I'm going to apologize in advance, just in case this post is a bit long.

I was talking to my best friend last night on the phone. She has been with me all through the discovery of my husband's affair, and has helped me deal with the aftermath. She should be a psychiatrist...she just has this knack for listening.

She was hesitant at first to tell me this, but wanted my opinions on her situation, so I told her what I thought and promised that I would post her question. She's afraid to.

It turns out that she's seeing a married man. She knows that it's wrong, has broken it off several times, but this man always comes to her for support.

I asked her if his wife knew about their affair, and she said yes. In fact, the wife simply doesn't care. I guess she only wants her husband around for financial support. She has told her husband that she doesn't love him, and they haven't had sex in over a year. She has asked for a divorce, but he wants to wait for their 13 year old son to turn 18. I guess he's trying to spare his son as much pain as possible, but what difference would 5 years make?

I then asked my friend how she could trust him? Why is she allowing herself to sit on the back burner for 5 years and wait for him to leave his wife? If he cheated on his wife, what makes her think that he won't cheat on her, if they ever get married in the future?

My friend has told him numerous times to go back to his wife, and that she doesn't want to be the cause of their break-up. She never verbally bashes his wife. It's just that his wife treats him so poorly, that he doesn't want to remain married to her.

She's very domineering, and has literally taken over as head of the household. It's as if he doesn't exist. Since my situation was similiar, I can relate to this. However, I still loved my husband and sought to change my attitude, whereas this man's wife will not.

My friend is all torn up over this. She's been waiting for a good man to come into her life, and yet when one does, he's married!! She knows that this is wrong, because she knows that God disapproves of divorce. She knows that the only way God approves, is when one of the spouses has committed adultry. In this case, for divorce to be legitimate, it would have to be the wife that has committed adultry..but it's her husband.

My friend has been praying for God's will to be done in this situation. Even though this marriage may seem lost, perhaps He will bring the wife to her senses and she will realize what she's about to throw away???

For some reason, I just can't see God approving of a divorce and a re-marriage in this situation. But, who am I to question His thoughts on this?

I told my friend that it's best if she stepped out of the picture and let the situation work itself out. Either this man's wife will come to her senses and they'll seek out a counsellor, or they will get divorced. She's not helping matters, by being around to fulfill this man's EN's.

I've been through this situation myself, and not one person told us to get divorced. I made the painful discovery that I was treating my husband poorly and took the steps to correct it. Whereas the OW in my life was trying to steal my husband away from me, my friend is not trying to do that, at least deliberately.

I just don't know....does anyone have any advice that I can give her?

Edited to add: I did suggest that my friend read Not Just Friends, and advised her to tell this man to buy Dr. Laura's latest book for his wife. Perhaps this may help somewhat?

<small>[ June 02, 2004, 08:26 AM: Message edited by: Arabesque ]</small>

That's easy. Tell her to get out of the A. Whether MM ends up D is neither here nor there. He's married now. She doesn't need to pray to ask God's will--He's made it pretty clear where He stands on adultery. His "will" regarding adultery doesn't change on a case by case basis.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Arabesque:
<strong>I asked her if his wife knew about their affair, and she said yes. In fact, the wife simply doesn't care. I guess she only wants her husband around for financial support. She has told her husband that she doesn't love him, and they haven't had sex in over a year. She has asked for a divorce, but he wants to wait for their 13 year old son to turn 18.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why does your friend believe this?

Unless she heard it from the wife herself, it's likely typical infidelity lies. WSs lie to each other as much, if not more, than they lie to their spouses.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I asked her if his wife knew about their affair, and she said yes. In fact, the wife simply doesn't care. I guess she only wants her husband around for financial support. She has told her husband that she doesn't love him, and they haven't had sex in over a year. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And she knows this because she spoke to the wife herself? Or because this oh-so-honest MM told her this line of garbage?

Oops, I knew I had forgotten to add something in my original post.

