I have come up with a solution though. If the doctors could take the excess of my rear and lyposuction it up to the top I would actually have a good figure!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I have a friend/coworker who had a reduction last year and is now down to a very full C. She used to be like an FFFFFFF or something!

Anyway, we joked before she got it done as to whether if I came in when it was done, maybe they could just transplant it. She'd have had enough to share with me and a couple other friends and still had us come out looking good. She commented on after it was done, it was the first time she could really see her feet in years.

I can't relate.... (But am truly happier having nothing than I would have been being as big as she used to be.)

LL

WH has called me a couple times tonight to make sure that I was able to find DS and take him to pick up the car that WH borrowed today. WH was very calm and polite both times.

And when DS came home tonight, the first words out of his mouth after asking where his car was were "Where's Dad?"

(There came the guilt feelings...for telling WH he couldn't stay here tonight <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> )

I told DS (he's 18 and old enough to handle this) that I made his dad go back to his friends because I'm not ready to take him back, and am not sure I will ever be. DS said he understood and that as long as WH is seeing OW, he doesn't want him back.

Problem is, what if he quits seeing her. Apparently that means DS then is okay with him coming home. Even though the house (and kids) are calmer with WH out of here, do I risk hurting them in the long run if they want their dad back and their dad wants to come back, and I don't let him.

And I read too many of the posts about spouses reconciling on here, because tonight I have been thinking about the things I miss about him.

I'm praying for God's guidance. I'm going to try and find time to call one of my pastors tomorrow and get his take on things. I want to make sure that, by trying to make the best decision for everyone involved right now, I'm not actually screwing everything up instead.

Urgh!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> Why can't the answers be easy?
Why do I question every decision I make? I'm not very good at this sticking up for myself thing yet, am I?

LL

Recovery is EXTREMELY difficult. It's not just a matter of not seeing the OW anymore and living in the same house. Many couples don't recover from an A.

What do you need for reconciliation? How do you want to be treated? What do you want him to start (IC?) stop (insults, drinking, independent behavior?) There may come a time when he will ask what he needs to do to come home, that's when you give him the path back...what you want.

BUT, this is ALL premature. OW is NOT out of hte picture. At the threat that he was coming home she decided to fight for this wonderful, rich hunk of a man...

you know God works things in his time not ours but sometimes that still doesn't help in trying to decide what to do. sometimes i envy the people of the Bible and the times that God talked to them in the old testament or that they acutally had Jesus to talk to in person in the new testament. but i guess if God thought we needed him to physically speak to us he would but instead he has given us his written word and we just need to constantly pray for discernment in knowing what to do. you've got a lot of decisions to make but just pray that God will make things obvious to you.

for instance, the question you ask about your son and if your H stopped seeing the OW then what? well i say just cross the bridge when it comes. What a terrific son it sounds like your have <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> keep up the good work girl, you're are doing fine despite what you may think. prayers to you.

WH's text to me this morning:

"I can't take this much longer."

I text'd back, "What does this mean?"

No answer as of yet.


My questions to myself: Is he seriously close to a nervous breakdown? Should I worry about him being suicidal? Is he just trying to threaten me or scare me?

I know, none of you know these answers any more than I do because we're not in his head. I'm so used to taking responsibility for how he feels and how he acts...


LL

LL, it is time to set boundaries. It looks like he wants to come back. Stand firm.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> "I can't take this much longer." </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Translation:

I can't take the running back and forth trying to make two (three?) women happy. I am tired of sleeping in the camper and miss my bed. I am confused and I can't make up my mind. I want you both. You have taken care of me in the past, what has changed? I just can't understand why you are acting this way (I've actually had my FWH say that). I know I need to make a decision but I am getting so much pleasure seeing you hurt, letting you know you're not in charge, and spending my evenings with a new girl. I wish I could have it all!!!

You know what, Wh kept saying that I am very strange now. I don't know what he meant. But at least I am different.

Last night, when I tried to explain why I couldn't let him stay at the house, I asked if he understood. He said "No". I believe that is the truth. I don't think he understands at all why I wouldn't want him back, when just a few months I was nearly begging him to come back at any cost.

If I understand anything about the workings of his mind, I think believe he thinks he's doing me a favor by considering coming back and the following thoughs may have bounced around in his head: "Why won't she take me back? Doesn't she see the sacrifice I'm making and how lucky she is if I give up OW for her? I wouldn't have to, you know! She could just be alone. She better take me back before I change my mind."

They are most likely coupled with: "Oh crap. I thought I could do this and I'm finding I can't. How can I get back into my comfort zone and still remain in control?"

LL

LL, you are doing great. It is time to stand up for yourself. you don't want your old M, do you? from all my reading, it is time that you can control. be strong, GOD is with you. Lost of love, support and hugs from me.

you don't want your old M, do you?

