Mangos!

but would they make neat li'l ol' circles?

In2uiring minds want 2 know!

...I gave a talk 2day for an intersting group of retired philanthropist types about my work. Free Rueben Sam Witch and everythang. Was fun. They didn't even want me 2 bring a powerpoint presentation or any prepared material at all. I had a good time. It's nice 2 know that people even older than JL care about what happens 2 kids and stuff out there. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Now, if that doesn't get JL 2 post 2 my thread, I don't know what will.

...now, I just need 2 get H4F's attenstion somehow. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

2dles,
-ol' 2dlong

and then there's ark. I haven't gotten ark on this one yet, either.

Or J.R. He's out there. I saw him on just a tad or 2 ago.

Lots of other folk units 2.

What does ol' 2long have 2 do 2 get attention on here? Maybe put one of them bumper stickers on my van that tweaks just about everybody off? Like "Nuke the unborn gay baby whales" or something? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

"Sometimes people just explode" - Repo Man.

-ol' 2long

Talkin to Ole folks????

Don't you have some rocks to crawl over?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I'm keeping my eye on you young fella, just haven't had anything good to offer.

Of course I could offer what a past Giants coach used to say: "Don't get your daubber down." He is retired in your part of your country. Perhaps you can tell me what a "daubber" is.

Must go. I did something dumb and volunteered to run an organization at my youngests HS. So I have a meeting to go to.

Hang in there 2L, you are a good man, this will work out.

JL

***thread jack***

ss ... we're still waiting for those ufo stories. -taptaptaptaptaptap-

***resume thread***

2long ... both happy and dismayed that you're still hanging in there.

JL:

"Main Entry: 1daub
Pronunciation: 'dob, 'däb
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French dauber
transitive senses
1 : to cover or coat with soft adhesive matter : PLASTER
2 : to coat with a dirty substance
3 a : to apply coloring material crudely to b : to apply (as paint) crudely
intransitive senses
1 archaic : to put on a false exterior
2 : to apply colors crudely
- daub·er noun"

"Main Entry: 1dub
Pronunciation: 'd&b
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): dubbed; dub·bing
Etymology: Middle English dubben, from Old English dubbian; akin to Old Norse dubba to dub, Old High German tubili plug
1 a : to confer knighthood on b : to call by a distinctive title, epithet, or nickname
2 : to trim or remove the comb and wattles of
3 a : to hit (a golf ball) poorly b : to execute poorly
- dub·ber noun"

Apparently, in this case, he was saying something like "Don't be crestfallen"?

It's amazing how many people appear 2 use that expression. I got a lot of sites when I typed that in 2 google.

(and why did they choose 2 misspell "googol" anyway?).

Thanks about the vote of confidence. I think I'll do okay 2. But I think it's going 2 take a LONG time. That's a true bummerado (spanish, for bummer).

-ol' 2long

<small>[ June 03, 2004, 08:42 AM: Message edited by: 2long ]</small>

whippit:

Hey! There you are! How ya' doin?

Yeah, I'm dismayed and happy, 2. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Getting so ol' 2long doesn't remember what it's like not 2 have problems...

-ol' 2long

Sorry Whippit - I will only tell this one in person, I don't want it where *anyone* can read it.


2long, I'm gone again this weekend - to a youth conference (I'm not young, I'm on staff.) I won't be around much between now and next monday because I have to pack tonight.

Get your homework done - and tell us how it is working. We want to know.

SS

<small>[ June 03, 2004, 05:59 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

You know?

It's weird when and what kinds of "realizations" come 2 mind.

Like 2night:

I realized that my agonizing over what I failed 2 realize and act upon 13 years ago (and then again 3 years ago) for the past 29 months really has been futile. In my W's words "if you only had been willing 2 spend more time with me, or had answered my 2uestion 'what is an A' differently all those years ago, maybe none of this would have happend."

And I know that the truth is that it was her choice 2 have an A, but I have agonized over what I might have been able 2 do 2 "prevent" it.

