Hope you stay with MC, and that your H is the ultimate of supportive to you, M.E. If you come back to post, it is helpful to many others who need help too. The processes of recovery are so similar, unless there is an addiction (drugs, alcohol, or sexual) of sorts involved. So your input here is help to others. I am glad to have been of any help at all. I recognize how devastating this time in life can be.

It is in coming to terms with the A behavior and overcoming it in due time, that we do recover. NC is vital. That OW may try to shake you, but the truth is not as bad as many other sins and crimes of this life. And we are much more than the summation of our wrongs. Thank God for that!

Recovery is like a maturing process. If we are successful, the rewards are beyond compare of what our marriage used to be.

I hope that you will stay in touch here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Take care, and best wishes to you Marie! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MARIE ELENA1:
<strong> Dear Melody Lane,
As I have REPEATEDLY told you, my husband did NOT LEAD THIS GIRL INTO HIS BED. My word! No wonder people are jumping onto your bandwagon!

My husband admitted to kissing this girl. He kissed her perhaps 10 times within a 7 month period. I do believe this.

Marie </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Marie, It doesn't matter if it happened in a bed or a church office or a back seat, the point remains the same. What you told us earlier was: "He told me that there had been no intercourse, but admitted to some kissing and touching." It is still wrong and it is still adulterous.

He is in a position of AUTHORITY, is twice her age, and she is a young, immature, inexperienced girl whose best interest is placed with your H as a member of his church. He abused that trust and is certainly more culpable than her, although you call her "evil."

I am sorry I have so upset you with my words, but I refuse to sit here and tell you what you want to hear. Most people won't do that on this forum. There is nothing loving or compassionate to tell you want to hear and sit by while you continue on this delusional, destructive path.

I see no point in responding to you further so you don't have to flee the forum because of me. That is because I know that all the reasoning and the Biblical backup in the world is lost here. I would only implore you to reread AM MArtin's post, because she was absolutely right.

You are deceiving yourself, Marie. And it pains me to see a pastor's wife not only manipulating the truth, but manipulating bible verses in order to shut people up in order to accommodate your deception. [Matthew 7:1, which you quoted out of context in order to shut me up] Marie, you must know that there is something terribly wrong when you are reduced to such tactics. I only pray to God that your eyes are opened soon so you can help your H. I wish you the best...

ML, who's to say that you don't manipulate the verses as well? the Bible, unfortunately for the world, will always be subject to interpretation because of the very nature of human beings. if it wasn't then why would we have catholics, presbitarians, jehovah witness, mormons, etc.
maybe God is trying to open your eyes as well.

This will truly be my last comment on this thread. I'm making a promise here to God so that i can be held accountable. we should not make promises we can't keep and that's why i'm promising to not reply anymore on this thread.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">ML, who's to say that you don't manipulate the verses as well? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">roughroad, who is to say that I HAVE? You certainly can't say so unless you have evidence. Otherwise it is just a baseless, nasty accusation.

<small>[ June 03, 2004, 03:45 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

Dear Marie,

It is a crying shame that you feel the need to leave this forum as I know that being here has helped you through your darkest hours. My goodness you will be sorely missed.

I understand some posters views to expose, but I also understand your views not to. The simple fact is it is your marriage, it is also your choice and I respect that fact.

You may be able to clue me in here ME because I am not American, but did Hillary Clinton appear in front of the whole of America to expose her Husbands affair with that Monica woman? I know it all came out in the end but did she expose it? I don't think she did, but I could be wrong.
If she didn't does that make her selfish? I don't think so and crikey he was leading a COUNTRY.

Food for thought hey <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Anyway I will leave it at that, I sincerely wish you and yours all the best, only you know whats right to do in your heart.

Love
mtheart (and it is very empty today <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> )

Ok

Here is my $0.02, and you can decide if this BS is full of BS or has a point.

