ok ladies....I'm asking for some strong words of advice from some of the women that I have kept up with here on MB that have inspired me with their spunk, sassisness and confidence that they exude, that even shines through in type-written form! I know that IC is an issue that I need to seriously think about and I've tried that. The one that I went to was more concerned about when I was going to get her some Insurance information than about what I was saying. I was actually "in session" with her, spilling my guts, and she pauses and says "Did you get that phone number for your insurance for me"? That was the last time that I went to her.

ok..here goes...I'll try to not make this too long and drawn out. I have never exactly been what you would say a confident and secure woman. Many issues have carried over from childhood and my A brought everything hidden to light. I guess there were many things that I just kind of pushed below the surface. The OM's treatment of me since OM, I do still work with him, has devastated me. This man was a predator of the worst type. I think I'll do this in a questionnaire form to make it easier to read.

1. Why do I need OM's attention (plationic form) to get closure.

2. I should hate him and have more self respect than to even care what he thinks about me.

3. I have humiliated myself by writing letters trying to salvage some normalcy between us since we work together. He ignores everything I say and that cuts me deep.

4. I know that I'm going to get some 2x4's for that last one and I know that I deserve them.

5. How do I move beyond finding in myself what I seem to still need from him. I don't want a EA/PA with him, I just want to be treated like I wasn't some whore that he has no use for now.

6. I have had some people tell me on here that I've got to achieve this "wholeness" within myself without needing validation from anyone else. How do I get there?????

7. Yesterday and today have been major set backs with the crying uncontrollably again. I want to gain control over my life and need solid advice, and suggestions. Maybe someone can recommend a good book as a start.

8. The things that I have done post A and during the A haunt me and I need to let it go and forgive myself for these pathetic weaknesses. I hate myself for begging for some kind of show of love from OM several times since A ended a year ago.

9. You see I know the issues that are there that an IC would point out but I need to know out to move beyond this point and to truly learn to "like" myself just for who I am, faults and all and to not feel like I have to be perfect and loved by others in order to feel good about myself. Most of all to accept once and for all that OM never cared anything about me and for that to be ok, his loss!!! I so want to have that kind of attitude and really mean it.

10. I know that all these points are not all questions but some are just thoughts are popping into my head. I plead for some good sound advice here. I want to get out of this hole that I'm in and start truly living. I don't think that I ever have been at that point. My kids are now 18 and 23 and that has been my life since I was 19. I need to truly "get a life" outside of what has been required up till now.


Thank you all so much for your help and encouragement over the last several months since I have been coming here. I know that they're are many out there who will read this who have been where I am and I'm counting on your advice.

God Bless!

1. Why do I need OM's attention (plationic form) to get closure.

Let me preface that in my opinion... "closure" is a crock. This is the opinion I have formed after listening to hundreds of OW, OM, WW, WH, BW, BH .... all who might seek "closure" over and over .... and it never seems quite ~enough~. Always just out of reach. The never-ending search.

You "close" when you decide you are willing to stop and change directions.

Closure is simply a decision.

If you seek it any other way ... you've given away your power over your own life.

What do you think so far?

Pep

Lisa,

I could type here for hours on the subject of getting out of an affair and emotionally detaching from the affair partner.

I am also a reformed smoker, I tried to quit 5 times before I finally did--and every so often I still crave a cigarette, but that's another story. I am also a recovering alcoholic; that, too, is a lifetime thing.

First, I urge you to find a counselor you like. Things will come up in life 'out of order' that need to be dealt with. If you could go once a week that would be great.

What can you do to feel loved and cherished? Are you a person of faith? If so, study and learn about God's love. If you are feeling guilty and low because of the affair, study and learn about God's forgiveness (Ps. 51), and King David in general.

What you can do right now is find ways to value yourself. Contribute at work, at home, or in a club or activity in a way that satisfies you and elicits appreciation and admiration from others. Extend yourself--take risks--celebrate yourself. This will bring a variety of positive results that will spill into every area of your life.

Read everything you can about codependency. Melodie Beattie is a prolific author on this subject. I would also suggest you read _Passionate_Marriage_ by David Schnarch. It contains a lot of good information about the self in intimate relationships that might help you. Maybe that's a book for later, but the important thing is for you to take charge, now, and do things for yourself because you're worth it.

You can leave these bad feelings behind. Believe that.

Notice also that what I have written here are all things that YOU can do. From that you should deduce that what OM thinks is of zero importance. That is a truth that you need to internalize. He has nothing to offer you, and holds no importance for your future. None. Regardless of what happened in the past.

Meanwhile, simply avoid the OM at all costs. Find ways to never see him. Out of sight, out of mind. This is possible--I did it, so I know.

Pep...I don't know what I need. I suppose I think that OM can still give it with his treatment of me now. I'm just so tired of feeling so lost. I'm sorry for being so weak and screwed up. I know that I'm looking in all the wrong places to make this hurt and emptiness go away.

thanks everlong for your reply. I used to be such a committed Christian. I find myself totally backing away from church now as well as family, ie parents and siblings and in-laws. I can't seem to find my way back to God. I come close and then I back off. I don't know if it's because I feel unworthy or if these confused feelings for OM still exists and I feel hypocritical. I do know this one thing, there is a battle going on inside unlike any thing that I've ever had to face before and I don't feel like I can win.

