Tell him I said thanks. And I just LOVE his foreign accent. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I agree I have a warped perspective on all this. There is nothing that could have persuaded me to make that phonecall. Perhaps it is because in my world I have too many other issues presently to deal with. Infidelity is not top of my list. And certainly somebody screwing up half way around the world has no bearing on what is happening in my life. I read with great interest, but do I really CARE about what is happening in other's lives? Probably not enough. I'll take a big step back and leave it to the experts.

Edited to add - contrary to popular belief, I would not have a clue how to contact him anyway.

Lemonman - sorry to disappoint you. For some strange reason, I did care about that comment!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />LA, I'm shocked and delighted! I'd love to meet you! Testosterone aside you and I would have a blast!<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

***Jen, We're thinking of you so much...You and Rob very much have our prayers!***

Mrs. W

So, now you all can move on and discuss something else?

Mel,

I had really hoped through enough encouragement, etc Kiwi would tell...but being that it has been over a week...the chances were getting slimmer and slimmer...Fear is a tough thing...and Kiwi was full of the fear of the concequences for what she had done...

In all honesty - I do believe you did the right thing. Ihad to do this with a friend a year ago, a few months into our recovery...our friendship has never been the same, but the EA got looked at... and the person she talked to is still in her life, but I know for a fact her husband watches it full force...It's the best I could do.

Good job Mel...and my prayers are with Jen and Rob today...

Here's my take on this grace.

I believe Kiwi desperately wanted to tell her husband. but the fear of his reaction, the fear of the concequences to what she had done, overwhelemed her SOO much it crippled her...so two weeks later...she still hadn't told him.

After that amount of time, she would have just gotten deeper and deeper in to the crippled state of mind.

It's why she doesn't seem so angry Mel told Rob...she wanted to tell him, she couldn't, Mel did - the elephant is out of the bag, and now Kiwi can deal with it.

Let me tell you - as a FWS...I had to get caught - I couldn't tell my husband...but when I was caught - when he found out - as WIERD as this sounds, it was a sense of relief that now he knew and I could deal with it, and not lie anymore...

Mel did the right thing...calling Kiwi first wouldn't have done nothing...she has had - as someone said - countless posts in IVille, and in here, about telling rob...

I agree wholeheartedly with you, Dorry.

Mel did what Jen could not Fear is debilitating.

A comment to some of the posters on this very thread that have been joking around off topic. Releived the tension didn't it? Very stressful to watch someone's life disntengrate.

So help me understand why it is okay to laugh and joke in the midst of a crisis? For onlookers outside of the situation yet for Jen for trying to get momentary relief from the pain she is in results in the most evil hateful, non-Chrstian judgmental slams?

Remarks such as she doesn't deserve our support or prayers sickens me. I agree ROb deserved to know. HOwever, Jen whether she deserves it or not, is just human.

Not only was she attacked but her friends that love her - depsite her failures, were accused of EAs, not encouraging her to be honest, not exposing to ROb.

The assumptions and the innuendoes showed me that there is a big difference betwen touting Christian teaching and actuall following them or MB principles.

The sense of entitlement to do this horrified me. People that haven't known her for long. People that lashed out due to their own fears and their own failures. BLECH!

IF they had actually applied the principles that MB stands for, and THOUGHT of a constructive way to HELP, well I hope they have the good sense to take a long hard look at themselves.

For example, when a BS pushes and pushes and pushes, what is the natural reaction of the WS? And this applies to life in general. The person FEELS attacked, gets defensive and RESISTS.

Every single one of the posters here has done something they are truly ashamed of. Might want to fix but are frozen into doing nothing. Yet IF they FEEL atacked on all fronts they have either continued the behaviour with a feeling of "well they say I am so bad, what do I have to gain by changing?" I am NOT saying it is right or wrong.

Just human nature. How many BSs have seen this in the WS? THe majority I would guess.

Oh well, I am not expecting any undertanding from the posters in question. They will assume I am attacking them.

Not so, just suggesting that we ALL need to look in our own back yars before casting stones and going on a witch hunt.

Let's move on already.

Isn't that exactly what you are doing yourself with this post? Hasn't this board been through enough, FAA? Why go on the attack? It's time to take a breather and stop all this. Don't you think this board has suffered enough drama and dissension from Kiwi's affair?

Put down your arms, PLEASE.

False accusation. I have NOTHING to be ashamed of on this thread. What is your motivation in posting the statement above <rhetorical question>.

Exposure has taken place, Jen and Rob are now in a place where they can mitigate the damage and heal. Drama over. Thank goodness.

Jo

First, Resilient, I don't mean to be responding for FAA, but I will: you added the words "on this thread." I do believe she was referring to life in general.