First question, what is the point of exposure? To end the affair, to tell people who know or have influence over the WS spouse your position, to share the facts that an inappropriate relationship may be ongoing, and that you want to work on the marriage.

The purpose of exposure is not to share, belittle, or attack the WS.

Ok, we have the added element of this man being a minister, and responsible for setting an example, being a spiritual leader, etc.

I think it is appropriate for this man to he himself, go to the deacons or whomever is in that position in the church and shrare the whole truth. Take his wife with him and meet with them to share the truth, and let them deal with it.

I'm not so certain about excommunicating the other woman, or anything like that, at least not until the church hears her side, asks her what her story it, etc.

If there is evidence of her having an affair with her boss, and that it is on-going, I do believe the church has the moral obligation to call attention to how inappropriate that act is.

However, and this is a complaint of mine, is that few churches actually do this sort of thing anymore. Most seem afraid they are going to offend their congregation, and lose money in the collection plate.

I do understand it is a fine line, that you don't want to drive someone away, but call them into a closer relationship with Christ. So you do have to have a pretty close relationship yourself, something to offer that appears even better than the sin people choose.

Why do people choose sin? Because Satan puts a pretty veneer on it, to make the surface look good.

Why do people shy away from following Christ? Because many of those who say they are followers of Christ look so dower, downcast, and beaten that they drive off others.

Or they appear so judgemental and rules based that they give off the impression that if you don't follow these rules, then the church will not love you.

Jesus hung around sinners because he loved and cared for them. He didn't like what they were doing, and never missed a chance to tell a sinner to stop sinning.

But first, he met them where they were, loved them, and met their needs. Jesus knew he was going to die for their sins, so he knew that was covered. He wanted to get to know them, to have a relationship with them, and most importantly, he came to earth in a human form so that we could get a glimpse of who God really was and begin to have a relationship with Him.

God is not about rules and sin. Yes, he talks about them, but only to explain that sin seperates us from God and the rules are not meant to be a killjoy, but to keep our bodies and souls safe.

God wants to know us, more than he wants to judge us.

Shouldn't we do the same? Shouldn't we focus on how to meet others and love them, instead of focusing on what we percieve to be their faults.

Now I just pray that I can live up to these words, as I often fall short of the example I express here. So don't look to me as an example doing this, but rather as a man who strives and often fails daily at doing these very things.

Tony

I think it is appropriate for this man to he himself, go to the deacons or whomever is in that position in the church and shrare the whole truth. Take his wife with him and meet with them to share the truth, and let them deal with it.
_________________________________


You know what, Maries H already did that. But I do agree that she ought to be present at that very important meeting, and I am not sure if she was or not.

The sad thing is that Marie could have gotten some more support here, which I think is healthy. Now she is feeling overwhelmed with good reason, I think, and she has left the board. She and her H are seeing MC, and they are working together now, finally. He had gone on a sabbatical, and I think that Marie could probably use one of those at this time.

But what makes a marriage survive an A? Working on it together. MC together. Loving only one another. And NC with that cheap OW, whom wheedled her way into the mechanics of that family like a wayward, sneaky tramp does. She had befriended the daughters, Marie, and the H. Got herself in on the family so that she knew them all just like clockwork.

MB could have helped support Marie, a BS, with any questions she had, to reflect and work on it. Perhaps she will come back.

At least she is getting professional help which is what many here are needing but not getting. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by cardinal:
<strong> I think it is appropriate for this man to he himself, go to the deacons or whomever is in that position in the church and shrare the whole truth. Take his wife with him and meet with them to share the truth, and let them deal with it.
_________________________________


You know what, Maries H already did that. But I do agree that she ought to be present at that very important meeting, and I am not sure if she was or not.

: </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Cardinal, I was not aware that she did that at all, she has not posted such a thing, unless they just it yesterday. What she did post was that he went to the board of deacons and offered to resign, but did not tell them about the affair. According to her, they did not tell them because it would "destroy his ministry."

