I am new here and would like to show my husband the TOW site so he can see for himself. How do I get there. The OW will not leave us alone after being told numberous times to not call or email. She uses different names when she calls his work so the will forward the phone calls to him, but I'd like him to see for himself how they think.

thanks!

I just took a peek over at the TOW site.

You know I was starting to sometimes feel some understanding for the OW pov...

But I just read a message from an OW who has been stalking the MM after he's told her it's over, demanding yet another good-bye supposedly for closure's sake. She's gloating because the MM has agreed to see her one more time and she's talking about how special it's going to be for her and how much she's going to enjoy it - GAG. Most of the responses are of the you-go-girl type. So much for the pretended concern for the wife...

I don't think I will be posting here for a while.
I just can't stomach it right now.

I have reason to believe that my WH has been lying to me (that he broke up with OW for good and hasn't talked to her in 2 months). It's only a few months left until the divorce now and I guess he just isn't going to catch on in time. Maybe the best revenge will be to just let the OW have him. As soon as he marries her he will no doubt fill the OW position with somebody new and THEN she REALLY will care what the BW feels like.

WH probably only wants to keep me in his life for wrong reasons anyway:

somebody to lash out at so OW won't ever see his ugly anger problem

trying to ease his guilt

somebody to blame everything on

I'll let OW do all that for him if she wants him so bad.

I want and deserve a MAN of integrity who keeps his promises.

I want a man who will defend me, his wife, not the sort of women who sleep with married men.

<small>[ June 04, 2004, 10:44 PM: Message edited by: meremortal ]</small>

Meremortal - have you completely "outed" the OW in public - where she lives? printed out her posts? Her beliefs? Her evil? - sent copies to her family? Her friends? her minister?

Inga - play your "game" if you must. You'll find out the stats on affair relationships are real the hard way. I wish you the BEST reality wake up call God can give you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

MM, I went over there too.

All I can say, "Inga", is that if you are the Inga posting over there you have got it SOOOOO wrong about the people here.

MB is not a "Christian" website. A lot of people who post here are of all different faiths and beliefs.

If it's all about married men, how come so many of us here are women who have had affairs (PAST TENSE).

Oh, what's the point, I still feel sick from reading TOW.

Jenny

You know, my post about this thread being laughable was just a cover up for what's really going on in my own mind, my own heart. Yes, my H has come home, yes, we're trying to work on our M, but I have never had the opportunity to tell OW what I think of her & what she's done to our family. Yes, I know H is partially at fault for everything that's happened, but she is as well & she cannot play the Ms. Innocent role anymore, i.e., she treated him badly, HE came on to ME, whatever pathetic excuse she wants to use this time. So, that's a reason for the other post because if I let all my feelings out, it probably would come out bashing you, Inga without knowing you because I still harbor ill feelings toward my H's OW. So I'm going to try to explain MY side (the side of a W who was HEARTBROKEN over H's A):

Inga, I am trying not to judge you, but you like to think that you're situation is sooooo different than anyone else's. That he indeed is truly unhappy, that his W treats him like crap, that he DESERVES someone better. Let me ask you this -- then why all the lies? If he was truly unhappy, that his W was so mean to him, then why did he have to go around lying? Why not come straight out w/telling her it's over, filing for a D, and move on w/his life? If he's so wonderful, why not wait for him to get a D & THEN be together? Why lie & sneak and be so daggone deceitful? And what makes you so SURE that you're the only OW he has? Because he TELLS you or because you actually KNOW? Because if he's playing you both, then he very well could be playing someone else too.

You said:
For the record, I am sorry for the role that I played in hurting the W. I am usually the person who is always thinking of others. So, don't think that I am not thinking of W and how she is and how I'm affecting her and her pain.
Then STOP hurting her. If you're really thinking about HER pain, then you would end things IMMEDIATELY. What does this show? This shows remorse on your part for what you have done to her & her M. Let's say their M is very rocky, and I'm sure it is as most M's are when an A ensues, this does not GIVE YOU THE RIGHT to add more pain to injury by having a "R" w/her H.

