Things have been going so much better for my husband and me. I just returned from spending a week with him, and other than a rocky night at the beginning of the week, we had a wonderful time together.

Since returning home alone, however, I have been declining emotionally. I tried to stay busy, but whenever I wasn't engaged in an activity that demanded my complete attention, I thought about the Affair. Something kept niggling at the edges of my mind, telling me that something was up. There was more to this than I knew.

Sunday afternoon, I sat down to the computer and figured out how to access the OW's cell phone records (no private EYE this time - I saved $185!)

I wanted to confirm that the OW was still talking at all hours with her boss. Well, I confirmed that, but along with that came the news that she was also STILL CALLING MY HUSBAND until he left on his "sabbatical".

I called my husband, and he admitted that he had called her, also. Upon my pleading for complete honesty, he also admitted that they had been telling each other "I love you" right through that last call. That means, my dears, that all of my starry eyed posts of this last week, giving advice to all who would listen, etc. etc. were laughable! There's no fool like an old fool.

While I was putting everything I had into my marriage, and he was telling me how much he loved me and how he rarely gave her a thought, that she meant nothing to him, that he had never really loved her, and so on ad nauseum, they were calling each other to lament over the breakup of the affair, and to re-affirm their love to one another.

You may remember if you have read some of my threads, that I found out about her calling her married boss by hiring a private investigator to get one month of her cell phone bills. That very week, my husband seemed to finally take responsibility for the affair, without trying to blame anyone or anything else for his actions. Now I know that he was just pining away for her. I thought that he had suffered more than enough in worrying over "what he had done to her", so I decided to show him how broken hearted she really was: that she had already started talking to someone else! He said that this was like a slap in the face that woke him up. Perhaps that is so.That seems to have ended his calling her. Of course, I don't know that for sure, I have only his word, and right now, his words isn't worth much to me.

It scares me to think that if I had not followed my gut instincts and kept on digging, I would never have had any cell phone records to show him, and if I had not, he would still be calling her, and maybe, he would have started up with her again.

I feel so stupid all over again! I am SO NAIVE!!!
You would think that a woman of 53 would be a little smarter, wouldn't you?

I have always been trusting. My husband has teased me about that, and has always said that I am too ready to believe the best about people. I guess so.

Dear ones, this has set me back again. Our progress feels thwarted by this new knowledge. I am trying hard not to come down hard on him. At least he did tell me the truth when I asked, and hadn't told me until then because our therapist thought it best to postpone, but HE STILL DID WHAT HE DID, AND WE HAD AGREED THAT THERE WERE TO BE NO MORE CALLS. NO MORE CALLS.

Does anyone have a similar experience? What did you do? How did you handle it?

Do I just excuse it, saying that he was in withdrawal? Is this apt to happen again?

I am making us another appointment with our counselor. I can't handle this one on my own, I don't think.

I have taken to driving through the OW's work parking lot daily, and even thought of defacing her parking spot's sign that identifies her space with her name on it after hours. No, I won't, but I feel such a need for revenge right now, that I just want to DO something!

Meanwhile, I do feel in a way better, because I kept telling my husband that I didn't trust the OW, and that when I looked at her over these past months, she keeps her eyes down, but I saw a smirk on several occasions. That smirk was REAL!
That smirk was because she was probably thinking something like this: "You think this is over and you have won, but we are still talking, and he still loves me. You poor old thing. I'm 29 years younger than you. You can't compete with me. And the best part is, you don't know anything about it!"

And you know, she is EXACTLY right.
I feel sick.

<small>[ May 31, 2004, 07:03 PM: Message edited by: MARIE ELENA1 ]</small>

And how good of you to keep their secret for them. See, MarieElena, this could have all ended long ago if you had just blown the lid off this. Exposure would have put a quick end to this business.

There is no reason they can't continue, there are no consequences whatsoever. They will just have to be sneakier so you don't find out next time. They have done it before, they can do it again.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"You think this is over and you have won, but we are still talking, and he still loves me. You poor old thing. I'm 29 years younger than you. You can't compete with me. And the best part is, you don't know anything about it!"
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You could wipe that smirk off her face real quick, MarieElena. Have you ever heard the phrase "evil thrives when good men stand silent?" Launch the nuke, Marie Elena.

<small>[ May 31, 2004, 07:46 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

I concur. Exposure is part of the process that leads to recovery. Besides, you may want to call the boss' wife too...after all, you don't want to witness another marriage get torn apart do you??

