KYellow,

BTW, earlier I was going to abbreviate your name but decided against it. KY anyone? LOL. Sorry. I know I need to be more mature. OK I'm holding it in.

cwmac <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

CW - (whisper) I already made the KY joke further up the page (whisper).

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Sorry, KYellow we are being very immature about your name. It is certainly not meant to be offensive in any way. The humour on this board has got me through many, many a bad day.

Jenny

<small>[ May 31, 2004, 04:22 PM: Message edited by: KiwiJ ]</small>

cwmac
About that book..... BTW I'm thinking of changing my name to Kyellowjelly, would that make it harder for people to respond. And about that maturity thing, I'm still cracking up because you said twice in your post "superior sex organ" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

My H is a very manly man, so this hits the nail on the head, this out take from the book. It makes me feel so bad for him. I L my H very much.

Yes, OM and H were quite close. Very close.

Jenny, I wish I would have said something as well. My H would have blown me off, I'm sure, or not bothered to listen, he didn't hear me even speak the 9 years before.

H was getting lots of SF from me, and I told him it was because of OM filling my EN, he loved it at that point.

I told him at one point to give me more, I was worried. He did, for one day, then he started ignoring me again. I was weak and all ready attached. I then justified to myself, I tried to tell him, I warned him.

I should have tried harder, for the sake of my M. I wish I would have sat him down. Why, why, didn't I. I'm stuck in wanting to change the past. UGH!!!!

Jenny, did it sneak up on you?? I was so shocked when I finally realized how involved I was.

Now I'm thread Jacking myself. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

kiwi,

I just read your post abut STW. I need something. I'm going to try it. Seriously, you have had no side affects? I suffer with Insomnia, and everything keeps me awake, so I stay away from all drugs.

KY

Darn it, I just wrote a wonderfully articulate post <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> and it told me I wasn't logged in. I WAS.

It was all about the A sneaking up on me and now I can't remember what I said. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I would be very wary about telling someone who is already on AD's to change without consulting their Dr but if you're not on anything already I can't see that it would hurt to try the SJW.

Seriously, no side effects and I feel REALLY good.

Jenny

KY and KiwiJ,

Just finished a monumental post and of course accidenttally deleted it. Oh, well. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

First of all, IMHO you can never have too many KY references. lol. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> And about that maturity thing, I'm still cracking up because you said twice in your post "superior sex organ" </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Again that was a direct quote out of “Tempted Women” Just trying to be accurate and scholarly. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Quote:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> OM and H were quite close. Very close. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That’s unfortunate because that makes the betrayal even harder. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Because of the friendship I can see how your H felt…

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> why didn't he come to me and say, I have feelings for your W, I need to step back from your family. He says any noble man would have. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My guess is that it may be twice as hard for your H bc he’s dealing with your betrayal as well as best friend's.

KiwiJ said…

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">H feels it goes against everything men have between each other - "the man code". You just DON'T touch another man's wife. H feels so strongly about this. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree with the above statement but only in the case of a close personal friend or relative. I disagree that most men feel as above except in the instance of a close personal friend.

and

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It also seems to me that the women are much angrier with their H's than the men are with their wives. I think it's probably the gender thing in reverse. Perhaps they think that because they are men they did make the first move. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Men know how other men think and we know how often they think about “it”. We should almost know better. I realize warning the wives about this is futile because they are naive about men's motives and will just say that we're jealous.

I was angry with OM but not nearly as much as the anger I had towards my W.

In my case, the OM wasn’t my friend. We knew each other but only thru my W’s place of employment when she was single. (They worked together) What did he owe me? IMHO nothing.

Putting myself in his shoes, I probably would have reacted the same way. If a married woman approached me wanting to renew a friendship and that friendship started to show signs that she was becoming emotionally attached. I’d have a hard time saying “no.”