You also said:
If that's the case, why does it have to be that the two that had the A should not be together?
Do you HONESTLY believe this to be TRUE? You really, honestly think that he will be faithful to YOU? What happened when his M problems got to be too much to handle? He got involved w/OW BEFORE he told his W he wanted out. What happens when your M problems (& there will be some-it's human nature) start to accrue? You mean to tell me you think that you two will live in marital bliss for the rest of your lives? Get down to reality instead of that foggy place you're in, Inga. If he does this NOW, then more than likely, when real life problems affect him in YOUR M, he will do it again. Is this a man you are so "proud" to have as a mate? Think about this, seriously.

Before, I never thought I would be in a situation like this
Well, guess what? You are. I don't think anyone DECIDES that you want to end a M or start an adulterous R, but when you find yourself involved in one, it's time to get out - FAST! YOU have to make a decision that you are going to do the right thing here. Every action has a consequence & if you choose to stay in this R, it will not only cost you your dignity, but it will also be hurting everyone else around you. So many people are being affected by this R that how can you NOT say to yourself, This is WRONG! I shouldn't be doing this to someone else! This has nothing to do w/whether their M will work out or not, it's about being a DECENT person!

A R BASED on a lie & deception will only die. Can't you see that? I don't believe that "once a cheater, always a cheater" in every circumstance. I do believe that some people learn from their mistakes & don't repeat them in their next R, but that is only AFTER they've had time to reflect on why their M disintegrated, humbly asking for forgiveness to the person they betrayed, and trying to rebuild their life BEFORE they decide to pursue another R.

Anyway, I know my dander got roared & I'm sorry for lashing some of my anger out on you w/o knowing you, but from your original post, it seems as if you're trying to defend your actions w/o giving anyone the whole story first to see your side. You come in here, trying to defend an adulterous R knowing perfectly well that most of these people are trying to rebuild their M's after an A & some are still waiting for their M to start recovery. What did you expect? Applause? For someone to automatically go, Oh, she really cares for this man, this is "true" love, so go ahead & destroy this man's W, she deserved it. This is the way your message comes across to mostly everyone here. Not all, but a lot of people.

I hope you really think about what you're doing & who you're hurting here. This isn't all about you & him, there are other people out there affected by your decision to still be together. And I hope you will NEVER settle for being someone's mistress. Every person deserves to be #1 in their mate's heart & right now, you're definitely not #1. You're playing the role of a 2nd hand leftover. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but it is so very true.

I do hope you decide to what is right by telling this man to either try to work things out w/his W or leave her completely to sort things out of why his M went sour. He will need to find these answers before he decides to start another R w/yet someone else.

Best regards,
Y

deleted

<small>[ June 06, 2004, 04:12 PM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

Another FWW here (and BS too), and my marriage did not survive, so you may take my advice with a grain of salt if you wish.

I won't judge you. I've been where you are. For me, there was to be no winner, and I knew it even in the midst of the affair. I can honestly say that I felt excitement and disgust with myself (and with the OM) even while it was happening. I wanted it, and I must be honest about that. But at the same time, I hated him and I hated myself. I thought it was love, but really it was just newness, excitement and a rush of feelings at having someone other than my H pay attention to me. And I gave up everything for that rush. Pretty sad reality to face.

As for your wondering if you can have a relationship after his marriage is over. Yes, you could, and many have. Whether those relationships last is something else again, but some do. Most do not. Statistics prove it.

I remember during my affair making plans with the OM. I remember talking about buying a house, how visitation would work with our children, what we would do on our time off together. It was all pipe dreams, spoken from a place of fantasy. While many here talk about the fog, I see it more like an adult Disneyland where everything looks pretty and real, but it's only inside the fence. Outside in the real world, it's a different story. You can buy a ticket and get into the park every day for the rest of your life, but at what cost?

