WhiteKnight,


In regard to what has recently been posted to thread: PAL-H-ready to talk…

Decided to start a new thread on this topic… you said: “Truth be told, because PAL is relatively new here, the're mostly me re-hashing things I said here months ago. For the sake of those of us who come here a lot, and who know me, I don't want to be repetitive.” Please, be repetitive for the SAKE OF ALL NEWCOMERS THAT ARE LEARNING! Duh….

Also you said: “Until a month or so ago, I was still thinking about all the sex I had with OW. A lot of the other WS I communicate with privately felt the same way I did. It didn;t mean we did not wan to work things out with our S, it didn't mean we didn't love them, but some things are harder to get over --- especially when we have to keep our thoughts about them bottled up deep inside.” I understand for reading all of these posts…you have not admitted you’re a to your BS? If I am correct, I might suggest telling BS, and letting your feelings and thoughts out of the “bottle.” Duh…

Also you said: “We all knew this MB is hardly the forum to talk about phone sex, masterbation, swallowing, oral sex, whips, handcuffs, etc.” Seriously, this isn’t the place to discuss that? Why not? Is someone going to get offended? A BS? A WS? I know I want to say something about this comment you made, I am just not sure how to say it. Doesn’t this statement sound funny to anyone else? I think about “intimate moments” between OM and myself, too, but I don’t really feel need to vent about it to another FWW and DEF. NOT a FWH. BUT I have told my BH of my A, and no longer am “bottled up.”

Also you said: “If two former drug addicts become friends, do they both start doing drugs again? Does every former alcoholic who becomes friends with another former alcoholic become an alcoholic again?” I saw LovingBoundaries has commented on this already, great! Ditto, ditto, ditto what Loving said…I am a recovering alcoholic…and the answer to your question about the former alcoholic becoming an alcoholic again is the “former alcoholic” is always and alcoholic…in RECOVERY. Someone does not “become” it, they are it and stay it, and can RECOVER from it. I will try not to get on a soapbox here, I just feel strongly about the opposite sex-member sponsor thing Loving said. Consider that please.

Also, as a FWW, I do understand that it can feel uncomfortable posting some stuff on here because I feel that most of the people on these boards are BS…mostly BW. How can these hurt, betrayed, wives read my thoughts honestly, kindly, and non-judgemental? Right? Often, I wish I had another FWW to just talk privately with. However, I could not talk/write/communicate privately with a FWH…opposite sex relationships of any kind would break the POJA between H and I.

Another thing I have given thought to is how much I, as a FWW, have learned from reading threads and posts from the BS….so that keeps me posting…maybe a BS could learn something from me, a FWW…in RECOVERY.

Lastly, WhiteKnight, I truly hope I have not offended you (or anyone else out there). It is difficult for me to communicate with written words only, as you cannot hear my tone of voice or see my body language. I mean no disrespect to you, or PAL, or PAL’s H.

MBC:

I totally understand where you are coming from, and you are correct. I have been told several times here that some of the things I have revealed (which is often a heck of a lot more than most people would ever expect) has helped BS. I am always happy to hear that. I like to think something positive came out of the A I began and ended.

That being said, I also feel that I have hurt a lot of people on these boards --- by accident.

The "visions" that some BS must have of their S having sex with another must be horrible. In fact, I know the feeling. I was cheated on by H.S. and college girlfriends, and the visions can sicken one to the bone.

I think a lot of A are about the sex. I mean, what was my A really? Sure, we went to movies, and to dinner, and we talked and laughed a lot. Woo-hoo! Welcome to the world! I could do that with anyone. But the things she and I did in bed --- they were daydreams come true (at the time).

Even though she immediately turned on me with bizarre accusations and files false police reports, accusing ME of being a "stalker" and other freaky stuff, there was still a part of me that liked her, loved her, missed her, missed the sex.

The more I talked about her, the more I mentioned the things she has been doing, and what our relationship was like, the more my friends here at MB beat it into me, that I was in a FOG!

I soon learned that I could no longer LIKE someone who could turn on someone else so quickly.

I soon learned I could not LOVE someone who may have just been manipulating my emotions so I could help her begin a new chapter in HER life because she was unhappy. Sure, I cared about her, but was it love?

As time passed, and I talked about other things, and started reading other stories, and began trying my best helping others, I stopped MISSING her.

