I DO apolgise. Now go look at the website.

OMG I really need to edit this one. Now can you see why JL (and my H) call me a "handful".

Jenny

<small>[ June 01, 2004, 01:10 AM: Message edited by: KiwiJ ]</small>

By your response I had thought that Wellington wasn't a city in NZ.

BTW, do you work for the Chamber of Commerce? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

cwmac

I was typing. What did you say that needed to be edited out?

cwmac

We have a saying here in Auckland "NZ stops at the Bombay Hills" which is where the rural part of NZ starts. I'm sure you have similar sayings in the US. Most countries do.

Other NZers HATE us for being so parochial and one eyed. In fact the further south you go the less you admit to being an Aucklander.

No I don't work for the Chamber of Commerce but I should get commission from the Tourism Board.

Nothing edited out of the previous one - I just realised how rude I sounded.

Jenny

<small>[ June 01, 2004, 01:17 AM: Message edited by: KiwiJ ]</small>

Hey Jenny,

hope you get the job!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

as for H, have you POJA'd this? that's the key...find the solution that you both are comfortable with...

perhaps accountability is key for him...perhaps the thought that he could "drop into" any trip at any time would be enough that he wouldn't worry and/or actually go with you on the trip...

here's a lengthy example to help you get a somewhat deeper understanding of the trigger anxiety and possible solutions...

my H is mr. TIME (I am not at all <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> and wish I had a bit more of his attention to this detail!)...he likes to ask me WHEN I am coming into town...this happened during A so that he could ensure OW wasn't there at the same time...

but understand, this is his regular behaviour too...he's always been this way...it was simply that his regular habit conveniently fit into the A requirement for secrecy and scheduling...

problem: his asking me for a time estimate is a trigger back to A, reminds me of the A...his question caused me discomfort in early recovery...

understand that I BELIEVE him fully, truly, with every piece of my heart...his asking has nothing to do with A...I KNOW this for a fact...

but...that's the nature of a trigger...it causes anything from all-out panic attacks to a slight shadow (ie. what I felt in these instances)...a trigger is beyond the control of the BS, a knee-jerk reaction, a gut reaction...

it's fascinating...we've discussed it between us...he knows I am not judging him, it is my feeling, and mine alone...yet he cares for me...and he hates that his time-obsession causes me pain however slight...

his solution: immediately after asking (instinctive behaviour in him, where he plans his day, including me) is to follow up by saying "it doesn't matter"...he is gradually training himself to let go of his "need to know" in favour of my ability to drop in unexpectedly, at any time, whenever...

also interesting is the fact that it is no longer a trigger for me, and yet he still catches himself, "corrects" himself if you want to look at it that way...happened just this morning...and we both laughed and said in unison: "who cares?"

the bonus of recovery ...a permanent change in how we look at the impact of our actions on each other...a feeling of special attention that other couples don't have...because we were broken and then fixed, we know the horrible possibilities and never want to go there again...

I like to think our M is better as a result of the A...the old adage of you didn't know what you had until it was gone...

we both see the changes (now, it took a while to get to this point) not as "something we'll have to live with for the rest of our lives", as a negative, a burden...but as a blessing, a gift arrived at through immense pain...something we both value and treasure...

the A itself was negative...the changes in our M are positive...

hope this helps...awed

edited to add: how "rude" of me not to respond to your apology! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I took no offence that you did not reply when you were first on MB...

the post I made to you was that I thought you wrote some excellent observations that would help struggling BS understand the internal struggles of a WS...and I sent many BS to your thread, to read your words...

you still provide great insight...it IS a struggle and a lot of BS have a hard time seeing that within their own situations...but (and I think my initial intuition was correct on this one!) you evoke a sympathetic response from most BS rather than hostility...I suspect people truly can "hear" the honesty in your struggles, while with so many other WS including their own, it is seen as a "pity party" worthy of scorn...

anyhow...there was no need for an apology...but I appreciated it nonetheless <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ...

although I've never been to NZ, many of my family (incl. docs working there temporarily) have travelled extensively through 2 of the islands (I didn't know about the 3rd!) and loved it...the slides were beautiful and I'd love to travel there myself some day...

<small>[ June 01, 2004, 08:39 AM: Message edited by: awed18 ]</small>

Kiwi
Awed said
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> the bonus of recovery ...a permanent change in how we look at the impact of our actions on each other...a feeling of special attention that other couples don't have...because we were broken and then fixed, we know the horrible possibilities and never want to go there again...
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you get the job, good luck to you BTW, you now have the experience, ugly as it is, but you now have it to arm yourselves in dealing with something just as this.