Eventually you grow up and the rides don't hold the same appeal that they once did. Or maybe, like me, you just can't stomach them anymore.

I hope you find what you're looking for, but I suspect that you won't find it here. I will wish you well, and most of all, ask that you reconsider what you're doing. It isn't good for anyone, most of all yourself.

Just turns my stomach.

I went to TOW, and had to quickly excuse myself to the bathroom, because I was ready to "toss the cookies."

Inga, do not go on that site and talk about how "unchristian like" the people on MB have reacted to this NAUSEATING post.

Without any "mean" comments toward you, let me just share the truth. The word was, the word is, and the word always shall be.

And I seem to remember TWO big things that are covered pretty clearly in the word, The Bible.

THOU SHALL NOT TELL A LIE
THOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY

In case you need a reference point, these are covered in the ten commandments. You know, those laws handed down directly by God to Moses...kinda serve as the some of the most important cornerstones of Christianity.

Christ took this a bit further and said, not only are you committing adultery if you have a sexual relationship with a married person, but you are committing adultery if you LOOK at another woman's husband and think about how badly you'd like to jump in the sack with him. Christ even suggested cutting off the offending part of the body that might be causing you to sin, rather than be caught in the turmoil of such disobedience. I do not know if I think you should go home and start sawing on your body parts, but I think the next best thing is to CUT YOURSELF OFF from this relationship with a married man.

I think you took Christ's command to love your neighbor as you love yourself in the wrong way.

You are supposed to love you neighbor, just not LOVE your neighbor.

<small>[ June 06, 2004, 04:18 PM: Message edited by: Archuletan ]</small>

I agree SerendipiT. I happened to check out that site. I cannot even believe someone created such a place. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> I happened to read a poll in which someone asked whether they would "do it again" (have the affair). Most said, "Yes." My mouth just hung open with almost everything I read there, and I really noticed how there was a HUGE amount of cussing... F-word this and F-word that. There were threads on "Do you know any erotic websites" and "He left her! Hooray!" with everyone giving their congrats. There was a poll on "would you do it again" (the affair) with most of them answering "yes." It is a very, very sad commentary on our world/society that there are actually places where "other women" can come together to chat.

As a Christian, I am CONVINCED that when someone commits adultery, it messes with their mind to an extent that there is a certain mental "illness." Not the type diagnosed by a physician, but truly, they are not mentally "healthy" or thinking like a "sane" person. I'm not saying they are insane or psycho... but an affair is such a grievous, heinous thing and it hardens the heart and deceives the mind to such an extent that what is right seems wrong and what is wrong seems right and people deceive their own selves and cannot see straight. ("fog")

There is always forgiveness for anyone who has repented and is truly sorrowful. There is healing and restoration and we should give it to those who seek it. I don't condemn WS's. BUT there is also something to be said about the WS who is boastful of it, who has no shame over it, and who justifies it... or asks for erotic websites in order to "spice up" her adulterous sex life. There is nothing less than evilness in that. And that's what I saw on that site... evilness in some of the people who were literally smug and shameless over their adulterous liasons.

That's not judging or condemning. That is speaking the truth in love (which the Bible tells us to do). Love isn't turning a blind eye and saying, "Oh those poor people having affairs, I wish them well and hope it all works." No, love includes being appalled and disgusted over sin (it's called "righteous anger"). If EVERYONE were appalled and disgusted over sin, there would be no adultery! The problem is, there are too many people who aren't disgusted by it and who justify and okay it. And you don't have to be a Christian to be disgusted and appalled by adultery! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Prov. 6:32-33 "A man who commits adultery lacks judgement, whoever does so destroys himself. Blows and disgrace are his lot, and his shame will never be wiped away."

