How can a marriage survive if the OP or the A is a fond memory? Does the A and OP ever become an ugly memory for the WS?

I am tired of hearing about the fantasy, love, sex, addiction of an A (books, website, inner dialogue).

Maybe this doesn't happen, I know one Harley book said that a WH will always love the ow - I don't know how to talk about this with (F?)WH. My WH says ow and I are different, he doesn't compare us at all. But the thing is, I want him to see me as better than ow. I want him to prefer me in every way. How can this ever happen if the A and OW are a fond memory? (I don't even know if they are a fond memory or not, but they must be during withdrawal, isn't that a part of what withdrawal is?)

Loy,
I'm not sure, but I really think alot of it is a chemical stimulus in the brain. Everything I have read about romantic love is that it lasts anywhere from 6 months to 2 years. It is that infatuation stage of the relationship. Everyone is different. I think that is why almost all affairs end, because they are based on fantasy, not reality. Reality is when you are married and living with that person, seeing all the flaws that eat away romantic love. That's why plan B works or a spouse returns after separation.

Then comes the waffling. If you have had a romatic relationship broken up before you wanted it to end, there is a withdrawal period. I remeber couples who broke up and made up all the time. Those relationships were not based on anything but infatuation.

I think the key to lasting relationships in marriage is becoming the right person in marriage and unselfish behavior toward your mate. I would add that forgiving and forgeting is also necessary.

So that "in love" feeling is temporary and when the WS chooses NC, the "in love feelings will fade and end. I am sure that many of us have had relationships that would be rekindled if the opportunity and timing was right. Therefore, we need to recognize those times and run like heck if we are tempted.

Hang in there Loy, you cna make it it you really want to and just don't give up.

Christ's Love,
Roman121

Loy
MPOV
I have nothing bad to say about OM, but the A, is not a fond memory for me. It was my all time biggest mistake. Something I daily regret and wish never have happened.
During Withdrawal, I would have said, I never want to forget, I will cherish this.
So not true once my fog was lifted. I want to forget it. I'm so a shamed of it. It was very ugly.
I believe my H is now a better man. I also know that the OM, will be thinking of his W as the better woman.
You can't be with somebody in such a sneaky, lower than life way, and not question their integrity and loose respect for them.
My OM, is a great guy, I have no hard feelings towards him, in fact I would say I L him, but definetly not ILW him. It is fog thinking and fog talk.
I don't believe anybody could look back at an A, and think fondly of it. JMHO

kyellow, do you have children? I ask that because I want to know if you have any harsh feelings towards OM for not caring what happened to them?

TML, it is hard for me to hold him responsible for my 2 children. That is taking the blame off from me.

Which I try to make him understand it was my choice.

I needed to think of my children, not the OM, he had his own agenda. He was using me, for EN and SN.
My kids were my responsibility.

Loy,

I am with Kyellow here, the A is definetely NOT a fond memory. And I am not comparing OM with H anymore...I did that during affair. But I have to say:

OM and I had fun. We had a lot in common. We laughed. We shared many personal and private things together. This happened because conditions in the M did not allow it to happen there. It is also important for me to remember that if all of that good stuff wasn't happening with OM, then I probably wouldn't have had the PA and filed for divorce and went through all of the hell I went through to finally be where I am now with a great H. See where I am going with this? (I barely do!?)

Anyway, it is hard for me to just walk away from that kind of a connection with someone. But I absolutely don't love him. The relationship was what it was because of how my M was at the time and because of where I was as a person.

My marriage is surviving.

Roman:
I am trying to hold on, I think it will be a lot easier when WH is on anti-depressents. His doctor's appointment is tomorrow. It's very difficult, I think, for anyone to fall in love with their spouse again when depressed. I know it takes a few weeks for drugs to help with depression, I just hope they're working when the baby arrives. Gee, how many pregnant women hope the baby comes late?

KYellow: Thank you for sharing your experience. It really means a lot to hear that it's not a fond memory and you now think your BH is the better man. But I'm confused with how you have nothing bad to say about OM, that you L him but are not IL and then also make the statement, "You can't be with somebody in such a sneaky, lower than life way, and not question their integrity and loose respect for them." ?

Momof3byChoice: Like you my wh also had fun with his OP. They had a lot in common and shared many personal and private things together. WH actually said it was kind of like when he and I started dating.