But the SEX was still on my mind. It was diffiult to get out of my mind. Was she having sex with someone else? Was she having sex with her attorney? Was she taking it in the butt from her H again? Was she using her vibrator? Was she so sick over our break up, that she could barely be naked without crying? I wanted to talk about these things with others and find out how they felt, and what they thought. I hate mentioning these things here, because I don't want BS to be hurt.

Remember my famous thread --- WANNA KNOW ABOUT THE FOG --- HERE YA GO! ???

I was in a fog. But that doesn't mean I didn't let my imagination go haywire while in it.

Even though the thought of OW makes me sick, because of all she and her H have done to me ---- I still want to know ---

WHY in the world did she turn on me with such poison?

Is she mentally ill?

Does she HATE me for breaking up with her?

Is she so deeply in love with me that she wants to do anything she can to make sure I never forget her?

Is she mad as hell that I "ruined her future" that she is trying to ruin mine?

Is she perhaps upset about all she has done to me, but had no choice because she is weak and her H forced her to ask for restraining orders and told her to make up all these lies? If so, does that mean that she loves me still and cried every night over missing me, and over all the trouble she has caused me?

Is she trying to drive a wedge between my W so that "If she can't have me, no one can?"

Once the legal stuff is resolved, will she be happy it is over? Or will she be upset because she has spent so much time seeking revenge that she won't know what to do --- and am I in some sort of danger? Is she going to try to kill me or my W? Shouldn't WE be the ones with the restraining order AGAINST her????

What would happen if we ever bump into each other again? Will she apologize? Will she call the police and have me arrested for "violating the restraining order?"

WHAT IS GOING ON IN HER HEAD? There is no doubt she is emotionally unstable. She is most likely menally ill. But what on earth goes on in a WS head to make her behave like this?

These are questions I have been wondering for months and months, and no one seems to have answers for. Only 1 woman in the world knows the real answer --- and she's not talking!

And so I have made some friends here. And sometimes we e-mail each other in private. I am trying to find some answers.

These are some ofthe things I have posed to PAL, and she had some wonderful insight into the psycholgy of my OW. She has helped me. She has been a friend.

I don't think I ever want to tell W that I miss OW giving me blow jobs while I drove around town, and how OW used to scream "f-ck me on a table" and "f-ck me in front of a mirror" and "f-ck me until my head hits the wall" and "Teach me how to give you a hand job" etc.

Having a friend who understands what I am going through has helped a lot.

YES, I am interested in my W. Yes, I am interested in making my M work and be great. But I would be a liar if I didn't admit that the above questions plague me and sometimes keep me up all night and down all day.

How do I forget? How do I get these questions answers? OW and I will NEVER meet again. But I have to know --- was it all a lie? Who was I involved with for a year? Was it all an act, or did she truly love me? Does she hate me now, or is this some sort of infatuaion and compulsive behavior that she can't stop thinking about me?

My life is going quite well in many ways. I have so many good things happening at one time --- but my health has deteriorated, and I have yet to know WHAT the heck my A was all about.

Perhaps that is why I have not told W yet. I can't answer half of the questions she'll have.

I need some answers. If I can just get a grasp on a few of them, I can walk into the flames. Until then, I am just a man of straw. I'll be ashes within seconds. I have no defenses.

<small>[ May 27, 2004, 11:59 PM: Message edited by: whiteknight1 ]</small>

Geeez, Whiteknight you're at it again!!!!!

We DON'T WANT TO KNOW what you did with OW, but I had to laugh because they're all things I've said to my H. I wouldn't have dreamed of saying them to OM - he was such a prude.

But I DON'T want to know what you did with your OW. It sets off VERY unwelcome triggers for me. I don't WANT to remember OM. It is so painful when you keep bringing this up.

God, I've just posted on PAL's thread as well. You are really pushing my buttons tonight.

Jenny

Whiteknight -

Hello again. I'm not picking on you. I can tell you are still a bit foggy, and I want to tell you something my FWH has shared with me regarding his foggy time, and his clear time.

When foggy, H had all those questions about OW. Not the sex stuff, or the crazy legal stuff, but after d-day, she dumped him and got herself another boyfriend. H was devestated. And he spent 4 months in a little tiny apartment trying to get answers from her. She had none. Not one. Not even 1/2 of one. Nothing. Zilch. Nada. Zero.

If my H had sat around waiting for an answer, he would still be living in his little apartment hovel, trying to justify his actions.

