Warning - Long

Hi everybody
I'm new to the site and only discovered it yesterday, so I'm not to clued up with the pecking order, acronyms and normal house keeping. Please forgive me if I do make a stuff up of any of these.

I don't know if I should be worried, or if I'm just full off bull.
The story goes more or less like this :

In January 04 I was transferred to a town 1400 km away from where we stayed for the last 8 years. My W would follow at the end of 04 as she had work commitments to fulfill and our D is in her final school year.

On Valentines my W told me that she received a red rose under her car's wiper blade, but she didn't know who it was from. I left it at that, seeing that it was Valentines and people do send all kinds of anonymous cards, flowers etc.

A few weeks later my MIL went and visited my W for two weeks. I phone my W every evening and during this time my W started telling me about this neighbor that is so nice to my MIL by supplying her with DVD's, videos etc. At a later stage my wife told me that this neighbor ( let me start calling him the OM ) was just as good to our D by lending her books and helping out with projects. Still later my W told me that the OM helped her with some stuff that needs to be done in the house and so forth. At the end of the day it felt to me that this OM became a part of my life as his name would crop up at least once in every conversation me and my W had. It later became clear that this OM was the guy who put the red rose on W's car on Valentine's day. I became suspicious at this stage.

In the beginning of May 04 it so happened that due to work pressure I had to return to the town where my W stays for a short visit. I didn't let anybody know and intended it as a surprise.

On my arrival at the house only my D was at home, and at my request she informed me that my W was at OM's house. I had a look-see through the house while she wasn't there, but couldn't find any evidence that my W was having an A. W came home later and I didn't say anything. W explained that she had to sort out some business with OM.

I still didn't say anything and pretended that everything is fine. The next day I started snooping around and found a text message on my W cell to the effect that she and OM should meet each other at the bank. I knew nothing about this, so I went to the bank to surprise the 2 of them. I found them at the bank where my W was drawing money to the tune of $10000 and giving it to OM.

When I questioned her she told me that she entered into an investment scheme with OM and wanted to surprise me. I lost my cool completely and LB'd big time. It is a pity I haven't found this site earlier!! The end of it is that my W explained to me that the deal is done and she must have contact with OM for at least the next 2 months until dividends is payed out and her money is returned, but that it will only be in a business sense. I said to my wife that I don't want the OM to have any contact with anybody in my family – especially when I'm not there. My W agreed to this.

I had to return to the town where I'm currently staying and me and my W kept on phoning each other every day. Over the next two weeks I realized that OM is still hanging around at my home and helping with some chores etc while I'm not there, so he is still part of my life and I don't want him to be part of my life.

The question is :
Am I just paranoid or do you guys think I have reason for concern ?
Keep in mind that I could find absolutely no evidence of an A going on unless it's staring me in the face and I'm to stupid to recognize it for what it is.

I must state that I have organized with my employer to move back to my original city, but that can only happen in August 04, so there is still 2 months of sleepless nights ahead.

Little background info :
Me – 40 yrs
W – 38 yrs
D – 18 yrs
M – 5 yrs

Any and all ideas will be appreciated.

RC,
You did a great job for your first post. I hate to welcome newcomers bc it's no fun being here. Anyway glad you found MB.

OK now to your question. I'm not sure how old you are but did you ever see the TV show, Lost in Space, as a kid? The Robinson family had a robot that was constantly saying:

WARNING, WILL ROBINSON! WARNING, WILL ROBINSON! DANGER! DANGER!

Well today your name is Will Robinson!

You should be very concerned. If I were in your shoes I'd get myself transferred back to the town where your family is, immediately.

Alot of affairs start in similar fashion. The WS talks up a neighbor, co-worker, etc. If she still talks him up that may be good news ie only an emotional affair EA. Usually they go quiet when it becomes physical PA.

So my guess from the info you've supplied is that the OM started meeting her needs for conversation, affection and definitely domicile support.

The $10,000 is another red flag. Was it your $$ as well? Sounded like it. Her story of a surprise is just that a story. Most spouses would never think of investing let alone spending $10,000 without consulting the other spaouse.

