I threw the gauntlet down 2 weeks ago after catching my W in another lie and finally exposed the A to the OMW. We then discussed how to proceed with financial accounts and D proceedings over that weekend. Of course, there was lots of LB'ing going on between us....she cried quite a bit... and exclaimed she really was trying, she am not the girl for me, she knows I want kids and she doesn't, she needs to find herself again, etc. My W is a highly paid executive career woman who does not need me financially and travels quite alot.

Prior to this (the evening before), she told me on the phone that she seemed happier by herself (now that she was partially away from me in an out of state internship) and the spark did not seem to be there. Ultimately, there was still ongoing contact between her and the OM (married, out of state coworker). She told me "he is pursuing me". I am not sure if anything physical was still going on as supposedly this was over early November 2003. But I bet you her heart had never returned to me. She never did want to go to MC or put effort into the M.

So, now I am hearing from her almost daily (I do not call her)...she called very late 5X Sunday night (I did not pickup the phone)....and she is now using the word "we". She returns home this Monday. She is now inquiring about my day, how things are going, can she do anything for me, etc.

This maybe just a ploy to act nice now that I am moving towards mediation/D?

What do you think? She never was very remorseful about the whole A and used the typical WS excuses to rationalize the whole thing.

Two possiblilities:

There is a little peek in the cloud bank.

or

She's playing you.

Proceed with caution...but there's nothing wrong with feeling a little encouraged. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Continue with your plans ...

meanwhile...

behave like a model citizen in the marriage...

Pep

Well, Star*Fish was right....she was playing me.

She just called, we spoke happily for a few minutes....and then she asked if I had a chance to speak with any of the mediators to setup a meeting next week.....I said I had and what would be a good day to meet? She said any day next week.

So, back to planning our end......I mean, she just does not want this M....and why would I, anyway?

nature chere....I wasn't right....I just presented both possibilities...and one of them was bound to be right. In this instance, I would far prefer to be wrong....completely <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I'm sorry. I know this hurts.

(((((((((((nature))))))))))))))

Well, during the call mentioned above I told her I could not stay in our home (assuming we split up). She asked why...I said "due to bad memories" (this is a brand new home, we have only lived there 18 months). She said she can understand that. I then quickly got off the phone. She tried calling me a few hours later....and then called me at 1AM this morning (3AM her time).

This call lasted nearly 2 hours and went all over the place from her saying she was calling to say how much she cared about me and loves me, I have been her best friend, etc. I told her I have been devoted to her for 13 years and this is all new to me, I have not been out at bars flirting with women, having relationships outside or our M.

I discussed our R, infidelity, etc., she brought up the issues important to her (I did not listen or respect her, she wanted to move years ago and I did not, etc.). Anyway, I tried to tell her it takes 2 to make this work and I have given just about all I can give...our issues, to me, can be overcome...she responds she does not know if she has the strength..I told her I can be your crutch and you can be mine...we can make ourselves new again...she said she needs to think about it. I told her I had felt so insecure in our R and the only time I felt safe was in her arms...she said why I couldn't have told her this before (I did tell her before only using the words I was trying reconnect with you physically/intimately since this was missing for so long and I was so insecure). I mentioned we discussed talking about our R back in January, why hasn't this happened? Well, we have this big dark secret between us, how can we ever get closer (she never wanted to discuss the A and never came clean).

She returns home Monday...and she said she needs to think about everything.

What do you make of this? Should I go dark?

Nature,

Unless you are prepared to do a real Plan B and have no contact at all...or simply proceed straight to divorce, I see no reason why you shouldn't talk to your wife and find out if either of those two things is the right course for you. It sounds like she's waffling....not a bad sign. If however, your heart can just not take anymore fence sitting....you don't want another blow up either which would do more harm than good. How calm are you? How able to contol LBs are you?

I do not think I can do a "real" plan B. My W is currently out of state doing a 3 month internship....and she has been calling me all the time to just "talk"...I have been more or less her best friend. In a way, we are sort of separated but not really since she returns home Monday.

So, I have a meeting setup next Thursday with a mediator. And it looks like I am still willing to talk to her...but without her making an effort, it seems all for nil.

Maybe it's finally hitting home with her..fence sitter or not.

I have tried to be calm....but am hurting incredibly inside...to me, none of these issues are so incredibly insurmountable...but of course it takes a committment from both of us...and she does not seem capable of looking inside herself to figure out her problems/issues.

There were alot of LB's on the call....I mean, it is so tough hearing all of her BS about what I did, I did not listen, etc....I respond that I have changed, you have seen the changes, I am listening...but boy, it is so hard to just sit there and listen to her ramble on and on.

I do not think I can stay with her without a serious plan to address our issues with a MC. I mean, this is bound to happen again, right?

