat' bothers him. He just hasn't told me it doesn't bother him either. We've discussed boob jobs. I asked if I could get one several times. He doesn't want me to get one because they're expensive. He's never said, "You don't need one. You're fine the way you are."

And if I ask him if he finds me attractive, he says he does--it's just never spontaneous. I always have to ask him, and that doesn't have the same meaning (sort of like someone asking you if they look good in an outfit--what are you going to say? "No, it makes you look heavy.").

And it's always bothered me how he points out to me all the women on the street with big breasts, like I need to see them. I've spoken to him about it, but I don't think he understands how it hurts. He usually gets pissy about it. I'd love to wake up some day and have "grown", but chances are pretty much 100% that won't happen. And I've talked myself out of ever getting plastic surgery--too risky and frankly, too fake. I don't like not being able to find clothes that fit right, but overall I'm okay with me most of the time, except when it comes to feeling like I'm attractive to him. I don't feel I measure up to what he wants in a woman, and then as our SF has dwindled over the years, I've allowed that to confirm my belief.

Do I have a marriage to salvage? With God, I truly believe anything is possible. Do I want to salvage it. Right now, I truly don't think I do. I'm to afraid of getting right back into the same mess I was in PLUS lack of trust that he will be faithful.

What do I do? Do I just remain as I am and make him stay away, be it in the camper or wherever, and if so, for how long?

Do I just file (I don't feel like I should yet--not sure why--just feel like I'm supposed to wait.)

Do I do a Plan B? If I do, what is it supposed to prove? I'm actually not hurting very much anymore when I talk to him or see him. I can even ask about OW and it doesn't really bother me. I'm actually fairly content the way I am.

Sorry...another rambling long post. Maybe my next big change will be to start posting 1-2 sentence posts like Believer does! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Well, it's time to grab my blanket and my pillow and head for the sofa!

LL

<small>[ May 27, 2004, 01:04 AM: Message edited by: lordslady ]</small>