last night H asked me about IC, i told him about session, it was mostly information giving session. getting her up to speed on not only the past year, since we last saw her, but also more info about the affair. after telling H that he says i have had a thought. i must admit somehow i thought it was going to be a good thought. he says, i really am feeling very strong now about how much i dislike your 2 sisters and your mom now. the sister closet to me being the one he has the biggest problem with. that one i can understand more, she knew about the A from the onset and did not try to stop it, if anything she helped me justify it. but given where she was coming from... with an alcoholic husband, my dad's death shaking her up too, she also had a chatting habit (before me, that is where i got the idea), she also had a "side" friend. her story was much different though, she also had an alcoholic/abusive H. she has since left him, it took a year for the divorce to go thru, it was very hard, we had to literally show up one morning with a truck and get her out while he was at work, my H helped. she is now dating and is doing well. i can understand H having a very hard time about that sister. there has already been one scenerio where i was going to do something for sister (go to court again, xH is not following divorce decree) my H asked me not to go, does not see me helping sister and i said ok, i won't and i was not mad about it, i totally respected his need. my mom went instead, it was fine.

i am rambling. H is also not liking my mom anymore, she knew of affair. when we went to retrouvaille, she watched kids one of the days, she knew marriage was in trouble and asked if H had an A. I did not want her thinking it was H that did, i told her i had one. she always thought it was over, she never knew it started up again. she was disappointed in me. H is mad at her for even thinking he had one.

my other sister, he is mad at because he remembers that she made a comment once to me that i told him about because it upset me, she made reference to the fact that my marriage was in such bad shape. she does not know of A. that sister is very mentally unstable, hospitalized many times, shock treatment twice. she is difficult to like at her best. but H reason to dislike her now seems a bit of a stretch to me.

the bottomline, he no longer likes my family (my brother was not even mentioned)

the point is, one of our big problems was that H has never liked my family and was always highly critical of them and i took it personally, afterall, they are MY FAMILY and i am theirs, not liking them is not liking a big part of me. during MC, that was all talked about and H understood the damage caused by being so hard on family. he never realized how personally i took it. he had become much nicer towards family. he finally understood how much they meant to me and accepted that was all that was important.

now he is back to not liking them and he says he has no thoughts on that changing.

two very big things that hurt the M prior to all this, his view on my family being a deep seeded one and the kissing thing being the one that "broke the camals back" he is now back to doing, this time he feels he is totally justified in doing both of these things, and how can i argue with him.

i woke up crying this morning, iwas half awake, half asleep, not really thinking but thoughts floating around and i woke myself up because i started crying outloud. H woke and put his arm around me, said nothing, fell back asleep, as i sat up he rubbed my back but still said nothing, i am now ready for work and about to take off.

i have been praying, for God to help me release this pain. i guess it has helped some, but i still feel so down.

at IC i talked about how i just don't care about myself much these days, i don't feel suicidal but i really don't care if i live a long life or not, in fact if anything, i hope i don't. deep down i have no intention of taking good care of myself, that is why exercise has been so hard to get back into. she told me to just do it, every day to at least walk. i did last night, i don't know how i am going to today, but i will try.

i guess i have no question, just needed to get all that out... thanks for listening.

<small>[ May 28, 2004, 07:31 AM: Message edited by: FinallyLearning ]</small>

FL,

So sorry you're having such a hard time now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

It sounds to me as if your H is still dealing with the betrayal. For a BS, the knowledge of an A is very difficult, but even more difficult is knowing that those people the BS trusts are capable of huge deceptions. Your H is grappling with all that right now, and it really does take a long time.

If he were trying to come to terms with *you* having deceived him, I'd say that over time, as you exhibit honest, open, trustworthy actions that match your words, his trust in you will be restored. With your family members, I'm not sure. I guess it depends on them, and whether he and they ever air it all out.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">two very big things that hurt the M prior to all this, his view on my family being a deep seeded one and the kissing thing being the one that "broke the camals back" he is now back to doing, this time he feels he is totally justified in doing both of these things, and how can i argue with him.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He's not justified. He's hurt, he's wondering why he should bother. He's telling himself that he tried before, and look where it got him. That's flawed logic. A more accurate view would be for him to realize that his ability to change his attitude toward your family, and the kissing, were part of what turned everything around. Not only did it bring you back from the brink of divorce, but it made you willing to open yourself completely to him.