Dear Melody Lane,
I know that you are well intentioned, and you are surely free to your own opinions, but if I had done (or do) what you suggest, although I would have stopped the affair, and gotten the vengence I seem to crave (I'm honest about that), there would also be some terrible consequences that would be worse than the affair as far as my mental and emotional well-being are concerned.

First of all, our church would be harmed. Many innocent people would be hurt. This is not just a job for us; it is much more than that. Even though my husband "blew it", he is human, and forgiveable as a leader. That's not an endorsement of sin, just an acknowledgement of his humanity.

Secondly, our family would be shamed beyond reason, and this is unfair when they are blameless. They could go nowhere in this small town without being whispered about and pointed out constantly. I will not do that to my girls.

Three, I don't think my husband could withstand it. As hard as it is to believe, I still love this man. I want to help him, not destroy him.

I realize that exposure is touted as a step in finishing the affair, and see the reasoning behind that. In some cases, I can see where telling a select few people might be advantageous, but "telling the world" seems extreme. I know that when my kids told me about other children who were mean to them when they were growing up, I was always surprised when they would patch things up between them and be friends again, while I would still be thinking what stinkers these kids were.

Once you tell something like this, it clouds future relationships if you ARE able to put the marriage back together. I don't want to be vindictive towards my husband, I just want to heal our marriage.

You may say, "but he deserves it...".
Well, that may be, but I'll let God deal with him in His own way. I'm sure that any punishment that God deems worthy will be MUCH more effective than anything I might concoct.

I do appreciate your input, though. I must respectfully say that I just don't agree with you on this point. Thank you for taking the time to respond.

Hi ((((((((MarieElena)))))))

I really have no advise I can give you, but I just wanted you to know I read your post and feel your pain.

I'm glad he told you the truth when you asked the question, but Geeeez......when is he gonna wake up?

You have done an amazing plan A, you have been strong and supportive of him through this entire ordeal, as well as that so have your daughters.

Me thinks its time you at least THREATENED to expose this mess to the church, even if you never intend to I would be telling him either get your head out of your butt and respect the effort that I have put in, or I will make it imposibble for the two of you to ever hold your heads up in this town again, we may be embarresed (you and the girls), but YOU and this HOMEWRECKER will have more that a tad embarrasement to contend with.

Let him believe you WILL do it hon,tell him this is the ballbreaker and you will no longer sit back and do everything to protect their precious little fling.

Do it today Marie, ring him now and tell him.

You are in my prayers.
mtheart

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MARIE ELENA1:
[QB] Dear Melody Lane,
I know that you are well intentioned, and you are surely free to your own opinions, but if I had done (or do) what you suggest, although I would have stopped the affair, and gotten the vengence I seem to crave (I'm honest about that), there would also be some terrible consequences that would be worse than the affair as far as my mental and emotional well-being are concerned.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, and there should be terrible consequences to terrible behavior, ME. That is the point. You are doing nothing more than protecting your H from the consequences of his behavior, which leaves him free to continue an inappropriate affair with one of HIS FLOCK. You protect his dirty little secret at the expense of his church.

You are PROTECTING him from the consequences of his behavior and doing your church and your family and your H a GRAVE DISSERVICE. You are helping them destroy your family by hiding their secret for them.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">First of all, our church would be harmed. Many innocent people would be hurt. This is not just a job for us; it is much more than that. Even though my husband "blew it", he is human, and forgiveable as a leader. That's not an endorsement of sin, just an acknowledgement of his humanity.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Marie, many innocents HAVE already been hurt and they continue to be hurt by your H's affair and the continued LIES. A pastor having an affair with the young daughter of a parisioner is very dangerous. EXPOSING that behavior is not what CAUSES that harm, it is what STOPS IT.

Truth is the SOLUTION to deceit, not more deceit.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Secondly, our family would be shamed beyond reason, and this is unfair when they are blameless. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So, this is about your PRIDE, rather than doing what is right? How shamed will you be WHEN [and I say WHEN because this WILL COME OUT] people find out that you helped HIDE this from this young girl's family and the church? THAT is what you should be very ashamed about. You SHOULD be ashamed.