I respectfully kept my fingers away from the keyboard, out of Jen's request. It was confirmed that I did the right thing by not responding, by FAA's eloquent, straightforward, non-attacking, yet suppportive response. Well done, FAA!

Then I read on...

Will you please explain how FAA attacked you or anyone else, Mel? Don't twist what went on: Jen has been persecuted and her "friends" have been attacked. Then YOU tell HER to stop all of this?!?!? Once again, somehow, the center of attention has slipped away from where it should be: Jen's recovery. The appluse you have received is disgusting and a disgrace, IMHO--and that's all it is--an opinion.

I was just reminded of a word that fits this scenario perfectly: vigilante.

"Hasn't this board had enough?" Understatement of the year. Although I have "removed" myself from the boards because of situations EXACTLY like this, I have kept in contact with many of the memebers and the goings-on on MB, and not much has changed.

It seems as if this site has become a crusade, whether right or wrong, at ALL COSTS. Do I need to remind everyone, THESE ARE HUMAN BEINGS BEHIND THESE WORDS?

I can not understand--which is my own problem--how this was considered "right" and in the principles of MB. This act was not done out of love or friendship--just out of one's opinion that this was the right thing to do, disregarding any of the consequences, good or bad. Principles are just that: "a fundamental truth or doctrine on which others are based." Fundamentally, exposure is necessary to stop an affair. But to whom and by whom and when? Who decides this? Apparently all situations are the same, I am, mistaken. (Notice how I did not say "affairs."?) And apparently we all should berade and attack and meddle with everyone elses lives who is a WS, regardless of their situations, for the good of MB! The good of mankind! Or is it really for some sort of warped personal gain?

I am trying to be so subjective and not attempting to attack ANYBODY: just the act that was done, just like we all attack affairs.

And its a wonder why WS' even come to this site. Even more of a miracle that they sometimes stay on the boards, with how most of them are treated. I am lucky and blessed, BY THE GRACE AND TIMING OF GOD--or, COINCIDENCE--that my wife found out on her own of my renewed contact. And when I went through this myself, and finally heard the "POP" of my head being removed from my [censored], I felt less of a human, first and foremost by MY OWN actions, but also MB posters, who I turned to for support, who some treated me like the "pond scum" I already felt like and ACTED like. I was looking for wisdom, advice, words, even a 2x4--not sympathy--but what I got from some was a "write-off" as a human and some "I told you so's." I f*d up and was stoned after the boulder already fell on me. How did this help me? I can tell you this: if brown wasn't the woman she was and even better as "is" then I would probably be divorced. ONLY by MY actions. Oh, please, nobody twist my words into saying I would have blamed anybody on or MB itself. I TAKE FULL ACCOUNTABILITY FOR EVERYTHING IN THIS LIFE I HAVE DONE. But when I was seeking help, I was spat on. Did I deserve it? Certainly in my eyes I did. And many confirmed it. But is this really what this site is for?

I'm not meaning to, but turning this into what happened to me and brown. Then again, isn't this what we all bring to the MB: our own personal experiences?

Blessings, prayers, and good fortune to ALL.

LINY

You know what, LINY? The only person I have seen "persecuted" here is Jen's husband, ROB. Just because many others gave Jen a much deserved 2x4 for her thoughtless, cruel behavior while she continued to rape him does not make her a victim. Nor are her friends "victims." The only real victim in this scenario is her husband, Rob.


Using your logic, the police are "vigilantes" when they warn someone their bookkeeper is embezzling money from him. How insane. If no one ever exposed evil, then evil would prevail.

What is WRONG is adultery, LINY. There is nothing wrong with exposing it. Truth is the solution to adultery, not more lying. The consequences of adultery and chronic lying are enormous and harmful; the consequences of exposure are therapeutic.

I am really puzzled why you and FAA are trying to so hard to fan the flames of this board drama. Why not put your weapons down and let everyone get back to their business? It's over, folks.

"It's over, folks."
When you say it is, right?

You're absolutely right: the only "victim" of this affair is Rob. Period. I was referring to her treatment. Unless you don't think she is being "victimized" by hol"ier than thou" comments, I guess I am mistaken yet again.

"Using your logic, the police are "vigilantes" when they warn someone their bookkeeper is embezzling money from him. How insane. If no one ever exposed evil, then evil would prevail."
This is the most ludicrous (sp?) analogy I have heard in a while. The police are not citizens; you are. However, you pretty much summed it up: you feel you are above the "law" and took it upon yourself to "right" something.

"What is WRONG is adultery, LINY."
ABSOLUTELY!

"There is nothing wrong with exposing it."
But, the question is, by whom? And in this situation, it was not the initial exposure, which does make a difference, IMHO.