But the real truth is that, for the past 29 months since D-day, I HAVE been doing the things I should have been doing 2 help prevent her A, and she's still unwilling 2 admit that she needs 2 give up RM.

There's nothing I could have said or done 2 *change her mind* about choosing 2 cross the line, because nothing I'm saying or doing now is influencing her thinking either. I might have improved my half of our marriage, like I'm trying 2 do now, but that's not influencing her decisions. She does that. She needs 2 be the one 2 do that now.

I can only tell/show her what I believe our R should/can be. It's up 2 her whether she wants it or not.

peace,
-ol' 2long

Hey there 'ol 2long. Just stopping in to say hello. I'll be here in the sky today, and maybe tomorrow and gone again, a little like a silver disk.....in other words I don't spend very much time even lurking on MB anymore, as it tends to stir up guilt and regret that I should finally have washed out of my system by now. However, it's always good to stop by and check in on some good friends.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I can only tell/show her what I believe our R should/can be. It's up 2 her whether she wants it or not.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Very true, but also very much what your philosophy has been for a 2ple of years now.....

Is the coaching with Penny having any effect on your W's perspective on RM?

If I was part of the mafia, I'd send Tony Soprano out to find RM and put the fella through a meat grinder. You deserve to have your W all to yourself!

Jen <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ June 04, 2004, 08:48 AM: Message edited by: Jen Brown ]</small>

Well, I'm the one coaching with Penny, though I'm working 2 be completely open with my W about it, and she has talked 2 Penny herself once.

The biggest change in her thinking stems from her agreeing with me not 2 contact RM without my permission "for now." I can see the withdrawl in her eyes.

Now, she could get 2 a point where she misses him 2 much and makes contact again, but if she does I hope she sees the effect that renewed contact has on her.

For now, she's distant but cordial most of the time. Even playful sometimes. But there's very little emotional intimacy and no physical for going on 4 months now.

I hope she comes out the other side of withdrawl a healthier, happier person. But I can't hasten anything. Her court.

-ol' 2long

"Humbled in Love", -Leonard Cohen

"Do you remember all of those pledges
That we pledged in the passionate night?
Ah, they're soiled now, they're torn at the edges
Like moths on a still yellow light.
No penance serves to renew them
No massive transfusions of trust.
Why, not even revenge can undo them
So twisted these vows and so crushed.
And you say you've been humbled in love.
Cut down in your love,
Forced to kneel in the mud next to me.
Ah, but why so bitterly turn from the one
Who kneels there as deeply as thee?

Children have taken these pledges.
They have ferried them out of the past.
Oh, beyond all the graves and the hedges
Where love must go hiding at last.
And here where there is no description.
Oh, here in the moment at hand.
No sinner need rise up forgiven.
No victim need limp to the stand.

And you say you've been humbled in love...

And look dear heart, look at the virgin!
Look how she welcomes him into her gown.
Yes, and mark how the stranger's cold armour
Dissolves like a star falling down.
Why trade this vision for desire
When you may have them both?
You will never see a man this naked.
I will never hold a woman this close.

And you say you've been humbled in love..."

A bad day.

We're going 2 try 2 settle with our insurance company. Our lawyer is not at all optimistic. We won't have enough 2 hire contractors 2 finish the house. We'll have 2 finish it ourselves. This, 2 me, is a relief. A release from the arrogant jerks we've had 2 deal with every day. A relief from the perpe2ual stress we've been under. Well, she's been under, because I haven't been able 2 think about it much since D-day. Doesn't mean that much 2 me at all. She seemed okay with it this afternoon, but is depressed now.

She sobbed during a sappy part in a movie on TV last night. I don't remember what it was, but I could tell it was probably a reminder of her withdrawl from RM. I asked if she wanted 2 talk about it, but she didn't say anything. I held her, but she doesn't hold back these days.

