</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lordslady:
<strong> Feeling blue. Questioning my future--what to do. Researching D on internet. Not sure still that I believe I'm allowed Biblically to remarry if I D. Depends on the proper definition of the verse in Matthew. Feeling very distant from God tonight. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I grew up Dutch Christian Reformed. Pretty strict religion. Went to a Christian grade school and highschool. The thing I've always been taught about divorce and what the Bible says about it is this: D is permissible by God if there has been unrepented adultury . You have given everything to your M. You are willing to forgive, but WS is not willing to end is A. You have Biblical grounds for D. And with that comes Biblical permission to remarry if you choose to.

I went through a similar situation as you. My XH is a very controlling, verbally abusive man. I spent several months trying to justify my wanting to reconcile, even though deep in my heart I knew that it wasn't the best thing for me. I went through the whole thing of if I D WS who will lead him to God? As if I were the one capable of making that happen. The thing is, we spent 15 years together...I was always religious. He even went to church with me for several years. It wasn't like he didn't know God. I've realized that if I couldn't "make" him accept God personally in those 15 years, I never could. And with that realization came another: only WS could be the one to reconcile himself to God. The best I could do was pray for him. And it is the best you can do for your WS whether you are married to him or not.

Whatever you do, don't give up on God. I too, had times when I felt far from God. As if I had done something wrong to deserve the pain and suffering I was dealing with. Even with the emotional and verbal abuse I was dealt, I felt that my life meant nothing without WS. Oh how wrong I was! In reality, my life means nothing without God!

Start reading the Bible instead of searching the internet for answers about D. Get yourself some good Christian self help books. Lord, I Want To Be Whole by Stormie Omartian is a good one. Also, The Purpose Driven Life by Rick Warren is powerful. There are several more. Read what the Bible says about patience. It was the most difficult attribute I had to learn, and I still struggle with it. But, probably the most powerful thing for me was just repeating to myself that "God is in control." He will provide for you. He will be the one true Love you need...from there all future and present relationships will grow. He will never forsake you. Never, ever forget...God has your best interest in mind....His will for you is perfect....his timing for things in your life is perfect. Praise Him for that!


Don't feel guilty for questioning God, or feeling distant from Him. He understands. Tell Him about your feelings. Start a daily journal, or a prayer journal, or both. I found it very cleansing at times to be able to put down on paper what my heart was screaming.

It's been almost a year (the 21st this month) that my H and separated. Our D was final last month. We are friends. I still love him. But I like who I am now, and I can't be that person with him. You will be ok. You will come out better. And, trust in God that He will lead you to whatever it is that you are supposed to do, whether it is reconcile or D, you'll soon know what to do.

Take care, and know that you are in my prayers.

God bless

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lordslady:
<strong> I may not be responsible for his actions, but I hurt so much for how he's killing himself. It's like ripping a piece of me to shreds. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Please, please, PLEASE! Do not ever forget that his IS the ONLY one responsible for his actions! He CHOSE to be in this A. Don't feel sorry for him. It is just another way he is trying to control you. Is it ripping him to shreds knowing the pain and anguish he's cause you by having this A? Take care of YOU and your kids. Don't worry, self-preservation isn't far away. Soon you won't be hurting so much for his "hurt."

LL, TB is so right. Please don't beat your self up. I saw your family picture in the MB photo album. It is a bautiful family. LL, you look great. GOD loves you.

TB, thanks so much for the uplifting post! You hit lots of nails on their heads in what you said. I believe God brings me people (and posts) that I need when I need them. I'm thankful I found this site.

I know the dangers of reading on the internet. Although I do try to go to church websites, I realize that I am not reading anything from a professional on most of them (Focus on the Family and those types excepted). It would be like me writing an article and people reading it and taking to heart everything I said. I wouldn't recommend that to anyone!

It's hard to separate the pain of what WH is doing from what I should do and what is best for the kids and me. Also, DD is becoming more defiant again which makes things difficult. She has a boyfriend (which she shouldn't even have t 14 but I can't figure out how to phyically stop it). She's gone each night before I arrive home from work. I tell her to stay home. She goes anyway.

I have these moments when I'm really hard on myself--feel like I've failed as a wife and am failing as a mother. I do keep praying and I believe that God will pull me out of my "pit" again just like he has in the past. I just have to hang on and trust.

I do need to read more Christian books. I had slacked off and hadn't read my Bible for a few days. I felt better after reading last night.