I believe she is one of the Narcissus type of personalities...it's always been about her.

True NPD is actually rare....she sounds more like she is just in a selfish fog. Nature, controlling ALL LBs MUST be your main mission right now if you intend to have ANY contact. I'm not suggesting you be "nice" to her....totally different.

So, what how do I act when she calls next? What do I do when she returns this Monday?

Do I try to be the gentleman I am? Do I apolgize to her for raising my voice on the phone?

Thanks for your words of wisdom. This is so hard on my own...I mean, if she just would talk to someone about her issues things "may" get better...but at least she would be trying. Why do I have to rescue this thing when everyone I know tells me to leave?

Nature,

Yes, you be the gentleman you are. No you don't have to apologize for being honest but from now on avoid the LB's. Remember the concept of "radical honesty", well when you mentioned your fears, when you were honest with her, what sort of response did you get? It sounded as if the response was better.

She is as much to blame for this marriage as you are. She has done little to help it other than to work and leave when it suits her career.

Even if she comes back you have to face the fact that for her the career is everything, not you. She will learn in time how foolish that is, but she will be way into her 40's when she does.

So be yourself, avoid the LB's, and be honest with her. Tell her how you feel, and what you feel. It may make no difference, it may considerable difference. Who knows??

God Bless,

JL

Hi Nature,

I don't think I have ever posted to you before but I realized how similar our situations are.My WH has been doing this too since the same exact D-Day as you and is still knee deep in it.I have also seen a Mediator and have started filing.

Since then(filing) my WH did some second guessing too but he is more agreeable now to me about it than I would have liked.I think he feels that since I am making the decison,he's off the hook.It's a horrible place to be in,waiting then having to decide to leave or stay in the painful situation.

We also just moved into our dream home the same many months as you but I am staying in it and WH is going to be out.I adore my home and we had agreed that this is where we wanted to stay forever together.But I don't honestly think WH cares if he's on the streets,he is so self absorbed right now.Initially,I thought about leaving the house too because of what has happened but I'm beyond that now.I have made it all mine and our daughters.It is my safe place.

My WH "career" has also been quite a contentious matter the past year and he was apt to put that first as an excuse to be away and continue on in his adultery.I told him I don't care where he works now,it could be the arctic circle.

And another similarity is the problems.I KNOW that we had a good marriage before but with the usual issues here and there.We never fought or raised our voices,we had disagreements at best.And what we have been going through is definitely not so much that we couldn't have a better marriage than before and work through whatever needs WH feels were missing.We even did the EN's Q and except for one need,I got all high marks 5-6's or whatever the higher areas were.

Well,like JL said,just be calm but firm,don't LB.if your WW is feeling pressure now that you have upped the ante,make her work for coming back,if that's what she wants.I have been through 2 false recoveries myself and even more hurtful displays and lies so I feel I am just about done too.If my WH somehow get's a clue at how much he stands to lose for the homewrecker,it will happen before the gavel hits the wood.It not,then I will know just how little I meant to him afterall.

O

<small>[ May 28, 2004, 06:43 PM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

OG, thanks for the kind thoughts and wisdom. I have read your story and had noticed we had the same D-Day.

It's funny, I think at some point our SO may see what they had. Of course, we will have moved on by then. I mean, career/money, is that what life is all about? Why can't they see what good people they have and somehow are willing to lose them to "find themselves"-talk about a mid-life crisis.

I guess when you stray outstide the M boundaries, you start to reflect on your own M and see what is missing in it. I know I have changed for the better and I can take that with me. I know I am a great person and wonderful man and someone will see how truly special I am.

I, like you, have done just about all we can do. I mean, how much is this M worth to us? How much pain can you go through?

I actually feel better about myself. But wonder at times why my W cannot seem to see what she has?

The phone call the other evening was almost a break in the wall so to speak...but still no great feeling on her part towards me.....I said quite a bit to her, it was ugly at first, but things got better towards the end.

She called me briefly Friday night and I called her last night but did not leave a message. She called me back a short time later....and I asked her if she was looking forward to returning home and she said Yes. She arrives tomorrow. I have an appt. setup with a mediator later this week. I am almost considering canceling it. But, she lied to me and I simply cannot trust her. She has done nothing to demonstrate her worthiness in our M.

So, she told me she would think about it. I need her to really want this, but am afraid she only sees herself as the most important thing in our R.

Hi again,

I would say go S-L-O-W.We have all heard the words and phrases before that leads us to believe that maybe they are coming out of the "fog" but don't set yourself up to fall.Maintain your course.I hope your WW will be genuinely happy to return home but just how often do we hear that and then have it turn out to be true? Not very often.