And they will find out, Marie Elena. Twenty three old girls chatter............to everyone.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> They could go nowhere in this small town without being whispered about and pointed out constantly. I will not do that to my girls.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Instead you sit silently by while their father has affairs with their friends. That is what you DO to those girls. Instead of showing them how a COURAGEOUS GODLY woman should handle grossly inappropriate behavior, you teach them to how to hide the dirty secret so they are now accessories like you. You are all accessories to the crime.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Three, I don't think my husband could withstand it. As hard as it is to believe, I still love this man. I want to help him, not destroy him.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am sorry, but your H already did that when he chose to pursue an affair with a young girl in his church. It is his behavior that is destroying him. And you sit by idly while he continues to destroy himself, his church and this young girl.

And it will continue to destroy him if you sit idly by and make weak rationalizations for your lack of courage. Your lack of courage has only allowed this affair to continue.

Marie Elena, if you were the church, would you hire a pastor who had an adulterous affair with a 23 year old parisioner's daughter? Would you hire a pastor that lied to his family and cheated on his wife? Of course you wouldn't.

Because he would be an UNFIT pastor. And that is exactly what your H is, ME. He is an unfit pastor. He can't even lead himself, much less his flock.

His congregation has a RIGHT to know who he is. THEY should be the ones to decide if he is fit to continue to serve your church, don't you think?

You and your H are the LAST PEOPLE who are qualified to determine what is in the best interest of your church. Please don't compound his crimes by adding lying to the mix, tell your church what is going on, ME. Thier interests should be put before the selfish career interests of you and your H.

Tell the truth.

Dear MTHEART,
You have a devious mind... I like that in a person (unless they are having an affair).
I will keep that idea for future use if this goes on ANY FURTHER!

I just talked to him, and I think that I scared him good yesterday. We'll see. He is contrite. He has called me five times so far today. He comes home tomorrow, and I'll welcome him with open arms, but I'll keep both eyes and ears and anything else open that I can think of.

I will never again discount women's intuition. If I had ignored that inner urging, where would I be? Where would our relationship be headed???

You know, I believe that my "intuition" was really the Holy Spirit speaking to me. I'm not sharp enough to have done this on my own.

Yours is a terrific idea. If I find out ONE MORE SECRET CALL or WHATEVER about the two of them, I will threaten to blow the old whistle!

The only thing that saved him on this is that the therapist collaborated his story. She kept what he had written about the additional calls, etc. in his folder, dated, and I will get to read about them this week at our next session. Of course, he STILL made those calls, and we are going to have to deal with that, but I think this latest revelation has finally brought him out of the famous FOG. HE cried on the phone with me, and told me that telling me the truth was so hard to do, but that he had been carrying this guilt around with him for the past six weeks like a stone around his neck.

I'll let you know what happens. Thank you for caring! I always look for your posts because you have a level head on your shoulders (And, now I know that you are devious, too!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ).

I am going back on the attack. Enough rolling in my own pity. I'm feeling like J'Lo in "Enough" - without the knife and the kicking and all of that other stuff.

Marie

I am working on a way to tell the boss' wife.

This decision not to tell our church is not "career oriented". I know that nothing I can say will make you understand, so I won't attempt to other than to say you don't know the whole story.

My embarrassment? I am past caring about that. But my daughters? You bet I want to protect them, if I can. They are disgusted by this whole thing, as I am. They love their dad, and yet do realize the gravity of this situation.

In the past six weeks, he has really changed, if I can trust my famous "intuition" again. Of course, time will tell.

You may be right - this very well could be revealed. I talked with my husband about that, and he said that he can no longer live in fear about that. If it comes out, then it will be God's will, and we can't prevent it, even if we try. If that happens, he will take his lumps. If it doesn't happen, he is going to try to be the pastor, husband and father that God would be pleased with.

I can't add much to that idea.

I don't know any perfect people, and as I have read on this website, sometimes we begin to look at a person and think that they are just "about the affair", when in reality, this Affair is NOT who they are. Do we destroy people because they sin? Do we sit as judge and jury? Melody Lane, you have a good grasp on Scripture. You do know that the Bible also says, "Judge not, lest ye be judged." I also remember Jesus saying about the woman taken in adultery, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone".

Hey! Melodylane, you really helped me! I am defending my husband, even though he just about killed me emotionally. I care more for him than I realized. Thank you for pointing that out to me.