I just don't want to sink back into depression and lose the little bit of weight I've put back on, and go down that road again. I was feeling so much better. I have to be careful. Depression runs in my family, and even on A/Ds, I can still take a tumble.

I'm glad to hear you and your XH are still friends. I originally told WH when this first started that if we D we would NOT be friends. No I think I'd want to be, because I DO care so much about him. I told him last night in my tears that I'd never stop loving him, but that I just don't want the M back that I had. I want a normal relationship if we ever reconcile. And if we don't know how to have one, I want us to find help so that we can learn.

Okay, too long a post already. Please keep me in your prayers today. I am feeling pretty weak at this moment. I want to just go home and crawl in bed and sleep, but I know that's exactly what I don't need to do. So I'm going to push myself to finish my day and focus on the verses taped to my computer screen and pray for strength and patience and calm.

LL

Your DD seems to be the barometer of your state and the state of the M. It's pretty depressing for a young girl to have their Dad leave...it's like he left her too. She is looking for a replacement for that love and affection. Yes, you can give her that too. A lot of attention has been paid to DS lately, granted, time to focus on DD during this tumultuous time. Dad's not going to do it...it's up to LL.

Time to call the new boyfriends parents...get their stories straight. Ask DS what he knows about what DD is doing. Get into her life and show her that you care...sometimes that looks tough...she will appreciate it, someday if not today.

Show her she still has a safety net.

Problem here: Have tried to call boyfriend's parents just to find out if she's over there a couple times. They don't answer their phone.

From what I hear, they're losers as far as parents are concerned. Father is has had a number of A's on mother, and has apparently been physically abusive to older son, though not to DD's boyfriend or to mother. Mother drinks heavily to cope with all issues, and according to DD, works so that she can give money to her kids. DD thinks that's great. I think it's stupid.

Boyfriend and older brother are part of a local band here in town. DD met him through a friend of a friend.

I've met him--he doesn't seem all that bad to be around if you can get past the pierced lip. But I'd rather not have him around DD and I don't like her spending time at their house. Problem is, I can't seem to stop her.

DS, while in most respects is a good kid, refuses to take any responsibility for DD. He does his own thing and if he happens to know something about her, he'll tell me. But he won't go out of his way to help.

I may be wrong, but I believe because WH didn't show respect for me (he was never taught how as a child, I don't think), the kids never learned to respect me either. My words go in one of their ears and out the other.

I don't know how to gain that respect at this point, and I have to be careful because when I get frustrated with the lack of it, I tend to yell (not curse!) at them. That just makes them turn their back on me quicker.

Agreed, DS has had a lot of attention shown to him. With DD I have tried, but she's never home. I've asked her to go shopping with me. She always has plans. I asked her to be home tonight to go to the grocery store and help pick what she'd like to eat. Again--plans with boyfriend. I was going to manicure her nails for her a couple nights ago. She was busy on line. When she got off, she was tired and went to bed.

She says she hates the house--the satellite TV receiver on the main floor is on the fritz so she can't watch TV down there and she complains that there is nothing to eat (because it all requires cooking). So, she says, since she has lots of friends to hang with, she goes out.

I reminded her today as I dropped her off for school that at 14, she was not the boss of the house. Her response: she slammed the door on her way out of the car.

Maybe it's just PMS. I know that's a lousy excuse, but she really DOES get very moody around that time.

I'll try and remain focused on doing the best I can and being calm with the both kids and hopefully we'll take an upturn again soon.

LL

LL, you have so much to take on your shoulder. I wonder if any site that people have similar problems can chat like we do here. I am reading this book Parenting with Love and Logic. It has many theories, but I don't see how I can apply them. I am praying for my and your DDs. Hugs.

I agree--this has to be really tough on our two DD's at their age. I know pre-teens and early teens are some of the most difficult years for a child, and especially for a girl, because they're trying to find their own identity.

I've come to the conclusion that the best (and maybe the only) things I can really do for mine right now is to pray hard for her and then just do my best to let her know I love her and am there for her if she ever needs me.

LL

LL, let's pray hard for our DDs.

I all the sudden feel very sad again. Probably it is about time for WH to come home, but he won't come. I am home todya, so he said by default, he will disappear. How sad. I wish one day I reach to your stage, not wanting him anymore.

Soooooo, next night she's out at boyfriends, stop in for a visit... Hang out for awhile, sit and talk with the parents. And keep doing it... Don't let a phone call stop you. They are probably going over there because there is no parental supervision...not a good thing, so supervise her there. Take them out for pizza or something...get them out of that house. Make him feel welcome at your house...

