i might as well just get it all out cuz it certainly is not doing me any good being the way i am right now. please understand what I am doing. I am posting how i am feeling right now. And I am posting it because when I feel this way I am not very happy which makes it hard to be very loving. And roman, sometimes this concept of just giving it to God is NOT something that helps me on a practical level!

I HATE THIS JOB AND I HATE THE FACT THAT MY H DOES NOT HAVE A JOB AND THAT THIS FAMILY WANTS THE THINGS THIS JOB PROVIDES!!!!

I know this is going to sound very selfish and braty but... why do i have to work so hard while my H gets to live such a carefree life and why doesn't it seem like he even appreciates the life he has cuz he is always so cranky???

another summer is starting and how i wish i could be with the kids more and instead i know i am going to have to constantly hear complaints about how they bicker and how cranky my H will be because of it. They bicker because they are not having fun. if i were home, we would be having picnics and bike rides and zoo trips and pool trips and train rides into the city and I'll never get another chance at having any of that and i am missing it!!!! and the kids are missing it and my H is too (fill in the blank) to come close to even understanding what he is missing, what we are all missing. and i really hate him for that!!!

and now he has so much more to be cranky about, i can't even begin to imagine how much this summer will be in comparison to the other summers.

and there is absolutely nothing i can do about any of this.

except pray.

sometimes i really wish i would have just set my heart in stone and quickly divorced him back in 2001.

i'm trying to think about the person he was beginning to become right before i confessed, but it is really hard. sometimes i wonder if i was really seeing him or if my view was really tainted by listening to all of you here.

for the majority of my relationship to this person he has been critical of me and of my family and of my friends and even of my job (even though this job has provided us with so much) and he has been unloving, uncaring and just plain not part of my life. the opposite of love IS indifferent and that is how he was for so long.

so please tell me, why am i supposed to be thinking a close relationship to this person is at all possible?????

Can't answer your question but I can say that you just described the last 10 years of my marriage.

Good place to vent. Can you talk to him about it? My shrink, when WW and I had problems last time and didn't know she had an A, said to me once "you just don't get it boy." I didn't know what he was talking about. Some of us are dense and have to be smacked square between the eyes to understand.

Hi FL~

I was so excited to read of the kiss. Now this. Such is the bumpy ride of recovery.

Has there been anymore discussion about you going into teaching? POJA?

I admire your honesty.

sorry--double

<small>[ June 02, 2004, 12:44 PM: Message edited by: autumnday ]</small>

into the black, sorry my description fits yours, it is no fun. hope things can improve for you.

deafjeff, i almost originally posted in your post about your friend/counselor's email. because sometimes i wonder if what she is saying might actually be right.

the topic of my desire to become a teacher was discussed in MC and it was stated there that if this is something i want, H should be supportive and as a couple, we should find a way to make it happen. that was at least 1 yr ago (and even before talking about it in MC, we had talked privately about it). H does NOT want to get it. It is more comfortable for him to just leave it be exactly as it is!!! i suppose that last stmt is very much a disrespectful judgement but what am i supposed to think?? he says he looks in the paper every sunday, photography jobs are hard to find.

HI AD!! nice to hear from you, thanks for posting. I don't know how to POJA this, H just wants me to figure out how to enjoy this job.

<small>[ June 02, 2004, 01:03 PM: Message edited by: FinallyLearning ]</small>

FL...I'm so sorry that you're having a rough day. I'm taking Lexapro and I would recommend it to anyone!!! Nothing has changed in my life but I am in a very chilled out mode!!!!

FL...If it helps, I hate my job too!!! I work with 3 [censored] men. One is of course the OM. The other is the good honest male friend whom I've worked with for 17 years and trusted and confided to after A ended. He made a play on me too. I guess he thought that if I was giving it away he might as well get in line too and the other is also a "friend" in whom I've worked with for 15 years who felt the need to spread this to another girl in the office. He hasn't spoken since I confronted him about it!!!