My H and s will be home shortly so I must get off for now. I will be back to read when I can have some privacy. I sincerely appreciate the effort put forth by people here to continue having patience with me. This forum has been like a life line to me many times. God Bless!

2. I should hate him and have more self respect than to even care what he thinks about me.

"Should I hate him?"

Well, what good would that do?

What is YOUR benifit when you decide to hate him?

Would hating him make you feel better about yourself?

I would say, offhand, this is an immature solution to your problem. You pick an emotional outlet to solve your moral crisis.... and perhaps that is a part of how you got involved in an affair in the first place???

You CAN choose your attitude.... but I have found I can NOT maintain "hate" very long emotionally ... it's too demanding of my psyche. It takes a LOT of energy to hate. And, I have better ways I choose to spend my limited emotional currency.

"Have more self respect" ... well, I guarantee this... you never build your self esteem by hating anyone. You build your self respect by doing things that comand respect. By doing things that make you proud of yourself.

And, you cannot get self respect from anyone else but you .... and many young people make this error. Seeking outside validation for a not fully formed sense of self.

You seek self respect? Make yourself proud by doing things YOU admire.

"Care what he thinks about me".... this matters ONLY if "he" is someone worthy of your admiration. If he is an admirable person ... a stand-up guy ...then seeking approval makes sense.

If he is not an admirable man ... then what benifit comes from being concerned about his opinion?

Pep

Lisa,

This is a golden opportunity for you to grow in faith and really be saved. You say you used to be such a committed Christian--my guess is that you were going through the motions then.

But what about now? You are in an ideal state to discover spiritually what has eluded before. First, you recognize that you are weak and beaten and you need spiritual guidance and renewal. That is all you need. Focus on being lost and empty and weak and screwed up. Forget about being unworthy and hypocritical--that has to do with other people and we don't care about that. We need to deal with YOU and God.

If I were you I would get myself a McArthur study Bible (available at www.gty.org) for starters. Also look at the other books that specifically address life crises. Read in the Bible daily.

Find yourself a counselor that is right for you. Then, later, find yourself a church that is right for you. At some point you need to be around people who believe what you do and will support you unconditionally (because this is what pleases God).

There is just no excuse for inaction here. I believe Pep is right about closure, too: it is a myth. Closure is when YOU say "enough". Even if your OM was a decent person who COULD say something perfect for the situation, it would not feel like enough, or the true end, or the right thing. Trust me on this.

Pep, you have mail. Apologies that it was so late, I have not checked that account for so long but if you are going to use it, I will check it oftener!! :-)

3. I have humiliated myself by writing letters trying to salvage some normalcy between us since we work together. He ignores everything I say and that cuts me deep.

4. I know that I'm going to get some 2x4's for that last one and I know that I deserve them.

Volunteering for humiliation....hmmmmm

What is your payoff? You get to feel victimized .

You are comfortable being the victim.

You feel insulted by WH's disinterest... it makes you feel lousy ... and this give you permission to feel sorry for yourself.

Your comfort level is INcreased by your victim status ... I believe ... because you then don't have to take responsibility for your own well-being.

No 2x4

Pep

Lisa,

This is very much in keeping with what Pep said....If you keep looking for closure externally...you ain't never gonna find it chere!

Here's an awful truth, the one at the depth of your pain....one you won't want to hear. I won't make it a statement, but a question to ponder. What if he does think of you as just a pathetic whore that he has no use for now? Can you live with that? Can you do anything about it??? That is something you may not have control over. None of us have control over the thoughts of others and must find our self worth from within ourselves.

You know chere....I don't give a rat's patootie about what anyone thinks of me....and somehow, I think that makes them like me even better...go figure!!!!

5. How do I move beyond finding in myself what I seem to still need from him. I don't want a EA/PA with him, I just want to be treated like I wasn't some whore that he has no use for now.

What if this ~ is~ the reality of his current state of mind?

If he thinks of you as a "whore" ... then he's a bit of a scum himself, and so what? Who cares what he thinks!

If he doesn't think you are a "whore" but would like you to leave him alone because he is ~ashhamed~ of the relationship he had with you ... I say, YES!

Leave the man alone.

he is not interested ... and

it
does
not
matter
why...

he
is
DONE

Pep

Originally posted by star*fish:

You know chere....I don't give a rat's patootie about what anyone thinks of me....and somehow, I think that makes them like me even better...go figure!!!!

Me too!

and maybe this is one of the secrets to our sass!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Pep

6. I have had some people tell me on here that I've got to achieve this "wholeness" within myself without needing validation from anyone else. How do I get there?????

I think Everlong said it best.

This is a spiritual journey.

You take steps everyday toward owning your integrity.

You USE your faith when you feel weak.

Discovering who YOU are when no one else is around.

That's how.