I have tried to make DD's boyfriend feel welcome at my house, though I don't think it's worked. I can't be THAT bad -- DS's poker group has no problem invading my dining area 2-3 nights per week or more. And at least one night a week, they rent movies and hang in my family room until the wee hours.

I haven't taken DD and her boyfriend to lunch or dinner, though. Perhaps I could pose that as a weekend idea, and maybe that'd keep her home one of those days.

I'm also going to fight all the cables and wires and move the satellite receiver that's in my bedroom down to the family room for now so that people can actually get channels again on the main TV, until I can afford to find out what's wrong with the other one. That might also make having guests (i.e., pierced-lipped boyfrield) at my house more appealing.

And then if I could get DD to go to the grocery store with me to help pick food that doesn't require one ounce of preparation energy....maybe she'd have a reason to stay home once in a while!

I've never actually met DD's boyfriend's parents--only spoken briefly to the mother on the phone about DD's whereabouts. I think about 1/2 the time my DD is with him, he's practicing with the rest of the band at the place they call the "slaughterhouse" (it's one of the band member's houses). Great name huh? Instills all sorts of warm and fuzzy feelings. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

The name of the band is Slaughterhouse 6, by the way. I am going to embarass the heck out of my DD some night when they're playing downtown because I'm going to show up amongst all the teeny-boppers.
-----------------------------------------------

WH called a little while ago to thank me for dropping off his security deposit check. He sounded down. I didn't ask why. I'm sure having no money is getting to him.

I have still felt mildly nauseaus when I think about him and us and all the crud that's gone on and where we are now and where I'm supposed to go with all this. So I've done my best to pray a lot today and to think very little about my relationship. Seems to have helped some. I'm still feeling a little blue. I suppose it'll take some time to bounce back. I had myself pretty down by last night.

LL

<small>[ June 02, 2004, 06:07 PM: Message edited by: lordslady ]</small>

I am thankful for:

My God and my Savior Jesus Christ - Between praying and reading my Bible tonight, I feel much better than I did yesterday.

Good health and strength - I mowed my yard tonight and mowed quickly because there was little time before dark. The exercise perked me up, as did the crisp evening air.

My eyesight - I can read my Bible. I can read this forum.

All of you guys - Because you post to me and keep me focused and you show me you care. The support I get here is wonderful.

My son - Because he was caring tonight and helped me when I needed him to.

My daughter - Because she's home safely once again and seems to be in a slightly better mood.

My house, and my bed - Because I am now very sleepy and am looking forward to a peaceful night's sleep. Many people in the world aren't fortunate enough to even have that.

LL

LL, you have a great attitude. I really admire you. I am praying to GOD to give me peace and patience, and forgive my disobediance.

LL~

I guess I am lucky to have my XH as my friend. Not too many D's end that way. And I do still love him, I guess I always will, and sometimes it still hurts that our M is over. But, I KNOW that I am better where I am now. And I know that XH will never change into what I need him to be...it's not just wants, it's needs.

Ok, I know how difficult raising teenagers can be, I myself have a 13 year old S. And I know the separation and my D hasn't helped his hormonal tantrums, but he knows that I am the parent, not him. Oh, he pushes me to the point of no return sometimes, but it's at that point that he finally backs off, because he's learned that the more he pushes, the more he loses.

I have always been somewhat of a strict parent. There are just some things I WILL NOT tolerate, and for the most part, he listens. For instance, he knows that he does not leave the house until I get home from work. And I call several times to check on him. When I get home and he wants to go somewhere, I must know where he's going and who he will be with. If it is someone I don't know, or don't know the parents, or don't know where the house is...then he doesn't go. Period. He whines a bit about it, but he has NEVER gone against me on that.

I don't know what to tell you to do. It sounds as if your D may feel that this is the only thing she has control over. She can't control what's happening in her parent's M, but she CAN control what she does and who she's with, and where she goes. I wish I had an answer. It is a tough one. Teenagers are so unpredictable.

Some suggestions I have may sound a bit harsh. But they are only suggestions, and if it means saving your D from something she's not ready to handle, then they may be worth it. Get a babysitter, or have a trusted neighbor keep an eye on her. Sure she may be a bit old for it, but if she is not willing to abide by your rules, then she's got a price to pay. Involve the law enforcement. She is a minor, and she lives under your roof, and lawfully, she should abide by your rules. Begin withdrawing certain priviledges...phone, tv, computer time...take them away whenever she does not comply. Give her chores that must be completed before she leaves the house.