I intend to fight for my marriage, and I am not about to give up 32 years because of a one time "fling", if I can help it. We may not end up staying at this church. If that happens, I will be sad, but if we are still together, we'll make it through whatever the Lord has in store for us. You know, my faith was wavering. I wasn't counting God into this equation, and your reply has helped me to get my perspective back again. I was angry with you when I read what you had to say, and I apologize for that reaction. God used you to open my eyes up to what was really important in this. I will not return evil for evil. I will not turn a blind eye to it, either. I will deal with this situation as God leads me to. I will re-double my prayers and Bible reading, asking for Divine guidance in all that I do. If I do that, I am confident that the results will be what God would intend as far as my responsibilities go.
Thank you for your replies.
Marie

Marie, I am not sure what you are saying. Are you saying that you are not able to judge right from wrong? Or is it that you want me to stop saying uncomfortable things and you think taking Matthew 7:1 out of context will acheive that?

You and I both know that you are taking
Matthew 7:1 out of context. Of course it is not an admonition against judging, it is an admonition against hypocrisy. Please read the entire chapter, Marie. I know you know your Bible better than that.

Of course God expects us to judge right from wrong, He tells us this throughout the entire Bible. He tells us to judge with righteous judgement. And taking Matthew 7:1 out of context won't shut people up when they point out your H's wrongdoing.

And yes, we all know that no one is perfect. There is no such thing as a perfect pastor, however, that does not mean all men are FIT TO SERVE. Using that logic, then anyone is fit to serve, even Charles Manson. It does not mean that all pastors are corrupt and fallen and committed to a life of sin. Your H is committed to a path of adultery and DECEIT, Marie. This is not a fit person to lead a flock.

A pastor that preys on young girls in his congregation is simply not fit. And I seriously believe that her parents would want to know about this, don't you? As the mother of a 22 year old, I assure you I would be OUTRAGED if I found my pastor did this with my child and then lied to me about it. How do you even face her parents?

And don't other parents have a right to know who their pastor really is so they can have the option of leaving the church with their daughters?

<small>[ May 31, 2004, 10:02 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MARIE ELENA1:
<strong>God used you to open my eyes up to what was really important in this. I will not return evil for evil. I will not turn a blind eye to it, either. I will deal with this situation as God leads me to. I will re-double my prayers and Bible reading, asking for Divine guidance in all that I do. If I do that, I am confident that the results will be what God would intend as far as my responsibilities go.
Thank you for your replies.
Marie </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Marie, I think that is a great idea, however, I would suggest that exposing evil is not evil. A pastor preying on a young girl in his church is evil. Lies and a pattern of deceit are evil. Adultery is evil. Exposing those things is not evil, Marie. Hiding evil is evil.

Marie,

I have to go with Melody on this one. You are not "judging" or "returning evil for evil." You are refusing to condone corruption with your silence. You are refusing to take part in a cover-up. That's not "revenge," it's good sense.

You are getting into a manipulative trip of thinking you can control information -- "I'll THREATEN to tell" "I'll tell X but not Y." You are deluding yourself into thinking the power is in your hands. It isn't. For one thing, this info is already shared by H, OW and others, who can blow the lid when they want to. On their terms, and for their reasons.

Above all don't threaten. It's nasty, makes everyone aggressive and fearful, and eventually they'll call your bluff when they are ready, on their terms. It will become less effective each time you do it. But above all, don't do it for YOU. It makes YOU into a nasty person. Think of the person -- YOU -- who is being shaped by all these events.

In the end, you'll have to live with yourself. If you twist and manipulate and compromise -- you may still lose your marriage. You may still lose H's respect and love. Or H may begin a pattern of affairs, leaving you in a pattern of twisting and manipulating.

Love is not manipulation and power plays. Good sense is not deluding yourself into believing you hold the power in this one. You are right, other people ARE being harmed by the affair NOW -- by the affair now, not the revelation of it. Your marriage is in jeopardy NOW. Your H's job is on the line NOW.

As Shakespeare said, "Tell the truth and shame the devil."