Communicate everything, with a POJA everything should be okay. Reassurance will be needed, I'm sure.

Travel to the States, enjoy yourself. Hey I have been to Australia for a month, loved it!!!! I traveled with an all star athletic team. It was fab.

Your favorite lub, KY

Hi Jenny. I will reply to you on this thread instead of the other one. I agree with yellow. If you are anything like me you are overly cautious with the opposite sex now. If your hubbie is ok with it I would say go for it!!! Maybe he can go along some times <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> !!

Thanks everyone.

This is the outcome of our talk in bed in the middle of the night (do all couples do this LOL?)

Me: This is a trust issue isn't it?

He: Yes, it just makes me nervous.

Me: Well, I've talked to the others (that's you guys) and this is what I've come up with.

I will be contactable by you at all times, you can contact me any time you like.

I will call you frequently and at any time.

If you were to turn up unexpectedly you would be welcomed with open arms.

He: They (you guys) do realise I would need to get on a plane to do that?

Me: Ha ha <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> It's the principle. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Me: If there are trips where it is possible for you to come with me you would be very welcome to come and I would want you to come.

He: I would want to do that too.

Me: Someone (that's you MT) pointed out that even my caring how you feel about this is such a good move forward and shows how far we've come.

He: I'd already thought about that and it makes me very happy.

He: Well, I'm happy with all that.

Me: and I'm happy with all that too.

Me: Hey, we've just reached a POJA.

He: If you get the job I'll bring home a bottle of bubbles.

Me: If I don't get the job, bring home two bottles of cheap stuff.

Hugs and laughs.

Guys, this stuff really works. Now, all I have to do is get the job.

Jenny

<small>[ June 01, 2004, 02:46 PM: Message edited by: KiwiJ ]</small>

KiwiJ, in my opinion it would be a growth opportunity for husband. He has a chance to show he trusts you. I hope he doesn't screw that opportunity up. You need that, you deserve that and I hope he can see it. Conversely if he calls you, the phone can't ring a second time. You will need to be very accountable but this can't dictate the rest of your lives. Earn the trust but you need to be trusted. Hope you get the job.

Jenny,

First question, do you really need this job, or is it something you want to do with regard to bringing in some extra money?

I ask this for a couple of reasons. You and H have indeed done a POJA, but it will always be uncomfortable for him when you are gone especially traveling with a man and no one else. You need to recognize that. You would be very uncomfortable if the situation were reversed, no matter how much you trust your H.

If you don't really need this job, but it would be nice to have the extra income (everyone can use some extra income), then there will be a tendency for your H to view this as Jenny's hobby. That makes for some uncomfortable situations.

If you really need the job, then it is easier for him to deal with up to a point, but the fear is still there.

Finally, you will be the PA (personal assistant, better define the term here <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) which means you will be running doing things for your boss, that are similar to what you do for your H. If you are very good at your job, and then come home tired, especially from a trip and they are tiring, then there is a tendency to feel the boss is getting better treatment than the H.

I mention all of this because you are in a completely new situation with regard to your work and the possible situations of this potential new job. You need to be very sensitive to this. As you noted earlier, you have lost things, and you are finding out what they are.

So my suggestion is that while you POJA with your H, you also plan with him. He won't want to be calling you all of the time and bother you, so you might want to call him. But, even if he calls or you call there is no guarentee that you are where you say you are. That is the nature of cell phones, and life today.

So be very sensitive to this situation. It should not be an anchor around your neck, but I think you realize that a new way of doing things that both insures your H's comfort level is as good as it can be, and that your comfort level is high as well.

You may not fully realize but it will take close to two years for your marriage to really recover. That does NOT mean that things cannot be good now and in the near future, but part of what you lost is your H's confidence...in himself and in you. Oddly, he may actually have more confidence in you than he does that HE can be the attractive choice for you.

It is just part of the deal, but your sensitivity to his sensitivity will really help, AND it will lead you two a much deeper marriage.

I hope you get the job offer, if not something better will come along.

God Bless,

JL

WOE, I hadn't thought about the phone just ringing once, yes, that's very important.

JL, yes we do need the income. The bookshop does very well but the profits are only divided up at the end of the financial year. H draws a wage from the shop which is comfortable but not THAT comfortable.