Did she tell you details of the investment? What did your daughter say about "Uncle Harry?"

Start Plan A today. Don't LB. If you are concerned about something you must be very patient.

Make a deal with your wife that you'll handle the domestic chores on the weekends. Get yourself there every weekend at a minimum. I'd even quit my job over this.

What sort of conversations have you and your W had about all of this? She saying that you're being silly?

I'd calmly tell her that despite her assurances you are very concerned about this guy infringing on the marriage. She'll say," you don't trust me."
Your response should be that you primarily don't trust him and that you know that your absence has been rough on the family, her especially.

You haven't been there to show affection and to support her around the house. And all the nightly calls are good you'd rather be there in person.

How did OM respond to all of this? Did you actually see her hand him a cheque? What's the investment?

Give a few more details.

cwmac

Hi Royal - welcome to this site and don't worry too much about the housekeeping. There's a post permanently near the top of the Just Found Out board that has acronymns.

Hmmmmm - if your wife was having a classic affair, she likely would not be so open about talking about this guy. That said, some affairs start out as platonic friendships and eventually progress.

What else do you know about this guy? Does he have a family? Who else knows him?

It's possible that he's a con artist who is only after your money and he's using your wife merely as a conduit. Sure, maybe he'd boink your wife in the process, to gain her "trust" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> , but the money aspect of this is NOT classic affair stuff.

Tell us more, but your best course may be to assume it's a romantic affair and learn here about Plan A and implement Plan A - this can never hurt anything, affair or not! Ride this out until Aug., get home, and reassess everything from close in. Then, if you determine it wasn't an affair after all. you're taht much ahead in improving your marriage anyway.

In the meantime, approach this with your wife as if she is NOT having an affair, but is being victimized by a con artist. What was this investment for? A perpetual motion machine? If you can find that out, maybe it'll shed some light on any potential scam underway that your wife may reassess with the benefit your rationalality. Also, don't make demands, and don't love bust - you'll learn what that means as you get more familiar with MB concepts.

RC,
A few more thoughts:

Read everything on the MB site if you haven't already.


Let's assume that your wife is caught up in an EA although she will not recognize it as such. MB has great info on How to Survive Affairs etc.

IMHO Dr Harley's definition of EA is a bit vague. I'd suggest you immediately buy, "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass.

It gives a strong definition of an EA, containing three elements:

-Secrecy: Spouses tend to keep alot of the info of their dealings with OP secret. Yes, they'll tell you the mundane info. "he leped me clean house." They forget to add then he took me out to a fantastic lunch at this cozy cafe.

That's a lie of ommissin vs a direct lie of commission.

Intimacy: They start to share info with each other. "My H has made me angry bc he took this job so far away." Or they'll just share their likes and dislikes. Just like you and your W did during your courtship.


Sexual Chemistry: They notice that they feel a thrill (adrenaline pumping ) when the OP is around. Women will think of the OP is emotional terms. Men will think of OP in sexual terms. IMHO a majoroty of the time womwn are not even consciously aware of this. Men usually are bc well wha tdo studies say about men? That we think about sex every _____ minutes (can't remember the amount of time)

Once all of this is in place. All you need is for one party to sahre the feelings with the other party and "it's off to the races."

Normally it takes 4-6 months for the typical married woaman to get to the emotional level at which they can rationalize sex. So You see why you need to get home every weekend and transfer within just a few weeks?


BUY the book today BUT do not try to indoctrinate your wife on its premise. She won't listen that goes for the MB principles as well.

No Love Busting during this period!!!!

cwmac

cwmac and I are not disagreeing here. He's being a bit more cautious than I and maybe he's "more" right. I hope he's wrong. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Royal - please tell us more. Tell us everything you know about this guy and his "investment." Tell us about your wife - is she naive? Has she complained to you about your relationship? Do you have complaints about your relationship? Can you consult with your MIL to get her take on all this?

WAT

RC,
I agree with WAT. We are saying the same thing but just with differing levels of how drastically you should treat this threat.

At a minimum it may be just a financial threat. A con artist or someone in desperate need of $$ for their scheme.