Sorry to thread-jack, this just seemed like a good thread to add some more venting to!!!

Hi FL,
I heard you calling my name. Great vent by the way, how are you today? I remember mentioning that until this job thing is resolved, your recovery will be stalled. I believe this goes way back and is only going to get better when you get out of that pressure cooker you're in. So you’re at a crossroads and really need to make some changes. I don’t know your financial situation, but what is the real economic cost of you going PT or even finding a completely different job? I get the feeling that your current employer may take advantage of your work ethic and ask you for extra hours if you did go PT.

So you need to examine the reality of the finances and find out what you can live without for now. I think for your M to progress, you must do this. It is not an option. Just think about the financial cost of D. Also, I truly believe that the H must provide the full financial support of the family and the W should supplement the income in other ways. Look at Proverbs 31. Look at the home based businesses today, many are geared for women. If anyone is offended by this notion, let me add that I will be sure my daughter will be fully equipped to support herself if that becomes her choice. I have taken great strides to insure that my W and family will not suffer financially if I die. I am not opposed to my W working; I just see that it is my God given responsibility to provide for her and the family.

I have in effect two FT jobs. I have my own business and my W's business. There is no pressure on her to add income to the family. I have told her she is free to do what she wants and I would always provide financial support for the family. Her income is welcomed and she can do with it as she pleases. I always help and support her in her work choices. She even said that I am her biggest cheerleader. I make sure I help with all aspects of the family including cleaning and cooking. The way I see it, either you can help you H with his work or he can help you start your own business. I see you do the taxes for his business. Have you ever considered working for a CPA firm during tax season? I know I always look for people like you to fill in the gaps on a PT or temporary FT basis. I don’t need much help in the summer and most women love having summers off. You could do that kind of work. You have tech skills and that is a huge plus. During that time you could go to school FT or PT to get that teaching degree.

I just see endless options for you and I know your H would support them. You know the budget and you know what expenses would drop if you did not work. You need to work on a plan and gain his support. I’ll bet there are others on this site that will give some of their experiences and ideas on how to get out of that hole you’re in. Ask for God’s guidance and let Him show you what will honor Him. He will be faithful and provide your need. I know you’re current job provides affirmation for you, but your family needs you more. Your kids are about the same age as mine and I know the pressures that places on you for your time. It would be better for everyone and your M if you became more flexible and less stressed. So quit burying this thing for another day. You can always get another job if you need to.

I hope this helps, because I believe you must do this. I have heard this before and it is not a vent. It is a real sore spot in your M. Please, consider and seek a better way.

Christ's Love,
Roman

I know how that goes. My H used to say the same thing when I told him I was unhappy in our M. He only said, find a way to be happy. It's very frustrating to hear.

This is one of the big issues in life, it's not a small thing, FL. Find a way to initiate a POJA.

Are you fearful about bringing up your heart's desire and needs because of the tenuous point you're at in your recovery? At some point, he needs to know just how serious you are about the topic.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Find a way to initiate a POJA.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">AD, now you sound like your husband!!! easy to tell me, not easy for me to do!!!

roman, yes this issue does go way back <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

i doubt i would get approval for pt at this job. the only new job i would want to look for is teaching and that does not pay as much as i make now, the only way for that to happen is if H finds a way to supplement. H is not willing to give up being a photographer therefore he does not want to take on any job that does not have enough flexiblity such that he can still accept photo jobs. there is no job out there that will just let you take off a day whenever you feel like it and/or on the spur of the moment.

the economic reality would be that we would have to sell the lake house.

it is great (for your W, that is) that you believe you should provide but my H does not believe the same thing!!! </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I just see endless options for you and I know your H would support them. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i have no idea on what basis you make that statement. my H wants me to stay put. he has told me that my wanting to quit and change careers is very irresponsible of me because the family counts on my paycheck, that if he had known i was going to want this, he would not of quit his job (12 yrs ago!!) and became a freelancer. 12 yrs ago when i was supporting his desire to be a freelance photographer, i did not know that meant i was going to be locked into this scenerio until retirement!!!

