I got an email from a counselor and friend that I work with this morning telling me that a couple of coworkers got married over the weekend. It is the second M for both, his D was final a couple of years ago, she left her H to persue a relationship with him. This is sort of a touchy subject for me and probably others here. I wrote back to her that I hope everybody is happy and that hopefully there wasn't too much damage done to her 1st family. Besides being a counselor, she is also an attorney (no longer practicing because she found it to be too depressing), very intelligent, and just an all 'round good person. Here is her response:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i know her leaving her husband is a sore spot for you but K has not been happy for a couple of years and neither was (her new H). i think all the kids are okay with it since they knew all of the parents were not happy. just like you and as bad as you hate to hear this your ex-wife to be , you both deserve to live your life happy.( okay even my ex, too) one of these days when you discover that you really are happy you will see just how much you were only surviving, not really living. to find someone who you know loves you to the center of their soul will be an experience that you have not had yet. how do i know that for sure??? well, if your ex-wife and you were that for each other you would not be able to stay apart... sometimes we are too far in the forest to see the trees, that my friend is where you are. not that it's your fault anyone divorcing can't see the trees for a while anyway. you are a good man, jeff... i pray for your peace of mind and happiness every morning. i have always prayed each morning for those i work with but since you told us about the divorce i have not failed to pray for you by name. when you break out of the forest, you will feel different than you ever have . a new life is waiting for you. yes, it will be different.. but different is not always bad. okay , i'm off my counselor soapbox
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Made me feel a little better about my unwanted D, maybe it will help some others too.

Was this an A between two co-worker and then got married or one co-worker that just got remarried to someone else outside the office.
DP

DJ, i'm glad you felt good w/her response because i actually didn't see it that way. granted i know nothing about your story, etc. i'm not saying it sounded bad only that the whole happiness thing made me a little weary because WE KNOW that feelings can change and often the WS is more in a pursuit of happiness because they are experiencing happiness now. didn't they once feel that way about us (BS)?

anyway, prayers to you.

Possibly I'm missing something here, but I don't know that this counselor does anybody any favors if "finding happiness" at the expense of giving up on a marriage and destroying a family is what she is saying. This is why our society tolerates throw away marriages instead of encouraging "recycling." (Hmmmm - maybe we can get the environmental movement to help?)

Affair partners who end up divorcing their BSs typically rely on "the marriage was already dead" rationale (complete with a healthy dose of revisionist history) and justify the affair and the divorce on this basis. What they frequently don't do is recognize that the affair is preventing any marital recovery, that marital recovery is likely, and don't give working on the marriage a try first, before seeking a divorce.

This was the basis for my MB name: worthatry

Why don't you challenge her on this and tell us what she says?

WAT

DJ,
That kind of thinking is pure selfishness and should be rejected. It is exactly why marriages fail, because people don't want to put the effort into themselves to change, they want to blame thier spouse in an effort to justify their actions. Its giving you the message that its okay to break vows and promises b/c you're not happy. I'm sorry, but you need a better couselor.
I hope you are able to come out of this a better person than that and not carry that baggage with you.

Christ's Love,
Roman121

I don't know who this woman is praying to, but my God tells us that adultery is wrong and there are consequences. Nowhere in the Bible does God tell us that our own personal happiness is to be sought at the expense of others especially innocent children.

True happiness comes in our service to others. That's exactly the model that Jesus laid before us to follow. It's a shame that this woman who has obviously seen the down side of life both as an attorney and counselor, hasn't discovered that. It's so sad that so few seem to understand that.

This is just another example of "fog talk." Wonder what she'll say when this relationship fails too. I guess she'll be able to see yet another forest. My guess she's at the beach looking out at the sea and imagines herself to see those trees. She's dilusional.

glad i wasn't the only one that thought what she said was sketchy. i'm pretty sure that she isn't his counselor only a friend that happens to be a counselor/attorney. because if she was his counselor and sent a message like that then she could be sued/suspended for unethical conduct, etc.

<small>[ June 02, 2004, 11:52 AM: Message edited by: roughroad ]</small>

The A was between 2 coworkers. She is a coworker. Her job is counselor, mostly to people w/ drug addiction problems. She is also a friend and tends to see the glass half full, a perspective I need somtimes because I'm not like that. She is of the opinion, and probably rightly so, that my marriage will not be saved. I am trying to get used to the idea myself. DV-Day isn't far off. WW and OM seem to be in a state of bliss. I can't save it by myself. I don't know if I could ever get over the years of lies and deceit.

R121: I didn't break my vows, my WW did. I have told WW that I am still willing to work things out and be a family again but in reality I don't know that I can.

jph: Where did she say that adultry isn't wrong?

Deafjeff,

With all due respect,I do not think that this counselor friend is thinking altogether clearly.The notion that we all can or should find that one person that loves you to the center of your soul WREAKS of that soulmate excuse.And THEN to blame you for not still being with your wife because of it??!!