Hopefully it's no more than that, but the close proximity may have led furhter. I, like WAT, hope that I'm wrong.

I'm putting myself in your shoes for a minute, but I'm still seeing your situation thru my perspective and my life.

I wish I had found MB 6 months into my W reconnecting with her OM. If I had, we may have avoided soooo much pain. That was about the time that my wife decided it would be OK to have sex with OM. That led to "falling in love" or did falling in love leed to sex?

Had I found MB and had I told my story I believe that the MBers at the time, would have said RED FLAG! I wouldn't have wanted to believe them but they would in the end have been right.

Again I hope I'm wrong! BTW, there is such a thing as a "Look but don't Touch Affair" Here at MB we call them EAs.

Only you truely know your sitation. I don't know you or your wife. Nor am I a liscensed marriage counselor. Having said that there are common threads to all marriages whether touched by infidelity or not.

my best,

cwmac

<small>[ June 01, 2004, 01:24 PM: Message edited by: cwmac ]</small>

Hi Guys
Thanx cwmac & worthatry for all the responses.

Now to answer the questions :
I'm 40 years old, and I'm afraid that I haven't seen Lost in Space. I'm living in South Africa and stuff get to us a bit slower or not at all.
About being transferred back immediately – that is not possible at this stage. I'm committed to train somebody first to take my place before I could go back home. I think that I will fly up and down every weekend, and I hope that will make a difference.

With regards to the $10,000 – it is money that my W got from a pension fund scheme at her work. It is her money, but my opinion was that it would be a lot better to invest it in a trust fund or something similar. I must honestly say that I think my W was extremely stupid in this instance. She had to draw the money in cash and hand it over in cash. I have confronted OM with this totally daft scenario and his explanation was that they are a lot of people putting money in for a German company to take over a mining company which will then be stripped of it's assets. Everybody's investment will then be given back with a dividend. Like I said in my original post – I went ballistic and LB'd big time. I said a lot of things that shouldn't be said. The other thing that bothers me extremely is that after I went through the roof my W still decided, stuff me, and gave the money to this peanut. Hells Bells – this is confusing!! My W don't even have a receipt for the money and took this OM's word. I demanded a receipt or some kind of documentation which till today I haven't received. I wanted to touch the subject again, but are scared of LB'ing.

About my D. She actually is my step D from my W previous marriage. Although I'm doing financially quite well it seems to me that OM is doing a bit better than I am. As my D is very materialistic I have the idea that she might prefer OM above me, but I'm not sure. I haven't discussed the matter with her at all. The only thing I did was when I were home for that short while I took all the books OM lent her and dropped it off at his house. Needless to say – I was not the flavor of the month in my D opinion.

About my W. I have never experienced her as naive until this deal. I think the big problem is that she can't see anything bad in people until it comes up to her and bite her in the backside. I never experienced our M as being in jeopardy and she never expressed any feelings that something might be wrong. I don't think my MIL will be of any help in this instance as she owes us some money, and I think she will stand and fall by her daughter's decisions regardless.

I have read a lot on the site in the last 2 days and basically decided to start Plan A. The only problem that remains is that OM is sitting with a lot of my W's money. I don't really know how to handle the situation.

The evening ( after the bank episode ) when I was calmer I discussed the whole story with my wife, and as you rightly said, she accused me of chasing up ghosts that doesn't exist. I basically said to her that I'm blaming myself for neglecting her to such an extent that she had to find other company. I also told her that I trust OM as far as I can throw him, and that is not very far as he is about twice as heavy as I am.

I have confronted OM and his specific words was that I'm making something out of nothing, and that he think I am very lucky to have such a wife and that he have the utmost respect for both of us and blah blah blah ...........

I haven't seen the money actually change hands, but he brought the briefcase back the next day in which my W gave him the money. Hells Bells – sounds like a drug deal out of the movies !!!!

Other than the above there is not much more that I can tell. The OM is single and as far as I know have a girlfriend. That is about all I know about him.