The more involved WH became in the A, the more uncomfortable he was with me. Anyway, I'm going to take it as a small victory that WH recently said that he wouldn't be able to relax with OW, he would be more uncomfortable with OW. Whoopie?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Loy:
<strong> ... I'm going to take it as a small victory that WH recently said that he wouldn't be able to relax with OW, he would be more uncomfortable with OW. Whoopie? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes Loy, that is a vcitory. I clearly remember when onetime kissing OM I felt so different. Yukkkkkie for lack of a better word. I was confused. I was loving my H again. The beginning of an ending.

And yes at first being with OM reminded me a lot of when H and I first dated. I told H this and we now we act more like we are dating. No more farting in front of one another! hehehehe <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

loy
I had a relationship w/the entire fam, before the A, it was E and caught us both of guard when our feelings grew.
I guess what I am saying is, IL the man, the OM use to be, and the man I know he will become, because he isn't a scum sucker, like some OM.

He is a decent human being, he just made a big mistake.

I don't want people to judge me for my big mistake. I just love the friend I once had, he is a very kind man. That is all I'm saying.

I'm not one to carry around bad feelings towards people. If I did, I think that would make me his victim, which would mean I'm not taking responsibility for my part in the ugly A.

Do I make sense???

Momof 3,
NO FARTING????

Are you bloated??????

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by kyellow4:
<strong> Momof 3,
NO FARTING????

Are you bloated?????? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LOL...I think I said no farting in front of one another <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Also, I shave my legs a lot more now!!

Loy,

That statement in Harley's book made me freak, too, but it literally made my FWH sick to his stomach. In our case, it just ain't so!

Though he doesn't hate FOW, neither does not hold her close in his heart. He rarely thinks of her, and when he does, it is with sadness because he hurt the woman he loves deeply and holds in highest esteem ... ME! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Don't despair.

I had some good times with OW and I do remember them, but they are insignificant compared to the pain that my W and I went through.

Withdrawal is not sitting around thinking how wonderful OW. WS has some ENs which were being met with OW that aren't being met without OW, so WS is having to deal with not having those ENs met.

Quitting smoking and ending an A are probably similar--you know its bad for you, but you think "if you had just one more" than it would all be better and you could break it off.

IMO it can't (and I don't even WANT to stay married under those conditions).

This time my WH will have to sacrifice all pretense that OW were his soulmates, my superiors, 'good girls', innocent victims of his deception, etc. or else he loses me.

And he only has until September to get it because once the divorce is final it's too late.
His inability to see through OW's pretense of sweet gullibility will not be my problem anymore.

Frankly I'd rather the OW end up married to him, trying to put up with him grieving the loss of ME, than the other way around.

<small>[ May 27, 2004, 09:07 AM: Message edited by: meremortal ]</small>

Dear Ones,
I do not agree with the concept that the WS will always love the OW. I know that initially, my husband said that he was in love with the OW. He kept telling me that the "love" that he felt for her was different that what he felt for me, and that he had never stopped loving me, even while the Affair was on-going. When he saw how devastated I was as I learned about what had happened, and realized that I truly was thinking of divorcing him, he said that those feelings dried up within minutes and were replaced with a feeling of panic. He said that he literally asked himself, "What have I done?" That was three days after DD. From that point on, he began to see things as they REALLY were. When he was forced to tell me, he was defensive, and kept saying that what they had done wasn't "that bad" to have caused my reaction to be so explosive (and it was, friends- I was riding in the car with him when he told me, and I just went numb at first, and then became physically sick (nausea). I just wanted out of that car, and I was 30 miles from home. When we pulled into our drive, I didn't say a word, I just got into my car and left. I went to a nearby all-night store and began to pace the aisles (Wal-mart!). He called me about two hours later and I fell apart, and literally screamed into the phone, telling him that I would not come back home if he was in the house, and that I wanted a divorce.)
Wellllllllll,
Things have made a 180 degree turn around.

He left for two days, and called me, crying, begging for another chance. He said that he had been flattered by this girl's flirting and attention. He was feeling old and unattractive (mid-life crisis?) and that she fed his ego. He HAD told me that the affair had been my fault, because I had not paid enough attention to him, but he admitted that I had given him everything he needed - he had just been weak, stupid, and felt like a fool. He said that he had never really loved this girl. He had been infatuated, and if it had been real love, the feeling wouldn't have evaporated instantly as it did! What he was left with as far as his feelings for her go, was GUILT. He worried about her for weeks, worrying about what this had done to her. He took full responsibility for his actions, even though she had pursued him, because he was so much older than than the OW.