i am still cranky and it is time to go home.

on the upside, my daughter graduates 8th grade today <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ June 02, 2004, 03:45 PM: Message edited by: FinallyLearning ]</small>

Finally Learning, I have to say that I'm divided on this in that I don't think its one person should have to provide for another unless BOTH are in agreement. I worked for the first five years of my older son's life not because my H said I had too but because I felt it was necessary that I contribute. When I finally got up the courage to quit was when I realized life is too short to be doing something you don't like and your childrens childhoods are too short to miss out on. This A woke me up to the fact that although I loved being a mom I needed something for me so now I'm in my third year of college to be a teacher and I have never felt so fulfilled personally.
But your H sounds like he wants the lifestyle you provide even if your not happy. Why??? because he doesn't want to work. It sounds like 12 years ago when he quit to become a freelancer he actually wanted to be a freeloader! There are many other jobs he can do that would supplement his income. How about wedding photography, or childrens portraits, high school grad pictures etc etc, does he think that is beneath him he can still plan around his freelance jobs and let me tell you my girlfriend does cutesy childrens pictures in old fashioned clothing and etc and makes a bundle working one or two days a week.
Life is too short and please don't wait until retirement to regret what you have lost.

FL,

You said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">the economic reality would be that we would have to sell the lake house </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So what is really more important to you?

I guess I am going to respond to your vent with a vent. You do realize in the normal scheme of things that men do what you do: work. They don't get the summers off to take the kids anywhere, they don't get much time with their kids, because they WORK. Someone has to.

You are angry because your H likes the lifestyle you provide and it allows him to do what he wants. Guess what, that is one of the criterion that is often used by women in selecting their H's. I know it does not feel very good, but that is the reality of life. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I came here for precisely the reasons you are venting. It seemed everyone was happier when I traveled alot and just brought the pay check home. There were and are no thanks you's. The kids don't appreciate what it costs you do they? Your H doesn't even thank you does he?

You are just supposed to work and support the family and allow everyone else to be happy. That is sort of a common theme if you are a male, less common if you are a female.

So part of me wants to say to you: "get with it you signed on for it." Another part of me understands your feelings far far better than you can imagine. Being a male I had a huge advantage over you.

My father gave me what I call "the speech". He said: "Son when you leave school you will work for the rest of your life. Your choice of brides will depend on you working. Your children's happiness and future (meaning college) will depend on you working. Your marriage will depend on you working. So prepare yourself to do something you like and see if you can end up there." FL, I got that speech when I was 13 years old and just entering HS. I got that speeck at regular intervals until I left home at 18.

You know what??? He was right. I took his advice and am lucky enough to do what I truely enjoy, but the financial pressure is grinding and it never lets up. The sad thing is it is often NOT acknowledged or even appreciated that you/I/anyone does this, it is expected. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> And yes the cost can be high.

So what is my advice to a vent for which you really don't want advice? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> My advice is to decide if that lake house is really that important. My advice is to see if you and your H can figure out a way to make this happen.

But, my last piece of advice is to point out that most people have JOB's, not careers. Or as a friend of mine once commented about a fellow looking for a job with his company. "He is not looking for a job. He is looking for a position." It is not fun, but somebody has to do it. And in your family that someone is you.

So do I have you confused yet? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> You cannot figure out if I am on your side or I am limbering up the old 2x4 can you? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Well, the answer is neither. I understand your feelings completely, much better than you realize, but I also know that YOU and YOU alone control what will be with regard to YOUR job.

Your family can exist on a teachers salary, but the live style must change. That is something you and yes your H must discuss. You are not his servant or your children's servant, but it is hard to let go of that brass ring isn't it?

Hope you feel better tomorrow.

God Bless,

JL

fl...sorry for jumping in on your thread. forgive me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">AD, now you sound like your husband!!! easy to tell me, not easy for me to do!!! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Touche' FL!