2day, she asked me if I'll review something she's written for her new job. She wanted 2 know if I'd freak, because she references something written by RM in the report. I said no, I won't freak. But I'm certainly not happy about it. If her boss referenced him in the report, that'd be one thing, but I think she added him 2 it. Even that would be okay, but I've seen his work, and it's not scientific. It's useless mental mas2rbation trying 2 masquerade as science by using statistics 2 quantify subjective interpretations.

2day, I still believe we could make it, but I don't believe we will.

-2long

<small>[ June 06, 2004, 12:03 AM: Message edited by: 2long ]</small>

2long - Good to see you again. I sure miss Brett -I guess he is still in LaLa Land with his new honey.

I just got back from a trip to Seattle to visit my sis and parents. It was very nice.

Don't give up hope for your marriage.

believer:

Frankly, why not? She gave up hope 13 years ago. I've tried 2 get through 2 her for 29 months now, trying 2 make up for not knowing what 2 do for 11 years prior. Believe me, it ain't appreciated, even when it's acknowledged.

-ol' 2long

Did she really quit years ago, or is that what she says now? There is a big difference.

I'm not sure I see the distinction. But, yes, she did "say so" after D-day. She said (and still would) that she's "emotionally divorced".

2day was a long day, and tiring, but it was good. Went 2 the swap meet this morning, then an awards ceremony for our old house group (we got an award. Ironic, isn't it? The house is beautiful on the outside, but there are only 2 "habitable" rooms inside). Good thing happened, though. We ran in2 a friend who's had a business restoring historic buildings. Lately he's worked exclusively on commercial buildings, but he's got time and is willing 2 help us out getting the skids greased. This is great, because he knows all the players downtown. This could be a real breakthrough for us, but I still think we're going 2 have 2 finish the house ourselves, though we'll probably be able 2 get elbow grease help from our old house group and various friends.

I did edit the report my W mentioned she referenced RM in. The references were things I knew about from years ago, so no evidence or need for contact 2 include them. Hopefully, she'll stay NC.

-ol' 2long

Penny asked me last week if I'd ask my W if she'd consider doing a 3-way phone session with us. I kept putting it off because there was no time, the house issues keep getting in the way, fear, excuses excuses... ...still stuck

But last night, Penny sent me an email said, in essence that I'll just have 2 decide whether 2 remain stuck or take the risk that asking her might be a bit scary, so I said I'd do (not just try).

Well, I asked her this morning. I don't know if anybody can understand this, because all you have is my relaying of events 2 go on, but I suspect most of you've experienced this very same thing many times: I got no answer 2 my question. We had a conversation about Penny's suggestion 2 me that we focus on the fu2re (I didn't go in2 detail about it, but she said 2 focus for now on helping my W build her dream). We had a conversation about the childish fairyland way the Reagans' marriage is being depicted by the media. And we had a conversation about how I am keeping my W from doing what she wants/needs 2 do - talk 2 RM - and that she has no intention of keeping that up indefinitely. She says it's good not 2 focus on the past, but I believe that her "plan" would be that I forget it. Forgetting begets repeating and does nothing 2 address forgiveness or rebuild trust.

I'm so damned tired. And I'm supposed 2 go 2 her OOSP next week and help her "build her dream." I don't think I want 2 go.

-ol' 2long

OK, I understand why you don't want to go. What does your coach say (I think I know.)

What are you going to do with your "feelings?"

Can you find some *reason* to really want to go? Can she help you want to go? That is part of PoJA, it works best when you can help each other *want* to do it. Talk to her - perhaps there is something she can do for you to help you want to go. Perhaps there is something you can do for her so she will want to help you. It sounds kind of calculating, but it often works for us.

SS

<small>[ June 09, 2004, 06:06 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

2long - I think I would take Penny's advice. What you have been doing so far has not worked that well. Go for it.

and then there's ark. I haven't gotten ark on this one yet, either.

2long...do me a favor please...read my latest response to ASH...posted this morning...

change the wording a little...
add some 2's where appropriate... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />
skip the preaching.....

let me know what you think...

ARK