<small>[ June 01, 2004, 01:55 AM: Message edited by: A.M.Martin ]</small>

1 Timothy has much to say regarding leaders in the church. My favorite has always been that regarding a man who cannot control his own household being unable to lead the church.
It is hard because yes, as humans we all are inclined to sin. But we also need those in leadership positions to be accountable for their actions. Even if it means admitting that they are human, that they have sinned, and mostly that they understand they are accountable and there are consequences to that sin.
ME, I hate it for you that you find yourself in this position. It is a horrible place that you have been put in by your husband. That it is his job and a public job at that, makes it even worse. You must feel like the ground beneath you is very shaky right now. This is the time your faith is probable being tested the most.
No one here can make you do anything. You do need to try to step back and look at it from the perspective of someone in the church. If it were another man and your daughter, wouldn't you feel completely different? (As BS, we want to make the OW take a LOT of the blame. We need to believe in our spouses. This is a hard time and I know I found myself wanting so much of it to be her fault. I found myself grasping for anything that I could when it came to looking for good in my H.)This girl is much younger, your H is in a leadership position, he does need to be accountable. Not only that, he has fallen into a deep trap, one set by evil itself. It may take shining the light on it to end it. It would be hard on everyone to expose this but look at how hard it is now. Your H may need help and guidance right now from others around him. He is in a spot where having to answer, having to look hard at this, may help. Having those who love and support him there to do just that, may be what it takes to break this cycle.
Again, it is in your hands. Everyone here just hopes for the best for your family.

Marie Elena, I think that you have gotten the real advice on this thread. If you are thinking it is wrong to expose something as harmful as this, it is what many think at first. Denial of these dreadful situations is in fact a response that is somewhat healthy, in order to give you a "breather moment".

Exposing the A. You have to talk with H about this matter. You H is a WS. He has not proven to you that he can be trusted, as he is still in his fog. His belief system is corrupt at this point in time. This is not something that will just make itself well. The behaviors we continue, enabling and allowing - the lie to live without exposure will ultimately do more damage. Unless we expose the sin.

With your own child, if they commit sin, you want them to confess and to do what is right by others. If we hid the problems (for the sake of child- which is truly not the real reason to hide anything) then the problems have not been fixed, and there was not any real guidance for the child. Hiding only allows the corruption to continue. A child is happy when they have parents that don't allow them to do everything that they want. The lesson is in the exposure of the problem. The work of healing can only begin when the problem is exposed.

God gives us reasoning, not to delude ourselves to thinking that for every bad act we do that he will come down here and set the thing straight. He doesn't work like that. He gave us the ability to see and to judge and to be honest. Up to us if we carry it out.

Christianity in the early days was not meant to be a way out, but a harder road in. Being comfortable is not what it is about, nor is it the goal here. We seem to use crutches (like religion) to avoid doing that which we ought to have done. Exposure is harder in the beginning, but the sooner the better. Faithfulness is in the work of it. Prayer helps.

When we expose a truth, then we are truly trusting IN God. As he will be there along side of us every bit of the way.

Marie,
I am truly sorry that you have been deceived again by your H, but it does confirm that anyone who chooses an A uses extremely bad judgement and the pull of the A is stronger than anyone can imagine. I think about what they risk and it makes no rational sense. I see that everyone is advising full blown exposure and they make great arguments as to why. I see why you hesitate and I would agree more with your caution than thier position on complete exposure. I do caution you that you must consider exposure to end contact. Usually, exposure will end contact, but from what I read on this site is that exposure starts the process of ending contact. It is not unusual to see continued contact for months after the exposure. Often, it seems that when the BS finds out, that is enough to slow down and stop contact. But really it is up to the WS to end contact.

Let me tell you how I handled my situation. I chose not to expose my W for similar reasons to yours. I can tell you and anyone else that is was extremely difficult and I do not advise it for anyone who can't be resolved to change. It is now 9 months after dday and we are in recovery. However, in my situation I could see progress the whole way. My thought was as long as we made progress, I would continue to keep it between us. If she would have continued, I would have exposed. In fact there were times where I considered it, but somthing would happen to help me with my resolve. I can tell you I have never been closer to God in my life and my spiritual growth was amazing. I am a changed man. I trust God more now than ever and I learned to live by his grace.

Melody makes great points about your H's position and exposure. I would caution you to consider how the Bible tells us how to restore a sinning brother. The first step you have already taken and that is to go to him individually and on a one on one basis point out his sin and give him an opportunity to repent. The next step is to go to him with 2 or 3 witnesses and again rebuke him in an effort to restore. I believe this should be your next step if you see ANY more contact by him to her. Chances are that she will continue to contact him. If that step does not work, then you must go to the congregation. The witnesses you choose s/b someone you trust AND are Godly people. You can't be wrong if you follow the Word. These are the steps I would have taken if necessary.