Sure it snuck up on her but she didn’t lose all rational thought despite what people say here about the fog. I don't think it sneaks up on the OM as much. I do think they are more pre-meditated about it whether consciously or not.

That's the reason I was angry at the other man he pretended to have noble interests. This of course ran a little contrary to the fact that he had a wife and two young children.

I guess I’ve just been conditioned by my upbringing and experience to believe that most men including friends may not be able to be completely trusted. On the other hand, I believe that women are the “gatekeepers”. I won’t finish my conclusion on that score.

Didn’t mean to hurt any feelings.

cwmac

The opinions in this post are the opinions of cwmac and cwmac alone. Marriage Builders and its affiliates can not be held responsible nor liable for this maniac’s opinions

<small>[ May 31, 2004, 06:45 PM: Message edited by: cwmac ]</small>

CW, is that your new signature line? Is it going to show up on all your posts?

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

H also believes very strongly that women are the "gatekeepers". Don't you think though CW, this is just less hurtful to think than to think I could have been a willing participant right from the start?

Jenny

KiwiJ
Not sure I followed your last question. Can you clarify comment about gatekeeper and willing participant.

As far as the disclaimer, yes. Partly for fun partly bc I'm a little tired of people reading malintent when it's not warranted. This way they'll know I'm nuts and leave me alone. (Kinda like the preacher in The Last of the Mohicans) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

cwmac

The opinions in this post are the opinions of cwmac and cwmac alone. Marriage Builders and its affiliates can not be held responsible nor liable for this maniac’s opinions.

Kiwi & CW

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Darn it, I just wrote a wonderfully articulate post and it told me I wasn't logged in. I WAS.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">and

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Just finished a monumental post and of course accidenttally deleted it.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do you two really expect me to
believe that crap???? I have read your other post. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

(HARD CORE HUMOR, HOPE YOU CAN HANDLE IT)

Jenny, I'm getting me some SJW.... I'm so down, for what ever reason. My H told me tonight he feels I love him less than ever. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> How sad is that? It isn't true, I'm just unable to be happy.

CW - My H even warned me about OM, I thought I had everything in control. I knew OM was having a rough M, I was just helping, trying to listen, be a good friend, and BAM!!

I do think you are right, I think OM, did have motives, the entire time. I thought - what a
beautiful friendship, NOT! Tonight is the 1st I have realized that.

Also CW, your closing statement, is that something MB made you add??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

ooooohh Jenny, I think My H doesn't want to think of me as a willing particpant at all. You are on to something.

KY <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

KY,
Really, long posts do at times get lost ( especially when you get logged out in the middle of typing) If you ever want to post something long type it on word/works and cut and paste.

Yes Dr Harley the man himself e-mailed me and said that his attorney's were looking at all of my evil, negative posts. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

cwmac

<small>[ May 31, 2004, 07:57 PM: Message edited by: cwmac ]</small>

KY

Quote:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My H even warned me about OM, I thought I had everything in control. I knew OM was having a rough M, I was just helping, trying to listen, be a good friend, and BAM!! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Married women tend to think married OM are safe to be friends with, especially if they are your H's best friend. Unfortunately not true.

cwmac

That was so strange that CW and I both wrote posts and they went AWOL. It's true I really did write a post and it said I "hadn't filled in my name" and the whole thing just disappeared.

CW, I'll try to make it clearer. (I hope). Muddled logic? Female brain?

If the woman is the gatekeeper and is "seduced" by love, romance whatever, then from a man's point of view that is understandable and (almost) forgivable. But if the woman is the pursuer and a very willing participant then that makes it much harder to accept. I wasn't the pursuer as such but I made it very clear to OM that it would probably go as far as it could. i.e. we would eventually have sex. And like KYellow's H, my H would rather not think about me being a willing participant at all.

Geez, is that any clearer - I don't think it is even to me and I wrote it!