I apologize for not being more specific. I've been trying to keep my posts shorter, as my little one is getting more and more mobile. While I was on the comp today w/ my back to him, he got into my handbag. I turned around to see him chewing on my sunglasses and licking a lip gloss wand! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I also know there are many wise people who post to you that can give you more constructive, in depth advice.

I didn't say POJA was easy, but it is something you're going to have to initiate if you're serious about a career change. I don't think your H is going to initiate it on this subject any time soon, is he?

Read up on the concept and process of POJA. Make a plan. Then approach your H as you would with any other important matter.

JL~ I asked my H once, "When did you first begin feeling the pressures of having to financially support the kids and me?". LOL--He said at approx 12 y/o, long before he ever knew me! His dad and your dad must've been cut from the same cloth, as he had similar talks with my H. Your post was very timely. My H is away on business. He just called from the hotel sounding exhausted. I told him how much I appreciate him and all he does for us. That I realize how hard he works, (read works his "a" off)...So anyway, thanks for the reminder, JL! Sometimes I forget how simple it is to make his day. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ June 02, 2004, 08:04 PM: Message edited by: autumnday ]</small>

so much of me just wants to say I QUIT. but that certainly is not a good trait to allow myself to act on. i wanted to come hear, tell all you guys it's over, i don't care, i quit. but that certainly is not a good msg of the rest of you to have to read, those of you 100% committed to doing whatever it takes. maybe i'm just not.

seems as though perhaps i have lost my empathy for him again. i'm just feeling a lot of anger.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">for the majority of my relationship to this person he has been critical of me and of my family and of my friends and even of my job (even though this job has provided us with so much) and he has been unloving, uncaring and just plain not part of my life. the opposite of love IS indifferent and that is how he was for so long.

so please tell me, why am i supposed to be thinking a close relationship to this person is at all possible?????

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">no one really addressed this part of my original post, just my rantings of how much i hate this job. but ya know what, the job is not really the problem. hating my life is the real problem. not only am i a failure as a wife but i have become a shadow of the excellent mom i once was. no matter what else, i used to be an excellent mom, now i am just upset all the time and i snap at them. my daughter and i have a close enough bond she is managing to see past it, but she should not have to and it is still not good for her. my son is too young (was too young when all this began). i am totally failing him.

how long am i supposed to keep us all in this situation? more and more i have to wonder if the kids would be BETTER with us splitting. they need/deserve a happy environment to grow up in.

i feel like i am reaching the end of my rope. pretty short rope, it's not quite 11 weeks since d-day. not very impressive. but it is reality. i am just not that strong of a person. not all of us are capable of being that strong.

well, this post sure turned out to be a downer. i will not be around a computer now until closer to 4pm. i will try to get some spunk back before i post again.

FL-
you have been such a help to me-
I want to do the same for you.
I had no clue your life was in
such turmoil! I dont blame you
for venting! Your H should be
working when you are at home?
would this ease your emotional
& financial burdens? Stay on
board & keep venting! Whatever
helps!

FL,

NOW we are getting down to it. Thank God! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

You don't know it, but you have finally started to face your life and what you want. Did you read what Autumnday wrote me about her H. She had forgotten how easy it was to make her H's day. Just say "thank you".

When I read your last post, all I could see in your words is that you would like SOMEONE to say "thank you" for your efforts. I don't think that is an unreasonable request, in fact, you NEED the appreciation.

So let's see did you have an A because the OM simply said: "thank you" when you did something? I am betting you did. At the risk of playing amateur shrink, I think your H's belittling had a lot to do with his insecurity and guilt for NOT being what you ARE, the bread winner.

I also think he needs to see your last post, not the whole thread, but just the last post. In my mind it explains a lot, primarily it explains what you NEED and that is acknowledgement of your efforts and simply a "thank you" every now and the.