Prov. 2:16-18 "It [wisdom] will save you from the adulteress, from the wayward wife with her seductive words, who has left the partner of her youth and ignored the covenant she made before God. For her house leads down to death and her paths to the spirits of the dead."

Prov. 6:27 "Can a man scoop fire into his lap without his clothes being burned? Can a man walk on hot coals without his feet being scorched? So is he who sleeps with another man's wife, no one who touches her will go unpunished."

<small>[ June 06, 2004, 04:10 AM: Message edited by: LoveMyEx ]</small>

Inga,

In your intitial post, you said, "I know it was not appropriate BUT it happened" and "I feel guilty BUT I can't change it."

You said that he doesn't want to end it "either" (alluding to you not wanting to end it "either").

You also said, "We are both good people who have done this one thing that was inappropriate and poorly timed.

You also ask questions about your future together which makes it seem fairly obvious that you do not wish for this affair to end. If you did, I don't think you'd be asking about the future.

You asked, "Why can't it be a relationship that moving forward only builds each other up and is otherwise a positive and constructive relationship?

First of all, it can't "move forward" considering he is MARRIED! Secondly, it can't be "positive" considering it has to be secretive and shrouded with lies and deceit. Your dearly beloved has a WIFE... a WIFE! I don't know, but does that mean nothing?

You mentioned how you did this "one" thing. ONE thing!? An affair goes far beyond being "this one" thing. It encompasses MANY things (and NONE Of them good or positive)... lying, decption, destroying hearts, breaking trust, betrayal.

From your post, it honestly and truly sounds like you don't view it as "that" bad. It was just "one" thing and you are "good" people and "it happened" and you "can't change it." It wasn't a horrible, destructive, heinous thing... it was just "inappropriate." Me wearing a flowery dress to a funeral might be "inappropriate." Or telling a stranger that they should go on a diet is "inappropriate." But sleeping with another woman's husband is FAR beyond merely being "inappropriate."

I truly hope that you will be able to soon see it for what it really is...

If you do someday have the "life together" that you desire, it will be one that will have blossomed out of deceit, lies, and betrayal. That's not a good start, and perhaps that's why "everyone" tells him you shouldn't have a life together. Well, that, and the fact that he has a WIFE.

You are not broken over this. You are not grieved over what you and he have done. You aren't sickened by your actions or brought to your knees in disgrace and shame. You don't have to suffer, or be "punished" for the rest of your life, but until you can see this for what it is and until it breaks your heart and becomes repulsive to you, you will only be living in denial and asking "why."

Inga,

You want to know what I find more disturbing than you posting here about this topic???

The fact that you may be here to hurt a specific BS~~~~with this post! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> and I would bet if your M/M knew this??? He would not be pleased! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

If you want to show your presence at least here have the guts to speak up and say who you really are here!!!!

Atruheart

<small>[ June 06, 2004, 04:24 PM: Message edited by: Archuletan ]</small>

<small>[ June 06, 2004, 04:34 PM: Message edited by: weaver ]</small>

Inga... there are many on this thread who have posted to you out of their own anger and hurt. You may well be feeling attacked, defensive, and generally disgusted by the responses you've gotten.

I understand why you would feel that way. It's terribly difficult to feel attacked and threatened.

I would ask that you consider the extreme pain that these posts show. Oh, I know, it's coming across as anger and attacks -- disrespectful judgments. There's no excuse for those and I would ask those who are posting to please end the ranting.

But for you, Inga -- just for you. Please consider the pain that you've awoken in the people here, in people you've never even met.

Whether the people here know you or not, there is a woman, somehwere, who is living the pain you see here. Sure, she could be better at expressing her pain in healthy ways. Couldn't we all? But I would ask you this. To what lengths will you go to end another's suffering? Can you stand by and watch the suffering here, the suffering in your MM's soul, the suffering in your MM's wife's soul?

You may choose, of course, to counterattack. I would understand that response. It's hard not to under such an onslaught. But.....