Again, these are just suggestions. If you haven't already, sit down and talk to her...she wants to act like an adult, treat her like one. Tell her that things are difficult enough for you right now, and you aren't trying to make her life more miserable, but you all need to pull together to make things work in your family.

Don't beat yourself up for your D's actions. Her misbehavior does not make you a bad mom. She's old enough to know right from wrong, but young enough to be selfish enough to go against you instead of work with you.

I mentioned the author Stormie Omartian to you in a previous post. She also has 2 other books that may be worth reading. The Power of a Praying Wife and The Power of a Praying Parent. Both are very good.

If worse comes to worse, you could get into counseling and have your daughter go as well. If you decide this, be sure to use a Christian counselor. Check with your pastor, he may have someone he can recommend, and sometimes the church helps with funds if that is an issue.

But whatever you decide, don't let lack of communication come between you and your D. And not just talking, I am referring to really listening to each other and discussing solutions to each of your views.

The one thing that got to my S was when I told him that if he didn't open up to me I couldn't help him. I needed to know what was on his mind and on his heart in order to know how to be there for him. That seemed to get to him, because now, at least, he doesn't shut me out...we can at least try to come to a comprable solution. Doesn't mean he still doesn't try to get his way, LOL, but it's not as bad as it was. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Good luck, and I will be sure to include your S and D in my prayers for you as well.

TB,

I know our parenting (WH and mine) has been too lenient. I have tried to be stricter, but was normally overruled--I'd tell them they couldn't do something or watch something and then I'd leave and he'd let them anyway.

I think when we had the tough spots in our M and I was working long hours, I was too exhausted to fight them. DS isn't terribly tough to deal with. He's lazy--so if you ask him to do something it takes about 10 times asking to really get him to do it. And now that he's 18 (well, actually since he was 17), he's been up to things, I believe, that I don't approve of with his current girlfrield. But we've talked numerous times about what I approve of and don't approve of and what he was raised to believe. I can't "force" behavior at this point from him. I can only pray.

As for DD, she's been difficult since day one. She has ADHD which was not formally diagnosed until much too late, and she's also VERY strong-willed and determined. She has her father's personality through and through. If she wants to do something--nothing short of physical force will stop her.

She was a very caring child (believe it or not, despite all the above) and really did want everyone to be happy. It normally didn't stop her from doing things she shouldn't, but she wasn't hateful and she was always truthful.

Then she became a teen, and she started failing in school (it got harder and her ADHD made it very difficult). She took up with a very bad crowd--but a group that "accepts her". She's become very defiant. A big problem is that she's totally turned her back on God and church and will tell me to my face that she thinks it's all stupid.

That is heartbreaking in itself. But because she doesn't have the underlying beliefs, it's difficult to get her to mind because she feels no guilt for not doing what she's supposed to. She does have some very pleasant days where she's chatty and nice and almost her childhood self. But if I try to discuss her behavior or try to get her to stay home or to do something for me, the mood changes. She lashes out. (Exactly what WH does.)

I know it's the wrong attitude to take, but because I don't know what to do (and am afraid if I involve the law, they might take her out of my home), I let her do what she does without many consequences anymore. I'm not sure what to do for consequences. AND, if I do it this way, she does a much better job of at least calling me to tell me where she is and who she's with. If I threaten her with punishment, she leaves and DOESN'T call, because she knows she's already in trouble.

It's tough. I find myself getting very sad sometimes about the states of the hearts of my children and WH, and I take a lot of blame personally for not being the strong, Christian mom despite how WH lived or parented.

I see my mistakes now, but don't know how to correct them, and I'm not even sure had I been the best parent in the world, I'd have met with complete success with DD.

LL

Hmmm. No calls and no text messages from WH since early yesterday evening. That would be just about the time that our insurance agent called me to say the insurance on the Harley was going to lapse today if it wasn't paid.

I told the agent that it was up to WH to pay it, that it was his "baby". Agent asked me for his cell number and was going to give him a call.

He has the bill. He knows it's due. He's been whining about having no money. Do you think he's ticked because I told the agent to call him instead of offering to somehow help him out or give him financial advice? (I would say "yes".)

LL

LL -
I had a horrible relationship with my parents from the time I was 15 until I moved out of the house at 18. And I mean horrible.

I was raised a Christian, but threw that all out. I didn't get back to the church until I was 30.

Please come along side your daughter. Invite her BF over, and try to have fun. I have done that with my boys - their girlfriends are always welcome in our home.