That would be an unequivocal "NO!"

LL

LL,

I have read some of your posts but not all so forgive me if I repeat what others have said. You asked </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So if the unfaithful one now wants to come back to the marital home (which it would appear he might), does this mean I must stay M? That D is no longer allowed?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No, what your H wants is not the issue. It is a matter for you to decide. Frankly at this point he has little to say about this. If you decide to end the marriage you have every right to do so even if your H "thinks" he wants to come home.

I don't know if this has been mentioned to you or not, but I think it bears repeating given your decision process. Dr. Harley WILL NOT do marriage counseling if one of the spouse' has another addiction. From his years of treating addictions he knows that it is one thing at a time.

I would strongly urge you to NOT take him back until OW is gone from his life and so is the alcohol. Otherwise, you are back to the same situation. The alcohol is too strong a pull and it will pull him into trouble.

Frankly, I would make successfully completing counseling, end of OW, and end of alcohol a requirement to come back. You don't need him in your life in the current situation, and your children don't either. I am not saying don't let them see him, I mean as someone who lives there.

Just some thoughts.

God Bless,

JL

Are you two able to talk? Like really talk...

I dunno what to suggest. I'd almost say write a letter, but I'm not so sure he would read it. And I mean really read it.

I still dunno, but something tells me that it's important that he knows that you really love him but that things have changed. You have changed. You are calmer and less likely to explode, but you are more resolute and firm in your stance.

I think it's important that he learn to respect you. I think that will solve more problems than you might think.

I predict a power stuggle coming up between you and him. I think it's important that you prepare yourself for this. Figure a way to fight the battle without LBing.

So there's my disjointed Canadian 2 cents.

Oh yeah... I'm flat chested too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

dewt

Dewt,

Are you two able to talk? Like really talk...

No. That's always been a problem. I am a talker (you can tell by the length of my posts). He wants nothing to do with relationship talk at all. He avoids conflict, usually by getting angry, which makes me give up and shut up.

Could I write him? Yes, this is what I normally do. Problem is, I think they probably just get scanned quickly and tossed. He never wants to discuss them.

What it usually comes down to is two bull-headed people who neither one want to change. I refuse to become the person I used to be (because I've grown up), and he refuses to grow up.

The one comment he's made over and over that is absolutely correct is "I'm not the one who changed since we got married. You did!" SO TRUE!

I think it's important that he learn to respect you. I think that will solve more problems than you might think.

I agree. However, there is a LOT of personality changing that must go on for this to happen. It's not just me he doesn't respect. I don't believe he respects anyone--not me, not his kids, not his friends, not his coworkers, not even OW, if some of the things he's told me he's said to her are correct (and I have no reason to believe they're not).

I guess a good way to describe WH is that he's a bully who likes to pick on people. Being a bad-a** Harley dude fits him well.

He was quite proud recently to tell me that he's not taking s**t off anyone anymore, and that he's become a lot more ready to just thump someone if they mess with him. (This is a step in the wrong direction, but OW's not-yet-XH is in and out of jail for assault and probation violations, and the coworker that hooked WH and OW up is also a bad-a** Harley boy who likes a good rumble.)

I do think if I decide to hang on a while longer and not just give up, that a major power struggle is coming.

JL,

Frankly, I would make successfully completing counseling, end of OW, and end of alcohol a requirement to come back.

Originally, N/C with OW and getting drinking under control were my stipulations for returning. The list has gotten a LOT longer now (and as I've said, I'm not even sure I want him back).

Are the following unreasonable?:

1) Counseling (both IC for anger management so he doesn't constantly vent and belittle the kids and me, and alcohol/substances and a few MC sessions).

2) AA.

3) Come home directly after work. Run any deviations past me, and be home when promised. Answer the cell phone if I call him after hours.

4) Spend quality time w/me on weekends. This means not sleeping or playing video games all day. Also, not running away at 9am to help a coworker and returning at 9pm at night.

5) Access to his email, cell messages (even though he could text message and delete it before I saw it), cell bills--anything that I need to prove he's being faithful.

When it comes right down to it, we were probably doing good to have spent 5 minutes in conversation each evening, and maybe only slightly more on weekends, unless we went out to eat which gave us a good hour or so together. That's it. That's all we did together.

We may have spent time in the same house, but we did nothing with each other during most of those times.

(In fact, when he was still living at home but seeing the OW, if he came home at midnight and climbed directly in bed and slept all night, that counted in his book as time spent with me at home! Seriously!!)

Another issue: When he was at my place a couple days ago, I looked at him and tried to imagine SF with him again. I'm not sure I can get past some of the stuff he's done. It's plain ICKY! But that's a bridge I don't plan on crossing for a long time.