I know you've been telling him this message a lot - it's HIS efforts that turned everything around. Keep on broadcasting it, and he will eventually hear it.

i would get another IC session soon. the first one tends to be like you said more of getting the C up to speed. but now that she is you can start to work more on you.

you can't go wrong honey w/prayer. i'm not sure what to say about your situation because i'm the BS. i'm also not someone to say whether they should stay away from your family in a situation such as yours. maybe one way to handle the situation is just to respect your H's opinion and tread carefully now in your interactions w/your H and your family. if you continue to heal yourself and follow your words w/your actions, w/God's grace, your H will eventually turn around w/how he feels about your family. but maybe you also need to consider that you are M and what the Bible says about that in dealing w/extraneous issues (family, IL's, finances, etc.).

like i said, i'm the BS so it's hard for me to advise you to a certain extent and i know you are just doing some venting here. this is not to sound harsh and i will turn it around but we do reap what we sow and if you want your M to work then you have got to keep that in mind and maybe you just can't have the relationship you want w/your family right now. but also if you continue working on yourself and doing what right and cherishing your husband, you will also reap that sowing. does that make sense? we can't change the past but God can do so much for us in the future. you have taken great strides in your R w/your H and God and just keep up the good work.

write down some notes about the conversation you had w/your H after your counseling session so that you can discuss it at your next session. maybe ask your C how to deal w/questions from your H about your sessions. as always prayers to you.

FL-

In the short time that I have been a member here your words have helped me so much. I wish I could return the favor.

One thing you said:

at IC i talked about how i just don't care about myself much these days, i don't feel suicidal but i really don't care if i live a long life or not, in fact if anything, i hope i don't.

This is why exercise, at least walking, is so important for you right now - both mentally & physically. My C told me that, aside from being good for you, it helps keep depression from setting in.

I know EXACTLY how you feel right now, but exercise will help YOU feel better. If you feel better you will feel better about YOU. If you feel better about you, you will feel better about persevering through this difficult time.

I hope your above quote was out of frustration. If your goal is to be happier than ever with your H - I’m sure he would want you to stick around.

Good luck!

FL,these feelings will pass. Life isn't over. This is a very bad chapter and you and husband must learn from it. But he does need some time. Things can and do change. When I gambled my W's family thought I was the lowest piece of dirt but now that I am standing by W and they see what she is doing they are very impressed with me. That is satisfying. Conversely my W constantly criticizes my family. I don't take it personally and feel that it says more about her than about my family. Your husband is just looking to asign blame and needs to spread it around. He love's you too much to place it all on you. The sequence you explained in bed speaks volumes. Nothing needs to be said. That back rub or hand touching says it all. He is trying and the love is there. It just that we don't know what our response is SUPPOSED to be. We want to wash this all away and pretend it never happened and hug you and put a bandaid on it. But somewhere deep down we know we're supposed to be REALLY pissed off at the wrong thats been done to us. So somewhere in the middle is the truth. More patience is needed.

Right now I loathe the people who knew about the A and didn't tell me - more than anyone else. I feel that everyone who knew of A and didn't tell me enabled and endorsed the affair. They weren't addicted to the affair. They were not in any type of fog and when they saw the threat to my family they did nothing.

People who know of the A and do nothing are letting their friends or loved ones hurt themselves, each other, and entire families. All because they have decided it wasn't their place to get involved. I want people in my life who are going to help me, even if it means going against me. If I was going to drive drunk, the better friend would take my keys away regardless of the size of my temper tantrum.

I hope I don't always loathe these non informants, but to me right now it seems like everyone was willing to let me be hurt. No one felt I was important enough to KNOW.

Are there things your family did to try to help your marriage during the A that your BH doesn't know about? Share if your family was mad at you for hurting such a great guy. Focus on how much they helped you end the A or on how you down-played your A to them. Does your family love, respect, and care for your BH? Tell him why they do.

hi again,

driving into work, i managed to really feel better, i listened to christian music and then i just let the car be quite and i prayed. i prayed for H's healing, I released my pain into God's hands, I forgave the hurts caused by my H's current actions. i think about how i will tell my H that yes, i woke up sad but i am ok now, he does not have to worry. i realized as i was pulling into the parking lot that i wished i had given H a kiss on the forehead before leaving. once i got to the parking lot i wrote in our journal. I thanked him for putting his arm around me, I told him I loved him and cared. and i wrote out a prayer asking God to send him peace and comfort. putting our marriage into His hands. praying that one day our marriage will become of testimony of love.

and i felt so much calmer and peaceful. even while driving, i figure some of you must of been praying for me too because i was not getting lost in despair.