I did ask her last night how certain she was that he was telling her the truth? Being that an affair is based on lies and deception, how does she know what's going on behind the scenes in his home?

I was really hesitant to post this question. I'm trying to be supportive for her, yet I don't agree with what she's doing. I guess when you experience something like this yourself, you tend to be more sensitive when someone you know goes through it.

Yes, you're right....she DOES need to step away from him and let things fall where they may.

<small>[ June 02, 2004, 09:18 AM: Message edited by: Arabesque ]</small>

There is absolutely NO logical, sane reason for your friend to believe ANYTHING that MM tells her about his wife/marriage!!!

And of course his wife has had to take over as head of household!!! That's one of the things we BS's get stuck with - having to be the responsible one and THEN being criticized for THAT too!

And even IF (yea right) the literally incredible story the MM told your friend were true, she STILL should stop committing adultery and let him deal with his marriage mess himself. NO MM deserves any 'support' from an OW. And even if he did manage to divorce his wife and marry your friend, it would still always be just adultery.

Hi Arabesque,

I'll chime in here too and say that I didn't have to get past the fourth paragraph to know what I was going to say to you.Your friend does need to get out of the A now.Tell her to at least read what we are saying if she is too afraid to post.

I agree that this man is probably telling her lies about the wife.If he can be involved in an A then he is not trustworthy.It will hurt but she has to end all contact with him.

Bottom line is the man isn't leaving his wife and she needs to move on.And I beg to differ on the idea that this man is the "good man" that has come into her life.Whatever he was feeding her wasn't truthful and it's not the best way to start a relationship of any kind.Plain and simple tell her to stop being involved with the guy.Tell her that what you are going through with your WH's A is exactly what this wife is going through.How could she live with herself knowing that she is an accomplice to hurting another woman and a child?

O

P.S. And tell your friend to GET OUT OF DENIAL.

<small>[ June 02, 2004, 09:27 AM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

Oops, I knew I had forgotten to add something in my original post.

I did ask her last night how certain she was that he was telling her the truth? Being that an affair is based on lies and deception, how does she know what's going on behind the scenes in his home?
Don't leave us hanging!!!
What was her response?

She told me that she believes what he is telling her. I then asked her how sure of this is she? Her response was that he wouldn't lie to her, he is not that type of person.

Well, I used to think the same of my husband. He would never cheat on me, would he? Look at where that delusion got me.....

I really feel sorry for her...she has had so much heartache in her life and now that a man comes into her life in which she can "help", she seems more than willing to put her morales and Christian beliefs aside for the sake of "being needed".

I told her that it seems to me that she has a "savior complex" in which she thinks that the relationship is justified by her sticking by this man and helping him through his "problems". Kind of like if you were to stay married to a drug addict (etc) in the belief that only you can help them get over their addiction.

Sorry...I should have thought about what I was going to post a bit more thoroughly before I posed the questions. I talked to her about this for over 2 hours last night and it's obvious that I forgot some of the finer details. Thinking about it now, as I'm typing this, I guess I was trying not to hurt her feelings, but after what I've just been through, I guess I should have been a little more tough on her. In fact, when she told me about her affair, I simply couldn't believe it!! She's been such a wonderful friend to me throughout all of this, and here she is, doing the same thing to someone else, even though she had never intended it to go this far. But then again, from what I've read, alot of affairs begin this way. It's afterwards, when things start getting deep that the two people involved are powerless or unwilling to end it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> She told me that she believes what he is telling her. I then asked her how sure of this is she? Her response was that he wouldn't lie to her, he is not that type of person. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How did you keep from laughing out loud at this??????

OK, here's my suggestion. Print out this post - after you get a few more replies - and give it to her.

To Arabesque's friend: You are headed toward a disaster. Correction: You're IN a disaster!!!Please read this printout over and over until you understand what were're telling you.

RUN LIKE HELL!!! Do NOT look back!!