I was chomping at the bit to tell you that that is wrong.EVERY relationship goes through changes and it never stays the same.I challenge anyone to actually tell me that their marriage had remained 100% happy and glorified for years and years without any problems, issues or baggage.It sounds like one big heaping spoonful of rationalization to me.

And the statement of deserving to live your life happy and that the kids are ok.Geeze.Has this woman had an A in her past too or is she in one? Again,it seems the residue of an A is stuck to this response from the friend.

O

<small>[ June 02, 2004, 01:17 PM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

She is a BS, her ex was a serial WH. Outside of the MB group I think most people see infidelity as a done deal marriage ender. I'm not sure that is wrong. I don't think she was blaming me for not being with my WW, she is the one that moved out and that was pre D-Day. She, I, everyone I know, don't think that a marriage never changes. Everything changes. Hear David Bowie singing- Chachachanges...................

Okay DeafJeff I'll take the other view on your friend, the couselor.

I think she wrote a wonderful letter to you about hope on the other side of divorce. Divorces do happen and adultry does happen. Are we supposed to forever stay in judgement? no.

I think it was wonderful for her to explain that you can't see it but that eventually you will be able to see that happiness is around the corner for you.

She was pointing the good side of a bad situation.

Okay, and here is my but . . . the idea of wishing the best for those that commit A is just not that popular on this site (i.e. the posts on this thread) We're here to SAVE our marriages and the pain is to great or raw or whatever to think that in truth "sometimes" divorces happen and "sometimes" people are much happier.

I don't know your story so I can't comment on where you are at. But I appreciate you sharing your letter from your friend.
In fact, tears came to my eyes when I read about being in the forrest and not seeing the trees.
As in fact, that is how I feel.
I don't know if my WH will grab my hand and together we will see the trees or that I will wonder amelessly in search of a clearing with some sunshine on my own.
For me personally I want my WH hand to be in my hand and we find the trees together.
But there is no doubt, we are in a forrest.

Okay DeafJeff I'll take the other view on your friend, the couselor.

I think she wrote a wonderful letter to you about hope on the other side of divorce. Divorces do happen and adultry does happen. Are we supposed to forever stay in judgement? no.

I think it was wonderful for her to explain that you can't see it but that eventually you will be able to see that happiness is around the corner for you.

She was pointing the good side of a bad situation.

Okay, and here is my but . . . the idea of wishing the best for those that commit A is just not that popular on this site (i.e. the posts on this thread) We're here to SAVE our marriages and the pain is to great or raw or whatever to think that in truth "sometimes" divorces happen and "sometimes" people are much happier.

I don't know your story so I can't comment on where you are at. But I appreciate you sharing your letter from your friend.
In fact, tears came to my eyes when I read about being in the forrest and not seeing the trees.
As in fact, that is how I feel.
I don't know if my WH will grab my hand and together we will see the trees or that I will wonder amelessly in search of a clearing with some sunshine on my own.
For me personally I want my WH hand to be in my hand and we find the trees together.
But there is no doubt, we are in a forrest.

Okay DeafJeff I'll take the other view on your friend, the couselor.

I think she wrote a wonderful letter to you about hope on the other side of divorce. Divorces do happen and adultry does happen. Are we supposed to forever stay in judgement? no.

I think it was wonderful for her to explain that you can't see it but that eventually you will be able to see that happiness is around the corner for you.

She was pointing the good side of a bad situation.

Okay, and here is my but . . . the idea of wishing the best for those that commit A is just not that popular on this site (i.e. the posts on this thread) We're here to SAVE our marriages and the pain is to great or raw or whatever to think that in truth "sometimes" divorces happen and "sometimes" people are much happier.

I don't know your story so I can't comment on where you are at. But I appreciate you sharing your letter from your friend.
In fact, tears came to my eyes when I read about being in the forrest and not seeing the trees.
As in fact, that is how I feel.
I don't know if my WH will grab my hand and together we will see the trees or that I will wonder amelessly in search of a clearing with some sunshine on my own.
For me personally I want my WH hand to be in my hand and we find the trees together.
But there is no doubt, we are in a forrest.

Jeff,

It's just irksome when I hear that people are forever looking elswhere for their happiness when the answer rests within themselves.I'm not saying every couple should stay married,such as cases of physical abuse and so on BUT from reading here for the last 7-8 months,it sounds like WS's seem incapable of opening up to their spouse to disuss their feelings in depth and instead choose to seek their needs or whatever elswhere from other's they know only weeks or less,maybe months and commit adultery.

Some people do try to get their spouses attention like I think Melodylane's H did for while(if I am remembering correctly) but there seems to be this entitlement wave sweeping the country and it includes: if you are not 100% happy all the time you are missing out! Go out there and find it! That one true love that is a clone of yourself so that you'll never have any problems ever again!Find your soulmate now! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I posted a link to an article in Psychology Today a while back that touched on this and rang very true to me.