Remember,don't LB! Hold your tongue before you end up hurting each other more.If you can't stop yourself,say you have to go into the other room for a moment and you will be back.The temptation to LB your WW may be overwhelming but if she does return home and is sincere,you don't want to push her out again at this very vulnerable time.Let us know how it goes.

O

Thanks for the feedback.

I should clarify. My W has been involved in an out of state internship which will last about 3 months....so she never really moved out but simply started this new role which she apparently does enjoy and is less stressful than her old job (which she is still doing but from a distance). Her company would fly one of us back or forth during the course of the 3 month period. This was sort of a trial period to see if she would want this new role or move back east which would put us about 1 hour from where we both grew up (central NJ).

So, she comes in tomorrow only for 5 days and then heads back east. She has been gone about a week.

We were due to leave for a trip she won through her job on Tuesday for Alaska...but obviously we are not doing this together...and she is not going by herself....when I let the OMW know about the A a few weeks back (the OM is an out of state coworker) she told me that they were going on this same trip.

Just wanted to give a quick update.

She called early yesterday on her way to the airport. We talked for awhile just like old times....she was buying magazines at a newstand and read me a few recipes over the phone, chatted about the airport bar, etc...she was genuinely friendly and interested in speaking with me. She discussed the next time she returns home will be on a Saturday morning (not Friday nite)......which surprised me because I thought she would not think of coming home till Sunday to give me space.

She called me on her way home from the airport to chat. She came home and I gave her a quick kiss and grabbed her bag.

She put on her bathing suit and we both hit the lounge chairs and had a few beers. She showed me the recipes she had picked out, we talked a little bit about her family, basic stuff. We discussed our yard, landscaping ideas, etc....like there is a future for us together.

Later, we discussed getting some cheese/crackers....she said "do I have to get it?" and I said no, let your loving husband do that and gave her a quick kiss. We ended up making dinner together. I slept on the couch until she accidentally woke me up...I then told her I would like to sleep in the bed with her and she said fine. Early this morning I held her hand for a while....and then kissed her after I showered and caressed her face a bit.

I brought her coffee and then had to leave...she was sitting down and I said stand up and proceeded to reach towards her when she says "it's not like things are better".

I did not know what to say...and blurted out what do you want to do?, she said what do you mean, and I quickly added do you want to do something tonight and told her to call me if she wants to talk.

So, no real impetus on her part to open up, see a MC, etc. I mean, how long can I deal with this?

The original plan was to see a mediator this week to discuss our D options...I have an appt. setup but can cancel.....I mean, it seemed like she was happy yesterday afternoon, got some rays, etc.

Maybe I am thinking too much right now. Let me know, thanks.

*Bump*

Nature,

Are there any actions that suggest that this marriage is NOT heading toward the mediator?? If not, then proceed as planned. I suspect she is having a hard time facing what she has done, and the consequences, but that may not mean that she will do anything to reverse the consequences. It is really her call.

You have expressed that you want the marriage. You have expressed that you can and will forgive her. You have expressed your love for her. I am not sure what else you can do.

She has not faced her addiction to her job. She has not faced her A with co-worker. She has not faced what she has done to you as a human being and her H. Until that happens, little can be accomplished. You can only plan A, and proceed.

It seems to me you are doing just that. Keep up the good work.

God Bless,

JL

JL, thanks...you are correct. She seems to be interested in me....at times, like yesterday...but no real interest in working on our M. She has not faced or dealt with any of the major issues, just complained about what she perceives to be THE issues (lack of respect, I do not listen to her, etc.). But these are not the major issues in my mind.

She has droaned on about the typical stuff the WS talk about to deflect or defend their A...all the while I have changed for the better....so onto the mediator on Thursday.

I may end up trying to talk to her one more time...but what is the use, she knows what is needed to fix this or lose me forever.

Actually Nature, she probably does NOT have a clue as to how to fix the marriage. Seriously, think about it.

What would give you the idea that she knows much of anything about relationships? She is focused on work and always has been. I am assuming that you have read the articles here, but have you read any of the books? If so, leave them out, and if she asks what they are, tell her these books are how YOU have learned about relationships and marriage, and they are why you are changing. You now see connections that you did not before, and now have information that you needed.

It just might interest her enough to read them, don't force her, nor try to educate her. But, you can say that this is how you have become more educated and sensitive to various maritial issues.

But, I do think she believes the only way out is total capitulation to you, or divorce. Neither are very attractive to her. What she doesn't know that marriage building via the methods here require that you each change and meet the others needs, it is a win-win situation, not a win-lose, or someone gets the upper hand.

It is amazing to me how many people don't see this last option, but then again that is how Harley has made a lot of money and saved marriages in the process, but offering this path.

Something to consider.

God Bless,

JL