There are reasons that the Word tells us how to handle these situations. I beleive God's way is the best way. Your H may come to a point where he sees how wrong this was and seek the forgiveness of the congregation, but God's way of rebuke is a gentle restoration of the sinning Christian. I am still very conflicted about this because of his position and really beleive he will eventually step down. Even though it never became physical (as far as you know), he still betrayed the trust of his flock. Also, God will eventually decide his path and the consequeces of his choices.

Please remember that God's wisdom is much greater than ours and you need to really trust him now more than ever to lead you. Right now you are the strong one and hold the key to mercy. Your H is weak now and extremely deceived. The entire recovery process is on your shoulders right now and you really need God to strengthen and lead you. God alone will get you through this season. Push away your pride and embrace the pain. This is how God brings us closer to Him. Pride will eclipse mercy and forgiveness. There is a purpose in this circumstance for you and him and God's purpose will be fulfilled for those who love Him.

Christ's Love,
Roman121

ME! i'm going to try hard to make sure what i made sense but i will have to be honest that this thread has got me stirring quite a bit. i also need to say i'm confused. because the very people that you have called out to in the past has given you advice and even though you have respectfully said you respect their advice and opinion, you don't think it's for you.

again, i'm probably not going to sound as succinct as ML but will try to convey my thoughts. my last post to you on the thread you started that called out to others for help and i stated something, did you really read what i typed? the fact that this OW continues to sit under the preaching of your H is serious. when your H says that if it comes out then so be it, and you don't see a problems w/this reasoning? yes, i totally see the whole if it happens it's God's will thing. but at the same time, ML, cardinal, and roman have such biblical points that should be headed. you have come here for help, support, and guidance. but maybe it's really just to vent and get the kind of support that you want.

i don't think your H "preyed" on this OW, i actually feel more like she seduced him given what you have explained about her back ground. but the underlying point is that she is being harmed in this too, as well as the other OM's and BS's in her life, and the congregation at your church is being harmed by your H not openingly admit. i would not be remissed to say that if it came out that your congregation would still chose to have your H as pastor. I think the approach that roman pointed out w/how the bible says to deal w/a similar situation is the best way to go and it's God's way.

however, i understand the concerns you have for your family but the truth is that your H has sowed something that he must reap and he hasn't really reaped yet. it doesn't matter if he is calling you 5 times a day now. didn't you just say that he was doing that before and that she was still calling him and he was till saying he loved her just recently? threatening to expose is more harmful then doing it. yes, i guess you could lump the EA into a "one-time fling" but can you really? because it's still going on. even if it's just one sided.

i guess above all else i'm still confused as to why you haven't exposed to this girl's family? maybe if you did that then the rest will follow (the congregation would know, end the A, etc.) have you and your H really submitted to God about what needs to be done?

ME! i think that you will start to see a trend on the forums when it comes to replying to your posts. maybe that will "make" you stay away from the forums and maybe that's what needs to happen because you are not hearing what you want or hearing what you think you can't do. You have asked of these people for help and input and you have received it. Now what will you do? no one envy's the pain or situation you are going through and yes, it is probably very easy for us to say or tell you what to do when we are not in that situation but maybe that's why God sends people our way to tell us these things. Now, ME! what will you do?

"where could i go but to the Lord, seeking a refuge for my soul..."

"Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound, that saved a wretch like me...."

"what a friend we have in Jesus."

"he hideth my soul in the cleft of the rock..."

"on a hill far away, stood an old rugged cross, the emblem of suffering and shame...."

ME,

I can feel your struggle as you try to process what has happened to your husband, your family and life as you know it. I have never posted before (I'm a GREAT lurker), but I feel compelled to share a couple of experiences two of the churches in my conference went through.

In Church A (my church), the associate pastor had an affair with a congregant. She went to him for counselling, and one thing led to another. The pastor eventually confessed the affair to the head pastor - who forgave him. BUT - that's as far as it went. In our denomination, if a sexual misconduct has been reported, the church pastor has an obligation to report it to the conference, who will then take steps to deal with the situation. This (to my understanding) never happened.

Time passed. The associate pastor was well-liked. He gave sermons, one of which touched me deeply. (When I later found out what the sermon obliquely referred to - I was horrified)

More time passed, and the head pastor resigned. A new head pastor was chosen. About 1 year into his stay, all heck broke loose. The OW had approached him, complaining of an affair with the other pastor. She said she had not been treated fairly and would sue the church. The new head pastor took the complaint to the conference. The conference took VERY harsh measures, throwing the pastor out - even at one point forbidding him to set foot in the church. Needless to say, this rocked my church. The accusations were horrible. Letters flew around. Meetings were emotionally uncontrolled. It was excrutiating.