Pep

I agree heartedly with closure being an myth and illusive butterfly....

Sometime relationships end because they didn't work out...period...

that is the nature of human nature...
and as always....affair relationships are injected with a false aura of having greater meaning and depth...based on the logistics and risks

affair partners think and even say to one another...this relationship...this "love" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> this sex <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> is sooo much more greater and meaningful than all others ....
because we all risk so much to have it...

yet the foundation is based on falseness, secrecy, and shadows....so the REAL goodness of a honest relationship..the REAL building blocks aren't even present....

perhaps if you two had the same relationship as two free and single people...it would have ended...with no dire need for "closure" but because it wouldn't have worked....

you'll never really know ...
but people can and do end things like that all the time....

Maybe someone can recommend a good book as a start.
Waiting to exhale...


you need to start a gratitude journal ..in which you EVERY day....journal in it things that you are grateful for...
you need to quit being so inward turned and selfish...and see that God has created a whole universe of wonder and magic...and that you are so focused on your empty search to validate yourself through others....
and that God calls to us to be joyful and happy...
we are so blessed in this country...
and we make things harder..
like this continual need for something from him..

you should not seek to hate him
you should not seek to villify him
you should seek to release him totally to his world ...and begin to live in yours....

ark

Hmmmmm - am I the only male who has responded to this so far?

This doesn't mean I'm "confident."

There's a thin line between confidence and stupidty. Just look at my XW's OM/husband!!!

But it is interesting reading this. It sorta displays the typical male/female hard wiring difference. Bear with me, ladies...... This is NOT sexist - it's a celebration of our differences.

When a problem is presented, women, gotta love 'em, frequently only want to disect the feelings and meaning of the problem. They want to discuss it. They want other women (and men, for that matter) to validate that the problem is real and has an affect on them. In other words, they want their feelings about the problem to be labeled as genuine and justified.

Then there's guys. Problem? Here's the answer. Blah, blah, blah.

So Lisa, this was a long winded intro to my answer: Every passing moment is an opportunity for a complete turn around. (quote from "Vanilla Sky")

WAT

Trying to get closure for me just opened more and more doors for communication....

one thing leads to another....
one conversation leads to one more..
one word leads to another

The only closure I ever got was when I finally just quit and walked away...

The passing of time and the passing of the pain brings more closure than anything.

Thanks for the input. A lot of words of wisdom spoken on this thread already. The comment about being turning inward and holding on the the "victim" attitude rings so true and that's hard to admit. I know that everyone has their past issues and help define who they are now. Mine was growing up in a family with a mother who suffered with severe depression. We suffered emotional abuse because of this. While my friends were having fun planning their dates and what have you, I was always worried about my mother and what kind of mood she was going to be in that day.

Obviously this wasn't a very nuturing home in which to grow up in. Please don't think that I'm trying to stir up pity here by sharing this, I'm just trying to understand myself and I have to reflect to understand what makes me tick and what makes me seek outside myself for love and even when it isn't real I hold on to that "special" feeling that I felt at the time of the A. I have always been a people pleaser, this includes church work in order to try and gain people's approval thus validating my worth. This has been a vicious cycle all my life. I remember as a little girl trying to do things to make my mother happy such as cleaning the house, etc, etc. I was too young to understand that I wasn't what was wrong and their was nothing that I could do to make it better.

That little girl is still there I guess wanting to feel special. I have a thousand reasons to feel special but yet I'm hung up on this one person's rejection of me. I don't understand that. And Pep you're right, it's a very immature attitude to be trying to hate this person. For one, I am not capable of it. I have this very tender heart that seems to be a curse to me right now but I know is a blessing from God. I'll cry just seeing someone stranded on the roadside!! I guess I just want to get to a point where I can be indifferent to him and not feel so bad about myself based on what I think he thinks.

Yes, your Sass is very much the not caring about what others think. That is confidence!! My H has always gotten on my case because of how I worry about what others think of me. The office where I work, everybody knows about the A and that bothers me tremendously. There is a man there who pretended to be a caring friend after A ended who came on to me. I have worked with him for 17 years and truly thought that he was a friend. We don't talk now at all. I guess the combination of all of that has be down and very self-centered right now which is truly not who I am at all.

Hi Lisa, I don't know if I classify as sassy or confident but I'm your cyber friend and just wanted to drop in and say hi.

Jenny

Lisa, just "lurking here" thought I would pop in and say HI. Sorry to hear you are still having trouble with OM. You really need to get out of that office. I think the daily reminder of the [censored], is keeping this in the fore front of your mind. NC for me started in December of last year and now as I wrote a month or so ago in "Time is the answer for withdrawal", the OW is so far removed from my thoughts. I know you are in the investment business and let me tell you business is booming, amazing how much more productive I am with a clear mind. I'm sure you would have no problem finding another firm to work for. Just do it! Get far away from him and clarity will soon follow. For me the affair was 7 1/2 years took 6 months of N/C almost to the day to break the spell. Hmmm. maybe Harley is on to something... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> My two cents anyway. Take Care, Chris