And, ah, here comes the point of my post. The answers you seek, I think IMHO, is your justification. My H's justification of his A turned his entire world upside-down, changed everything about him, to include his core belief system. SCARY! He tried to live that way. It didn't work. Chaos cannot sustain itself long-term - it takes too much energy.

SO, you are looking for justification before telling your wife, because you think it will shield you from the fire of her anger, pain, her CHOICE?

You have no defense for what you have done. There is no defense. You lied, cheated, betrayed - you made huge mistakes. You had poor behavior. You must confess to her and ask forgiveness. That's it. Apologize for hurting her, ask her to give you another chance, and wait for her answer.

SS

Spider Slayer, are you with your H now? If you are I have some ?s for you.

I am. What's up? I love your song. Every time I heard that song on my radio in the car, I sang it wholeheartedly, and I didn't care who saw me! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I told H that was my theme song during our separation, and now when we hear it together, we sing it together and hold hands. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Geez! I'm all gushy mushy! Ug. I better stop.

SS

Sorry to change the subject of this thread but you are the only other person on this board (that I know of) whos h was dumped by the OW. Pretty much the same thing with my H and his xow, she dumped him and got herself a new boyfriend. He spent months trying to get her back. I have since learned that he was trying to get her back even while he was trying to get me back. How do you get that out of your head? Have you been able to reconcile without thinking you are second choice? These are the things that hurt the most I think. I can't stop thinking that he is with me (the woman who loves him) because he couldn't have her (a woman who used him)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Spider Slayer:
[QB] ...I love your song. Every time I heard that song on my radio in the car, I sang it wholeheartedly, and I didn't care who saw me!.... /QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am still awake and wont't rest 'till I figure aout what song you two are talking about.

WhiteKnight:

Enough about the "details." I have only read like a handful of your posts and too many of them have too many "details." You know what I mean. We don't need any direct quotes that came from your OW mouth....PULEEEEZE.

Yeah, the entire A is hard to reconcile. I don't know . . . when my H finally came home, he was 100% committed to me and our M. His feelings for me had come back, and the ones for her had disappeared.

The way H describes it to me, the reason he had in-love feelings for OW was because he had had an A, and wasn't the type to have an A (in his head), so in order for him to do what he did to me, he must not love me and must love her.

And he spent months putting TONS of energy into tht line of thinking - justifying his actions with logic. There is no logic in an A. It is feelings-based.

When I asked if I was second-choice, H said no. He said if she hadn't broken it off, it still would have died, because it was a fake reality - a fantasy - it just would have taken longer. So I look at it as a blessing. Why prolong the agony? They are home. Who cares how they got there.

As the fog wears off, he will become more and more himself. Also, he will begin to figure out what really happened during the A, once he has some distance and perspective.

My H now realizes that when I got too busy and stressed to make him feel like he was a good person and had self worth, and my "best friend" started telling him all that, he gravitated towards her and the rest is history.

Now he has that feeling of self-worth inside of himself. He now realizes that to get that from outside himself is fleeting and not real.

The mind is a scary and wonderful organ. Wow. And hindsight IS 20/20!

Lots of love and support and hugs. Do not feel second. He married you when he was well. He has come back to you. Take it and run with it. Don't quibble the details. In 5 years from now, it will be a minor footnote.

IMHO. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

SS

I think the POINT of some of my posts are how important the NC LETTERS are. I mean, had I just done that, or she had done that, life would be a lot simpler. We would both know where we are at.

This was more than someone being fired, or a frined walking away from a friend. In a lot of ways this was a REAL relationship, with very intense emotions and situations, and one minute love is in the air, and the second, two "strangers" are looking at each other.

I guess I just want to know how someone can become EVIL so quickly, and how anyone justifies it. It is a curious thing.

I wish I wrote a NC letter that she could have read and maybe showed her H. Or she could have written one to me. I don't care.

So, that's my point. No one should just "walk away" or abruptly break the A off --- without a NC LETTER. I didn't do that. I wish I had. Maybe her wondering things about me (did I use her, etc) caused her to do all she is doing.

And it's too lte for me to do it now.

So I've got to turn around and face the life ahead of me and not the situation I have left behind. The future is more important.

I better start doing some wrist exercises. When I finally tellW, I'm going to be busy typing away here at MB, huh? Maybe I'll go out and buy those adult diapers because I probably won't have a second to even go the the bathroom!