It all ended with the church splitting, the head pastor leaving to start his own church, the associate pastor leaving in disgrace and eventually leaving the ministry. I no longer attend that church. I have an "icky" feeling even looking at the building.

On the other hand, Church B in our conference suffered a similar problem. The head pastor had an affair with the much younger secretary. He himself took it to the conference, confessing his sin to them. He offered resignation. They asked him not to. He was uncomfortable with this, and confessed to his congregation DURING his sermon as to what he had done. His wife sat through the confession. The secretary was no where to be seen. You guessed it. The church rallied around the pastor, refusing his resignation as well. I have visited that church. No one has one mean or evil word to say against the pastor or the wife. It is a strong, growing church.

I agree that no person is above sin. That any human is forgiveable. The problem I see with your situation is that the congregation doesn't know there is something to forgive. How can they forgive if they don't know?

Don't forget "The truth shall set you free."

Seeking_More

Dear Ones,
I have read through all of your replies, and I do so much appreciate what you have told me. I want you to know that I have prayerfully re-examined my position, and I see the merits of each suggestion.

I have taken the approach mentioned by Roman121. To me, his is really the most Biblical. Besides my family, I have told two other key people. This was done in an attempt to make my husband more accountable.

I found out yesterday that there has been no further contact for nearly 7 weeks. The calls that I had found out about were prior to the middle of April. My husband freely admitted this when I called him, and upon re-examining the records, I see where many of the calls from her are "hang-ups" - 1 minute charges.

I am NOT MINIMIZING the importance of those calls. However, nothing came of them, physically or emotionally, and he himself put an end to them. He told her that he wanted no further contact with her, and so far (for 7 weeks) she has complied.

My husband, who has been in the ministry for over 30 years, had up until this time been a "model" pastor. We have had our ups and downs like ANY married couple, but no improprieties had EVER occurred before.

If this emotional affair had been part of a pattern, or if he were un-repentant, or whatever, that would change the dynamics of this circumstance.

We have reconciled. I believe him when he says that this is truly over, and that his eyes have been opened. He realizes that Satan surely used the circumstances that existed all around him (and in our marriage) to catch him at his weakest, and he was a willing participant!

I hope, and believe, that this will make us stronger, and more attentive to the dangers that his position can fall prey to.

As was mentioned by one poster, my husband did not pursue this girl. She has issues of her own, and yes, she did pursue him, although it was not obvious from the beginning. This appears to have been a game to her. I think that one of my early posts said something about his responding to her calls for help, and how she used that attention to manipulate things, although he STILL DID WRONG! I know that, and he knows that.

Her parents do not attend our church. My husband has decided (on his own) to call her and tell her that he never loved her, what they did was wrong, that he and she had hurt me and our family, that he was ashamed for his part in this, that he is willing to pay for her to receive professional counseling because he believes that she has some real problems (we are continuing to see our psychologist), and that we want no further contact with her. He will also ask her to leave our church.

Since we do know that she is continuing an affair with her boss, (she was seeing him prior to becoming involved with my husband), we really do see this in a different light. My husband is no longer flattered by the attention she gave him, and realizes what was risked.

I do ask for your continued prayers, but at this point, I feel that I am following the right road for us and our church. I will check back with you all from time to time, but at this writing, I am very hopeful.

No, I am more than hopeful. I am determined, and I do believe my husband is back on track church-wise and marriage-wise, and family-wise.

I truly do appreciate all who wrote. Each of you has helped me. Even those with whom I did not agree had useful things to say, and I do thank you for your input.

May God bless you all. I will continue to pray for all of you.

Marie

Can you relook at this and see if you feel weird about what you wrote.... when I put these two things side by side....

"I think that one of my early posts said something about his responding to her calls for help, and how she used that attention to manipulate things,"

So here is a needy, manipulative young woman... and helping her got your H trapped in her web....

and then this ....

"that he is willing to pay for her to receive professional counseling because he believes that she has some real problems "

This seems to me a very dangerous position for your family to take... helping her again. Doesn't this then put her into a position where she'll need to thank him for all his help ... and perhaps do something "nice" for him to show her gratitude...?

Am I the only one this seems weird to????

This offer your H made, is scary in it's careless NONrecognition of how all this began.....

Pep

double

<small>[ June 02, 2004, 03:36 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>