You have everything to lose from this relationship and NOTHING to gain.

If you think we just don't understand, please come on this forum and help us understand. Just be prepared to have a new understanding yourself.

WAT

<small>[ June 02, 2004, 01:49 PM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

We sent her the link to this particular thread.

I pray that it opens her eyes.

i just have to jump in here too.

Arabesque,

You probably know my story but I was involved with a married am (who am I trying to kid, I probably still am) and I was alone for a long time before I met him. I didn't know he was married for eight months. When I found out I told him to get out of my life, which he did for three months, and then I proceeded to almost have a nervouse breakdown.

To make a long story short he came back after three months with proof that he had filed for divorce and I took him back. I then bought two properties for us and a third which I put his name on. (duh)

Now after two years of living with him, making my life hell and his, because I don't believe a SINGLE WORD he says, I break up with him. And now I am in a different kind of hell, missing him like crazy and doubting my decision every other hour.

If your friend ends it with him he will do one of two things - end his marriage and come back, or - stay with his wife and find someone else to have an affair with. But if he comes back to her she may just not be able to trust him and that is worse than anything I have ever experienced in a relationship.

Weaver

Correction - what I meant to say was you probably DON'T know my story. Sorry

Well, there is a saying that fits this.

I heard it here years ago. "When an OW marries the MM, she creates a vacancy for her old position."

Your friend needs to really think about this hard. The statistics are very clear only about 3% of marriages from affairs work. Why, because the same baggage is brought into the marriage.

Your friend needs to find a man that will "help" her, not one that she can "help". In another words, if you go looking for trouble you will find it, and it very rare that anyone can help another person out of the trouble ("help them") unless they want the help in which case they didn't need the help.

Her MM is in trouble in his marriage, even if you believe all that he has said, and I like WAT and others I believe little of it. Further, she will have to "wait" 5 years for him to divorce, IF his story is true, meanwhile he gets the best of both worlds, and she gets to miss the opportunity to meet the man that could make her happy.

By any measure she is getting the shaft, and he is getting his cake and he gets to eat it as well.

I do hope she comes here. We will talk with her. If she doesn't want to post have her read the stories here. I think it will open her eyes. Do you realize how many people have come here having been fed such stories by the married person?? A LOT!

Tell her I wish her good luck, but I would strongly recommend not leaving her life to luck, and get out of this mess.

God Bless,

JL

While i find your friends absolute typical fall filled erroneous babble....what concerns me more is your reaction and waffling on what is right and wrong.....

am I telling you to dump your friend and villify her...absolutely not...
but I am telling you to be very wary of selling your own beliefs and morals in an attempt to remain connected...

here are your comments that make me sigh..

I guess he's trying to spare his son as much pain as possible, but what difference would 5 years make?

this where the rubber meets the road...this is where no matter the fogged up blather of how bad his wife is...
and that even more chilling betraying spouse bold out lie to his mistress...

asked her if his wife knew about their affair, and she said yes. In fact, the wife simply doesn't care.

show me a wife who doesn't really care that they are being betrayed.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

but the idea that he should just leave the wife for your friend...and THAT would fix this.

the damage.
the pain
the hurt....

lets just talk about the childs pain and hurt..


all due to your friend...
what deserves to be supported in that...

if that OP marriage sucks...there is nothing in the acts of an affair that will fix that...

this is a slippy slope that you need to see clearly your own boundaries....
ALL acts of friends do not deserve or warrant our support....

watch this slope or soon you will be expected to
have your friend and OM over for dinner some night soon??


you said....
Whereas the OW in my life was trying to steal my husband away from me, my friend is not trying to do that, at least deliberately.

yes I can see clearly where she has the childs needs and protection as her priority...

you said...
I told her that it seems to me that she has a "savior complex" in which she thinks that the relationship is justified by her sticking by this man and helping him through his "problems". Kind of like if you were to stay married to a drug addict (etc) in the belief that only you can help them get over their addiction.

yes poor victim..can't help but be part of destroying a marriage.....

arabesque....I mena you no malace with this...but you are not helping your friend with anything of value if you attempt to join with her in her rationalizing and validating her affair...

you need to keep YOUR priorities straight.

ark....