I have been a PA for one man for the last 7 years so my job situation isn't going to change. Ex Boss and I had a very good working relationship with absolutely no improper overtones at all which was great. He was one of my major supports and the first person I told about the A. He didn't like it but still supported me. He was very patient when I would run off to the ladies room in tears, yet again. He should have told my H. But people do collude these days. They wouldn't have 20 years ago. I would probably have been fired and H would have been told why.

It's true that this will be a new situation, I have never travelled for work before. It sounds exciting (nice hotels etc) but you are right, I need to know how comfortable the whole thing will be for both of us.


When I went looking for a "lesser" job all the agencies warned me against it, saying I would soon be chafing to do what I used to do.


It's funny, PA's (Personal Assistants) are now called EA's (Executive Assistants) which is just as bad!!!! Perhaps I should call myself an Executive Secretary (can we make anything out of ES?).

As for going away with a man, I understood that the seminars were for sales staff and other managers, so there wouldn't be just him and me. I also got the impression that I would be run off my feet, setting up rooms, taking minutes etc etc.

H, in his old job, used to do quite a bit of travelling and I didn't like it. Especially when once we got a letter from a hotel he'd stayed in addressed to Mr & Mrs ... and hoping the stay was enjoyable and please come again. It took a lot of explaining from him and I nearly rang the hotel to tell them to be more careful how they address their follow up letters.

It could be back to the drawing board when I get the phone call - if so, I'll do the round of the interviews again.

I was going to mention phone calls not being a good guage of where you really are. OM's W rang him once on his cellphone when we were in his office. We had been for a drink and just got to his office. I heard all the "Hello darling's" and general chit chat and then the utter, utter bast@@d had the nerve to put down the phone and say to me "Where were we?" I was so shocked. I should just have turned on my heel right then and walked out of his life forever. OMG, people having A's do STUPID things.

BTW, JL you old dinosaur <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> work is very important to me! This month off has been fun but I haven't got little children, just boomerang boy (26 years old and SHOULD be moving on) and I love my work.

Jenny

<small>[ June 01, 2004, 04:22 PM: Message edited by: KiwiJ ]</small>

Dinosaur????

Rumph! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I hope you understand the reason I asked. You just mentioned your concerns when H traveled, so you know what he will go through. I don't have a good suggestion for how to handle it, but do it with grace and sensitivity I guess.

And yes I understand you wanting to work. I am sure your H does as well. That is good.

No real solid advice to offer, I think you understand the situation well. Just keep H in the loop.

God Bless,

JL

JL, just thought you needed pointing out we ARE in the 21st century. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> and women don't have jobs as hobbies any more. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

I'm only giving you a hard time, I know what you mean.

Thanks again everyone, as usual you've all come through with great advice.

Still waiting by the phone..........

Jenny

<small>[ June 01, 2004, 07:19 PM: Message edited by: KiwiJ ]</small>

Well all that POJAing was a good exercise but I didn't get the job.

TOO OVERQUALIFIED!!!!!

But as I put down the phone to the recruitment agent, I heard the call waiting beeps, answered it and it was another agent with another interview to go to. Talk about good timing on her part.

So here we go again.

I was disappointed to start with but hey, pick yourself up, dust yourself off.......

Jenny

And down a glass of cheap bubbly <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Truly sorry to hear you didn't get the job Jenny, but hey.....the next one might be a better option.

Hang in there and keep us posted.

Cheers
mtheat

Fingers crossed here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

cwmac

<small>[ June 02, 2004, 12:10 AM: Message edited by: cwmac ]</small>

Probably for the best - I sensed so many misgivings from you guys.

Yes, MT, H is bringing home the cheap stuff. LOL

It's all been a good learning curve with communication between H and I so a lot of good's come out of it.

This time you guys won't get a blow by blow description of waiting by the phone. I'll let you know when I'm finally employed again.

Again, thanks so much.

BTW CW, MrsX was out of town but will be back on here with updates soonish I'm thinking. Did you enjoy my geography lesson?

Jenny

Actually MrsX was here tonight. There is a way to know who is logged in.

Yes loved the colloquial education on NZ. You know the term, "hick" ?

cwmac

GOOD GRIEF I had no idea there was a way to know who was logged in!

Yes I do know the term "hick" - if it's the same as here it means someone from the country who has a very bad hat and speaks like this "duh huh - how you doin'"

He he, and a "hickey" is a lovebite - no connection with previous "hick".

And what, pray tell, are you asking me that for?

Jenny

<small>[ June 02, 2004, 12:37 AM: Message edited by: KiwiJ ]</small>

Jenny,
It sounded as though that was the term that you were searching for when you described those unfortunate Kiwis who don't live in Aukland.

cwmac