Oh yeah, it does bring up one other stipulation--get tested for STD's. He'll balk at that one, too.

I don't know for sure I'm safe, because I was with him a few times right after A started. I was tested for everything in January and was fine, but know HIV can take longer to show up. I'll probably get tested again in a couple months, but I don't want to take chances with my life by just assuming all is well with him if we get back together. He picked about as risky a partner as he could have.

So, how's that for a totally unreasonable list. I'm sure there's more that I'd like--help with the housework, for example, if he's going to criticize how it looks--but those are less important.

LL

<small>[ May 28, 2004, 07:07 PM: Message edited by: lordslady ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lordslady:
The Bible allows divorce in instances where the unfaithful one has left the marital home.

So if the unfaithful one now wants to come back to the marital home (which it would appear he might), does this mean I must stay M? That D is no longer allowed?[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No. I do not think you can allow him back without evidence of true repentence. The word repentence does not mean just saying you're sorry (and he hasn't even done THAT for crying out loud). Repentence means that the person literally "turns away from" the sin they committed and does it no more.

You have no evidence of this.

Another thing we Christians confuse, I think, is the act of forgiveness. You can forgive someone seventy time seven, that doesn't mean you let them back in your life to stomp all over you.

Don't let him.

~ Snow

As I read some of the other threads, and I believe it's WAT's signature line, I question whether I'm doing enough so that I can really look back, if we don't work out, and know that I did everything I could and not have any regrets....

My love, when it started dwindling, feel away awfully quickly. Unlike Jon/Sue in SAA where he hung around for a good part of 2 years waiting on her, here I am seriously questioning if I want my WH back and the A has only been going on 9 months.

It makes me feel rather weak and uncommitted when I allow myself to think about what I'm doing.

(Thus, I'm not going to think on it for a while. I'm going to get my nails done.)

How do the rest of you remain so strong and committed to your WH?

LL

<small>[ May 29, 2004, 10:46 AM: Message edited by: lordslady ]</small>

ll...My questions to myself: Is he seriously close to a nervous breakdown? Should I worry about him being suicidal? Is he just trying to threaten me or scare me?


sufdb...no, the unanimous position of the mental health community, and I think the Christian community, is no one is responsible for someone else taking their life. One could be criminally (and I suppose morally) guilty of something, if one actively manipulated and pressured another into killing themself...but that is pretty darn rare, and certainly does not apply to you...But what DOES happen is a lot of manipulation by people who threaten suicide if your won't do what they want....the only respons to that is to call 911 or other appropriate crisis center and do your best to get them involved....and do NOT comply with the coercion (except the minimum if a a crisis seems imminent until you can get help).

Hey there, you are getting some EXCELLENT advice!

Every M is different, and yet there are some similarities, that's why you can get such great advice. Why can one S remain in Plan A for so long, and some give up after just a few months? Different factors, even Dr. Harley comments that men can generally stay in Plan A longer while women sometimes can only last a few weeks. Why is that? I think it depends on how much energy has been expended throughout the entire M or the time leading up to the A.

I think you and I are in similar situations. We have worked hard spinning our wheels throughout our M. We have devoted a great deal of time and energy worrying, doting, nagging, convincing, adoring, frustrated with our H's. We have worked so hard that now that we have a solid plan, a plan that seems to have worked for so many people, we just don't have the energy. The hard work and effort that we expended for so many years was a waste of time and actually seems to have made matters worse.

Your H sounds like an energy balck hole...taking all that you have to give and not giving much in return. He has given you enough good moments to keep you hanging on.

Maybe I'm looking at this as a nail (...if you have a hammer as a tool, everything looks like a nail) because I've come to some realizations recently. My H and I are caught in the withdrawing H-Raging W cycle...I've learned a great deal about this from a passive aggressive website. Maybe this isn't the case at all, but I think it's more common than I'd like to think in cases of infidelity...where the H has started an A to 'get back' at the W and to exert his independence. I posted some websites on a thread in the Recovery forum...

Fog...Fog...Fog... It is so thick for me that I walk around thinking about my H and OW all the time, wonder when he is at work is he having lunch with her since they work together, wonder after work if he fails to come home in 45min (which it should take to get home) if he is with her, I can't even wake up without thinking about them. I tried to do things for myself go to gym, shopping, but I still think of them. I am on prozac for another health problem an know this is probally good. I don't cry as much, but when I do he ask WHAT"S WRONG? Right buddy like you don't know. Her divorce will be final on 6-7 and I fear he will bolt from our home to be with her. I can't even imagine how I will handle that. I forget to pay bills, pass exits, becoming hateful person. I have sent her a letter and told her my thoughts and feelings, just happened to be Mothers Day which didn't sit well.