The only person who has been told the truth is a good friend who lives out of town:

"We went two days later to see a mutual friend who lives in another town. My H confessed to him (he is of the same faith). He asked my H a lot of questions, and arranged to be his accountability partner."

What I was pressing for all along was exposure to the board and letting the chips fall where they may. That is why is Marie is so angry at me and has left. It was not what she wanted to hear.

Yes, I do know that I read that she did say that in her posts here. She said that it was told to the "elders" of the church, but since it was short the sexual intercourse that he would not have to be let go from the ministry there. Apparently he is wanted and needed there. He was given the sabbatical.

So, it was disclosed to the elders of the church. I thought your argument was about letting it out to the congregation as well.

In any case, I doubt that she will feel welcome to share any more of her very tough situation.

cardinal, she is perfectly welcome to post here and I believe she knows this. I think rather, that some difficult truths were pointed out to her and she found the truth rather unwelcome.

Where did she say that he went to elders of the church and confessed? I have never seen her say that.

I had thought that ME's husband had confessed to the elders. Part of my reasoning in my posts may come from a different church system - and from what happened in my church.

The only reason I would encourage confession to the congregation is not to flagellate, not to condemn, not to punish, but to uplift.

Ok. I can see you shaking your heads, but really this was my thought. And it all comes from seeing what happened to the two churches in my area. Pastors are put on display. They are in the public eye. What man does in secret, God will bring to light.

It turned out incredibly badly for my church. We lost a much loved pastor, he lost his family and his ministry, tore families apart, tore the church in two, and still causes much pain. I often have wondered if we could have avoided that if he'd done what the head pastor of the church down the road did. His confession did nothing but bring his church together.

As I said before though, God is working with ME and her husband. I do pray for courage for them, even if it isn't for the path that I think they should go. Even if confession never happens, the rebuilding of a marriage takes courage.....

If ME doesn't post any more, it is her choice, but it bothers me that posters are being blamed for this. It is a public forum. She did ask for advice. I gave mine from my experience. Its intent was not to harm.

Seeking_More

SeekingMore, I do agree with you 100% that the church should know, starting with the deacon board. But I was not aware that he had even done that. At least that would be a good start. [I wonder if they were told that contact continued up until a few weeks ago?]

The bad thing about keeping it a secret from the congregation is that it will eventually come out and they will find out they were deceived about someone they thought they could trust.

That's what scares me most about this situation ML. Our pastor DID confess to the head pastor - what I think would parrallel ME's board of deacons.

It took about 5 years for my associate pastor's affair to become public knowledge. And from some of the scuttlebut I've heard since then, she is the one that came on to him.

And look what happened. It was/is a shame.

On another note, I wanted to let you know ML that I appreciated your taking the time to research scripture, type it all out, then post it. Most people (me included of course <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) love the "judge not" verses, but it's so much harder to handle the advice that goes against the grain. (Don't get angry anyone. I've been in that position too - and it AIN'T fun)

I don't envy ME her position. It's got to be very, very tough.

Seeking_More

It is indeed most difficult to have a position under scrutiny of a church. And I imagine that the pressures of being as "blameless" or as perfect as a person can be, can make a person uptight. It is a little different than the usual situation, but bet it happens a lot. Because women/men are human.

The congregation of a church that is close knit probably already has an idea that something went on with pastor and a parishener. I can't believe that it is not already being questionned at this point.

I do think that eventually the truth comes out, one way or another. Usually when a WS talks the truth to the others, and works on that NC and is committed to the marriage and that which is his concern, then there would be success for the marriage. If you can be forthright with a parish, there would be more honor in that. I think that folks would recognize the difficulty in exposing it, and forgiveness is always wanting to be given.

Time will tell for them, and what choices that they will make as a couple is up to them.

Hope that things go the best way that they can.
This site is very helpful to so many. Who knows maybe she will pop back with some good news.

<small>[ June 04, 2004, 04:43 PM: Message edited by: cardinal ]</small>