Might it not be better to consider the pain that the situation itself creates? Not to judge it, but just consider it. Not to get angry, nor to decide whose fault it is. Just to observe the pain of the situation, to stand in the midst of it and look in all directions and know that no matter what direction you go in right now, there is pain for someone. Probably everyone.

Is this the legacy that you want for yourself? Do you want to be a party to the creation of agony?

I don't. It took me a long time to understand that, and how to change it in my life. I'm still a long way from the consistent application of the principle.... but each of us in the affair triangle, no matter what position we're in, has the option of not being a party to agony, has the option to stop our own suffering, and to stop inflicting it on others.

It's not easy. It's not quick. It will probably hurt for a while after you decide. But it's something worth considering.

have to agree with atruheart and weaver Inga, I think you should not be surprised by the responses here especially if you are Gina - very low - the purpose is to save a marriage, not cause further harm to one

As for your question will it work out - statistics say no = only 5% of relationships that begin as an affair will make it.

If you are meremortal's H's OW I would say your chances are a big 0% - he is playing you -

<small>[ June 06, 2004, 03:42 PM: Message edited by: sl000 ]</small>

MB Forums terms of service, which all posters agreed to at the point where they registered:

You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this BB to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law.

I am on the verge of locking this thread. I have moved a copy to Moderator's Forum, where no one will have the ability to change their statements.

You can however, edit on this thread. And, many of you should do so to follow TOS.

I think of the OM that my wife had the A. with and have mixed emotions. He was my friend. So, I feel betrayed and lied to by him. I feel betrayed and lied to by my wife. Reading the notes and emails that they had together makes me want to see him burn in hell. Yes, that's strong.... but so is the love, and commitment I have to my wife. On the day that this A. started the very fires of Hell were allowed into my home and my heart. It's effected every part of mine and my families lives.

So, if you are the OW, drop to your knees now and beg God to forgive you for being the destroyer of a marriage and a family, a holy union. You are being used as a tool of the devil whether you believe it or not. End this relationship now and to heck with your pain of withdrawal from this man.... you have no right to complain about your pain. Turn your life around and find your own man and quit stealing what is not yours!

Pray for God's mercy!

Just J (and Inga),

I am not a BS. Nor have I ever been a WS. To say that what you are doing is wrong or hurtful, etc. is not something that only a BS would say out of their "own anger and hurt" as JustJ said. There are many, many people in this world who would acknowledge the same thing and they are not BS's or WS's. It does not take a brainiac <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> to know that adultery is a very serious, destructive thing. Both those who are hurting and have been through it and those who are not hurting and haven't been through it can see it.

I think though that this is less about people "attacking" you and more about them "reacting" to you. If you say you are having an affair, you WILL receive a reaction... by both those who've suffered affairs and those who haven't. The thing is, the reaction here is negative, and thus, it appears to be an "attack" or judgement. If people were to say, "Oh Inga, you are so wonderful for helping this man get out of his marriage," that would also be a reaction but one that would be positive. But yet it is still just as "judgemental" as some perceive the negative posts to be. The "judgement" is that you are wonderful. Right?

I don't quite understand Just J's dismissal of people's feelings. Just as Just J says there is "no excuse" for these reactions, I could say that there is "no excuse" for this affair. And just as he asks posters to "please end the ranting," I would ask Inga to "please end the affair."

Inga, I'm not sure if you will be back here or not or what your intent is in being here. I sense in your post that you want to be with your lover... that you don't view the affair as a terrible thing (which I explained this all in an above post). Perhaps you do? It is difficult to always express oneself clearly via the net, but I did read in your words that you want to be with him. So I am somewhat confused as to whether you are here to receive help to end the affair or if for another reason.

If I shot a man and I were to post on that man's family's website, shouldn't I only expect to receive a very hostile "welcome?" Of course, how I came to the website might make a difference. If I came with sorrow, seeking forgiveness, wanting help to change my hatred towards a person, I might receive compassion and understanding. But, that is still alot to ask from a family who I had destroyed.