Wow Ark,

That was incredible. I wish I would have met you when I found out my BF was married, and before I went back with him. You would have scared me into not taking him back.

I don't want to hear from you now though. I know what you would have to say to me... and I'm getting back 10 fold the pain I have caused. It was his fault at first, but it was my fault for ever talking to him again. And I truely hope that her pain is gone now after all this time, but I know it is probably not.

I don't want to hear from you now though. I know what you would have to say to me... and I'm getting back 10 fold the pain I have caused.


weaver...I think you would find yourself pleasantly surprised that you would be wrong about me...

I abhor affairs....based on the gross disrespect they bring to all beings...the OP...the BS...even
to the person wayward spouse...

so much pain

i advocate for all person in this sick triangele..to cease their role in it..
and choose out of the chaos..

ark

Originally posted by Arabesque:


"I really feel sorry for her...she has had so much heartache in her life and now that a man comes into her life in which she can "help", she seems more than willing to put her morales and Christian beliefs aside for the sake of "being needed"."

Come again...???

Why do you feel sorry for her???

I think your life has entirely enough drama for now. You have the OW restraining order in place in your own marriage ... OW's a psycho wack-job who sends threatening messages...

and meanwhile....

you are actually listening sympathetically to this friend of yours as she works her way into another woman's marriage????

Really ... in what way is sympathy to your friend's poor choices an adequate response?

Pep

I was reading Ark's response to my question and I noticed that the comment about what difference would 5 years make didn't come off as the way that I had intended it to. Usually, I'll double check to see if anything I've posted makes sense before hitting the submit button.

Sorry.

What I had meant by that comment was that the son is going to get hurt, no matter what, so why is this man wanting to prolong the agony of everyone involved? Because he's wanting to have his cake and eat it too.

Why is my friend willing to "wait" for 5 years for him to divorce his wife? Why is she involved with this man in the first place, when she just got done listening to me scream and cry for the past 3 months over the phone?

Please...I know it may seem that I'm defending her actions, but she knows that I don't agree with what she's doing. I started to believe what the man had told her. I was believing the lies, right along with her. Geez, how much more gullible can I be?

I guess I didn't learn much over the past couple of months, did I? I can tell you how it feels to be on the BS side, but not on the OP side. Perhaps I shouldn't have given her advice on something that I had no experience on. And no...I wouldn't dare look to start an affair just to find out either!! Yes, that was a poor attempt at a joke, sorry.

Seriously though, alot of you have given me a few things to think about. I can take constructive criticism, and I realize that I went about talking to her the wrong way. I wanted to support her, without getting too tough on her, but I guess in a case like this, tough love may be the only thing that will reach her.

I think it's a good time to make a phone call......

Thanks everyone!!

Arabesque,

I think you are missing something. I know for me and I suspect for most of the posters the messages are NOT for you, but for you to relay to your friend. I know it seems people are on your case, but I don't that is the situation.

I and I think others are trying to supply you with ammunition to use when talking with her. You know the saying "friends don't let friends..." You will be doing this woman a huge favor if you are firm with her about what she is doing.

Yes, she will go through withdrawal if she heeds you advice, but you can help her there with the sympathetic shoulder, but right now, she needs to hear the "straight skinny", the "unvarnished truth", "THE WORD",... She is wrong, and she is hurting a family AND herself with this affair.

So relax, it is clear your heart is in the right place. The trick will be getting your friends head in the right place. Right now you are dealing with a "alien abduction", or is it the "moose worm" infestation that WAT likes so much. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Do your best to help her as she did you, but in her case the same sympathetic approach probably will not help her as it did you.

Good luck and God Bless,

JL