Believer,

I had that same horrible relationship--at least with my mother. I was NOT a Christian either. I wasn't nearly as ornery as my DD. I was a high-achiever and was an "A" student, but hung with the black sheep of the neighboring school from the time I was 15 (that'd be my now WH) and I drank, smoked, slept with him, and cursed a blue streak (and kept my mom from knowing any of that). I moved out three months after I turned 18, graduated mid-term my senior year, and started school at a community college.

I wasn't saved until I was 21 (not quite your 30) and then didn't do a very good job for a while.

So I DO understand that a person can come around. She is just SO far out there that I'm afraid something bad will happen to her before she comes around.

I've tried inviting her boyfriend over, but so far no luck. DS's girlfriend pretty much resides here, so I can't be all that bad.
------------------------------------------------

WH called me. He's short of funds and is really down. Going to have to use a charge card to get by this week, he says.

He asks what I'm doing (pulling weeds in my garden) and asks me if I want him to call me again this weekend (up to him).

Finally, he says, "I have to figure out what I'm going to do."

I didn't know how to answer. Just said "uh huh.."

I'm so darned fickle! Two days ago I was thinking maybe I wanted him again. Now that OW may be leaving the picture (he hasn't seen her in a few days and doesn't sound too excited about her), I don't want to go back to the chaos I'm afraid I'll have to go back to.

I almost feel like I should bolt out of the M now, before he has a chance to figure himself out. Screwed up, huh?

Don't want to be alone--but am SO at peace just being here by myself with no cursing, no anger, no yelling, no blaring TV showing "America's Wildest Beaches" or something like that, no calling around looking for him or wondering where he is two hours after work ends when he's still not home.

Ugh! What to do!?! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Wait? Go? (Not really a question for a MB website, huh?)

Most of the time I think I'd be happy to have him as a friend and nothing more. I have absolutely NO desire for SF with him. The thought makes me almost cringe.

LL

<small>[ June 04, 2004, 08:47 PM: Message edited by: lordslady ]</small>

LL, I am afraid of my DD too. Her problem is not who she hangs out with. But she is so sensitive and negative. Little thing would trigger her depression or anxiety. Today she was crying that she had no friend, she was left alone in the world, no one loves her etc. She complains that even in church, no one likes her. I don't know how to deal with her. Guess we both have a DD to deal with on top of the WH. I just wish some day that I don't love him anymore, so I won't be as painful now.

LL~

Boy do I know how you feel! I spent months wanting my XH back and not wanting him back at the same time. You miss what you've known to be "comfortable" and familiar. I can remember him telling me that I was confusing him, because one minute I seemed like I wanted to try, and the next I was doing or saying something to push him away. It was very confusing to me also, these variances in my emotions, and I felt just plain nuts sometimes. But like I said, I still love my XH. And it makes me sad that he can't be the person I need him to be. But I refuse to go back into the one-sided, controlling, dictatorship of a marriage I was in. I like who I am now. I enjoy being able to go where I want, when I want and not have anyone to answer to. I like not having to wonder what kind of mood he's in, and walking around on egg shells cuz you never knew what would set him off or when. I don't miss the name calling, the disrespect, or the cruelty of his actions and words. And I don't believe that he would ever be anything but those things. And that is why I chose to end my M. That and the fact that he refused to end his A and is still currently living with the OW. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I do truly understand your dilemma about your D. It is hard to become a strict parent when you've always been lenient. (SP?) Please understand that I was only offering suggestions, to maybe give you some ideas. Maybe the family counseling would be the best route to go, and be firm about it. Don't let your D control you like your H has. Take charge of your life and hers...she's only 14.

I know it's easy for me to sit her and dish out the advice. I'm not there living it. And I realize that it is difficult to "make" teenagers do anything we want them to do.

But, if you feel that praying for your D is the best you can offer right now, then by all means...PRAY, and pray hard! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> With God all things are possible and there's nothing like the power of prayer.

Can I tell you one more thing I've kinda picked up on from your last post?? And please don't take me the wrong way. But it sounds like you are making excuses for her behavior. ie: the ADHD, she's just like her father, you've always let her get away with stuff. Maybe to change her behavior, you need to change yours. I hope I've not offended you by saying that, because I really don't mean to do that. Just offering my very limited point of view.

LL~take care of yourself. You are the only one who can right now. Be good to yourself, and go easy on yourself. It's easy to blame ourselves for our children's and our spouse's behaviors, but in reality we are all accountable for our own actions. And that includes being accountable for our reactions to other's behaviors, also.

Be patient. This will work out according to God's will, and that, my friend, is never wrong.

Take care,
TB