"Truth is the solution to adultery, not more lying. The consequences of adultery and chronic lying are enormous and harmful; the consequences of exposure are therapeutic."
Again, by whom and FOR whom? Are you going to be there on the phone when they start recovering? Are you going to be there also in there marriage counseling sessions? Would you have been there if Rob flipped on Jen? Would you have been there if you did NOT get the response that Rob gave you?

"I am really puzzled why you and FAA are trying to so hard to fan the flames of this board drama."
As you defend your own principles, I am defending mine: what works for one doesn't necessarily work for someone else. And, my own principle and opionion that you were way out of and crossed that line. I did not want to start using "you", but you asked.
And "fanning the flames?" I believe Jen supplied the wood and you actually got the fire going. Why should your opinion only count for something?

"Why not put your weapons down and let everyone get back to their business?"
I put my "weapon" down when I started rebuilding my marriage. I put my weapon down when I stopped gambling. I am getting back to business--finally. I just find it amazing that you think me or even FAA--and I can't speak for her, again--have our weapons drawn when we disagree with something you said and did?

LINY

Baloney, your use of the word "vigilante" is ill used because exposing an affair is not a "law." It refers to to the act of RENDERING justice by taking the law into one's own hands. WARNING SOMEONE they are being harmed behind their back is not rendering justice, it is an act of human kindness. One does not have to be a law enforcement officer to alert someone to wrongdoing. It is silly to think that only the "police" can warn someone they are being harmed.


Of course I am not going to be there when they start recovering, I do not fancy myself as a counselor. But that is not a standard for telling someone the truth. If I tell my neighbor his DD is being molested, it does not mean I am somehow OBLIGATED to counsel that child. Your manufactured standard is nonsense. If we were all obliged to treat the victim in order to expose evil, then no one would EVER get TRUTH and would therefore never get the help they need.

At least by KNOWING THE TRUTH, Rob can now get help. [and I have invited him here and sent him the phone # of a male BS]


And what in the he11 "principle" is that? Aiding and abetting chronic lies and adultery from Jen by ensuring her victim doesn't get the truth? You call that a "principle?" Here in Texas we do not call it a "principle" to enable evil, but a moral failing.


Both of you are on here gunning for a fight and desperately trying to fan some more flames. And I wonder why? Seems like you should be HAPPY that Rob knows now about Jen's affair so that recovery can begin. Imagine my surprise to see that you are actually ANGRY that this has happened. That sure gives credence to those who say that many folks on Idiotville were not friends at all, but ENABLERS. I see that clearly in your posts and saw it in Tucktummy's. Seems as if they were right, huh?

LINY

I've felt spat upon by other posters when I was offering to help them ... but just because I felt that way ...doesn't make it factual.

Mel may have tossed the stone that begins the ripple that leads toward a wonderful recovery for Rob & Jen ... but she certainly is not responsible if there is no recovery.

Glad you are still happily married Liny. Really glad.

Pep

Did you not self-appoint yourself to expose to Rob, where it was NOT IN YOUR PLACE TO DO SO? This wasn't an act of kindness--it was an act of martyrdom.

So, "if" you did not get the response you did from Rob (I can only assume by the thread), then were you prepared for some of the other reactions that you just threw yourself in the middle of? I will answer: NO! And we're not talking about your "neighbor" who lives right next door to you! You were a full 1/2 planet away from her!

The truth should ALWAYS be told. But to go out of your way, meddling in something that was NOT in your place to do so, and not thinking of the full picture, was irresponsible. And don't twist my words and say that, "well LINY said, 'Telling the truth is irresponsible.'" You did not look at the full picture. You did not think of consequences. And you could have put Jen in a very compromsing position. But, what do yo care: you told the truth.

Once again, a real warped analogy, where the law has been broken and a child can't defend itself. (Hmmm...Will your response be, "Well how could he defend himself if he doesn't know?" Not your place. And neither Jen nor Rob is a child and no civilian law was broken

I was going to ask you what this means, but it really doesn't matter: you are right and I am wrong. You did a good deed for society, everybody's happy for YOU, and the truth has been told, so I should just shut up, right?

Maybe I read this wrong or you used a word you really didn't mean to use, but, haven't you just contradicted your views on the "victim?"

So, now does this mean Jen is now a FWS? It certainly sounds like it from everyones' posts. And now that he knows, guess your job is done, huh? Who is going to support THEM rebuilding their marriage? You've written Jen off in that sentence. I certainly hope you didn't mean to say this, but would you like to know how I read this sentence? "Jen, you ****** ******. You ****** up again. You don't need help, only Rob does. I have written you off." And this is the tone that many WS AND FWS are faced with on MB. Not one mention of Jen getting help. She needs it more! She's the one who caused this mess!