and then i sit down here, read the responses here and the phone rings, it is H, asking how i was, i say a quick fine and ask if son got off to school ok. we keep it cordial and on safe ground. i do thank him for putting his arm around me. i hang up and then tears flow again. and i just want to let myself cry for hours. my heart just cannot take this. but i know i cannot do that, so i once again go back to prayer, asking for strength to get thru the day. i wish i could just go home and be with H. i called him back to tell him that i was sorry i did not give him a kiss before leaving, he says he always likes those. i tell him i love him, he says he loves me too.

turtlehead,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> it's HIS efforts that turned everything around. Keep on broadcasting it, and he will eventually hear it.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">thanks for the reminder... i will make sure i slip that message in again this weekend. i do believe once that message sinks in, it will bring him comfort.

RR, next IC session is next thurs. i am sadden to think how far back all this has put us. I can respect H need to stay away from my family for now but i know it cannot be a long term thing. my siblings are no where near perfect but we are very tight, we love each other very much, our childhood was so hard i think it made us closer than most siblings. H never understood that until he saw how we comforted and leaned on each other so much when dad was sick and then died. my brother organized a private church service just for us and our kids (H did not attend, he was out of town, i know he would of been there otherwise, it was just very unfortunate timing).

H has one older brother, he moved 5hrs away to go to college and ended up settling down our there. we see them a few times a year and they are friendly to each other but sometimes i think my H wishes they were closer. H's family was never the type to show emotions. his dad did though, at least he very much did towards me, he told me so many times how happy he was that i was his daughter in law, thoughts of his dad still bring me such wonderful feelings, he did not know details but he was aware of the bad relationship between my parents (dad/stepmom/mom) and me. he was always so loving towards me, i was so sad when he died and yet i still feel his love in my heart, it was truely an unconditional love.

robby, thanks for the post. i am glad to hear my words have helped you. with all the pain i have caused my H, it helpful for me to bring others help here. so thanks for needing the help <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

i will find a time to exercise today, even if it is just a walk.

woe,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That back rub or hand touching says it all. He is trying and the love is there. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">thanks for pointing that out, it helped emensly. the other stuff you said makes sense too, i think you are right on the money, he wants to love me but he doesn't know what to do with the anger he needs to feel too. any thoughts on how i can help him with that?? oh wait, i guess you told me: More patience is needed

loy,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I hope I don't always loathe these non informants, but to me right now it seems like everyone was willing to let me be hurt. No one felt I was important enough to KNOW.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i think if my H posted here, this is exactly what he would be saying too.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Are there things your family did to try to help your marriage during the A that your BH doesn't know about? Share if your family was mad at you for hurting such a great guy. Focus on how much they helped you end the A or on how you down-played your A to them. Does your family love, respect, and care for your BH? Tell him why they do.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i will reflect on those questions and do my best to share those thoughts with my H. thanks for the idea.

love to you all.

No doubt this will be a very unpopular response to your post, but as you know i've been following your story and don't agree with the way your H is treating you...A or no A, you are his wife..his equal and I'm sorry, but it sounds like even though he is trying, he is also getting used to your 'doormat' status..ie, he gets the sex - you don't, he doesn't kiss you even though you need that - now he is deciding he doesn't like your family?
FL, you are trying so hard I know...and I know there is making up to do on your part for your A...but when does it end? I personally would tell him that he has his right to his opinion about your family, but they are your family..the ones who have been and will be there for you till the end, if he doesn't like them..well he's just going to have to get over it because they are there to stay and you expect him to at least respect them in your presence and theirs!

FL, your exchanges, even this morning, seem very similar to me and W. Today she was in a pisser and I couldn't do much to help just give her space. A couple hours later she called to apologize. No I love you's, just an apology. Well W never apologizes for anything, so that apology is an "I love you". Just like your husband's call. Look and appreciate all those signs. It is there. My IC tried to tell me that W and I aren't connected only dependent on each other. Like addicted vs connected. I really thought about it and am convinced he is wrong. W and I can't seem to discuss anything. Part conflict avoiding part something else. But you know what we are so connected. We absolutely finish each other sentences and instintively know what eachother needs. Your H knew you needed to hear from him this morning. Men just can't say the words. I suppose part of the problem on your end is different time tables. You are so ready for the healing and husband may just be beginning the journey.

FL, again I think you need to change your glasses. I'm not saying you're expecting too much I saying it's already there you're just not seeing it. Just keep doing what your doing and don't put so much pressure on yourself. This is truly a new beginning for you and husband. Please don't ever think I'm suggesting you are ungrateful or expect too much. I'm not saying that at all. I just want to encourage you to see the beauty in the small things.