Jenny

PS CW I hope the Harley's mentioned your disgusting obsenity. (Or was that my disgusting obsenity). I thought that's why you'd put "superior sexual organ" instead of....oops better not go there.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

KYellow, we do seem to be in a similar place. Do try the SJW. It can only help surely.

Jenny

<small>[ May 31, 2004, 08:13 PM: Message edited by: KiwiJ ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Men know how other men think and we know how often they think about “it”. We should almost know better. I realize warning the wives about this is futile because they are naive about men's motives and will just say that we're jealous.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is word for word what H said to me. Especially being naive about men's motives. I did listen to him, but only after the event. I still find it hard to accept that it wasn't true luuurrve on OM's part even though ALL evidence points to the contrary. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> And that's not fog talking, that's a normal human reaction to being used.

BTW, some women think about "it" a lot too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

But, seriously, it's becoming very obvious from everything I read here - we sure do think about "it" differently from men.

Jenny

I'm sure there are W for whom the sex is the primary factor however based upon my readings in print as well as here on the MB board I believe that the emotional connection is the primary basis for the relationship.

In a way the sex is a reward to the OM for meeting your long lost emotional needs. Guess some men are smarter thjan others. Took my W's affair for me to figure this one out.

I also think the sex is a bit of revenge towards the sluggardly H.

cwmac

BTW, my point on the "gatekeeper" monicker is that whether romanced or whether a willing participant, I see the woman as having the final say.

again just my societal conditioning at play here.

cwmac

<small>[ May 31, 2004, 09:51 PM: Message edited by: cwmac ]</small>

CW & Kiwi
I just typed you the most brilliant piece, it was publishable, but it didn't go through. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> So I guess you get the babble instead.

CW - I agree with the gatekeeper anology, I also agree that the gate flies open when EN are fulfilled. As a reward so to speak as you said. It came natural, especially when you are feeling so darn loved.

I really thought OM was safe. I'm shocked at the fact that he and I didn't even discuss where it was going. We didn't even say, wow, this is getting scary, nothing like that. I'm still so disappointed with myself.

Kiwi, My H is on a mission today to find me some SJW. He is all about what ever is going to make me happy. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Kiwi, did you, do you think it was true love for you??? You mentioned you would like to think it was for him????

If you would have asked me in the middle of my A I would have said yes, I love this OM, but now I know I was using him, he was using me. Sad, but true.

KY,
True love is a decision. It usually comes after the infatuation or "in love" stage.

The "in love" stage is just caused by chemicals released in your brain. Endorphines and the like. Most scientists would tell you that most of this is happening in a human's "old" brain ie the part that has the same instinctual thoughts as any other animal. "I see another attractive animal. Let's mate"

Our decision making abilities occur in our "new" brain. This is where we logically distinguish ourselves over the beasts. This is where the decision to love occurs after the initial lust wears off.

Your helpful librarian ( <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> )would suggest "The Road Less Travelled" for a good description of these two very different processes.

Your question...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Kiwi, did you, do you think it was true love for you??? You mentioned you would like to think it was for him???? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Based upon a few of my threads that she's responded to I probably could but I'll let KiwiJ respond.

Have you posted anywhere the specifics of DDay? Are you still in withdrawal? Did your H suspect or was he told "cold?"

My best,

cwmac <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Good morning Sir, by sir that means I think I'm much younger than you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I see you as a wise old owl. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Okay, maybe it is just because you seem so much smarter and I use Sir out of respect.

I told my H cold, he was clueless. We are 3 months after DDAY. I sat him down to tell him, because OM wasn't leaving me alone.

I needed to expose it, so he would not be able to have contact with me. It was getting a little stalkish, is that a word????

My H instantly protected me, well not instantly, but after the outburst, than he protected me.

I would say I'm not in withdrawals. Sometimes when I'm bored I want to talk to OM, but I think it is just a lonely factor, I would be happy to talk to anybody.

The drive to see and speak to him is no longer there.

I'm kind of thinking you might be a Scientist too.
KY