The general principle that it's not in your timing. The general principle that what works for one doesn't work for another. The general principle that there are grey areas in life. The general principle that YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT IS BEST FOR EVERYONE!

You don't kow me, you never have, I'm sure you don't care to, so I ask you: please tell me how I, or anyone else on MB, has aided and abetted her adultery? And not to have Rob get the truth? Ridiculous, Mel. Warped.

I refuse to get sucked into your twisting of things any longer. If you want to believe that I or anybody else supported her NOT to tell Rob you are disgustingly mistaken and I will not have any part of your warped thinking.

Angry that Rob knows? Not at all. Happy? GFlad he knows and they can start once again on recovery--if they so chose to do so. Which is my point: It wasn't a choice for you to make. Just confused and angry with you and everyone who supported you in doing what you did. And how did I know Idiotville would somehow be brought into this? Please, explain how ANYBODY enabled her? I support HER; not her action.

Once again, I end it here. Once again, you're right, and someone else is wrong. Once again, you are above it all and I know nothing.

All the best to you.
LINY

LINY... I don't know you or you situation... but you come across as an angry nasty woman. Did you not happen to catch where Melody thanked Jen and said she had not only not told her H but that she was herself in danger due to her drinking. She went on to say that she never thought she would muster the courage to do so. Get off your high horse and shove your attitude. ML was a friend to that M and to both Rob and jen as individuals. You are rude beyond belief.

You're right, Pep. It's all about perception. And to a newbie looking for help, it's a confusing and almost degrading place to be--even more so than the position that they already put themself in.

Thank you. We are, with many obstacles ahead. But this is life, which I just made that much more difficult. For the record, I just somehow don't believe that that was sincere. Just my perception, though.

Blessing, paryers, and good fortune.
LINY

Thanks for pointing me to clarification, LINY. Very appreciated.

What I still wonder is why FAA fails to see the folks who did support Jen in a supportive, caring and very respectful manner, such as myself, that were vigilent in encouraging her to tell Rob. No where in FAA's post does she acknowledge that was done, and only sights what she perceives as the bad and attacks upon Jen.

There WERE people that did not agree with Jen's failure to diclose to Rob, but still remained respectful of her as a human being.

If you want to see only bad, then thats what you're going to see.

Jo

You have a good point, resilient. However--just as in Mel's last post to me--don' tell me that I was enabling her! (and I don't mean you.)
There were many who supported--and gave her a few whacks. She needed it. But to DO it for her? I'm sorry--the line was crossed.

and mk...doesn't matter of my gender or my situation or what label I have been branded: no, I am not an "angry" person, but I am "angry" over how exposure was done and maybe where the "anger" came from is that nobody appeared to have a problem with this. Actually, I'm over it already. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

As it was 2 years ago and two days ago and 2 days from now, Jen needs our help and support.

Mel, I don't come to GQ much, but on Recovery your couragious act was alluded to. So of course I had to check it out. I got off of the Kiwi drama train at least a week ago because frankly there wasn't anything left to say. There was the "tell the truth Jen " camp, and then there was the "poor Jen is being so persecuted" camp.

LINY wrote:

"Angry that Rob knows? Not at all. Happy? GFlad he knows and they can start once again on recovery--if they so chose to do so. Which is my point: It wasn't a choice for you to make. Just confused and angry with you and everyone who supported you in doing what you did. And how did I know Idiotville would somehow be brought into this? Please, explain how ANYBODY enabled her? I support HER; not her action."

And what would have been an appropriate time to support HER, and not her action? Another week? Maybe a few more months? Maybe a year? Maybe never? Hear what Jen herself is saying! The woman is grateful her H now knows. She is admitting she would never have told him. She has been blunting her pain caused by her deception by drinking. Any intimacy in her M would have been slowly sucked out of it if the truth had remained hidden. If one of my good friends in the real world chose to have an A and didn't tell her H, at the very least I wouldn't be hanging out with her until she came clean. I choose to surround myself with people who are at least trying to live there lives in a healthy way with integrity. Jen was paralyzed by her lies. And PLEASE, let's not forget that she herself chose to bring this situation to MB.

Mel, you've got guts and I am so proud of you, and grateful to have your wisdom here on MB. Truthfully I probably wouldn't have had the balls to do what you did. Now I believe there is a chance for healing to occur. Maybe you have to be a BS to understand the magnitude of being lied to and having our choices taken away from us. Especially for a 2nd time! Sending you a big Ohio hug you Texas Mama you! I can only imagine the Texas twang and Aussie accent intermiggling.

Jen, I truly am wishing you and Rob healing. Maybe now you can figure out why you went down this destructive path. Sending you both hugs! CV