Now four months have passed. The OW continues to attend our church. She even comes over to the home of one of our friends in the congregation when she knows that we will be there, and I have to sit across the table from her. I continue to go, because I love the couple who invite us, and I refuse to let her control my life anymore! As he sees her attempts to stay within sight, he is seeing how manipulative she is. She has continued to cling to our girls and he said that if she had any shame for what she had done, she would "leave Dodge"! His feelings of guilt are still there, but they are directed to himself. He has prayed for forgiveness, and asked this girl to forgive him. He can't do anymore in that direction. When he is in her presence, he absolutely ignores her and holds hands with me.

He makes sure that I know where he is at all times, and is treating me like a princess. For our whole marriage (soon to be 32 years!), he was impatient with me. He has always been a perfectionist, and quick to criticize. I never felt that I could really talk to him about things that might upset him, so our communication was not what it should have been. Now, we can talk about ANYTHING! He has told me things about his early life and family that I had never known before. Some of what he told me have given me an understanding for his need to be "perfect", and while they do not excuse 31 years of sometimes selfish treatment, they do make me more compassionate towards him. We have re-discovered each other. I love him so much! He says that he has never loved me more. I'm sure that the pendulum will begin to swing back, and we'll be less intense with each other, but right now, all of this attention that we are lavishing upon each other is helping to heal my broken heart and spirit. I felt as if I had a hole inside where my heart had been ripped out! I am beginning to feel whole again. I still have some bad days, when triggers go off- but he is there to hold me and reassure me of his love and devotion.

Does he have fond memories? No - they just bring shame. Does he still love her? If I can believe him, no. He never really thought of the consequences when he got into the relationship. He said that he never woke up one morning and said, "I think I'll have an affair and destroy my family". Like many sins, he did this in baby-steps, until he was totally ensnared. He tried to explain it this way to me. He said, "You know the story about the frog who is put into room temperature water, and ends up being boiled alive because the heat under the pot is raised a little at a time until the water boils? The frog doesn't realize what is happening until it's too late." He was the frog! I wonder how many frogs there are out there?

My frog is turning into a prince. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Kyellow (I really want to call you KY) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> and Mom, thanks for clarification. You've given me some relief - there is a fart joke in here somewhere...

Snowbelle: isn't amazing how one little sentence in an entire series of marriage building and healing after an affair is so powerful? How many BW have read that sentence and freaked? Glad your WH responded the way he did. Mine didn't affirm or deny anything, he just hugged me. Right now I don't want to bring up ow unless it's necessary and after the Prozac starts working. He starts taking it tomorrow.

Jimmy Mac: I appreciate hearing your perspective especially and am glad the pain outweighs the fun. (It's weird saying positive things about pain.)

So, withdrawal is not missing the OP but missing having your EN met? Does that mean the BS also goes through withdrawal during the A and through the WS's withdrawal when their needs aren't being met? Or do we just get exhausted trying to work on the marriage alone?

Meremortal: I'm with you 100%. There is no way I am going to settle for being runner up. I want a marriage where my husband is my top priority, I am his, and our children can reap the benefits of a strong parents who are a team.

Marie: I am so glad your WH came out of the fog right away. Three days after dday? My FWH (fingers crossed) gave me 2 ddays. I suspect my WH became more vulnerable to an A due to depression and now that the A is over, he still has the depression without the quick fix of an A and the added bonus of guilt. So, I think he's had a hard time knowing how to make sense of his feelings. This is just a theory I haven't shared with WH because, well, I want to see if the meds change things.

My husband was suffering from burnout which is a type of depression. He was physically, emotionally, and spiritually exhausted. I think I know what you're talking about. He said that the phone calls etc. were a break from routine. They brought him some excitement and something to look forward to. Of course, that makes ME feel great, but I'm learning to deal with it. My husband is a pastor, and he was constantly "giving" of himself (legitimately) until he just ran out of fuel. We had not had a vacation in a LONG time, and I think that this state of depression made him ripe for the picking. That's probably true of your husband, too. In our roles as spouses, sometimes we have to help them protect themselves from that trap. I've learned the hard way!
God bless you. I'll be praying for you.

Marie: My Wh's father was a pastor who had an A too. It resulted in a half sibling and his parents divorced. WH is wondering how much his parents tried to work things out and if they worked as hard as we are. Plus, he is so scared that this child will be a boy (sins of the father, ect.).

I hope, through recovery, we will both learn how to protect each other. I wish I would've made WH go in for meds earlier, but I wasn't aggressive enough. I let WH blow off my concerns. I'll pray for you too. Every little bit helps.

There's a saying: "If they'll do it with you, they'll do it to you."