I hope you can see the analogy I am making. I am not a fanatical MB poster nor loyal to this or any site and like I said, I'm not a BS or WS, but I do understand that people are reacting as they are to you because you have metaphorically "shot" a family member (the wife) and you are seemingly not expressing sorrow or seeking forgiveness but rather asking why can't you be with the surviving member (the husband) and live in happiness? It is like rubbing salt in their wounds.

I hope that Just J will also be able to see this.

The monster is not the affair... the monster is the wracking emotional pain the affair causes. They are inextricably linked -- and all who come in contact with an affair are touched by it.

What we do with the pain is the question.

Do we attack the OW? Yes, that is one answer. Does that lead to the best solution -- an end to the affair? Mmm, possibly. But not always.

Do we have compassion for them? It is another answer. Is that the same thing as saying, "Oh, poor you, here let me comfort you?" No. Compassion is that which allows us to see ourselves in the other's shoes. (I hear the cries of NEVER, NOT ME! already...) The difficult biological fact of the matter is that we are all susceptible to affairs.

So in compassion, what does one do? Acknowledge the act, and ask for it to end. "Go and sin no more" is one way to put it.

That message is a whole lot easier to hear when it's spoken with compassion than when it's spoken out of anger or a desire to attack.

It's still the same message.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by CHARL0TTE:
<strong> Another FWW here (and BS too), and my marriage did not survive, so you may take my advice with a grain of salt if you wish.

I won't judge you. I've been where you are. For me, there was to be no winner, and I knew it even in the midst of the affair. I can honestly say that I felt excitement and disgust with myself (and with the OM) even while it was happening. I wanted it, and I must be honest about that. But at the same time, I hated him and I hated myself. I thought it was love, but really it was just newness, excitement and a rush of feelings at having someone other than my H pay attention to me. And I gave up everything for that rush. Pretty sad reality to face.


As for your wondering if you can have a relationship after his marriage is over. Yes, you could, and many have. Whether those relationships last is something else again, but some do. Most do not. Statistics prove it.

I remember during my affair making plans with the OM. I remember talking about buying a house, how visitation would work with our children, what we would do on our time off together. It was all pipe dreams, spoken from a place of fantasy. While many here talk about the fog, I see it more like an adult Disneyland where everything looks pretty and real, but it's only inside the fence. Outside in the real world, it's a different story. You can buy a ticket and get into the park every day for the rest of your life, but at what cost?

Eventually you grow up and the rides don't hold the same appeal that they once did. Or maybe, like me, you just can't stomach them anymore.

I hope you find what you're looking for, but I suspect that you won't find it here. I will wish you well, and most of all, ask that you reconsider what you're doing. It isn't good for anyone, most of all yourself. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Please reread this Inga, I think Charlotte has been fairly honest about things as she has been on both side of the fence.. you know I thought about having a revenge affair....so much that I tried to get myself completely focus on my marriage "no room for mistake at this point" I'd just be another idiot. I think I want to inflict the same pain, but I would also be another idiot...

It's lala land.......................Don't let yourself go inside of it too much m'dear.

Yes, I agree with Just J, many post (myself included) our strong emotions based on our own situations. Some presume they know you...lumping all OW's in one big person...rightfully or unjustified. We are all very different, and our situations are different, but there are similarities that cross all our R.

One major similarity, WS often lie to their S and their A partners. Yes, he is probably lying to you. Your R started and has been proceeding based on a shaky foundation with foolish intentions.

You deserve better Inga. You deserve to be a man's one and only, not having to share a man's devotion between you and an ex. Why are you selling yourself short? That is something I have felt bad about, the OP that get caught into accepting the crumbs of a R. You deserve so much more...someone you can have an honest R with, someone you don't have to sneak around to see, don't have to worry about being seen in public, etc...

You deserve SOOoooo much more!!!