FL,
Thanks for sharing your journey with others here. RR, Loy and WOE all have very good comments. I do agree with Dreamcatcher to the extent that he should not be doing those things to intentionally hurt you. But you know what, when he comes out of his anger, he will be sorry for his behavior. So there is very little you can do right now except endure it for a time. I see him softening. He called you b/c he cares about you and loves you, he just won't say how much right now.

You are growing and God is leading that growth. I gonna point out somthing, did you notice your response when you were feeling pain? Where did you go? You went to God and prayer. You chose the right path! That is a sign of growth and change. In the past, where did you go? It is victory for you and that brings joy to my heart. Remember that God uses the pain in our lives to bring us closer to Him. When you pray for Him to release you from the pain, don't be suprised if He does not answer that prayer in the way you want Him to do. He is using this circumstance to mold and shape you and when you respond by going to Him, God is pleased by your response. He is overjoyed!.

Just for encouragement, I got an anniversary card from my W that expressed her love for me. This is the first time in a long, long time that anything like this has happened. Anything I did receive expressed her appreciation of my love for her. Last year I did not get a card or even and acknowledgement. Recovery is slow and painful, but the pain is worth the reward.

FL, I hope you have a good weekend and pray that God gives you opportunities to show your H the love you feel for him. God will do the healing.

Christ's Love,
Roman

dreamcatcher,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> No doubt this will be a very unpopular response to your post, but as you know i've been following your story and don't agree with the way your H is treating you...A or no A, you are his wife..his equal and I'm sorry, but it sounds like even though he is trying, he is also getting used to your 'doormat' status..ie, he gets the sex - you don't, he doesn't kiss you even though you need that - now he is deciding he doesn't like your family?
FL, you are trying so hard I know...and I know there is making up to do on your part for your A...but when does it end? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">not yet, but i am hanging onto the hope that it will. i very much appreciate your post, i am blessed to have this board, it gives me the comfort right now and the strength to hold out until our M can finally start going uphill again. i know i get down and i post about how i am hurting which unfortunately has to include H's actions, keep reading dreamcatcher, one day i hope to only post success msgs here <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

FL, I just posted the same time you did. Roman

woe,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You are so ready for the healing and husband may just be beginning the journey.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">yes, this is very true, i really do try to keep that in mind.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
FL, again I think you need to change your glasses. I'm not saying you're expecting too much I saying it's already there you're just not seeing it. Just keep doing what your doing and don't put so much pressure on yourself. This is truly a new beginning for you and husband. Please don't ever think I'm suggesting you are ungrateful or expect too much. I'm not saying that at all. I just want to encourage you to see the beauty in the small things.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">being able to share my burden here really does help me to do this. if it were not for the support here, and for all i have learned here which includes growth in my spiritual life, i would be a mess right now and i would not be able to recover for days.

i'm not dancing over here but i am coping again <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> thanks everyone.

roman, i almost missed your post!! even with your second post <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> did you notice your response when you were feeling pain? Where did you go? You went to God and prayer </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">yes i did, pretty cool huh? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It is victory for you and that brings joy to my heart. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">me too, thanks for celebrating that with me </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I got an anniversary card from my W that expressed her love for me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">that is WONDERFUL!!! happy anniversary to you both, is your anniversary today? how many years? i hope you have a wonderful time together celebrating your love for each other. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> FL, I hope you have a good weekend and pray that God gives you opportunities to show your H the love you feel for him. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">same to you and i will keep a sharp eye open for those opportunities <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

FL, i kind of had a similar conversation w/my mom last night. well i tried to but i kept getting choked up. i say that because i just couldn't even begin to convey the feeling i have right now about what God has done inside my heart. every time i even try to think of trying to put it into words i can't,i just cry. it's not tears of sadness but just tears of being filled w/the Holy spirit. my mom said, that i didn't have to explain that because she has had similar feelings, that she understands and agrees that it's just difficult to explain the total emotional peace, joy, and comfort you get from God.

i'm not saying that there won't be difficult times to come and that i won't have bad days because those things were never promised to us. but like you said, imagine what we would be like if we didn't have God?! i just can't imagine other people going through these things, whether they are a BS or WS and not have a R w/God. but anyway, continue what you are doing, things take time, and it is just a matter of time before you and your husband are full into recovery. keep going to God, there is no limit on how many times you can pray (thank goodness). he is always there and always has his hand on your shoulder or is holding you in his arms.

God bless and prayers to you.