My WH told me just the other night that a big part of what he is trying to figure out is WHY he didn't open up to me and tell me how unhappy he was(didn't know he was until he met homewrecker!) or why he didn't seek help long before he committed adultery.He agreed that he never once sat me down to say anything about how he was feeling or why he withdrew.I admit that for my WH,the only issue that he had with me was affection.I wasn't always affectionate because he works long hours(really long hours) on movies and was not home quite a bit during many years of our marriage so when it came time for him to need some affection,hugs,kisses,I was tired or mad.Granted this was not all the time.

I have both families and many friends who knew us that always thought of us as the perfect couple.Always holding hands,saying I love you several times a day,EVERY day,things like that so I know WH is rewriting history a bit here.My WH also did NOT guard his heart and mind when he was around other women.He was a flirt and we have had issues with other women in the past only not so severe.He likes the attention.And he knows this is a problem because he could wind up doing it to the homewrcker one day as well.

Anyway,I digress.My point is that there are no perfect marriages ever.We can all try to do our best,learn,laugh,live.But if seeking out another person to fill needs instead of from the ones we promised to love,honor and cherish and wreak havoc within our families by such abhorrent betrayal and selfishness,then I feel sorry for our children and their children.The divorce rate will never decrease as I told someone else,and more and more men and women will be horribly hurt by infidelity.

O

<small>[ June 02, 2004, 01:39 PM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

DJ,
Sorry for the heavy hit on your friend, but it really came across wrong. Also, I know you are the BS. I know you did not break you vows and I am sorry for your pain. Please continue to come back. Maybe your friend should consider this site. It is a place of healing and growth and all can benefit from it.

Christ's Love,
Roman121

WF: Thanks for seeing the positive side. Part of my response to the news that prompted her to write this to was "I hope there wasn’t too much damage done and everybody is happy.". As she has first hand experience with the harm done, she is as aware as any of us as to the damage that can be caused.
My story: My wife moved out with me not knowing we even had a problem. I have since found out about 2 As, one about 7 years ago and the current one. We have chosen attorneys and are fighting over custody. DV-Day is Aug. 2nd. I would like to work things out and be a family again, sometimes- sometimes no way. WW and OM seem to be in bliss and time is running out for a turn around. I think thats as briefly as I have ever put it!

O: I'm not saying its right but it is what is. Sad fact is people cheat, families are torn apart, marriages are destroyed. Not everyone can turn their M around after the deed is done. Some can't even if we wanted to. I might be in that category, sometimes I want my M to be saved but noone can do it alone. It takes at least 2.

DJ,

I agree with you that it takes two to make a marriage work.That is why I am on the verge of a D because my WH refuses to work on it and admits it at every turn.But yet he'll sit there on some days and say that he wouldn't be talking to me if he thought we were over? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Fogspeak again.

Anyway,I didn't mean to imply that you thought an A is right.What I am increasingly angered about is this ACCEPTANCE.Yes,we all know that it's a sad fact that A's happen but where is the OUTRAGE? Why aren't we as a country doing more to prevent this from happening? Why isn't,for example,MB mandatory for couples thinking about marriage? Where is the education??

It's like watching a loved one continue to smoke even though they just had a lung removed.I would like a radical change to happen within our country and the world to stop this epidemic.I do NOT find it acceptable that we have such a high divorce rate and infidelity on the rise too.

Just like I think parenting classes should be mandatory,I think Marriage classes should be mandatory.These are two special experiences in our lives that we cannot afford to just wing it! I don't want this to happen to my daughters,so any man that attempts to marry one of them will be required to read MB first. Maybe I need to go to Washington and start a campaign!lol

O

<small>[ June 02, 2004, 02:45 PM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

Deaf Jeff,

If your M is really over (although unwanted by you), then you Do need to begin to look at your life and circumstances differently. Although I agree that what the friend said is not helpful to someone still in the struggle of repairing a M, there may be value in the words for someone in the process of moving on after a D. (??)

It appears she was responding more as a friend and less as a counselor. She just seemed to be trying to give out some encouragment to you, without really thinking about the impact of her words. (Then again not everyone prescribes to the MBers principals). Perhaps she does think like this.

In any case, You continue to find comfort and support wherever and whenever you can. (of course in a healthy sense). In addition, Glad to read that at least you found something that made you Feel a little better.
Maybe another person here can get something out of this quote. Thanks for sharing.

R121: I missed your post last time. No sweat, I understand. She has and I refer it to her often.

O: I agree infidelity and divorce are too easily accepted. You're talking about legislative action. I don't know what the number is but I bet the number of infidels in position to make the change is a pretty high %. Thy're not going to take action against themselves, just vote for another pay raise.

TR: Thank you.

Just a thought for Octobergirl - there's quite a lot of post here from you about recent conversations between you and WH. Aren't you supposed to be in PlanB?