<small>[ May 28, 2004, 11:10 AM: Message edited by: whiteknight1 ]</small>

wk...I can't imagine trying to figure out the OW in your situation. I've given up on trying to figure the OM in mine!! What's going to change anyway! Focusing on what's ahead must be our priority. I would like to give an opinion on the details that you give here on your "relationship" with OW. Way too much detail WK! I agree with KiwiJ, sets off too many triggers and can't be good for BS's to read as well. I have a hard enough time as it is trying to forget these details. I am in a forced state of celibacy and have been since A ended a year ago because of H's diabetes issues. I would also like to add that if you and PAL are interacting on this level that it can't be good. Before long you two will be fantasizing about each other. Please be careful and respectful of her H.

Whiteknight -

Do you realize that you have done the same to your W that you think the OW has done to you? You did totally crazy things, hurt you W when she thought you loved her.

I bet your W thought love was in the air in your M, and then you turned EVIL (your term, not mine) and began acting in ways your W probably doesn't understand.

Will you be able to give her good reasons for what you have done? If so, share them. I'm sure a lot of foggy WS would LOVE some good justification material to try on their BS.

READ your words. You are backwards. You are turned the wrong way. You are focused in the wrong direction.

Turn turn turn. Defog.

Peace.

SS

White Knight - You are still in a fog- you need to stop putting energy and time into trying to figure out why this and why that about the OW,
it is over.

"Is she so deeply in love with me that she wants to do anything she can to make sure I never forget her?" "Does she HATE me for breaking up with her?" You are still obsessed with this OW,
you need to get your priorities straight, turn away from this A and towards your W, do you ever post anything about your W, how you are trying to make the M work?

Do you intend at all to tell your wife? how can she fulfill your SF needs if she is unaware, does she not deserve to know?

"OW and her H have gone out of their way to cause me so much trouble, that I can't imagine how coming clean is the right thing to do, just to make me feel better. The pain I will cause my W will make me to be quite a jerk. I am almost causing myself all this grief and pain because I am trying to protect W. She deserves better than me."

You need to tell your W - telling is not going to make anyone feel better but she has a right to know - be a man - tell the truth
Sandy

<small>[ May 29, 2004, 07:10 AM: Message edited by: sl000 ]</small>

all i can say is if you two were sooo in love and soooo connected---then wouldnt you know the answers to your questions??? come on---you two were different right---it was real. knew each other better than anyone...you MUST know the answers with a connection like that!!!

didnt know each other at all, did ya!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

"We all knew this MB is hardly the forum to talk about phone sex, masterbation, swallowing, oral sex, whips, handcuffs, etc. A lot of us did things with OP that we never did with S. I for one do not think those are things an WS needs to tells BS about. Haven't they been hurt enough? [Frown]"


WK1: You seem to focus on alot of the raw sex you had with OW. Do you think that this kind of SF is not possible with your BW? How do you know if you don't tell her and give her a chance.

I am a FWW from 10+ years ago.....my H is a FWH from last summer. When I discovered his A....I turned on the sex! I knew from my own past experience that this is what is savored (especially for men) in an A.

Our SF is like never before. We have been together for 21+ years and just in the last year have we hit new heights!!

Please, tell your W! Get a MC as a mediator if you need to.

My question to you is how have you been so successful at hiding all of the work, legal issues from your BW? How close are you two? Do you have children? I am amazed that she has not questioned any of these recent evnents. She must have alot of blind trust for you. Is it fair that you lead her on another minute?

I have been on both sides and the pain of being a BW far outweighs the pain of being a WW. I am so sorry for what I put my H through 10 years ago and I tell him often how sorry I am.

The important thing to realize is that we are still together....we are working through all of the hurt and betrayal.

I wish you and your W the best.

Patti

Actually I think Patti has a good point, if OW is nuts - and may harm you or your wife - don't you think your W has a right to know this crazy person is on the loose?

wk,

Why don't you answer these posts to you?

I feel like you just fling it out there sometimes. Are you on your own agenda? What is up with you?

You think you have helped some BS's here.

You have not helped me. It hurt so much to hear that this is what my FWS might have felt, although he has tried to convince me otherwise. It set me back in a huge way. My FWS and I always had it going on, but he chose to disconnect and seek elsewhere because of his issues of abandonment by his mother and lack of love from his father. What is really going on with you?

I replied to you on another post. On page 2 at this point. My sig is the last one one that post.

Anyway. How can your wife fulfill you if you have not told her what is up with you sexually?

Oh, and 7 months is a looong time to be in the fog. I will pray for you this moment.

ok, I am done.

Love in Christ,
Miss M