RC,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I will fly up and down every weekend, </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good idea. Make every moment count. No LBs regarding the $$, the OM nor your suspicions. You are going to want to have "relationship" talks. Better idea is to meet all of her needs while your home.

Go to the Emotional Needs questionaire and try to figure out her top 3-5 needs and then do your best to meet them.

Most women have strong needs for financial support, domestic support, communication and affection. Of course, results may vary...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">With regards to the $10,000 – it is money that my W got from a pension fund scheme at her work. It is her money </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That qoute says it all. It's her money and as much as it may kill you that she may lose every Kungerand, it's her decision.

If your W views you as controlling this will make her even more upset that you dars tell her what she should do with the money.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I went ballistic and LB'd big time. I said a lot of things that shouldn't be said. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What LB's did you say? By knowing it may help WAT and I understand a bit more how your W feels.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I demanded a receipt or some kind of documentation which till today I haven't received. I wanted to touch the subject again, but are scared of LB'ing.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your intuition is right. I'd back off.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I have confronted OM and his specific words was that I'm making something out of nothing, and that he think I am very lucky to have such a wife and that he have the utmost respect for both of us and blah blah blah .......
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Don't listen to a word this guy says. As I said at a minimum he may be cheating your W out of the money. He is not your ally. I wouldn't even talk to him it'll just give him ammo to use with your W against you.

Sounds like MIL is a dead end. What is your R like with her? You said she owes you money?

Step-daughter is also a dead end. Best not to get a child involved. Leave it at simple questions like "where's your mom?" if she answers the phone while wife is away. What is your R like with her?

Part of Plan A is to be the best person you can be and to truely change into this person. Never hurst to improve on all Rs.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The OM is single and as far as I know have a girlfriend. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Too bad he's not married. An upset wife is asure fire way for things to end.

Do you have any other sources of potential evidence into a possible R? Cell phone bills or e-mails? Evethough he's in the same building and very proximate, they may communicate through these mediums while at work, on the way to the gym or late at night if he has a girlfriend.

In my situation, my wife did what all WS do: deny, deny, deny. I finally got the proof I needed by attaching a voice activated recorder to our phone line. Heard her telling OM how much she missed him etc etc.

Keep Plan Aing even when you don't think you have the strength to continue. Exercise like crazy. Keep on your drinking it becomes easy to self-medicate.

cwmac

ditto cw

This could all be a 10,000 lesson.

No way she'll ever see that money again.

But you know what? It could be a cheap lesson, all things considered.

Keep reading and learning and bouncing stuff off us.

WAT

Hi everybody

Sorry for taking so long to answer the questions, but got bogged down in work.

I'll try to list the stuff that I did say and consider as LB.

I started out by asking my W whether she is brainless.
I told my W that I blame her for the whole situation as she is the person who opened the gap for OM to make advances.
I actually accused my W of bonking OM although I couldn't find any evidence to this effect.
I accused her of applying strategic communication by telling me only what she think I should know.
I accused her that she treats me like a mushroom by keeping me in the dark and feeding me sh*t.
That is about all I can remember from that conversation.

My R with my MIL is OK, but not brilliant. The money that she owes us is when we helped her out after she ran into trouble with her charge card.

My R with my step-D is also OK but not brilliant. Both she and MIL will definitely take W side in the event of a showdown.

Enjoy and chat later again.

RC

It might be a good idea to give the police a call about this situation. They may know that this man has taken money from others. It just doesn't sound right at all. I know any transaction of $10,000 or more has to be reported by the bank. You might want to ask them about this.

You also might want to explain to OM that you're reporting this transaction to authorities. He will not want any public record of his dealings or anyone looking into his "Investments." Seeing the police at his home or an investigation might open her eyes. While it may be a LB, it would be better than losing more money to this creep.

People who often seem to be well off financially may in reality be in great debt. People who use others to separate them from their money, portray themselves as "wealthy" and in no need of their funds do so in order to gain confidence. If this man is so well off financially, why would he need your wife's money! He would certainly take his own money to invest and reap his own rewards, not give it to others. It just doesn't make sense!

I thought about calling the cops, but decided against it. I'll just stay in plan A fo now.