Your oldest just graduated 8th grade, what you do not understand is that your IQ is about to take a dive. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Mark Twain noted that he was astonished at how much his Dad learned in 3 years (from the time Twain was 18-21 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ). You will need your H's support in dealing with your children in the teenage years. You will need your H's enthusiastic support for your job.

Seek this support, let him know what you are thinking. Let him know what you really need and it is HIM supporting you with even a simple "thank you."

Think about this FL, you have now reached a level of understanding that will be invaluable to you.

I would bet a lot of money that AutumnDay's husband had a spring in his step for the next few days from her simple "thank you, you are appreciated." That is after all ALL any of us really want from our spouses.

Hang in there FL, you really are learning.

God Bless,

JL

FL,
I think JL is really on to somthing about your situation and I still believe the solution is for you to feel less pressure. Do you ever thank your H for his efforts to provide income to the family? I'll bet you do, but does he in turn thank you? You seem to indicate he does not. If you continue to enable him to not live up to his responsibilities as the main bread winner, your resentment will grow. Even if he appreciates your job more, it will still grow b/c you have a need that is not being met.

If you do manage to change careers, you will probably not get any more affirmation from him. To me going to school would add pressure to you, but it could be a big positive to get the family to help you get this goal acheived. I really think every economic situation can change. It does not happen over night. Your current job brings you affirmation. You indicate that they really need you. I think that's good for your self esteem, but really you need your H to be the main supplier of your self esteem. I learned this the hard way.

My mother had to go back to work after retirement while my father who is fully capable sits at home and golfs 3 times a week. He never says thankyou and is always thinking of ways to spend the money. She complains all the time about working and threatens to quit every time I talk to her. But she does not follow through. Do you know why? Its because they NEED her! She hates the job, but she feels needed by the employer. So she stays. The job gives her purpose and affirmation that she does not get at home. By the way, she had an A. She really does not have to work now. The other thing is that is gets her out of the house AWAY from her H. Is this what you want?

No one is perfect and we all have flaws. The only way to come together on this is for you to choose a path. Please consider the idea that you can change your circumstance. It just won't happen overnight. It will take time to transition, but it will be worth it. I think one error many of us make is to not plan ahead. Your H is acheiving his goals, now its your turn. Commit to your M FIRST and ask God to show you the way to go. He will be faithful beyond your expectations. Your D is going to be in college in 4 years. If you think you're stuck now, wait until those tuition bills come in. You'll be stuck for another 8 years.

There is only one way to go and that is to continue to try to rebuild your M and at the same time start to open discussions on what you need and want from your H. I know he is still recovering, but so are you. You are both in pain and both want to be past the pain. You can reconnect and right now it is on your shoulders, but I beleive in time he will soften and rally to you. You can heal the past pain by taking positive steps in the future. Less than 3 months in this process is not a great place to be, but its better than before. Trust me, it is very true about the roller coaster ride, there are tremendous highs and lows and all you can do at times is hold on.

Christ's Love,
Roman

been lurking most of the evening (i've been at work tonight, got to spend the first day of summer with kids that way, which was VERY NICE!). but there were so many other posts i wanted to respond to, although i can't recall which ones now, i at least remembered john_g and hiny.

i don't really know what to say here in my topic, i think i really need a bit of a break from thinking about all this so much.

but i wanted to thank those that took the time to respond.

JL, i'm not sure exactly what i am finally getting to... the fact that i hate my life and that i think the marriage is impacting me so negatively that i am no longer even a good mom??? i don't think we are on the same page here at all...

i have IC tommorow, maybe something good will happen there.

ok, i'll bite, but just a little, my lab time is over and i should be getting home....

yes, i liked the way the OM thanked me and i went out of my way to do non-sexual things for him, like watch his place/pets while he was out of town, like go with him to pick out a hampster and everything he needed to go along with it, like helping him with a work project he got behind on, the last one... i remember him emailing me later saying... "that was the nicest thing anyone has ever done for me" boy did that make me feel good.

no i have not shared any of that with my H.